Lurker > Hornezz

Horrifying images.

I wonder whether this is related to what the US embassy warned about earlier this month.

From what I've been told, there are exemptions from fasting for young children, pregnant women, the sick and elderly etc.

'Magic truffles'. Which is less potent than magic mushrooms but tastes even worse.

...the mushrooms are a close second place though.

Russia and China veto US resolution calling for immediate cease-fire in Gaza

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-security-council-fails-pass-us-resolution-calling-immediate-ceasefire-gaza-2024-03-22/
https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-us-vote-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-f6453803b3eacc9fbaa2ce5a025e2a94

s0nicfan posted...

Or are we playing this game where it's technically true when he said that the hospital hadn't been used for military purposes even though he had explicitly seen Hamas bring in injured Israeli hostages?

Attacking hospitals is prohibited under international humanitarian law. That protection is only lifted under strict circumstances, and even then there are rules to safeguard patients and staff:

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-19/commentary/1958?activeTab=1949GCs-APs-and-commentaries

The hostages being there a month prior to the raid is not a valid justification to attack a hospital. Israel has not provided convincing evidence that the hospital was operating beyond their humanitarian duties.

Let's not forget the IDF has spread manipulated information regarding the Al-Shifa raid before, even besides the Israeli built bunker mentioned. Taking their claims at face value, without third party fact checking, is just irresponsible.

IDF placed weapons prior to the Al-Shifa media tour:
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-18-23/h_1d70c190adde686e6a2b59e963499e82
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlBtJhI1fIw

IDF spokesman Hagari pointing at a calendar in Al-Shifa, falsely claiming it was a list of terrorist names:
(edit: my bad, this was a different hospital, not al-shifa)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-blames-translation-error-for-claiming-calendar-in-children-s-hospital-was-list-of-hamas-hostage-guards/ar-AA1jVEoO

s0nicfan posted...

So again, we went from "haha there are no tunnels" to "well of course there are tunnels, but what about this other thing we didn't bring up before?"

The existence of underground structures under Al-Shifa wasn't in doubt, so this is a strawman. They were dug by Israel in the 1980's. Here's the former Israeli PM saying so:

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-20-23/h_91e66ecbf3286b946f264a3b8016c37e

s0nicfan posted...

As for the article you yourself provided, it acknowledges that there was a connection from the hospital to the tunnels but only in one surgery center.

Highly selective quoting. It's not an access point from the hospital to the underground bunker, it's the bunker tapping electricity and water from the hospital. Calling this a 'connection' as a justification for a military siege on a hospital is quite the stretch.

s0nicfan posted...

Everyone stopped talking about it when they found the tunnels and then took the media on a tour of what they found:

About that media tour:

But the evidence presented by the Israeli government falls short of showing that Hamas had been using the hospital as a command and control center, according to a Washington Post analysis of open-source visuals, satellite imagery and all of the publicly released IDF materials.

The Posts analysis shows:
- The rooms connected to the tunnel network discovered by IDF troops showed no immediate evidence of military use by Hamas.
- None of the five hospital buildings identified by Hagari appeared to be connected to the tunnel network.
- There is no evidence that the tunnels could be accessed from inside hospital wards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/

emblem-man posted...

Hasn't the stance always been for a ceasefire over the last few months? They've been working on that the whole time.
The in resolutions have failed due to bad political reasoning regarding language of the resolution, but the actual work behind the scenes has always been towards a pause in fighting.

The reason the previous ones failed was because the US vetoed them.

This is the first time the US calls for a sustained ceasefire in the UN, previously they only supported temporary humanitarian pauses at most. The shift in tone happened around a month ago. It's still just diplomatic pressure but it's more than the "expresses concerns" we've had up until now.

emblem-man posted...

Adamant what would never happen exactly?

The US changing its stance.

EU and US pile on pressure for Gaza ceasefire

EU leaders have overcome their differences to call for an immediate humanitarian pause leading to a sustainable ceasefire in Gaza, hours before the US is expected to bring a resolution to a vote at the UN calling for a truce and a hostage deal without delay in the face of a looming famine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/21/eu-and-us-pile-on-pressure-for-gaza-ceasefire

There's a clear shift in tone happening in the west. Just a few weeks ago people here were adamant this would never happen, and that anyone demanding this was a delusional Biden-hater.

Canada ceases future export of weapons to Israel

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/trudeau-government-will-stop-sending-arms-to-israel-foreign
-affairs-minister-m-lanie-joly-says/article_da41c41c-e60e-11ee-8cb4-874d0836cd34.html

emblem-man posted...

So I know we're selling them bombs and things for their iron dome. I didn't think we were selling them infantry weapons as well. I'd think they have those already. Which, if it's mostly a ground battle at this point, would be the main thing right?

Air strikes are still ongoing. 12 people were killed in one in Deir al-Balah last night.

Yeah, you can't have people walking into the school threatening kids with violence.

The charges do seem excessive though. Should've just been escorted off the premises.

This is a CE topic alright

Seems like an easy lawsuit waiting to happen.

Were these three movies even officially announced?

Zwijn posted...

DENK isnt left wing, at least in my book.

They are though. They're religious-conservative but economically they're social democrats. It's a split-off from PvdA.

It's obvious that Denk has anti-LGBT views but there's no reason to believe that's what made people vote PVV. SGP has been saying the same shit for a lot longer. Omtzigt has made some blatant transphobic comments and his party shot to popularity.

Plus it's not like Wilders is a champion of LGBT rights. He'll only mention them when used as a weapon against muslims. In the same vein as conservatives in the US going 'but what about our homeless' as an argument against immigration - and then proceeding to not give a damn about homelessness anyway. The PVV party program complains about 'gender lunacy' and 'diversity nonsense'.

---

What brought PVV the win is largely on VVD. They collapsed the previous government on the issue of asylum, signaling they wanted to take a hard right turn. And then Yesilgoz gave Wilders some legitimacy back by saying she's willing to work with him after most relevant parties had boycotted him since 2012.

PVV's new voters mostly came from other far right parties, and from the hard-right factions within VVD and CDA, who rallied behind him when they were handed the opportunity. It wasn't muslims and it wasn't people concerned about LGBT rights. These people were never going to vote for PvdA/GL.

Zwijn posted...

I have said multiple times that they didnt vote for Wilders

Zwijn posted...

and whose base has now partly voted for Wilders and even Baudet?

Hmm.

Zwijn posted...

Ive said multiple times that if those people voted for the parties that actually cared about them Wilders would have less of a leg to stand on. PVDA could have been much bigger.

Prove it.

Dutch muslims largely vote left wing parties. Even if all Denk voters voted PvdA, Wilders would have still won by a large margin and the overall landscape wouldn't change a thing. The math just doesn't support your claims.

Zwijn posted...

Sure thing bro, not like DENK actively participated to this with making anti-LGBT commercials and driving their base away from the left wing parties.

Prove your claim that it was muslims who got Wilders the win.

The NOS and Nu articles I posted before state that about half of muslims voted DENK, with the rest of them mostly divided among other left wing parties.

In this article you'll read that PVV mostly picked up voters from: VVD, non-voters, FVD, JA21 and CDA. In that order, all right wing parties. The amount of new voters coming from left are insignificant compared to those:

https://nos.nl/collectie/13958/artikel/2498911-20-zetels-erbij-voor-de-pvv-waar-komen-die-stemmers-vandaan

Zwijn posted...

All those people voting PVDA apparently wouldnt have given them more seats eh? Guess politics work differently in your dimension.

PvdA/GL literally grew by nearly 50% compared to the previous election, they went from 17 (combined) seats to 25.

You're just talking nonsense.

Zwijn posted...

Im saying theyre one of the reasons he won

Which is a lie.

Zwijn posted...

Then the news helped spread this nonsense

Right wing news. Which you repeated without questioning it.

I mean the man literally wants to ban mosques and the Quran, and this claim didn't ring you as suspicious.

since they literally showed some people saying they voted for him. It being unpopular also doesnt mean they didnt do it at all,

A completely insignificant amount, not worth mentioning. I reacted because this isn't the first time you spread this misinformation. Even going as far as to say Wilders won the election because of muslims:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/388f6e7b.png

So kindly fuck off accusing me of creating a straw man.

Zwijn posted...

whose base has now partly voted for Wilders and even Baudet?

I've seen you post this before and it's blatantly bullshit. It was Wilders himself on election night who made the claim that many muslims voted for him, and right wing media (and you) took his word for it without any evidence.

It's not true. Tons of polls show that PVV is one of the least popular parties among muslims and non-Western immigrants.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/11/29/verkiezingen-de-pvv-moslim-is-gebaseerd-op-wensdenken-a4182625
https://nos.nl/collectie/13958/artikel/2499884-geen-aanwijzingen-dat-veel-moslims-op-de-pvv-hebben-gestemd
https://www.nu.nl/formatie-2023/6292199/moslims-stemmen-volgens-politicoloog-helemaal-niet-massaal-op-de-pvv.html

This lie has the same intention behind it as all those "as a gay black man I agree with Trump" posts we've seen over the internet in the past 8 years.

Israel abused Gaza war detainees, UN report alleges

They include being stripped and beaten, being forced into cages and attacked by dogs, forced into stress positions for extended periods, and subjected to "blunt force trauma" including the butts of guns and boots, resulting in some cases in "broken ribs, separated shoulders and lasting injuries".

It says both men and women reported "threats and incidents of sexual violence and harassment" including inappropriate touching of women and beatings to men's genitals.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68514816

thronedfire2 posted...

Trump would be far, far worse

Zonbei posted...

Trump is worse.

Stop pretending that a Trump reelection is the only alternative to Biden's support for Israel. It's not true.

Any argument that's a threat of another Trump presidency can only be valid if you can prove that sending more bombs to Israel is necessary for Biden to win the election in the first place. And you can't. In fact it's likely costing him voters.

There are plenty of options for Biden to use his powers to make a change.

• He can threaten to stop diplomatic cover in the UN.
• He can threaten to withhold arms sales.
• He can place conditions on further financial aid.

It has been done before, including with Israel. And those examples are just ways to actively stop supporting Israel, there's also a plethora of sanctions that can be imposed.

Plugging your ears and insisting 'nothing can be done, bombs must be sent, or Trump wins' is not based in any sort of reality. This Trump-whataboutism is just a hollow way to shut down criticism.

Zonbei posted...

some of us just understand that its largely the republicans who are at fault,

Contrary to what some people might have told you, there's actually a Democrat in the White House right now.

It was Biden's administration that lifted restrictions on Israeli access to US arms:
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/

It was Biden's administration that sold tens of thousands of weapons, bypassing Congress and avoiding public disclosure:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-us-arms-pipeline-to-israel-avoids-public-disclosure/ar-BB1jsepL

Acting as if he doesn't have the power to not do these things is blatantly false.

thronedfire2 posted...

ok but that doesnt mean all those people arent going to vote for him because of it when Trump would be far, far worse

Pointing out that A is better than B doesn't mean A is acceptable or not worth resisting.

Especially younger and non-white Dem voters disapprove of Biden's handling so far, the demographics who are more likely to stay home. Telling such a significant part of the base to 'just fall in line and accept that more bombs will be sent ...or else Trump' isn't exactly the inspiring campaign message that gets the kids out to vote.

emblem-man posted...

Do many of you think there is risk of Biden losing votes by removing Israel funding and aid? Do you think he loses less than he gains? More than he gains?

One of the more recent polls (released last week):
https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/

This has a decent overview of sentiment polls over the last few months:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

Breaking Bad 2: Breaking Worse

There is more to it. He's also a narcissistic asshole.

Zonbei posted...

I wish people would stop bringing up a precedent from what is essentially a different world. You know how long ago that was, yeah?

I wish people would stop pretending like the unconditional support for Israel, including sending thousands of bombs and missiles, is some irreversible law of nature rather than a choice made by politicians.

FolkenRawr posted...

Not to mention referencing Reagan in literally any level of good.

Withholding weapon sales to deescalate violence is a good thing, yes.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Don't underestimate the level of leverage the US has over Israel. On diplomatic, financial and military levels.

"Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Plus there is precedent in the past when Reagan and Bush Sr. have successfully threatened to withhold arms and financial aid to Israel to pressure them.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a0ee60e6.jpg

Thing is, people are actually arguing like this. Except without the obvious sarcasm.

Pope should have the courage to stfu

Zonbei posted...

The fact you think that would stop the genocide is certainly a thing you think for some reason.

Thats an extraordinary number of sales over the course of a pretty short amount of time, which really strongly suggests that the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support, said Jeremy Konyndyk, a former senior Biden administration official and current president of Refugees International.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Solar_Crimson posted...

Hell, James Marsters went on to voice Zamasu in Super--completely free of charge--as an apology for his role in the film.

Huh, never knew that. Might watch the dub just for that lol

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/dc0807d2.jpg

It's this part.

Photographer probably stitched multiple shots together and messed up. You'd think they'd have multiple editors go over this

Loved Peacemaker and happy it's continuing but it'll be interesting to see if keeping (parts of) the DCEU brand alive is going to hurt the new reboot. The brand has been box office poison to the point where movies that were well received like Blue Beetle still bombed.

bfslick50 posted...

If Trump wins, how can things improve? Stop dodging the question.

I told you: hypotheticals of a Trump win are nonsensical as long as Biden's stance on Israel isn't a necessity for a win. You agreed it wasn't. I'm not participating in what if scenario's that have nothing to do with my position on Gaza.

You should join in putting pressure on Biden. Not only is him no longer aiding in a massacre the morally right thing to do, he can win back the people who currently feel unheard and disenfranchised by his handling of the issue - and increase his chance of winning.

bfslick50 posted...

Wouldn't, he should pivot now.

Cool, we're in agreement. Now it's up to Biden to listen to his voterbase and ensure the win.

havean776 posted...

Why do you think he and every previous President in your lifetime has supported Israel. No really take a minuite and actually think.

Your question is based on a false premise. Ronald Reagan used the shipment of F16 as leverage to make Israel stand down in Lebanon. Bush Sr. threatened to withhold financial aid to pressure Israel towards peace talks. Biden can do so too.

bfslick50 posted...

If Biden loses,

Why would Biden pivoting on Israel make him lose the election?

Making up these hypothetical scenarios of a Trump win are meaningless without answering that question. I've asked this a ton of times and nobody answers it, yet so many treat it like an undeniable fact.

bfslick50 posted...

The individual Congressional representatives are less vital and they collectively have power over Biden. Pressure them to pressure Biden is the way to get Palestine help now.

Pressure all of them. The protestors aren't demanding absolute perfection. Asking your government to stop actively supporting a massacre is not an unreasonable demand.

bfslick50 posted...

You literally said they should wait 4 years and 8 months for a possible Democrat supermajority. If you need to act now then why are you advocating for 4 more years of waiting?

Where did I say anything about waiting 4 years, what in the world are you even talking about?

bfslick50 posted...

Bidens handling of Gaza sucks. Right now our best way to help Palestinians is to vote in a progressive Congress to push Biden on this issue.

The election is 8 months away, the best way to help Palestinians is to push those with power for a change NOW.

Now how does Biden losing result in things being better for Palestinians? Still waiting for this step in the logic to not be skipped over. What about Biden losing can bring about better circumstances?

Straight back to the repeating the false dilemma. Biden taking a stronger stance against the human right violations in Gaza will NOT make him lose the election.

If anything, a case for the opposite can be made: especially young and non-white democrats disapprove of his handling of Gaza so far (aka the part of voters more likely to stay home). Half of dem voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Yet Biden is sending them bombs to help.

Stop pretending that 'Biden must send bombs' or 'Trump wins' are the only options. There is no truth to it.

Still waiting for someone to explain why sending bombs to Israel is required for Biden to win the election. Remember that Biden's handling of Gaza has been met with disapproval.

A lot of you eagerly threaten with whatever Trump would do but skip over this step in the logic.

Always have been

havean776 posted...

Do you believe witholding a vote from Biden is helping them? It is purely out of msugness.

I believe it's a false dilemma to suggest that Biden unconditionally sending weapons to Israel and Trump winning the election are the only options.

There are many steps that Biden can take to use his leverage to deescalate the situation. And considering the sheer amount of death and suffering, I think it's worth pushing for.

I've seen no evidence whatsoever that continuing to send weapons is an absolute necessity in order for him to win the election. If you cannot prove that, any amount of 'but what would Trump do' is meaningless and serves only as a disingenuous way to silence criticism.

havean776 posted...

Good thing I'm not choosing betweeen that. I'm choosing between defending my friends right to live. I know you think that them being arrested for being born differen't is a small price to pay for you to feel morally superiour but I don't want to sacrafice them for the feeling of smugness.

Do you honestly believe that people are protesting America's involvement in Gaza just out of smugness? The idea of people having genuine moral issues with their government facilitating the bombing thousands of children is something outright unbelievable to you?