Poll of the Day > Why did they have to dub foreign films such as kung fu movies back in the day

(+) Yeah! (+)

The dubs were horrible and made the movies worse

Too bad they didnt use subs with the original language

dubs are always the worse option compared to watching something in its original language

Because muricans too lazy to read.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Too bad they didnt use subs with the original language

Americans don't watch those.

Unless they're weebs. Or pretentious art snobs.

You make way more money dubbing foreign films. Or refilming them entirely with proper Western actors speaking God's own language - American.

the Rashomon dub is somehow awesome and terrible simultaneously.
It's basically a radio play with video too.

I think Ponch said it best in an episode of CHiPs where his deaf girlfriend takes him to a foreign film.

"When I watch the subtitles, I don't see the movie. If I watch the movie, I don't know what it's about!"

It takes practice to read subtitles and actually see the movie.

SinisterSlay posted...

It takes practice to read subtitles and actually see the movie.

As someone who grew up in a country where subs are the norm for anything from foreign origin aimed at anyone over 8 or so, that idea hits so strangely.

I really cannot say I can actively remember what it was like to not be be able to read subtitles or read in general...

It's not hard to dub "hyeeeah" into "hyeeeeeh"

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

As someone who grew up in a country where subs are the norm for anything from foreign origin aimed at anyone over 8 or so, that idea hits so strangely.

I really cannot say I can actively remember what it was like to not be be able to read subtitles or read in general...

I couldn't do it until I started regularly watching anime.
And it's hard but eventually all the bits link into your brain.
The strength, emotion, purpose of what a character says you learn to hear without understanding what they say.
Your understanding comes from the text. So after awhile you are skimming the text and watching the show, with your brain filling in the rest so it feels normal.

If I want to read I'll read a book

Muscles posted...

If I want to read I'll read a book

Ah but that's totally different.

In a book, every time a character speaks or thinks, there has to be a tag, he says, she says.
In a book, expressions have to be describe "He furrowed his brow, considering his next words before speaking"

All of this goes away with movies/tv. You get the tags by hearing voices, you get their expressions by seeing them, and you know what they say by the text. A book has to put all senses into words. Subtitles are converting half of your hearing into words. A small portion of the whole experience.

Watching a subtitled movie is like attending a play in a foreign languageyou might not understand every word, but the actors expressions, tone, and movement tell you the story. Reading a book is like being handed the script and asked to imagine the entire performance yourself.

captpackrat posted...

I think Ponch said it best in an episode of CHiPs where his deaf girlfriend takes him to a foreign film.

"When I watch the subtitles, I don't see the movie. If I watch the movie, I don't know what it's about!"

That was always my mother's argument for why she hated any film with subtitles (and refused to watch them, even if it was something she otherwise would have liked).

I never had that problem, but part of that is probably because I speed-read. I can read the subtitles so quickly it doesn't really pull my attention away from the visuals.

Regardless, I still prefer dubs over subs. The only reason the "subs are better!" argument started in the first place is because old foreign films, anime, and video games tended to have horrible dubs (mainly because they were done on almost zero budget). But a good dub is easily better than a good sub.

I remember when Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon came out, and they were showing the subtitles version in some theaters and the dubbed version in others. Just anecdotally, people seemed way more willing to go to the dubbed version than the subtitled version.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

That was always my mother's argument for why she hated any film with subtitles (and refused to watch them, even if it was something she otherwise would have liked).

I never had that problem, but part of that is probably because I speed-read. I can read the subtitles so quickly it doesn't really pull my attention away from the visuals.

Regardless, I still prefer dubs over subs. The only reason the "subs are better!" argument started in the first place is because old foreign films, anime, and video games tended to have horrible dubs (mainly because they were done on almost zero budget). But a good dub is easily better than a good sub.

I remember when Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon came out, and they were showing the subtitles version in some theaters and the dubbed version in others. Just anecdotally, people seemed way more willing to go to the dubbed version than the subtitled version.

its fun when they are dubbed and subbed and the dub isn't saying what the sub is saying.

I have OG Dragon Ball that does that, and jesus the subs are way dirtier lol

SinisterSlay posted...

its fun when they are dubbed and subbed and the dub isn't saying what the sub is saying.

I have OG Dragon Ball that does that, and jesus the subs are way dirtier lol

Yeah, I've watched anime before with the subtitles over the dub.

There's also Excel Saga, where they basically have a subtitle track that isn't actually translating what people are saying, but which is explaining all of the cultural references, because that show is entirely built around Japanese memes that people outside of Japan probably don't understand unless they're ultraweebs.

It's rather funny that in the Disney release of Pom Poko on DVD, the dubbed version is censored ("raccoon pouches"), while the subbed version isn't (yeah, they're balls).

SinisterSlay posted...

Ah but that's totally different.

In a book, every time a character speaks or thinks, there has to be a tag, he says, she says.
In a book, expressions have to be describe "He furrowed his brow, considering his next words before speaking"

All of this goes away with movies/tv. You get the tags by hearing voices, you get their expressions by seeing them, and you know what they say by the text. A book has to put all senses into words. Subtitles are converting half of your hearing into words. A small portion of the whole experience.

Watching a subtitled movie is like attending a play in a foreign languageyou might not understand every word, but the actors expressions, tone, and movement tell you the story. Reading a book is like being handed the script and asked to imagine the entire performance yourself.

I see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't down play books like that. Books can do so much more than movies.

Muscles posted...

I see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't down play books like that. Books can do so much more than movies.

Movies can do so much more than books tbh. They are just different forms of media

I suppose it is a skill one has to develop but I've never had any issues with it. I pretty much exclusively watch films with subtitles on these days particularly because it's become common in the last fifteen years or so to have the dialogue in movies be absurdly quiet or layered under deafening music (looking at you Christopher Nolan).

At least in one's native language it's not really imperative to read every subtitle word for word. It's usually just a guide in case you miss any given word. It's also helpful in sci-fi and fantasy where they throw a lot of made up proper nouns at you. The only reason I was ever able to follow game of thrones and remember everyone's name before reading the books is because I was reading it spelled out as well as hearing it in the show.

At first it was because it was cheap and easy to do, and meant people didn't have to read subtitles. But eventually it became part of the expected experience. The hilariously low quality was part of the reason people liked it. Thats why it seemed to get even lower quality over time.

Muscles posted...

If I want to read I'll read a book

Movies shouldn't have subtitles because if I want to read, I'll read a book.

Movies shouldn't have soundtracks, because if I want to listen to music, I'll play a CD.

Movies shouldn't have visuals, because if I want to see pictures, I'll go to an art gallery.

Yeah, that doesn't really work at all. There's no need to compartmentalize sensory input like that.

worked well for Bruce lee and Jackie chan films

adjl posted...

Movies shouldn't have subtitles because if I want to read, I'll read a book.

Movies shouldn't have soundtracks, because if I want to listen to music, I'll play a CD.

Movies shouldn't have visuals, because if I want to see pictures, I'll go to an art gallery.

Yeah, that doesn't really work at all. There's no need to compartmentalize sensory input like that.

Except for the fact the the rest add to the movie while subtitles distract from it

I know 6 languages so the only time I really look at subtitles is to compare whether I would personally translate those words that way.

Granted the only times I would need subtitles to understand what's going on is when I watch Bollywood + Korean media.

Muscles posted...

Except for the fact the the rest add to the movie while subtitles distract from it

Being able to understand the dialogue distracts from the movie?

Son_Goku_X posted...

I know 6 languages so the only time I really look at subtitles is to compare whether I would personally translate those words that way.

Granted the only times I would need subtitles to understand what's going on is when I watch Bollywood + Korean media.

I'm envious

adjl posted...

Being able to understand the dialogue distracts from the movie?

Don't be obtuse, you know I mean having text over the actual movie breaks the immersion

Muscles posted...

Don't be obtuse, you know I mean having text over the actual movie breaks the immersion

Arguably, but I'd rather have the immersion bent a little than not be able to understand what characters are saying (and dubbing often does just as much to break the immersion). It also really doesn't break the immersion, unless you have to put genuine effort into reading them.

For that matter, how does having somebody provide a translation of what they're saying break the immersion more than having magical music come out of nowhere?

Subtitles are all over social media now, including youtube videos. Watching videos with subtitles is the default these days, even when theres no foreign language involved

That too. I have subs on for everything I watch, regardless of language. They mostly act as a band-aid for poor sound balancing, but it's nice to have them there for that purpose.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4e3d6fd6.jpg

And someone said the dubs were basically treated a a joke and not taken seriously, and I agree. The original audio actually has feeling.