Lurker > PunishedBen

If you both are scum, you cant exactly support each other. Everyone's POE was narrowed down to Peaf/Red/MI at the start of day 3

I'm still open to the possibility

Leafeon13N posted...

These are in fact on the table, yes.

Hell if i was in your position as town I'd be paranoid that he had access to your chats somehow with a flavor mistake that glaring and on the nose.

Well my senses may have been dulled to the gas leak that year

Leafeon13N posted...

This is a stretch imo ben. Definitely shouldn't be flavor clearing from your pov because its a weird mistske for both of you to make at once.

? That just makes it way more understandable to me why FD made the presumption. What's the alternative? That he's evil Pierce who thought he could get away with saying there's no evil Pierce in community? That we're both scum?

Leafeon13N posted...

Wait what.

FD sent me his sperm night 1 (I heard pineapples makes your sperm taste sweeter). I figured whoever sent the sperm was Peurce Hawthorne. This is a bit like Mr. Spell in the last game, where it's a flavor clear on that player because they're a town flavor. During the day FD winked at me with a kissy face, so I then knew FD was the sender. I wiki'd the evil study group to refresh my memory on who is the scum flavors, and on the wiki it doesn't mention pierce at the top and says how the timeline was created by Pierce's death. This makes sense because they only introduce an evil Pierce later on in season 4 in one episode that no one likes, where they reveal he faked his death. I forgot about that, so I told my neighbors and myself that FD's flavor is probably town because "He's Pierce and there's no evil Pierce"

MI reminded us that we're both wrong. The fact FD was wrong about this means he did the same exact thing as me. And it means he certainly not evil Pierce, otherwise he wouldn't have pretended evil Peirce isn't a thing lol

Forceful_Dragon posted...

.

I'm glad we learned there was a clear flavor split before I had to claim. While Pierce is ultimately a good guy, he is sometimes played as the jerk of the group, but at the end of the day he doesn't have an "Evil" version like the others do. The other 6 turn evil because in that timeline Pierce was accidentally killed by the gun from Annie's purse.

To be fair, I also falsely remembered things this way and told as much to my neighbors that you probably aren't scum because "there's no evil pierce". But I guess that's out the window

HOWEVER. The fact that FD remembered it this way and also forgot about evil pierce means there's no way he's faking it and ESPECIALLY no way he is evil pierce. So congrats, you're town cleared anyway

Leafeon13N posted...

Literally said to lynch wallz over him.

Oh, I guess I was thinking day 3. Don't think Wallz had any room to be protected by his team though when Kirby claimed roleblock on wallz.

Leafeon13N posted...

Has ctes said this is refreshing or is it just the same action running in perpetuity?

By his reaction at the start of days he seems to get a notification that he's blocked each night

I've been waiting to use that one. What if I was
Leafeon13N posted...

No, it really isnt. I always talk about making the safe play when town is up.

If I'm scum there, i push corrik, easy. Especially with wallz also being a broken as heck role. And only having to talk to chang.

Who did you push if NOT corrik?

TotallyNotMI posted...

His flavor and his role don't make sense with the rest of this town. I don't buy it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4e007608.jpg

If MI was blocked then it means he not only didn't do the kill, but also didn't vote block ctes.

What's curious is that mafia have continued to use the vote block even though they were in horrible danger of that player being taunted each night. It's starting to feel like they're not worried about that happening. Is that risk really worth it to block ctes? Or, the most likely scenario is that the killer is just the same person doing the vote block.

Well I was expecting strongman to be used early in the game, and if I died that quickly then none of this would have mattered anyway, because yes I'd need at least two people alive after me to cooberate with each other that I told them I was bulletproof. And then the conclusion should be obvious from there.

And yes I would love to stop explaining myself too. Tomorrow hopefully I can refocus on talking about something other than me

Well, that was only when I died, it would show that scum didn't know I was BP

So I WAS aiming to die this game! ....as long as i successfully kept neighboring town.

The thing is I was aiming to neighbor town, not scum. I was pretty certain all of the people I targeted post Chang claiming were town, so acting like I didn't trust them wasn't the angle, and I DID trust them. So potentially 100% confirming them by telling them all I was Bulletproof was a better use of my power.

Tbh, I was just trying to think of the absolute best possible way to use Neighborizer as town. ....And my experimenting may have gone too far. I realize after your explanation how similar it feels to last game, but that was not my intention. >_>

I didnt see the downsides besides lying, but everyone knows I don't mind doing that

Kirby321 posted...

While I did forget about the flavor scan part, honestly, I did find that part weird... because why would you need to flavor scan me if you trusted that I was town and openly claimed my flavor lol

That was 100% me just trusting you, and part of me figured some of it was BS. But in any case, if you're third-party, you clearly have no intention of scum siding, so if you need a leash, we got you lol

Still, if you're not actually Bulletproof, I'm not sure what your end goal would've been if you actually got shot and killed by scum. Which begets the question of why even do the reaction test in the first place when it'd have the chance of backfiring and sowing needless paranoia.

But I'll get off your back and let you do your thing. I am pretty damn certain you're not scum at the very least.

If I got shot then it basically confirms all of my neighbors town because they shot me even though i said I was bulletproof.

It wasnt supposed to backfire if you all trusted me and didnt out it like you did lol. But it can only backfire on me at worst, and I can defend myself. Otherwise its a useful reaction test. And if I did neighbor scum then its a great way to either figure that out by their reaction or dissuade them from shooting me

TotallyNotMI posted...

This is a bad post. I made a post expressing doubt over the claims then continued to post analyzing things in more detail and came to the conclusion that the majority of the claims had to be real. It's cherry picking an older thing I said and already worked through to make me look bad.

I was catching up through the posts I missed and saw that for the first time and thought to ask. I just saw this post, which I assume is what you're referring to unless there's more. I'll refrain from commenting till I read everything...

TotallyNotMI posted...

okay so we're at what 13 alive

scum has 3-4 left

If it's 3 we have 4 more mislynches before mylo
If it's 4 we have 3 more mislynches before mylo

so yeah I think logically it's best to let ulti/blade be? If Blade is scum (which I don't think anyway but), they can't kill Ulti. If Ulti is scum, they can't kill Blade and Ulti has to keep giving us scan results.

Leafeon13N posted...

If you are convinced ben is town you should be lynching blade, tbh.

Stop trying to make red scum for phantom reasons.

Can you elaborate?

ctesjbuvf posted...

So why did you tell it in a neighbor chat?

ctesjbuvf posted...

All fine answers imo.

Still very curious about telling about BP in a chat.

Well now you know. Part of a reaction test and contingency plan for protecting myself. BP was the best thing I thought i could get away with with my flavor, but since Kirby didnt know the flavor at all I added that I would be able to flavor scan him too if he posted my poem. He posted it immediately, no questions asked.

Nah, Mzero is still the #1 most town cleared person in the game due to the way Taco interacted with Knightz. I can show work if needed but thought it was fairly obvious

TotallyNotMI posted...

all these claims are giving me a headache i believe almost none of them

Thats a bit of a copout. Game has to have a doctor and cop right? And why would scum claim it so early? Ulti has been hinting since day 1. Whose claims are you referring to when you say this?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Well shit. I spent several hours with my mom after work today so I WAS busy, but then I waited a little longer for MZero to check in because I wanted to test if he was really taunter based upon how he reacted to the day going up.

Sorry about that, I didnt think about there being uses for pineapple vendor, just ended up telling Kirby and Mzero when arguing you were town.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Ehhhhh

He's also literally the only character claimed to have only appeared in a single episode. There are SO many humorous characters in this show that appeared numerous times, why Buddy? Hell, Rich appeared in at least 3 episodes and he ALSO almost joined the study group, why not Rich.

but I told myself I was going to try not to get stuck on flavor -_-

Well all I can tell you is that how often a character appears doesn't seem to matter, given my role.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And finally, a spreadsheet update:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4f555804.png

Did red ever claim flavor?

You can take out the bulletproof part.

But that's why I commented that Blade + Kirby did not seem like too much protection to me

The quicker we get over the idea of me being 3rd party the better, so that we can actually kill scum. You'll just give them ammo to use me as a distraction if that's the argument. Either argue I'm scum or town.

I'm Neighborizer because Buddy desperately wants to join the study group, so wants to try and befriend people at night.

I'm not bulletproof. I already hinted earlier at that being a test, and also a gambit to make myself never get killed if I did neighbor scum and the info got out. My reaction to Kirby announcing it was real because I didn't understand why he would do that while fully believing I was bulletproof. But he probably just actually didn't trust me for legitimate reasons, as it does make no sense with the flavor. And that's fair, because I did lie about that >_>

Did not think there was any harm in doing that except to potentially hurt the scum team though. Still dont think there's any harm in it. .... I'm not like him! I'M NOT LIKE CORRIK ;0;

TotallyNotMI posted...

Ben walk me through the logic of each of your choices

I kind of feel like town Ben would have neighborized me to try to get a feel for my alignment after having me in his POE consistently

I decided early on after Chang was obviously town (Because he told me about his role) that I wouldn't be using my power to try and target and interrogate scum. Instead i was going to try and keep my power a secret from scum and use it to neighbor roles like Taunter or Kirby's role to get information about who they targeted that normally they wouldn't be able to share if they died the same night. Thought that this could potentially come in clutch as the number of players dwindled down

Kirby321 posted...

Actually, let me be blunt.

Chang, are you around? Did Ben ask you to repeat a specific set of phrases close to a deadline?

By the way, for clarity in case this comes up, the poem I gave Chang was different than the one I gave you and Mzero. Chang figured out I plagiarized the first one and Lea gave me demerits, so to please her I wrote my own lol

Meow1000 posted...

Which is why Peaf constantly TMIing he was town and refusing to do anything to actually save him is inherently scummy.

I thought he came in pretty hard to save him when he had time. Harder than anyone else did that day for sure. Sure it was after you called him out... but I can easily see it that he just didnt time to before that

PeaceFrog posted...

Pretty sure it's just red/ Blade/ mi

I do not think Ben as scum would be interested in helping day 3 go in a direction other than Corrik halfway through the day when it was stalling, and would have been content to just let the day drizzle out

Similarly, I cant believe so many people and especially Blade are reading Peaf as scum yesterday. Corrik is the mislynch scum really needed yesterday, because they need so many that it would be w waste to not take the easy one and let him squirm away. So I dont think that Peaf sticking up for Corrik is something inherently scummy, I think its towny if anything. Corrik was playing in a way that would have even had scum confused and maybe even thinking he was third party. So I don't think scum finds it a good idea to act like they expect him to flip town. That's against the grain. Red and MI were much more on the sidelines concerning Corrik than Peaf was. Passively calling him town

It is 19 players. That doesn't even feel like a lot of protection imo

*taunt Sbell

MZero posted...

Suspicious as he may be, I implore you to not just stall the rest of the day on Corrik. Be sure to consider other options, like Peaf. Even though he didn't want the day to stall on Corrik either and proposed Red as his biggest scumread, he didn't even push him when he had votes. Look, the Corrik works in mysterious ways, and sometimes you just have to accept that's how he is, kind of like Lopen. Lynching town for playing the same way they always do is how town loses games.

I think Mzero stuck to Sbell because he made a post at the end of day 2 saying he would scan Sbell, and wanted to stick to it. >_>

If he didnt scan Sbell then yay, I convinced him. But he didnt say he was changing it

Ctes and Death were great scans (Well, Ctes was for night 1, would have been less so day 2). And apparently the Sbell attraction runs deep because I dont think I convinced Mzero to not target Sbell last night lol

Ctes is town because of the Wallz interactions, but I am okay with everyone massing today.

Kirby321 posted...

Ugh maybe but we practically town cleared everyone N2 except for Corrik and look how that turned out >_>

Maybe I'm just salty because Corrik really blundered big time.

But hey, I just had a thought. Ben, did you think there was any possibility you blocked the kill N1?

Not enough to ever say it out loud, but yes a man can dream that post game he learns he was a night 1 target.

But I'm pretty sure you blocked the kill sinze Wallz was a super ninja. And you said you blocked Wallz because of me, so maybe I did help stop the kill anyway!

I dont even remember where I was with Red since I got sidewiped by Kirby, but I'm pretty sure I didnt talk about this, so -

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b32ae272.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/38a13bf5.png

Red, what does Peaf's argument have to do with me?

I dont like this post because he jumps on me with Blade but not for the same reason as Blade

Kirby321 posted...

In my defense, I didn't realize you were committed to claiming Vanilla even in a mass claim >_>

Uh, who exactly was thinking SBell wasn't scum? I don't think anyone thought SBell was firmly town. Same deal with Isquen. I don't think Ulti picked a bad target, honestly.

I thought he was town so much that I convinced you not to target him night 2 lol

ctesjbuvf posted...

Hm, I almost follow but this is 3 players at this point. But also three likely town that you could perhaps at some point confirm with a no kill.

Okay, it checks out. If you are town Kirby screwed up revealing it I think.

When I say never reveal I was neighbor, I just mean dont reveal until absolutely necessary. Those who know, would know. And if anything I said or did with them leaks outside of them then it means I neighbored scum.

Today really didn't need the distraction of me defending myself, and i have a lot to explain so its probably going to continue. But its all there.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Man why was I not neighborized.

I am offended by that being basically the only person on the board that has never been neighborized nor in a mason chat.

I will say one serious thing. Kirby seemed like the most obvious n2 kill to me so that's an interesting neighbor.

That's exactly why I neighbored him, so that I could get the result of who he roleblocked in case he died. That's more information. I 100% expected him to die so it was surprising for me too.

The flavor scan bit was a bluff, just to be clear. >_> I only used that one on Kirby because I didnt think of the idea when I talked to Chang, and Kirby was actually there in the last ten minutes so I figured i could test this on him. Mzero wasnt gonna be there so I didnt bother with the flavor scan bluff because i wouldnt be able to gauge his reaction time anyway

TotallyNotMI posted...

also ben are you that confident that no one that you neighborized is scum?

I was pretty sure, but I had contingency plans. Like telling them at the final 10 minutes of day that they had to post a poem I wrote in order to enable my BP. I also told Kirby I could flavor scan him if I posted the poem. He did it without hesitation.

I only revealed the fact I was BP in the final 10 minutes so that if they were on scum team they would at least get frazzled. And i made it a test so that they had to post the poem I wrote to activate it

ctesjbuvf posted...

So why did you tell it in a neighbor chat?

I told everything in neighbor chat to all 3 of them. Including my plan to never reveal I was neighbor or BP. That is why we pretended like it never happened.

Hell, Chang told me about his whole role as Jeff on night 1 and plans on how to do it, I just pretended like I didnt know about him like a real bro does lol

TotallyNotMI posted...

Ben walk me through the logic of each of your choices

I kind of feel like town Ben would have neighborized me to try to get a feel for my alignment after having me in his POE consistantly

Night 1 was Chang. I mean I had to, to create Ben Chang.

changmas posted...

Ben, what say you and I work together this game? By our powers combined, we can become Ben Chang

PunishedBen posted...

I could use a study buddy. I like this! WE WILL DOMINATE THE EARTH

On night 1 I learned that I lose access to my chat an hour before deadline, so I wouldnt be able to carry on any information from investigation roles. Luckily we had Mzero and Kirby claimed, so my choices were between them. Kirby's result is more valuable (Since scum could just kill Mzero directly and his taunt target could mean nothing) and I expected him to die that night. So I talked to Kirby. He gave no indications that he ever thought I was anything but town...

Mzero night 3 because he had the best role with information I carry on if he died.

And i asked all of these people to tell me their action at the last possible minute if they want, just so that there is no chance i could be scum undermining them.

Kirby321 posted...

Scum is missing a nightkill, is down two members, and until SBell, town has only lost Vanillas so far.

I don't see a reason to hide info at this point in the game. You're not going to get shot when Doctor and Jailer are both openly claimed right now.

I didn't have to reveal the BP ever. It could have lasted till end game. Same strategy as body guard last game. Keep that shit a secret. I'm tired of towns claiming BP. There is never a reason to

changmas posted...

i mean tbh it made sense to me that ben wouldn't claim if that was a real town role because exactly this would happen lol

I would have claimed. AFTER I definitively stopped a kill, or if I had good info from a dead player, like who Kirby role blocked tonight.

Meow1000 posted...

Well good to know I was right about Ben.

Scum has absolutely zero reason to do what Kirby does on day 2.

Notice how i DIDN'T vote Kirby? Because logic is telling me that too. I just don't understand why Kirby thinks that's a good idea to reveal. It could have stopped a kill and clinched the game.

Kirby321 posted...

Because you're going to get yourself lynched Corrik-style if you don't be honest right now :P
Plus, something doesn't add up.

I'm Jailer.
Blade is Doctor.
And you're apparently Bulletproof.

That feels like a lot of protection for town.

Why in God's name would you reveal that.

I can only assume this is nefarious

I want to vote Kirby right now because I don't understand it

Kirby321 posted...

I know bringing up the 't' word is a bit of unnecessary paranoia to sow. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ben was actually a third-party. I know Ben as a whole is a player of grandeur and splendor and making excuses for why he forgot he was a Bodyguard N1... but something felt fishy about my interactions with him. And I'm concerned that my trust in him as town was taken advantage of.

Which is why I'm especially concerned that he doubled down on lying about his role during a massclaim.

Why the he'll third party and not scum?

Why blow up my plan. I told you everything and told you I would claim vanilla. There was only a benefit to keeping things secret. I have no reason to reveal anything at this point of the game because everyone I've neighbored is still alive.

Town Neighborizer. Can't Neighbor the game person on subsequent nights. Chang night 1, Kirby night 2, mzero night 3.

Kirby321 posted...

... Ben, I don't like this claim. You know exactly why. No more secrets right now if we're all committing to massclaiming.

Sorry, TOWN vanilla. Not sure what you're getting at