How are the Apollo Justice games?

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Current Events » How are the Apollo Justice games?
Jabodie
11/28/2024
08:29 PM
#1
Back when I was a kid, AA4 pissed me off with what they did to Phoenix so I never gave it a proper chance. Now that the righteous anger has subsided, I'm thinking of picking up the AJ collection.
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ReturnOfDevsman
11/28/2024
08:32 PM
#2
Jabodie posted...
Back when I was a kid, AA4 pissed me off work what they did to Phoenix so I never gave it a proper chance.
They actually turn that around in an unexpected and satisfying way.

They don't really explain his habit of zoning out in the middle of a conversation but other than that.
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Jabodie
11/28/2024
08:45 PM
#3
ReturnOfDevsman posted...
They actually turn that around in an unexpected and satisfying way.

They don't really explain his habit of zoning out in the middle of a conversation but other than that.
Within game or in the following games? I did finish AA4.
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ReturnOfDevsman
11/28/2024
08:55 PM
#4
Jabodie posted...
Within game or in the following games? I did finish AA4.
In AA4.

You're free to disagree. I thought you didn't finish it.
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Jabodie
11/28/2024
08:58 PM
#5
ReturnOfDevsman posted...
In AA4.

You're free to disagree. I thought you didn't finish it.
Well, I was close minded about the plot line because I was so upset at the premise. But I was more upset hehas spent relatively little time as a lawyer.
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Lazy_Haar
11/28/2024
09:05 PM
#6
I thought 5 was a decent return to form and really liked 6. Apollo Justice really soured me on the series for a while, too, and it didn't help that it released during a rough part of my life, so that made seeing what they did to Phoenix that much worse (though I guess I should also give AAI some credit, because that game bored me to tears).
GiftedACIII
11/28/2024
10:02 PM
#7
Way better than 4 (AJ) although how it matches up to the original trilogy is iffy. I personally think 6 (spirits of justice) is up there with 3 though. AJ is the worst game in the series imo.
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Kim_Seong-a
11/28/2024
10:41 PM
#8
Jabodie posted...
Well, I was close minded about the plot line because I was so upset at the premise. But I was more upset hehas spent relatively little time as a lawyer.

Yeah. I could've stomached his fall from grace better if it wasn't canon that he pretty much only did the cases we played in the original trilogy
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zinformant
11/28/2024
10:47 PM
#9
If the Mason System didn't do it for you, Wright gets plenty of valuable, legacy-feeling screen time in Dual Destinies and Spirit of (Apollo) Justice. He shares the spotlight with two other leads henceforth, but they find creative ways to address that problem where he generally is not the one losing out. Many did not play Spirit of Justice since it dropped digitally only internationally late in the console's lifespan, but it features arguably the best plot twist in the series (not necessarily cases) and is worth playing on those merits alone. It respectfully builds on predecessory games including the first three entries.
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GiftedACIII
11/28/2024
10:47 PM
#10
Kim_Seong-a posted...
Yeah. I could've stomached his fall from grace better if it wasn't canon that he pretty much only did the cases we played in the original trilogy

There can definitely be some cases not shown in the games. There are several month long breaks between games. Some cases in an individual game have months long breaks in between them too. They even injected a new case, 1-5, in between the original AA1 and JFA. The anime adaptation had cases exclusive to the anime. The manga (which are all brand new cases) has about a dozen new cases too. It's more that Phoenix's law career would only be 3 and a half years but there can still be several cases not seen in the game within those 3.5 years (note that 2 of the cases in T&T are flashback cases before Phoenix's time)
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Jabodie
11/28/2024
11:36 PM
#11
What does Phoenix do after his law career is over? I forget.
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
02:59 AM
#12
Become a piano player in the bar that he uses Trucy to con people over Poker for competition.
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DodogamaRayBrst
11/29/2024
03:05 AM
#13
They're really bad, slop games that only really scratch the itch of more ace attorney, which is a very powerful itch for a lot of people. Apollo Justice at the very least cares, even if in a misguided and weird and bad way. AA5 and 6 are perfectly content just existing as entries in a forever franchise where nothing major changes and the main question asked during the writing process is "which character can we bring back in this case to tug on nostalgia and rely on existing gimmicks instead of making a new character?"

AA5 is the cloest of the three to being a good game and I don't mind replaying it that much, but it's also clearly a lesser product.
GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
03:08 AM
#14
DodogamaRayBrst posted...
They're really bad, slop games that only really scratch the itch of more ace attorney, which is a very powerful itch for a lot of people. Apollo Justice at the very least cares, even if in a misguided and weird and bad way. AA5 and 6 are perfectly content just existing as entries in a forever franchise where nothing major changes and the main question asked during the writing process is "which character can we bring back in this case to tug on nostalgia and rely on existing gimmicks instead of making a new character?"

AA5 is the cloest of the three to being a good game and I don't mind replaying it that much, but it's also clearly a lesser product.

This is completely out of touch with reality. AA4-6 changes more to the status quo than AA2-3 does. 4 just executed it very badly.
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Rai_Jin
11/29/2024
03:25 AM
#15
AA5 and 6 are way better than 4. Great Ace Attorney is also good, the first game is mostly building up to the second but both are good.

Jabodie
11/29/2024
09:41 AM
#16
I'll pick the collection up on switch
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teep_
11/29/2024
09:43 AM
#17
I recently finished TGAA 1 and it was really good fwiw
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Prismsblade
11/29/2024
10:05 AM
#18
Feels like all the games after were just damage control for how bad AJ screwed over the characters and lore. To the point that the series never really recovered sadly.

Played all the games after and spirit of justice was probably my least favorite. Apollos backstory was always pretty convoluted but that game cranked it up to eleven.
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Trelve
11/29/2024
10:10 AM
#19
Apollo Justice has a good first case but the rest of them (especially case 3 - if I hear that song one more time I'll lose it) are pretty bad.

Dual Destinies is a definite improvement, especially when it comes to the prosecutor, Blackquill who is probably the best thing about the game. Again case 3 is a bit of a stinker but the rest of the cases hold up remarkably well.

Spirit of Justice is one long slog of a game and honestly I hated pretty much everything about it. The best case in this game (case 4) is the one with the least amount of connection to the overall story, which says a lot when your filler case is the one that's doing the heavy lifting. I can't stand the prosecutor, I can't stand the leaps of logic when it comes to interpreting the dance of devotion. Every case DRAGS on for way too long. There was obviously no planning when it came to this trilogy as Apollo's characterization and backstory seem to change from game to game.
ReturnOfDevsman
11/29/2024
10:23 AM
#20
Trelve posted...
if I hear that song one more time I'll lose it
She's wearing a mic, she hears the gunshot from like 20 feet away, but the mic doesn't pick up the gunshot?
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Rai_Jin
11/29/2024
12:37 PM
#21
teep_ posted...
I recently finished TGAA 1 and it was really good fwiw

and the second is contender for best one.

GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
04:15 PM
#22
Prismsblade posted...


Played all the games after and spirit of justice was probably my least favorite. Apollos backstory was always pretty convoluted but that game cranked it up to eleven.

AJ had 0 backstory in his debut game which is why hes such a bland character.

Trelve posted...


Dual Destinies is a definite improvement, especially when it comes to the prosecutor, Blackquill who is probably the best thing about the game. Again case 3 is a bit of a stinker but the rest of the cases hold up remarkably well.

Spirit of Justice is one long slog of a game and honestly I hated pretty much everything about it. The best case in this game (case 4) is the one with the least amount of connection to the overall story, which says a lot when your filler case is the one that's doing the heavy lifting. I can't stand the prosecutor, I can't stand the leaps of logic when it comes to interpreting the dance of devotion. Every case DRAGS on for way too long. There was obviously no planning when it came to this trilogy as Apollo's characterization and backstory seem to change from game to game.

5-3 is one of the better cases in DD. Anyone who doesnt think 5-2 is gutter tier trash isnt trustworthy.

http://i.imgur.com/h9zRgBt.jpg

6-4 is also the worst case in SoJ besides the DLC. Honestly, your entire gripe there seems like a case of git gud at the difficulty. As cases themselves theyre some of the most unique and creative cases in the series.
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Prismsblade
11/29/2024
05:09 PM
#23
GiftedACIII posted...
AJ had 0 backstory in his debut game which is why hes such a bland character.
I actually didnt mind his character. And in terms of backstory he didnt need anything beyond a motivating factor tbh.

It was mostly the character assassination of wright and the entire series status quo of the original setting that rubbed me the wrong way.

That and giving Apollo absurd connections to the main cast even if they made absolutely no sense. Both for him and the connecting characters.
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ultimate_reaver
11/29/2024
05:21 PM
#24
Apollo Justice is underrated and overhated. I think a lot of people felt the same as you about the plot shift and it has some lingering bitchiness surrounding it, but imo it's got some fun stories in it. AA1 and 3 are superior but its better than 2 for sure.

Dual Destinies... I played it but never finished it. I dunno, I really wasn't feeling it by the time I hit the case in the space center. It's a really nice looking game, but everything outside of that just kind of felt off about it. Particularly Phoenix being there and pretty much just being his AA1-3 self again despite everything that happened previously.

Never played Spirit of Justice
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kage_53
11/29/2024
05:40 PM
#25
Duel Destinies and Spirit of Justice are trash. Phoenixs character is butchered from Apollo Justice. Athena also serves no purpose. Blackquill is kind of alright. Those 2 games are slogfests and the breakdowns suck. Apollo Justice gets a lot of unnecessary hate. Id rather play it than Justice for All an day of the week.
GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
05:48 PM
#26
Prismsblade posted...
I actually didnt mind his character. And in terms of backstory he didnt need anything beyond a motivating factor tbh.

It was mostly the character assassination of wright and the entire series status quo of the original setting that rubbed me the wrong way.

That and giving Apollo absurd connections to the main cast even if they made absolutely no sense. Both for him and the connecting characters.

Apollo was a nothing character in his own game and thats because it was actually a Phoenix game in disguise, a Phoenix that as you said is basically a completely different character. Even Phoenix Wright in the 1st game had more of a backstory than AJ did.

Giving Apollo more backstory in the next two games actually made him a character instead of just a generic audience stand-in.

ultimate_reaver posted...
Apollo Justice is underrated and overhated. I think a lot of people felt the same as you about the plot shift and it has some lingering bitchiness surrounding it, but imo it's got some fun stories in it. AA1 and 3 are superior but its better than 2 for sure.

4-2 is an inferior 2-2. 4-3 rivals AAI-3 as being the worst third case in the series, even more than 2-3, and 4-4, while a step above the previous two stinkers, is an underdeveloped mess for a final case, while 2-4 is up there with 3-5 as the best case in the series.
Only 4-1 stands out as a good case and I actually think even 4-1 has its issues that people overlook because of how much of a twist it is, tbe main issue being that Kristoph is convicted due to a possibility from his reaction to forged evidence when every other case including in AJ itself establishes you need conclusive direct evidence and not circumstantial evidence. Its the entire plot point of 4-4 in fact.
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
05:56 PM
#27
kage_53 posted...
Duel Destinies and Spirit of Justice are trash. Phoenixs character is butchered from Apollo Justice. Athena also serves no purpose. Blackquill is kind of alright. Those 2 games are slogfests and the breakdowns suck. Apollo Justice gets a lot of unnecessary hate. Id rather play it than Justice for All an day of the week.

The 3d games breakdown suck when AA4 literally only has a single unique breakdown with 4-3s culprit flinging around his hair (which is very lame and nonsensical) while the other breakdowns are either repeated or just a slightly enhanced damage animation?

There seems to be a correlation with people who dislike the 3D games and clinging on to AA4s interpretation of characters. Even though AA6 follows on from AA4s interpretation of Ema and fully develops her.

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akura_integra
11/29/2024
06:09 PM
#28
I remember the clown girl character from SoJ randomly blew up into a meme a while back. What ever was the cause of that? lol
_____Cait
11/29/2024
06:14 PM
#29
AJ is ok.

DD, I dont like it. The cases are all boring. I remember one about a college, and one about an aquarium (Dlc i think). And one about Athena? Speaking of Athena, she is the worst character in the series. Her whole personality is loud and she has this robot companion that nobody ever questions, even the judge. Her backstory is really stupid and they insist on keeping her in SoJ. Nothing important happens in DD except for Athena appearing and Phoenix suddenly practicing law again.

SoJ is much better. There is a central conflict throughout the whole game, with each case building up to the final one. Phoenix and Apollo both get enough screentime, and Apollo finally gets some important character development. They even mention the weird stuff they forgot about from AJ, like Apollo and Trucy and Phoenix being related? The ending hits hard, and Id say it is really close to TaT in feeling for the final case. Good ending. Athena is there but she doesnt take up a lot of screentime like DD.

I really dont know why Athena was needed when we have Trucy. Were they trying to set up a woman for an AA spinoff?
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BlueBoy675
11/29/2024
06:25 PM
#30
I feel like they really fumbled the bag with Apollos character. His backstory gets retconned in every single game

In AJ they have that stinger at the end thats hes actually the son of Lamioir and Trucys older brother, making him a member of the Gramarye family. Despite this being a big twist at the end of the game, its never brought up again

Then in DD his backstory revolves around this guy named Clay who was apparently Apollos best friend in the entire world despite never being mentioned before. I mean, I guess thats ok but it feels very undercooked.

Then in SoJ hes actually the son of some military warlord and the adoptive brother of Sad Monk. Like what the fuck? Where did this come from? What about the Gramaryes? I guess the writers forgot

I remember when I got to case 2 of SoJ I was really excited because I thought they were going to finally follow up on Apollo being a Gramarye. Then they just didnt. It was weird.

I feel like the writers really were just making it up as they went. And dont get me started on Athena. I dont dislike her per se, but I find her to be a really pointless addition to the cast when there are already plenty of characters who needed more development (ie Apollo). I also resent her for effectively sidelining Trucy

SoJ is the worst game in the mainline series imo
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_____Cait
11/29/2024
07:25 PM
#31
BlueBoy675 posted...
I feel like they really fumbled the bag with Apollos character. His backstory gets retconned in every single game

In AJ they have that stinger at the end thats hes actually the son of Lamioir and Trucys older brother, making him a member of the Gramarye family. Despite this being a big twist at the end of the game, its never brought up again

Then in DD his backstory revolves around this guy named Clay who was apparently Apollos best friend in the entire world despite never being mentioned before. I mean, I guess thats ok but it feels very undercooked.

Then in SoJ hes actually the son of some military warlord and the adoptive brother of Sad Monk. Like what the fuck? Where did this come from? What about the Gramaryes? I guess the writers forgot

I remember when I got to case 2 of SoJ I was really excited because I thought they were going to finally follow up on Apollo being a Gramarye. Then they just didnt. It was weird.

I feel like the writers really were just making it up as they went. And dont get me started on Athena. I dont dislike her per se, but I find her to be a really pointless addition to the cast when there are already plenty of characters who needed more development (ie Apollo). I also resent her for effectively sidelining Trucy

SoJ is the worst game in the mainline series imo

IIRC the dad in SoJ only adopted him and the monk guy, and it makes sense, since his parents died. They also do bring up the AJ stuff again at the end of SoJ, very briefly .
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
07:29 PM
#32
BlueBoy675 posted...
I feel like they really fumbled the bag with Apollos character. His backstory gets retconned in every single game

In AJ they have that stinger at the end thats hes actually the son of Lamioir and Trucys older brother, making him a member of the Gramarye family. Despite this being a big twist at the end of the game, its never brought up again

Then in DD his backstory revolves around this guy named Clay who was apparently Apollos best friend in the entire world despite never being mentioned before. I mean, I guess thats ok but it feels very undercooked.

Then in SoJ hes actually the son of some military warlord and the adoptive brother of Sad Monk. Like what the fuck? Where did this come from? What about the Gramaryes? I guess the writers forgot

I remember when I got to case 2 of SoJ I was really excited because I thought they were going to finally follow up on Apollo being a Gramarye. Then they just didnt. It was weird.

I feel like the writers really were just making it up as they went. And dont get me started on Athena. I dont dislike her per se, but I find her to be a really pointless addition to the cast when there are already plenty of characters who needed more development (ie Apollo). I also resent her for effectively sidelining Trucy

SoJ is the worst game in the mainline series imo

His backstory keeps getting retconned is because he basically had no backstory in AA4. They had to invent new things in the sequels because there was nothing there in the first place. Him being a gramerye is completely irrelevant. Even in AA4 it was only suddenly brought up out of nowhere at the literal very end of the game and its only relevance to him is handwaving an explanation for his powers.
And the Gramaryes werent handled very good in AA4 in the first place. 6-2 handled them better than the entirety of AA4 did and made them a lot more entertaining than they were in 4-3 and 4-4. 6-2 also did more with Trucy than the entirety of AA4.
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BlueBoy675
11/29/2024
07:47 PM
#33
Were just gonna have to agree to disagree
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#34
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
08:02 PM
#35
BlueBoy675 posted...
Were just gonna have to agree to disagree

Apollo literally having no backstory in 4 besides him being related to Trucy which isnt a backstory and more just info isnt something that can be disagreed.
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BlueBoy675
11/29/2024
08:03 PM
#36
GiftedACIII posted...
Apollo literally having no backstory in 4 besides him being related to Trucy which isnt a backstory and more just info isnt something that can be disagreed.
Ok
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
08:07 PM
#37
BlueBoy675 posted...
Ok

Glad you realize it.
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#38
Post #38 was unavailable or deleted.
BlueBoy675
11/29/2024
08:09 PM
#39
4-3 is a huge slog with how many times they make you watch that damn concert video
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ellis123
11/29/2024
08:10 PM
#40
GiftedACIII posted...
Apollo literally having no backstory in 4 besides him being related to Trucy which isnt a backstory and more just info isnt something that can be disagreed.
That's some real Phoenix Wright-level crap.
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
08:18 PM
#41
ellis123 posted...
That's some real Phoenix Wright-level crap.

The funny thing is that Phoenix still did get more backstory in the 1st game with the classroom trial being very relevant to his motivations and his ties with Edgeworth, which is the main arc of the game. AA2 does have no new backstory for him though. AA3 did invent an entirely new backstory that did slightly contradict some stuff in the 1st game but its way less over the top than 5 and 6 so I guess thats why its a lot more tolerated ( along with some nostalgia of course)
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PerseusRad
11/29/2024
08:25 PM
#42
I liked 5, 6 felt kinda iffy, even if it was overall decent. I know some people really don't care for 5, but it felt quite solid for me, and I similarly had issues with what they did to Phoenix in 4.
HeroFlyChao
11/29/2024
08:49 PM
#43
I love these topics because its always interesting to me how many differing opinions there are on the best and worst games in this series.

While I wouldnt call any Ace attorney a bad game since the quality bar is high enough that even the worst outings are still a decent enough time I didnt think the Apollo Justice trilogy is all that great. Theyre basically the Disney Star Wars trilogy of Ace Attorney. Dual Destinies is probably my favorite of the three (Blackquill is a really fun prosecutor rival, he carries a lot for me) but the writing definitely drops in quality with that one, and the emotions gimmick introduced with Athena is pretty weak. AJ is interesting and I actually like hobo Phoenix, but its cases arent all that interesting on their own - pretty tedious and it has a messy plot overall. Spirit of Justice is just bad. I might feel differently on a replay, but the seance mechanic is annoying, lots of characters I just plain dont like, and the focus on this other countrys court system is just a weird direction to go in. And it just doesnt feel like a satisfying ending for Apollo.

Great Ace Attorney 1 is better than any of the AJ trilogy to me, and even then, GAA1 is dreadfully slow and boring for ant least the first two or three cases and mostly serves to set up the sequel.

Now weirdly enough, replaying the Investigations duo - I really liked them much more than I remembered. Im not even an Edgeworth fan and I thought they were really fun romps that generally respect your time (outside of the last case of Investigations 1) and had some fun character moments and overarching mysteries.

TLDR Id rank them Original Trilogy = Investigations > GAA >>>>>>> AJ Trilogy.

Oh, and Layton vs Wright is underrated. Everyone craps on the ending asspull story, but the game is super fun to play throughout.
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dotsdfe
11/29/2024
08:53 PM
#44
I'm of the opinion that all three AJ trilogy games are good, but 4 & 5 in particular are pretty flawed, while 6 is high tier and severely underrated.

4 had some great ideas but sadly a lot of individually weak cases. I found its final case in particular to be a letdown for what it was.

5 just feels too anime for me. A lot of its writing feels straight out of a B-tier anime at times and it kinda pulls things down.

6 is a return to form and is strong, IMO, with cases 2, 3, and 5 all being excellent. 1 and 4 are both fun for what they are (though 4 in particular is extremely silly and rides hard on its really fun cast).

Overall, weaker entries in the AA series but still excellent games.
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#45
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Jabodie
11/29/2024
09:50 PM
#46
HeroFlyChao posted...
Oh, and Layton vs Wright is underrated. Everyone craps on the ending asspull story, but the game is super fun to play throughout.
My interest is limited because I did not really enjoy the first Professor Layton at all. Pure puzzle games are a bottom tier genre for me, unfortunately. I've grown to enjoy puzzles in games a bit more as I've gotten older, but as a youngster puzzles in games as simple as God of War would piss me off.

I do have the Investigations collection, and that may be my next set of AA games after the original trilogy is replayed (on 3-3 right now). I'll get AJ collection (somebody asked earlier, it does have DLC cases) and look into GAA games if I'm still feeling it.
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Jabodie
11/29/2024
09:54 PM
#47
HeroFlyChao posted...
I love these topics because its always interesting to me how many differing opinions there are on the best and worst games in this series.
Well, it certainly shows me it may be worth a shot. I don't take my fictional characters quite as seriously as I did when I was a teenager. I don't take it quite as personal when writers do things I don't like with my favorite fictional characters.
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GiftedACIII
11/29/2024
10:34 PM
#48
Id second PlvAA as something to check out at least. You dont need to play any PL games to understand it. I played it before playing any PL games and its a lot more AA than PL. Has some incredible character moments from Phoenix and Maya too. Way better than AJ, AAI1, and GAA1 imo.
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Trumble
11/29/2024
10:39 PM
#49
Jabodie posted...
Well, it certainly shows me it may be worth a shot. I don't take my fictional characters quite as seriously as I did when I was a teenager. I don't take it quite as personal when writers do things I don't like with my favorite fictional characters.
I mean, definitely give it a go. Dont judge the entire trilogy based on AA4.
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Jabodie
11/29/2024
10:41 PM
#50
GiftedACIII posted...
Id second PlvAA as something to check out at least. You dont need to play any PL games to understand it. I played it before playing any PL games and its a lot more AA than PL. Has some incredible character moments from Phoenix and Maya too. Way better than AJ, AAI1, and GAA1 imo.
Is it more AA than PL?
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Current Events » How are the Apollo Justice games?
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