Lurker > asdf8562

Cory898 posted...

And I literally wasnt talking about who I voted for.

I said now over several times now what I posted has literally nothing to do with who you voted for personally as it's beyond the point. "I voted for Kamala" is irrelevant, as it's not a defense to the type of people I spoke of which btw includes those who 'voted for Kamala.'

It does not matter who you or anyone voted for if their actions repeatedly influenced others to not vote for Democrat. Which was not a small inconsequential number of influencers as I laid out several types of people you are clearly intentionally dodging to no surprise.

You continuously attempting to disingenuously pivot the conversation to make it about who you personally voted for.... gotta say, I appreciate you making your intentions very clear to not take you seriously.

012yArthur0 posted...

You're the one wishing that they're magically swung the entire election

What's magical is telling one's self that multiple avenues of people influencing voters, including fellow voters.... to stay home, go 3rd party or vote Trump didn't sway the election..... when the election literally swayed to Trump. When we literally had multiple avenues of influencers like average voters, Cenk, Bernie, cosplaying left leaners all repeatedly holding Dems to a higher standard than Republicans.

We literally have people like Kyle, Bernie and Cenk peddling the GOP narrative that, "Dems abandoned the working class." With fellow voters happily regurgitating that narrative which does indeed affect turnout.
We have people like Mayer who complains about wokeness.
We have people like Krystal Ball who isnt a Republican, but loves to push both sides bad.
We have purist types who love to peddle Dems do nothing for Progressives... while ignoring the many things done for Progressives because it's never good enough.

All of these influencers, have an influence on voters too, including fellow voters who regurgitate those narratives. It's not just politicians, voters and influencers also contribute to the problem.

012yArthur0 posted...

Anything can be a big bucket if you have such wide net.

I rather believe that they didn't made people to not vote, but to explain why people will not vote. left wing cosplayers just said the writing on the wall.

It's a wide bucket because it is a wide bucket.

You wish to narrow the bucket because it's too inconvenient to acknowledge it wasn't a small number of people influencing others to help Trump win in the general election.

If the facts are Trump or Kamala, and you chose to actively influence others to not vote for Democrats, intentional or not.... that helped Trump.

012yArthur0 posted...

You can blame them, but it is just a small drop in the bucket that is the entirety of DNC.

It's not a small bucket.

The people I speak of includes anyone period, who influenced others to either: not vote; go 3rd; go Trump.

That includes types like Cenk and Ana who constantly skewed attacks towards Democrats.
Types like Mayer who skewed attacks about wokeness. Ana falls into this as well.
Types like Kyle who has a populist and purist ideologies to skew attacks at Democrats. Cenk actually falls into this wing as well. Where unless Democrats deliver everything, they are quick to act like it was nothing. They even push unintentionally GOP false narratives like, "Dems abandoned the working class."
Types like Bernie and Cenk with their myopic levels of optimism and virtue signalling which influences their base to be disgruntled the impossible didn't happen. Essentially virtue signalling red meat to their base but not proposing a realistic path forward.

Voters and several other types fall into the above camp. That's not even including left wing cosplayers.

No, it was not a small bucket influencing people to help Trump win. Whether they were intention or unintentional, they helped Trump.

012yArthur0 posted...

And you believe that Democrats don't have their own sway in the internet?

Quote anywhere in my post that I said or implied Dem politicians hold no accountability in their contribution. In fact I carefully worded my post that voters also hold accountability which means its not 100% on the voters. Doesn't change the voters are also accountable for their own actions regardless of whatever the Democrats do. Yet, you have people demanding those people be coddled.

The choice was Kamala or Trump. The people I have continuously spoke of made the active choice to influence others to help Trump win. The Democrat politicians not being wonderful doesn't change Trump is far worse, and those voters chose to assist the worse one to win. Nothing you are saying changes this beyond trying to dodge we had a binary choice.

Don't ask for sympathy about what Trump is doing, if you decided to influence others to stay home, go 3rd party or vote Trump. Intentional or not. Regardless who you personally claim to have voted for.

Cory898 posted...

Except in your cherry picking you skipped the part where I demonstrated my messaging las fall was clear on the subject that people should be voting for Kamala.

See my last post. Hell, just read the first sentence. I literally said it doesn't matter who you personally claim you voted for. You are beyond the point. Here are still desperately trying to make it about personally you.

Tom_Joad posted...

No, that's *ALL* it takes.

Word of mouth from someone who sounds, acts, and looks like you.

That's why there are people called "influencers".

And whether you like it or not, every time you post on social media, you are an influencer. Not a famous one with a huge following, but an influencer nonetheless.

Just like I am by writing this post. I'm influencing you...

...and anyone else who reads this post.

The above accurately boils down my point in less words.

It doesn't matter if someone preface doing those actions with "I voted for Kamala."

There was definitely not an inconsequential number of people influencing others to either: stay home; go 3rd party; vote Trump (through acting like Dems are the same or worse... See Ana and Cenk types.)

012yArthur0 posted...

I seriously doubt that all it took for someone to not vote for DNC was some harsh words on the internet

The fact that you think Im saying it's only a forum on the internet that swayed people's votes says a lot. It shows exactly why Republican messaging is so powerful even against the left.

Hint, it's all platforms of messaging pushing Republican false narratives. That includes those happily defending those who don't vote, defending the movement, or pushing GOP false narratives that paints both sides as the same.

012yArthur0 posted...

Yes, the voters will learn that elections have consequences

We have seen the voters don't actually learn elections have consequences. Repeatedly. 2016 and 2024 being the most recent with actual people thinking they hold no accountability for getting Trump elected in the general election.

The fact that it has to explained constantly why Trump is able to do what he is doing now is proof enough. The fact that to this day those same people are confused how Roe v Wade got overturned is proof enough.

No, those voters don't actually understand elections have consequences, and this is a 2 party election. Regardless if both candidates don't check every box.

Cory898 posted...

I dont think I mentioned how I voted before you started talking about even if you suppposesly claim to have voted for Kamala

The fact that your continuous takeaway is who you or anyone personally voted for, says it all. Go back and actually thoroughly read what I said. It doesn't matter who you supposedly did or did not vote. It's beyond the point to ones actions convincing/defending others to not vote, and I have given plenty of example to that as well. What you are doing in this post is a key example to why I said you are spinning excuses to dodge any accountability.

Assuming one leans left. How one votes in a general election is null and void if their messaging efforts consists of Republican false narratives which aims to reduce others from voting Dem. Which no matter how uncomfortable it is to acknowledge, objectively helped Trump. Regardless if it was intentional, regardless who they personally voted for.

This is hardly a challenge with a 2mil price tag.

012yArthur0 posted...

I'm pretty damn sure that going into the ballet to vote means much more to the election than wasting bytes on Twitter or Reddit.

Going to ballot to cast one vote mean little if as I already explained you spread the great word messaging just enough to convince others not to vote Dem.

+1 Kamala for -1 or more due to your messaging (purist, false narratives, all or nothing messages, treating a Dem flaw to be the same as Republican flaws as a whole) is counterproductive.

In otherwords, it's a net negative, not a positive. Simply voting for Kamala doesn't change things if you go out convince someone to stay home, go 3rd party or vote Trump. Adding the caveat at the end "I voted for Kamala" seems to be used as a magical spell card to repel any and all efforts regurgitating Republican false narratives.

012yArthur0 posted...

DNC doesn't have the luxury of playing the "they will come back eventually" after getting crushed in the polls like that.

I don't think the losing side has the option to pick and choose its own electorate.

They do have a luxury. The non voters are not reliable voters, at all. Not even a lil, so we can rule them out as a solid base worth the salt going for. The rest need a serious reality check how elections work in our 2 party system. Both sides are not the same, and yet many happily assist Republicans in their efforts to act like they are the same.

We also learned the luxury of coddling these people does not work. These people are severally ignorant how elections work and that elections have consequences.

So ya, they do have the luxury of giving these people a harsh reality check that yes, your actions to choose to aid Republicans does actually have consequences. Elections have consequences, and yes you the voters also contributed to Trump winning. Yes you the voter who promoted/defended others to 'go 3rd party/stay home/vote trump'... something you chose to do helped Trump.

Your choices in a gener election to help Trump intentionally or unintentionally has consequences. Just like in 2016 this lesson has still not been learned either.

012yArthur0 posted...

The fact that one has to be compelled to a knee-jerk reaction here says even more.

It's a knee jerk reaction for the same knee jerk defense being used in the first place.

Saying you voted for Kamala means absolutely nothing if you are actively assisting Republicans with false narratives and purist logic during general elections.

012yArthur0 posted...

By all means then, then don't be surprised of the "same thing both sides" will just end up growing as result. Resentment is a really powerful tool in politics, and keep throwing "its your fault" to those who lost hope will certainly be a good building block for it.

I have said this in past topics, I'm not interested in coddling these people another 4 years.

If these people didn't grasp their own egos andor ignorance resulted in Trump getting Roe v Wade overturned or even the stuff happening as we speak with Project 2025, they are a loss cause.

I'm not here to coddle them or lie their choices to unintentionally or intentionally muddy the waters directly helps Donald Trump get elected.

So when you say "by all means" the same applies to the people crying about the Dems to do something, yet on general election time..... spends months campaigning on false narratives that "both sides the same" or "all or nothing" logic. Such collectively helps just enough to elect MAGA.

Don't cry for sympathy Trump is doing xyz if you actively assist in his victory.

Powerful tool? You want to know what also is a powerful tool? Republican propaganda that 3rd party voting, not voting, or even voting for Republicans are intelligent options if Democrats can't deliver everything or have any bad traits whatsoever. Or the continued propaganda that Democrats should be held to a much higher standard when the other option is literally MAGA.

012yArthur0 posted...

The fact that Cory898 (or any other, for that matter) has to bother explaining that they voted for Harris

The fact that anyone has to bother explaining, "I voted for Kamala" is not a defense to the overall point says more.

Voting for Kamala doesn't mean one didn't still aid Republicans by encouraging, defending or contributing to a cause that whether one wants to acknowledge it or not, helped Trump.

So ya, if you find the discussion exhausting, it will continue to be just that. For similar egos that want to defend those who intentionally or unintentionally aid Republicans running defense for behavior in general elections that helps Republicans.

reincarnator07 posted...

As I said earlier is absolutely is a double standard, but the people who understand that aren't the ones you needed to convince.

My post isnt about people who voted for Kamala, and didn't spend months aiding Republicans with purist messaging andor "both sides almost the same" messaging.

Those people are the only ones who understood the dangers of Trump.

The people who did not understand were not an inconsequential number, and those people are not just only the people who stayed home. It's the people that also defended and advocated with excuses to stay home, vote 3rd party or even vote Trump instead as well. As such actions have collectively helped Trump.

Cory898 posted...

Im not part of the f***ing uncommitted movement

What I said wasn't uncalled for, and your posts in this topic speak otherwise. Hence why I said regardless if you claim to have voted for Kamala or not.

My post concerns anyone regardless who spent efforts defending and mitigating accountability away from people who made efforts to deter votes away from Democrats which objectively helped Trump win. Then clutch their pearls about the autrocities of Trump looking to Democrats to miraculously fix this. These people are not blameless in getting Trump elected, nor are they inconsequential.

This inconsequential number argument is a classic defense to the uncommitted/3rd party movement. Logic that tends to be akin to, "my vote doesn't matter anyway." This logic is mathematically incorrect due to the collective efforts of this camp pushing that logic. Worse in swing states. While intentionally or unintentionally spreading rhetoric to convince more and more people to either: stay home; vote 3rd party; vote Trump (given the rhetoric tends to paint Dems as the same or worse.)

The excuses you are giving to intentionally ignore the collective efforts of such rhetoric contributes as well to helping Donald Trump is the exact spin I'm speaking of.

The claim that "not all that many voters were swayed into staying home" is at this point an intentional spin that dodges the overall movement isn't just simply "those who stayed home." Yet you continue to hit home with this like it's a solid point.

Cory898 posted...

All I ever said was I dont believe they amounted to a number that could have flipped those states. I could be wrong but it would have to include a great number of people who didnt even vote Biden in 2020. But you two just want to keep on misrepresenting everything I say. Laundry list of excuses? I made one point (that you refuse to counter) so at worst I made one excuse. I never implied those who sat out arent as bad as you say I just said I believe they were the few. I believe most did their duty and voted for Kamala and those who didnt continue to be a very vocal minority. And they shouldnt complain because they got what they pushed for.

I didn't misrepresent anything. I'm repeating your words that tries to pretend the number was inconsequential. We have swing states that we're very close, and their actions go beyond whether they actually voted or not.

No amount of spinning from you to avoid accountability changes that movement helped Trump (even if you ever so claim to have voted for Kamala). If someone spent time muddying the waters, intentional or not, it affects just enough voters to 'stay home/go 3rd party/vote Trump.' No matter how you spin this, it helped Trump.

You have a laundry list of excuses and reasons to dodge the above is not some inconsequential number, and we were presented with a binary choice. Down to even playing dumb at this point that continuously messaging on displeasure to one specific party contributed to enough people staying home, going 3rd party, or voting Trump. Claiming to vote for Kamala doesn't wash away deliberate efforts grading Democrats on a scale that tries to make them the same or almost the same, or reasons defending not voting. All during the general election at that.

They are not a "vocal minority" as social media and media in general alone was all about coverage that mostly graded Democrats on a curve. No matter where you looked, Republicans were given a pass for absurd shit they did while Democrats were graded on a harsh scale that attempts to 'both sides' the two.

Unless we can get a handle on tax and inflation increases... a rate increase isn't going to do much on its own.

I live in Maryland, and it seems leadership here has only found ways to astronomically raise prices on everything. Raising wages does nothing if it gets countered by your mortgage raising 14%. Which to renters, will see that increase too.

Garioshi posted...

Obamacare is Richard Nixon's healthcare plan from the 70's. A majority of Democrats voted for the Iraq War. They completely conceded to the maniacal fascist Republican position on immigration. They're currently trying to abandon the fight for trans rights. Being about 2% better on unions doesn't mean they overall moved to the left.

LightSnake basically covered the response to your false narrative.

Cherry picking specific policies you don't like doesn't change overall the party has shifted more Progressive and left on its agenda.

All you did was display the problem with purist.

Never played.

Even if I did, I never really got into believing in that kind of stuff.

Christians on yet another victim complex. Oh how surprising.

If anything, Christianity is one of the most protected groups of people in this country. Everyone always has to tip toe around offending them even to stupid shit like "Happy Holidays" or someone simply having a different religion.

Until Democrats actually become worse than Republicans, yes. I am voting blue, no matter who.

I believe in taking accountability for the fact that we have a binary system. Even if I don't like either candidate, I have a responsibility to make sure the worse one doesn't win. Regardless if the "least evil" as some like to put it, holds a particular position I don't like.

masterpug53 posted...

There was absolutely no good reason to dignify this poster with response after this line.

Ya. That's my fault forgetting he's that same poster from earlier.

StarFighters76 posted...

Exactly. So is this really good news, or not?

It's sort of a nothing burger since they already got what they wanted.

So at this point it's only a win in the sense that the 2 ego whores won't comprehend they still won already. Those 2 will definitely start complaining about the judge blocking them on something they don't even need anymore.

Cory898 posted...

How is it not a good faith argument?

It's not because you want to avoid accountability on those who contributed in either getting people to stay home, go 3rd party or go Trump.

No amount of spinning changes that movement (even if you ever so claim to have voted for Kamala). It effectively muddied the waters enough to get just enough voters to 'stay home/go 3rd party/vote Trump.' A movement that collectively soured just enough Dem votes. Which like it or not, helped Donald Trump.

Nothing you are saying in the rest of that post changes the laundry list of excuses you are presenting tries to dodge accountability voters also share. Voters are also accountable for their choice to assist in Trumps victory. The realistic choice/outcome of the election was Kamala or Trump. They chose to willingly help Trump who many have openly admitted is worse.

A movement mostly pushed by the GOP cosplaying as Kamala voters, populist like Cenk Uygur, and purist on our own side. The purist in particular, if you don't perfectly align with them, or have flaws at all... they are quick to jump on the 'both sides bad', 'why bother vote' or run defense for the 2, train, to sour the vote. Then have the audacity to act like we should coddle them when they start crying about Trump or why Dems won't stop him. These people hold accountability as well for why we are here, they collectively contributed to this.

Nevertheless, no matter how you dress this up, and throw lip stick on it. These people also helped Donald Trump.

If you count my mortgage, yes.

Remove it, no. Actually thinking about selling since idk if I'll be employed in 3 years. (Federal worker.)

Cory898 posted...

Because thats what the numbers in states Trump flipped suggest. If you have a counter argument to that fine, but youre more interested in cherry picking snippets from my posts instead of responding in good faith to my argument.

Then start with a good faith argument.

The states Trump flipped do not suggest the people who decided to stay home, or vote 3rd party, or promote displeasure at specifically Democrats to convince enough to 'stay home/3rd party/Go Trump' was an inconsequential in number.

Mathematically speaking every person the GOP and purist on our own side could convince to not vote for Kamala, helped Trump. To the ones specifically on our side as they claim, no amount of excuses about Democrats flaws dodges the accountability that voter had in making the choice to aid a Republicans (who's far far far worse) victory.

The messaging efforts stow displeasure at Democrats wasnt just on the politicians. The uncommitted, 3rd party and those that flirted with it (media, social media, etc), made strong efforts to muddy the waters. Their efforts were successful in convincing enough voters that either 'don't vote/go 3rd party/vote Trump because Dems worse.'

This was not a small campaign that's 'only on CE' either.

These people collectively promoted a choice that regardless if they like hearing it, was not inconsequential in its effort to elect Donald Trump.

darkace77450 posted...

Do you mind linking the source?

Idk if this is confirmed. That's why I was saying if this is confirmed this needs to be spread like wildfire.

conduit posted...

both are bad but one is obviously worse, I agree.

The only thing I disagree about is turning against voters and blaming them, instead of blaming the Democratic Party itself for not doing better.

Voters have a responsibility to make sure the worse option doesn't win regardless of the Democrats flaws. Especially those running around with the dumbass logic that "both sides are bad" as if the 2 parties are remotely close when they begrudgingly throw in "Republicans are worse."

Like it or not, voters hold accountability as well in their actions if they choose to let Republicans win. Voters home accountability as well in looking at the options on the table, and making sure "the worse option" as you claim doesn't win. Regardless of the Democrats flaws.

People like you want no accountability for voters and also don't understand Democrats can't actually do anything obstruction free because people like you happily spread the great Republican message to make sure not enough Democrats ever win. Dem politicians definitely have their flaws, but so do the voters.

If confirmed, spread the word.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFEbZXAISXM/?igsh=MTRycXZjdTA3ZG5mbA==

Cory898 posted...

No. Thats not what Im doing. What Im saying is they were not a large enough number to make a difference.

Which is not a true statement.

Actively staying home, going 3rd party..... or spending months convincing others to stay home or go 3rd party mathematically affects the election skewing in Trumps favor.

You are doing exactly what I said you are doing. Attempting to remove most or all accountability that these people have in contributing to Trumps victory.

Xenogears15 posted...

By slowing it greatly, yes. But people wanted their bills to decrease. Impossible as that may be, that's what was wanted and he couldn't deliver.

He can't deliver what isn't possible. This idea that a magic wand/pen was going to waved, and prices were just going to go back to pre pandemic despite inflation being a global problem, is just delusional.

Also deliver or not, the narrative that "Democrats abandoned the working class" is still a false narrative pushed by Republicans and purist (on an all or it's nothing agenda.)

Democrats over the past 20 years, especially Bidens administration alone has passed EOs and legislation that was pushing for help for the working class.

Yet we have Republicans actively trying to harm the working class. Here we have purists and populist pushing a false narrative.

@tremain07

considering dem leadership is still full of a bunch insider trading corporation backing ice cream collecting out of touch fuckers no we can't drop it.

It's still factually untrue the working class was abandoned. Especially given all the progressive policies that have shifted left over the past 20 years.

The Dems definitely have their issues, but it's just false "they abandoned the working class." That message only serves to help Republicans since the false narrative floating around is "Republicans are better for the working class."

President Musk by a mile.

Trumps dangerous, in a nuanced different way, but definitely dangerous.

Musk is far worse.

Cory898 posted...

Kamala and those who sat out were inconsequential, and that Trump won because there were just too many hateful people energized into voting Trump.

This is just plain mathematically false.

Every person who goes around promoting others to stay home, go 3rd party, literally stays home or goes 3rd party helped Trump. That is not an inconsequential number especially in swing states and how close those states were.

Every person who did the above, aided Trump, and amplified Trumps probability of winning.

All you are doing is per usual trying to displace accountability away from those people.

Vyrulisse posted...

Her and Bernie are the only ones speaking plainly and calling this shitshow what it is.

That isn't true.

Heineken14 posted...

Sure, if you ignore the constant obfuscation, secrecy, double-speak, pretending to be something they are not, gaslighting, and so much more. You know, aside from all THAT, they are totally honest.

Your post was silly man, it was silly and incredibly wrong.

I stopped taking his post seriously after the very first sentence.

WingsOfGood posted...

Holy shit he is still going.

A daily reminder that Thanatos_the_Great is not American, nor does he live in America.

Yet Thanatos likes to act like he understands American politics..... or understands what the average working class American (the people that you and I actually have to actually talk to and physical interact with in the real world... not online) actually thinks.

Strider102 posted...

I'm curious how our protest voters and non voters, as well as our resident not in our country Kamala criticizers will respond when Trump starts a genocide against the LGBTQ+ community and any non white people that are left inside the country.

"But Genocide Joe!!!!" And "Kamala was going to be more of the same."

Unserious people with the forethought of a myopic teenager. Many of which are still demanding Democrats to do something about what Trump is doing but don't even comprehend they set things up so Democrats can't actually stop Republicans.

These people got what they wanted, and don't want accountability their actions in the general election that had a binary choice, resulted in Trump.

Vyrulisse posted...

AOC is the only Democrat with a backbone that I've seen.
She's not mincing words and is calling out all this openly it just feels like she's on her own out there while other Democrats like Schumer are talking about mid-terms and other coping bullshit.

Jasmine Crockett has been very vocal

Wtf is he wearing.....

DrizztLink posted...

Hey, remember all those people who really indignantly told us "a GeNoCiDe CaN't GeT wOrSe!!!11" a couple of months ago?

Got super offended when we told them that was fucking stupid?

This is how a genocide gets worse, idiots.

To no surprise most of the users are silent or have total amnesia.

Federal worker. Yes.

Deal.

Kanye isn't great either, especially when off his medication. But I think he'd be less damaging than Musk.

I'm always choosing the lesser evil.

The dumb shit MAGA does and preaches about is virtue signalling, not patriotism.

012yArthur0 posted...

we still see voters being blamed to actually hoping for a change

No matter what you or they tell themselves, they also hold blame.

Using your own word, circlejerk. The circlejerking that voters hold no accountability in the actions they chose to do, is part of why we are here as well.

Theu chose to, either through ignorance or malice, to not make sure the worse option win. Regardless if they are aware, or willing to acknowledge this, they chose to help Trump.

012yArthur0 posted...

It wasn't people being dumb or evil.

No.
Some were most definitely extremely ignorant.
While some were most definitely evil in their intentions to convince enough people to stay home to help Republicans.

Per usual, they want no accountability in their partial contribution in where we are now.

Accolon posted...

There are a few but they'll never post here or explain themselves.

This. I'm confident there's a few here.

Also confident we have a few cosplaying "I voted for Kamala, but here's reason #485724 why I will direct most of my criticism to Dems more than Republicans" people here too.

An entire post just proving my exact point. You went even far as to justify the circlejerk of joining hands with Republicans to grade Democrats on a harsher curve. Republicans are far far worse, but here you are justifying the very reason that is also contributing to the displeasure of Democrats. This false idea that Democrats are almost as bad as Republicans.

Until the politicians and the voters (yes the voters are accountable as well), change, we will forever be where we are. In fact, it'll only get worse.

012yArthur0 posted...

Is because it is the Democrats that set the standards to follow and its own electorate plays into this. It was constantly said that the electorate tries too hard in its own self-police that ends up alienating everyone.

It's not just Democrats. Voters are also to blame if they don't vote in numbers to keep Republicans out.

No amount of finger wagging at Democrats changes this when Republicans are far worse.

012yArthur0 posted...

At this point no amount of "Reps bad" can hide the fact that people are displeased with the Democrats.

But you can see the attempts of circlejerk with the massive amount of posts Humble_Novice creates about either Dems doing anything good or Reps doing anything bad. I remember that 261 was almost a DNC news site at times.

You say this, yet ignore the "circlejerk" messaging constantly that "Dems bad" has most definitely contributed to displeasure some had, to convince them not voting is a bright idea. Hint, it's not.

For example those who were head over heels to attack Kamala during the general election in their desperation to appear fair or morally clean. The same people that were far far far less critical of Trump. As much as it wants to be ignored, that kind of behavior contributed to Trump winning as well.

You say circlejerking, but ignore the massive circlejerk among the crowd who defends non voters, 3rd party voters or those grading Democrats on a harsher curve. Constantly more critical of Dems than Republicans. An action that contributes to those "displeasures" you speak of. In fact, this style of circlejerking to "Dems bad" has bred some accelerationist and nihilists on our side that again, only helps Republicans. These people act as a self fulfilling prophecy with their messaging.

If you want to talk about a circlejerk, the pushed movement to coddle the populist and purist crowds. Those who love to indirectly assist Republicans every step of the way focusing most their attacks on specifically Democrats is a conversation to be had as well. As there's definitely a circlejerk among that crowd who wants lil to no accountability in the role they play in helping Republicans.

It's also not a 'CE Only' phenomenon, given the above is happening everywhere. Dems get graded on a curve on virtually anything they do. Republicans get a pass for the shit they do with an attitude it's par for the course. Part of that is from messaging from our own side joining hands with Republicans.

Antifar posted...

You do need them to actually fight, though. https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancohn.bsky.social/post/3lhetcq5qwc23

I'd agree.

The primary election is the time to remove the ones you deem aren't fighting hard enough. Same to messaging hard to get people to vote for the one you want to win.

However, the general election isn't the time to embrace self sabotage. Like some even on this board embrace with their myopic messaging that ever so coincidentally mirrors Republican messaging. "Dems bad."

012yArthur0 posted...

It kinda already is. I have yet to see someone being a center-right here, let alone a Trumper. They either were bullied out or just lost interest. At most is just some calling out DNC at times.

And it is kinda of a problem in the internet that I barely see any place where both political views actually argue against each other, since all of those spaces now is just a political side circlejerking each other without actually debating.

It is mostly specifically left-wing thing because it is pretty beyond DNC. The red wave is actually a pretty global phenomena, since even the right-wing parties of Europe are gathering strength, and most of the western Europe is pretty damn leftist compared to USA and some countries of South America.

Part of that is that Reddit even started shunning rightwingers there too, and started believing on their own hype thinking that they're the majority. The site pretty much imploded on Trump victory, and by popular vote as well to rub salt on the wound.

Creating multiple posts about "Republicans bad" on a board that is already massively left-wing is just preaching to choir and useless circlejerk at best or hatebaiting at worst.

For reasons I already explained I hard disagree.

You say this board leans left. Where the board leans is not my point at all.

Spending 4 years yet again in a circle jerk as you say, mostly attacking Democrats, not Republican.... but Democrats.... is most definitely part of the problem.

It's not just CE. All outlets are doing this. All outlets from both sides have campaigned on attacking Democrats. Including those who are supposedly on our side in their misguided effort to be morally pure and or fair as possible.

Republicans actually don't do this on a wide scale. Right wing influencers didn't spend 4 years attacking Trump/MAGA. Same to mainstream media, political influencers, and etc. You didn't find MAGA spending 4 years picking at Trumps flaws.

Ofc there are many reasons why Democrats loss, so this isn't to say this is the only reason. But one those reasons we loss is our side spends a self sabotaging amount of time attacking our own party convincing just enough of independent, swing, and even a portion of our own side that there's no point to vote because Dems have a flaw(s).

So when you say there's no point to talk about "Republicans are far worse", and instead focus more on "Dems bad", I hard disagree. Given that rhetoric and messaging matches the rhetoric on a national stage that definitely contributed to getting Trump elected. Twice. Spending 4 years yet again mostly attacking Dems yet again as if Republicans and Democrats are equally bad is the optics uncommitted, 3rd party, and swing voters getting based on the logic they have repeatedly produced. This isn't a CE Only problem either.