Lurker > EDumey

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My main issue with Dumey is he thought I was paired with Ulti all day like Kirby did when I was not. I dont know if that means as much as it could. Possible he and Kirby Scum/scum and they discussed it in Mafia Chat and both got it wrong but this is me now picking

Just as a quick response to this, Ulti stated his intention to date you and protect you because Chris green checked you very publicly, and I earlier pointed out a post from Chang where he cleared up the order of dates between Ulti/Mzero/Sultan that I misread because I was skimming too quickly. That's where the confusion came from. Ulti has even very recently reaffirmed that he won't let you be lynched and will date you to veto it if necessary. I got the detail of the date wrong, but the intent of Ulti correct.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

10. Kirby- went into Kirby alot already. He willingly wants to kill town reads to clear other town reads is still the most baffling part of Kirby to me. Kirby has been showing the whole game he almost doesn't care who gets killed. Forgetting Lock town Deputy was in the game until I was rhe only one to offer Corrik a date. Kirby is also on rhe nitpicking train not just with me but with others as well.

Top scum read. Could go more into it but discussed this alot..

Maybe we should just kill Kirby. Give potentially Town Sultan his ultimate redemption run for this game. He had the intuition to know something was wrong with the Dumey/Peaf pair early D1. If Kirby flips scum, then it's either Town Sultan having a great game despite the pressure on him, or a scum Sultan bussing up a storm. Either way, seems like a good path to me!

Yeah, just in keeping with my earlier lynch preference post, I said probably UIti first. But was wondering if lynching one before the other gave us better read on the other. It does kind of sound like if Kirby is scum, that could heavily implicate Ulti. Not certain the other way around is true.

If we lynch Kirby and Kirby flips town, does that effectively clear Ulti in your mind, Lopen? Or can Ulti still be scum independently of Kirby's alignment.

Lopen posted...

Yes but as town who is interested in the scan results you would think he would want to know

Just leaving it Red's discretion implies disinterest

You may think this is nitpicking but details in language is how you find scum often tomes

I agree with you. I think it's worth looking at. Just offering my perspective to you because you asked if it was weird or not.

Man it's actually so hard for me to see Ulti as scum sometimes. I think it's part of his apparently now-patented FOURTH ALIGNMENT that's getting to me. I can't fault others for thinking he's scum. But I KNOW I'm town, I KNOW Ulti gave me his life at the end of D2, I KNOW Ulti posted pressure for me to dump him for Red at the end of D2, that I didn't get to do because I was preoccupied and Kirby did the move before I could check back in.

Maybe Ulti was just hard gambling on my cautiousness, but man is it a hard pill to swallow that he was bluffing there. He's probably just town and stubborn about how he's playing the date mechanic. It is so like Ulti to "soul read" a player one way or the other, and actually have the ability to effectively veto a lynch in this format is just something I can see Ulti do. That's just fun.

I don't see it, sorry. Haha. If Red got the scan before the chat closed, I would just assume he would share the info, unless he was just unfortunately not available. I would just assume that as a given. Kirby posted "but he didn't say if he got a scan or not" which sounds like he just left it up to Red's discretion.

Lopen posted...

Isquen and I were both kinda assuming Kirby would get Red's scan so don't tell me it's obvious he wouldn't get it. If you're a vanilla if absolutely should not be. If you have a night action it should be.

As someone who's played Neighbor multiple time before, I always thought it was pretty obvious that neighbor wouldn't get access to scans or anything in the case of a death. But maybe that's just me!

EDumey posted...

My preference for lynches is kind of sloppy right now.

I don't think I finished this thought. Forgive me, it's monday morning.

My preference is still Sultan, but past that I'm just kind of following town lead. Kind of feel like the safest bet is a lynch in the Lopen/Ulti/Kirby group, but I'd probably choose Ulti first out of those three. I still think Kirby being scum is POSSIBLE but very low likelihood. Lopen could very well be scum, but I'd just be trusting other player's player reads on that. Players like FD/MZero/Isquen I don't have a strong preference on, but pretty much wouldn't get in the way of town if we thought that was the direction to go. I'd probably actively stand in the way of JC/Corrik/Chris at this point.

##Date: JC
##Date: Corrik
##Date: Chris

Chris I've been combative with you this game, so I understand if you don't want to spend a night with me. :P

Gonna be honest, I kinda checked out last night to focus on FF7 and let you all try to progress a little without me muddying things up with my tunneling.

I was a little annoyed at Kirby's perspective of me apparently not being active enough D2 when I felt like I was constantly inserting myself trying to move things forward and get people to engage, including urging Kirby to not leave the game right at the 1PM mark and give reads of the current game state. I guess we all kind of struggle with perceptions of how we're playing the game versus how other people read us. :)

My preference for lynches is kind of sloppy right now. I said I thought Isquen was looking somewhat townie before because of his pickiness for a date partner at the end of D2. But someone responded to me about that (FD?) that scum probably has just as much motivation to be picky about date partners. Especially if roles actions are influenced on who you partner with. Isquen's two dates were Corrik and Lopen. Two pretty high profile players. Both unclaimed at time of date. Meh, this is probably a worthless angle to pursue without any evidence of what scum roles are, like a roleblock or something.

MZero posted...

I'm kind of starting to think scum Sultan would have given up by now

kind of reminds me of console mafia but also his reactions today have felt very out of character. I don't ever remember Sultan boasting about how good he is at mafia before

I don't think I've ever seen Sultan play like this before, town or scum.

A lot of his annoyance is at perception that people are saying he sucks, but I don't even think most of us were attacking his level of play throughout the game. Just saying we thought his motivations were possibly scummy, or inconsistent for town. I can understand him saying he feels like he's being "nitpicked" but doesn't that happen every mafia game?

Sultan, outside of this individual game, if you thought any of my posts were calling you dumb or bad at the game or something, that wasn't my intent. I apologize for that.

Corrik7 posted...

Did Sultan get up

no

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I don't understand this part.

Ulti and MZero are currently dating each other, and not Sultan. Lopen is dating Sultan.

everything else seems effectively accurate.

you right. i did that from memory. looking back i think i misread this post when i skimmed over it and jumbled the names up.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80711281/979165375

Corrik7 posted...

What a long day I've had. Anything new

hi corrik
chris claimed town prosty.
sultan confirmed he got a host message that his roommate slept with him.
we've agreed to call a ceasefire on chris because he's confirmable and (at least i think) it doesn't seem to make sense for scum to have both vanilla scanner and scum prosty.
lopen wanted to kill scum godfather prosty chris for a while.
we all mellowed out a little and agreed to kill sultan instead.
ulti and mzero vetoed sultan kill because chris green checked him.
now we're running around like chickens with our heads cut off trying to figure out if we can kill lopen or kirby or me or something.

SirChris posted...

what if we killed lopen/ulti/kirby today

I actually liked the idea of town controlling more of the death I just was smashing my head at wanting the prosty to die lol

The argument against this is that if we miss, we go to MYLO.

As FD explained earlier, we go down to 5v2, then if we mislynch, scum can pair with each other and end the game a day earlier than expected. that does of course necessitate that scum doesn't pair with each other on the 5v2 day. I don't think it's TOTALLY off the table, but we'd want to be really damn sure that one scum is in that trio we're killing.

Chris I asked you after you left to try and provide context on players like FD and MZero and reads on them. If you're town, I'd like you to disengage from the Lopen-hole and help narrow the people in the PoE.

If you shouldn't be lynched today, and Ulti/Sultan are paired so we can't go either of them, we need to find our best direction for after that. Is it just Ulti/Sultan scum and we are doomed to mislynch here? Or if Sultan is town like you think, we need to find the best option now.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Who did Chris sleep with night 1?

Death

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Ment to mention this before isn't this big brain play what killed Lea?

This was Ulti's main concern with Lopen in our night chat. Ulti thought remaining scum was Lopen+Sultan. With claims that Lopen was playing similar to a way he did in some Kingmaker game that I have no context of. Basically I think the idea was that Lopen diverted SO much attention to trying to resolve the end of D1 when basically everyone else wanted to move onto it, that he made it hard to not lynch someone in that pile.

Though I think Corrik is the one that really kind of put the proverbial nail in the Lea coffin, with his meta validation that she shouldn't exist. Unfortunate that he was operating on the false premise that Town Cop would read his posts.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Nothing wrong with that but why not resolve it first?

I'm not sure what you mean. I do want to resolve you first! :P

My problem right now is near everyone in the game having some heavy suspicion of Sultan, but not being able to lynch him because Ulti (someone else in many people's PoEs, that also fully supported Sultan as scum last night) is taking Chris's scan of no movement as law, and not entertaining any idea of maybe Sultan as scum just didn't move because he has a non-moving role and didn't submit night kill because of the suspicion on him?

The feel-bad of this dating style of game is that when my primary preferred lynch is denied me, I have to try and look at second/third options that I'm not as confident in. I rarely in any mafia game I've ever played have had a full scum team read that I'm confident in pursuing. It's always major suspect, then random trailing PoE behind it.

Lopen, maybe I'm just dumb, but I can't see scum having Prosty and Vanilla Scanner at the same time on a team with only 3 scum. It's just way too much redundancy with nothing else to help them. Maybe I'm just short sighted on my part because I don't see enough of the town setup. But it seems crazy to me.

It seems like you're not even doubting that Chris is Prosty any more. You're just taking it for granted that he WILL be confirmed tomorrow, but you still want us to lynch him.

I'm just winding back from the emotional play of being insistent that my reads of the game are correct, and looking at what the actual practical play is here. Lynching Chris is not it. We take the extra info every time.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I'm just annoied most of you think I'm scum for stupid reason. I played a strategy and not the norm so I must be scum it's fucking stupid. And OMGUS

I don't think you're using OMGUS correctly. You weren't suspecting all of the people who have you heavily in the POE. If it were just people pointing the finger back at you, I would agree that it'd be dumb. That's not happening at all. People are pointing fingers at you because of the way you are interacting with the game mechanics, and saving your own skin above all else.

It's not just D1 Sultan. It's also how you acted D2. You can say it was "strategy" to date Chris D2 even if he was your suspect, but all that means is you knowingly kept someone you suspected of being scum out of the pool and let town lynch a pile of unknowns instead.

Or you're just scum and found a date that wasn't going to dump you when you knew you had people advocating for you to be the one lynched. Your "strategy" conveniently doubled as a way to cowardly sit back and not have any risk on your shoulders.

Plenty of other town players gave up their dates at various points in the game when it looked like the current pool of unpaired didn't look good. You didn't. Why should I trust your "strategy" over people like Lea who willingly put herself out there even as town to allow us more flexibility?

Fair enough on FD. If Ulti and Sultan stay shackled together, and I'm advocating to give Chris a night to confirm himself with two separate people, then my PoE is pretty much just Lopen/MZero.

More people seem to be defending MZero at the moment than Lopen. I'm kind of at a loss for direction right now, and probably need a little time to see some other people's reactions.

Ulti, I still want to lynch Sultan here, even if I'm assuming Chris is being truthful. Just sayin'. It's definitely possible that Sultan as scum didn't move last night.

Yeah after Kirby and Lea confirmed date, it would have been very easy for FD to offer a date to Peaf or JC instead of me. I don't know what the timing was before Kirby broke up with Lea because FD was available. Might be worth looking to see if FD even had an opportunity to make another choice.

Lopen, why is FD on your "always town" list? Just general play, or a specific action?

+2 MZero

Lopen posted...

What if Chris is scum Prosty who finds out the role of who he sleeps with and that's why scum blind shot and hit Death

Do you really think scum has Scum Prosty AND Scum Vanilla Scanner? Aren't they serving the exact same purpose?

Sultan I'm going to ask a really dumb question. You may have said it earlier, but I'm just asking you to repeat for my dumb confirmation. You got a host message that you were slept with by a prosty, right?

SirChris posted...

Anyway this game is not fun for me, so I am logging out. Therapy really does help, folks.

Notify me if you need me, and if you want to kill me knock yourselves out. I'll be back in like 24+ hours.

Come back sooner than that (please. I'm not demanding, trying to be charitable and work with you.) and give thoughts on players outside of the Sultan/Chris/Lopen/Dumey/Ulti later. If you're town and we get a confirm from Kirby on that, then I would value your input on players like FD, MZero, and Isquen. I have no idea how to read FD one way or the other this game.

Lopen posted...

Here is the gameplan

Lynch Chris today

Lynch Ulti + Sultan tomorrow

Nah if Chris is saying that his role sends a town confirm message, I'm okay with letting someone like Kirby confirm it. If scum kills Kirby instead of Backup Corrik tomorrow, then we can cross that bridge when we come to it. I still think Sultan is the direction today, and we just need to work with Ulti to try and convince him that it's the play.

Yeah Ulti is still in my PoE. I think it's POSSIBLE that he gambitted hard thinking I would be too cautious on the trigger to dump him.

But he could have stayed silent at the end of day and let Kirby take the Red date, but he specifically called me out to stop delaying it and just save Red.

I'm not confident enough to say it's not Ulti, but I do think people should review end of day there to see that Ulti really was at my mercy and pushing me to dump him.

SirChris posted...

Kirby is informed he is slept with.

Okay my bad. Genuinely didn't remember that was a part of Prosty.

How does you dating Chris prove he's Prosty? If you're vanilla like you said he just says you didn't get up and we say, "duh we already knew that."

I don't know if I'm willing to accept "Sultan didn't move" as some confirmed town read.

1. Chris could be scum and lying.
2. Sultan could have just not moved.

Sultan was under plenty of suspicion yesterday and could have know it would be risky for him to submit a night kill. We have no idea what scum roles are, and assuming it's something that has to move is too much setup meta.

The last time we had heavy setup meta was Corrik assuming there could be no cop or miller in the game and look how that panned out.

I don't want to just dismiss Sultan as an option because he potentially didn't move. This is an experimental game. We have no idea what kind of room mechanics scum could have that doesn't involve them moving at all.

SirChris posted...

Also because some guy called me useless yesterday when I was playing my pr role well

Won't name names tho

hi. still think this btw

SirChris posted...

It's pretty amazing acting like I was ever going to be chopped yesterday lol

Literally only because you had safe haven in Sultan. You probably would have been saved by Red in the end if it came down to it, but you were always an option up until then.

I think we obviously keep talking and wait for everyone to check in before doing anything rash. But I do think it's an option should our night actions not be that game changing.

9v2
Worst case scenario -3 town + -1 town from Night Kill.
5v2
Still one mislynch left.

Better case scenario where we hit one scum.
6v1.
Two mislynches left.

If we go one by one.
7v2
5v2

But two of the dead are outside of the trio of kills that Lopen and I both want to test.

It really just trades a day of night actions and discussion to have one less scum control over the dead. Depends how valuable our night actions are I suppose.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I mean yall we're sheeping the hell outta lopen and he said he didn't want to kill Chris and would rather have Ulti in that spot. I agreed beacuse something didn't feel right with Ulti..

What do you mean sheeping the hell outta lopen. Half the day was Lopen arguing at us to look at the end of D1 with everyone arguing against him that it was a bad direction to go. So we agreed to compromise on Ulti, and then things developed from there.

AT NO POINT DID TOWN COME TO A CONSENSUS THAT WE WEREN'T LYNCHING CHRIS. You came up to that conclusion on your own.

Lopen posted...

Sultan is bugging me enough that I'm willing to 1v2 into him and Chris actually

I can be the bomb Dumey

I'm not sure it's the best play to dive into the only cop scan we have lol, but I'm for it with either you or me. Let me take a second to actually do the numbers so FD can yell at us appropriately later.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Did you just claim scum??

No read it again. He's attacking the same thing I did last night. You said, "we're not killing Chris, so I might as well date him and get info out of it!" but we definitely could have had Chris in the pile if you weren't sheltering him.

Lopen posted...

Isn't that basically just claiming scum with Sultan if I do that and you flip town

Maybe, but I bet you'd like to try and do that and talk your way out of it afterwards rather than guarantee your death.

Plus like you said in response to someone last night, lynching one by one gives scum more control over night kills, rather than taking down the numbers we want.

Lopen posted...

Literally start of chat, and its funny THAT is what you got out of my story

It's not the ONLY thing I got out of it, just wanted to ask Isquen if it was a fair translation of the night.

Lopen posted...

I ended up finally townclearing Ulti due to how he and Dumey were reacting yesterday to end of day

It felt like Dumey was fishing for reasons to not break up and kept asking Ulti "hey bro you sure you'll be ok if we break up" and Ulti is like "yes break up I said that already"

And then Dumey didn't do it in the end without having Ulti to blame for it

Nah this is silly. I still preferred lynching Lea over Ulti, Red, or Kirby. If Kirby hadn't taken the Red date, I would have moved Ulti for it, but there was no need to. I DID genuinely have to do something at end of day that came up with my car. But I literally pulled to the side of the road to check into the topic 10 minutes before deadline to make sure I didn't need to do the swap. But I wasn't swapping claimed Vanilla for claimed Miller Lea at that point.

Lopen posted...

Dumey you still up for this

You can sub me for Chris if you'd like

I would like to go through the numbers a little more closely before settling for this, but yeah. Willing to trade for Sultan and you. The problem is that I think you just try to maneuver me into this setup and link up with Sultan to lynch me at the end. The thing about setting it up with Chris and Sultan was that they couldn't save each other at the end due to dating N2. This is PROBABLY a no go, but I am up for it if we can figure it out.

Lopen posted...

I went into the night letting Isquen share suspicions. He said his reads were currently all the same and that Dumey was his number one suspect.

You frame this as if you started by asking Isquen to share first. But the response that he said "all the same" makes it sound like you started by sharing your reads first, then asked him after.

Isquen, can I just ask if Lopen is charitably sharing this story and that you thought I was a suspect before reading whatever Lopen had to say? This makes it twice now that Lopen has come out of the night saying his partner totally thought I was scum. Could be true that's what happened, but I'm just verifying.

lol, if you're gonna honor Red, you should at least only send it to your town reads, right?

Or maybe you did. You dated JC twice and Lopen none. Easy.

To answer Chris on town reads,

Dumey: I bleed town blood.

JC: I think with the EoD D1 scenario, he easily could have extended a date to both me and Peaf without looking too bad. He did say earlier in D1 how much he agreed with me, so MAYBE he thought it would be too suspicious to date Peaf over me, but I felt like reading end of D1, JC was desperate enough for "any port in a storm" and STILL was picky enough to choose me over Peaf.

Kirby: Similar to JC, largely because of EoD D1. There's like a 5% chance that Kirby was scum with Peaf, and decided that it was too suspicious to take Peaf's gambit and slapped him down. I feel like if he were scum buddies with Peaf, he doesn't just let Peaf die there on a scum team that's already low on numbers. It's possible, but think he's town. Also his anger at Lopen and not immediately taking the Red date when he was in final 3 at end of D2, when it would have been completely reasonable to follow the plan to just lynch Lea. Kirby really feels like Town with no good moves at that position, and is frustrated and paralyzed at what action to take.

Corrik: I don't think he had any reason to do his claim yesterday and make the arguments he did as scum. Very interested to see if he comes in today with a new analysis after seeing that Red was the reason no one claimed Cop when he asked for it.

Isquen: The weakest read of the above. I think Isquen could have taken free dates yesterday like Ulti's. But even at end of day, Isquen was being picky about his date. Maybe there's some scum role that explains this behavior and didn't want to date Vanilla Ulti, but my initial interpretation here is that Isquen was acting in a townie manner. Isquen is maybe bottom of Town/Top of PoE list.

Chris : Inno scan. Possible Godfather, but not willing to pursue it immediately.

Whew, I was worried that Red was gonna come in alive and we were gonna have to untangle all of that. Red lied about his role, maybe to bluff that his chance of hitting scum was lower?, but it doesn't mean that much other than the fact that he scanned Death N1 as well.

I guess with Red's flip, I have to cool my jets on the Chris angle, though I still think Sultan is my top suspect coming in to today.

My ending read to Ulti earlier today was:
So going into D3, my thoughts are
Town: Dumey, JC, Corrik, Kirby, Isquen, Red (?), Chris(?)
POE: FD, MZero, Ulti, Lopen
Scum: Sultan

The ? on Red and Chris were dependent on Red actually flipping today.

God I had something come up at last minute, but I made sure to be back in time if I needed to shake things up.

I hate this meta of all the players literally only popping up at deadline to talk and try to do things. We should just have shorter days if that's how we're gonna play.

Yeah would really appreciate Red responding to any of Corriks posts now.

Wow thanks for contributing chris.