Lurker > PunishedBen

Leafeon13N posted...

If i had to lynch off vibes: ulti/death/ben(fd?)

So bad i wish he was scum: kirby

Hes chang and hes just here: chang

So unexpectedly awful I'm starting to believe he cant do that as scum: MI

WTF is this shit: ctes

We fucked ourselves repeatedly from 10 minutes to day end to now: IGCD

Does this list fill anyone with confidence that Red is trying to lead Town to victory?

Ninja

changmas posted...

?

Yeah, right how would the tracker get mis lynched if you flipped what you're claiming lol

Meow1000 posted...

The real question is why in god's name would Ctes and Red be the target

The only possible argument would be that one sent the kill and the bus was used on the kill sender to circumvent Kirby.

If FD is town, one of Ctes/Red must be scum.

Can you explain for me. Is this with redirection, bus driving, or swapping? Because I do think FD is town

htaeD posted...

If we had more leeway and less trust in Ulti I would say that Kirby should block Ulti again and Ctes should wager his vote again.
But there's way too many weak points with that plan.

Why... say that though? Unless you don't have trust in Ulti

I'm of course neighboring you tonight if it's an option. I'm locked out of doing Kirby again and see no benefit to picking anyone else.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Whenever it wasn't all about my role.

I think it makes it clear Ulti must be town after all, it is clearly made in an attempt to mess with his scan, regardless of red's alignment. They were probably very sure he would scan red and weren't as sure of a target previously. That's my best take.

I do agree that if Ctes and Red were swapped then it makes no sense for you to scan guilty tonight. Which destroys FD's role theory

ctesjbuvf posted...

I was seriously hoping you would have done that last night actually. I felt pretty strong about you being town yesterday and I thought you would really enjoy discussing the possibilities of this role and I would love second opinions. I have been more worried you're scum today which makes it less ideal to share with you if true but yeah. Overall, I would say yes definitely, I'm surprised you didn't to try to get things out me n4.

Tbh if you are town and I am scum I do want to pick you though

changmas posted...

Ben's action should be more like a day action than a night one. The invite shows up at the beginning of the night, not at the end

Yes I have to submit it during the day or I won't get to neighbor anyone

ctesjbuvf posted...

I was seriously hoping you would have done that last night actually. I felt pretty strong about you being town yesterday and I thought you would really enjoy discussing the possibilities of this role and I would love second opinions. I have been more worried you're scum today which makes it less ideal to share with you if true but yeah. Overall, I would say yes definitely, I'm surprised you didn't to try to get things out me n4.

I had no idea what you could be, and since I don't get people's results the night they submit them (because the chat ends when night actions resolve), the odds of anyone being a better choice than Kirby was extremely low. With Kirby I get to see who he role blocked since he wouldn't get a result back after the chat ends. I also expected him to die last night but alas >_>

ctesjbuvf posted...

Okay say you really wanted your game to include town bookie, do you have a good character for that? If not, what do you then do, scratch the idea completely or find something that's close enough?

You are blatantly doing what the hosts tell you in the opening post not to and if you're town I seriously hope this is the final lesson.

Britta. Because all you do is britta things up

ctesjbuvf posted...

I have some faith that people will stop hungering for this information for whatever reason and try to go back to where we were.

Also I shouldn't have said pointless I should have said bad.

Where were we? Any thoughts on the swap/bus/redirect?

So you say Taunter and bus drive don't fit together.

But do Wallz role and Ctes' "I'm seen visiting the night tonight" even interact? Who goes first?

Leafeon13N posted...

FD has skated by town and scum in all his recent games pointlessly talking flavor and posting spreadsheets. People have eaten it up.

Why are you jelly lol

Ctes..... if you can answer this, would you be a good person for me to neighbor ?

Leafeon13N posted...

How are we pulling that its genuine?

He's not just gonna state in game that evil pierce doesn't exist when there's many people in the game that know he does (like me, Chang and MI) or can Google it. And yes I forgot too, but that's not something that can be banked on and he was easily proven wrong with a Google

Leafeon13N posted...

Theres an evil variant of that and i am curious what you are using to dispel that notion out of hand.

Because FD forgot that the evil variant exists. And that mistake was genuine. I did the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. How can he forget when he's evil pierce himself?

htaeD posted...

One could argue that FD himself could be putting up lies.
But I like him more than Red at least.

I already explained why FD can't be anything more than Pierce Hawthorne... I feel like no one is agreeing and we all should be lol

ctesjbuvf posted...

I would say yes. Plus, I don't see what you would need them for.

But you were warming up to voting me before you asked for that.

Then fine, I'll let it be. I didn't understand why you wouldn't list the negatives and wanted you to commit to something. At least you've committed to the fact that I'll have to understand later why you didn't want to do it

ctesjbuvf posted...

See Ben is usually super impressive at looking at interactions and clearing people like that. In games I have been scum I have found town Ben super difficult to play against because he is very good at that.

Right now he is openly throwing out that he town cleared me based on Wallz interactions because of my role and me not wanting to state anything about it.

This is someone that very often lies and keeps secrets as town. If town, even in this game!

I don't like it.

Your clear is not as strong as the 6 people above you is the problem, and I'm feeling like I'm wrong somewhere, particularly in the power claims

Is there a downside to listing your negative effects?

ctesjbuvf posted...

I have been considered voting Ben for a couple of hours. This isn't changing that lol.

Why?

By the way, tomorrow (Sunday) is mothers day and my birthday so I'm going to be out all day going to my family's house after church, then out to an escape room. From early morning till late at night. So I have incentive to want to end the day today. If we don't that's fine, I'll just need to come to a descion tonight regardless

I'll give you ten minutes or my vote is locked

Give the full list of negative effects you can choose from now or die lol

Also Ctes, none of us understand why Starburns is a "Bookie" and all of the rest of the roles in the game have solid flavor explanations. Surely you can provide what's there

TotallyNotMI posted...

Scum having a redirector on top of the OP roleblocker with our town claims feels like a fantasy

Unless Ctes' role is "Town Auto wins if you go 6 days only claiming Starburns and all these negative effects"

Great everyone is town. I guess the point is at least two people are lying or playing 4D chess somewhere in a corner.

You have to imagine that if Red was scum they would still have to do what they did and prevent him from getting scanned. So it doesnt clear him that he was swapped

Right,

This is getting juicier.

The fact that Ctes and Red were swapped/bussed at all kind of means that mafia cant possibly be aware that Ctes scans guilty tonight, right? Because what if Ulti scanned Red? He would just target Ctes and find him guilty? If the theory is that Ctes is conditional Godfather if he gives up his vote, why swap him with Ulti's most likely scan target?

I hate the bussing/swapping roles in general for this very purpose. Also, redirection is out because they already had a roleblocker.

Actually, bussing makes less sense than a full swap. It doesn't make sense that they were bussing Ctes to redirect the scan target, because - FD targeted Ctes. He got Red. They definitely weren't expecting Ulti to target Ctes again.

If its a full swap of targets, then that potentially could make Ulti hit Ctes instead of Red were Ulti to target Red....this is all assuming Ulti is town and that scum were expecting him to target Red though

UltimaterializerX posted...

I know the target.

Okay interesting. So then what was the purpose of scum bussing Ctes to Red, because that gets rid of my idea.

If he is truthful i also would have liked him to be truthful right away and tell us he can scan guilty so that we dont waste a scan on him. AKA, claim Miller. But that's maybe a me thing

So scum either - redirected FD to Ctes

Bussed Ctes to Red

Or swapped Ctes and Red

But the redirection one sounds impossible because then why would you redirect the pineapple, and why was that not used to redirect something more important earlier in the game? So why would scum swap the target of Ctes and Red? As usual I forget how bussing works. Does it work where if scum was expecting Ulti to scan Red last night, which they instead get the result of scanning Ctes?

Is that why they let Ctes scan guilty. And Red is town? Big theories going on here and thats why I want to know if Ulti knows exactly who he scanned each night

I will say, the way Ctes has been claiming small bits in short spurts here does feel incredibly stilted. The only reason I hesitate is because why does he admit to scanning guilty and being seen visiting night kills at all when Sbell is dead and Ulti is known to have not targeted him? Maybe its just the best thing he could come up with for negative actions that are worse than not having a vote? Because the issue is he does have to explain why he has been taking his own vote away each night, and does not have any benefits to offer to counter balance that downside.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Screw it, I'll do it from mobile.

I think ctes is Evil Troy.

Evil Troy loses his voice when trying to eat a flaming troll roll (yes, really) and he is later seen speaking using some kind of mechanized voice box.

So I think his two options are to stay silent (lose his vote) and scan innocent (because he looks like regular Troy)

Or to keep his vote (voice) but it gives him away so he scans guilty.

This theory doesn't explain how my love canister got to red, but maybe certain actions deflect off of him onto random targets. That part is less clear but the rest of it fits the flavor of Evil Troy too perfectly.

##Vote: Ctes

That's pretty brilliant actually.

ctesjbuvf posted...

The third option is redirect FD to you

That seems extremely unlikely, because why would scum redirect the pineapple? Thats just as useless as the pineapple.

Important question. Ulti, do you know who your target was for sure each night, or does your PM just come back Guilty or Innocent?

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont see the scum equity in ctess behavior when I have an innocent scan on him. As scum or 3P, he just claims some innocent safelist whatever. Not hey guys Im gonna put myself out there in the dumbest way possible.

I think hes town. And if we got unlucky because of the green check, shit happens.

Well how long ago did ctes commit to having a power/non vanilla role? Because if it was after your innocent scan then this is true. But if it was before then it means he had to claim something, and it also had to explain why he couldn't vote day 2 and beyond...

He says he has beneficial effects, but I'm more interested in how he possibly obtains them over the negative ones than I am interested in what they are. What they are, I can understand not claiming if town, but what about how to obtain?

TotallyNotMI posted...

And if you guys are going to lynch me today please do it in the first 24 hours so I can move on and enjoy my weekend.

Just lynch those three after

And right now I would easily vote Red over MI >_>

IfGodCouldDie posted...

So like a defacto godfather?

Maybe not the ninja part since Wallz already seemed to fill that role. But I was just going off the opposite of what he gave us for the condition he fulfilled tonight, which sounds bizarre for town to have

ctesjbuvf posted...

Last night I didn't lose my vote but my reputation instead. Meaning last night I would have scanned guilty and seen commiting all kills.

htaeD posted...

Okay I think you sorta already explained that, but I will ask again for maybe more details.
So you didnt townread Red at the time?

In the brief moment where I glanced to see if Red was posting and saw his long post, I then shot him up to being higher than MI and Peaf without much thought. (It was also combined with Ulti still saying that Red was town. ). Thats when I unvoted. Then when I was not able to look at the game i could only think of reasons NOT to vote MI and Peaf, so when I cam back I was fine with voting Red, or any of the three that Kirby switched to. The only way I wouldn't have sheeped Kirby is if he suddenly decided to vote someone not in the those 3 vanilla claims lol.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't choose if I get the negative affect, but I do choose which of the negative affects I get if I get a negative. I picked the vote loss the first three nights because I thought it wouldn't be too bad in this sized game early.

Last night it was my idea that losing the reputation instead would not give any false results whatever given with all the claims and thus I could have the vote again.

So at the start of the night phase, host PM's you saying "Congratulations, pick a negative effect!" ?

Just some speculation, but what if its "lose your vote to scan innocent and not get seen doing any kills"

PunishedBen posted...

Alright, I feel like I accidentally derailed the Red lynch yesterday and I now regret it. Once I actually had time to READ the long Red post, I have questions. I thought it was good at first glance because it looked like he was sharing thoughts on his way out. Something i dont expect scum Red to do as he would shut up if his lynch was inevitable. But I found that the post wasnt as conclusive as I assumed.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/51217345.png
"As someone that has nailed my head on a pike as scum with good reason, this has been weak."

Should MI be nailing you harder if you are in fact not scum??? If you're town then why read him this way as not lynching you hard enough?

And smaller nitpick,but why did you word it as "Game state says i should want to lynch Peaf or MI". As opposed to you wanting to lynch Peaf or MI?

Speaking of. Red, any interest in addressing these? I guess the MI read for one, and if that still holds true

htaeD posted...

To be clear Ben I did not suspect you for the timing of the vote. Or even the laziness of it alone. That I can see a townBen tho.
But the sheepvote in combination with it being on your previously townread Red is what made me vote you.

Yeah, I can understand maybe, it just seemed like you understood more than anyone that I was at work and thus didnt even know, maybe Red had been scanned guilty or something, my vote just felt useless and I didnt have a clear preference to think Peaf or MI was scummier than Red either, is the problem.

You'll see now that I almost regret making that post calling Red town in the first place, since I have problems with the post that I snap called him town for. But you couldnt have really known that before I got a chance to explain myself this morning.

It is interesting how aggressively you defended yourself...probably a good thing. I'm seeing good in everyone and its a problem ):

ctesjbuvf posted...

Last night I didn't lose my vote but my reputation instead. Meaning last night I would have scanned guilty and seen commiting all kills.

Okay now THIS sounds like 3rd party.

So nights 1,2,3 you obtained nothing and only lost your vote???

Kirby321 posted...

Ben clearly stated that he was running into a time conflict with the deadline and work. We know already that Ben is in the CST time zone, so the 6 PM EDT deadline would happen exactly when he's off work (5 PM CDT). He said as much during the sign-up topic.

It was extremely clear that Ben the only reason he was tying his vote to me is because he had zero time to analyze the topic and commit to a read. In a vacuum, that sounds like lazy scum. But the context is important here. Ben could be faking it, but given what we already know about the situation, it checks out. Ben would have been getting off of work at that time, and if he's had a busy day, of course he wouldn't be able to catch up.

Now, I agree that sometimes scum screws up and makes obvious mistakes. Could you do me a favor? I made a post analyzing Death's end of day. I want you to look at that post and tell me what you think. Do you agree with the conclusion I made there?

For added context, I wasn't even getting off work - but instead having to drive to a client's office to do some late day work there, which lasted me well past deadline

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because sometimes scum screws up?

We'd have never lynched knightz if we convinced ourselves that scum is incapable of making obvious mistakes.

Why tie his own vote to yours to begin with? Shows a lack of wanting to commit to his own reads

I tied my vote to Kirby because at that point i was in the car driving and way behind on posts. My first reaction was to not vote at all, because my opinion was not going to be fully informed. But then as soon as i made that post I realized it would be better if I just + 1 a town vote, and Kirby is my most trusted ally to both be town and make the right decision.