Lurker > hockeybub89

Doe posted...

Case in point.

And maybe they will alter their platform. Still have to make sure the Democrats win regardless. You're not taking me down with you.

Doe posted...

They genuinely believe Arab Americans owe Biden a vote, no matter what, as long as Trump is as bad or worse. That there is no onus or expectation of the Democratic party to do right by them.

You don't owe Biden or the Democrats a vote. You owe yourself and everyone else a fighting chance.

"Voting to get punched in the genitals is stupid and the genital-punching party isn't learning. Maybe I'll let the get-thrown-off-a-cliff party win. That'll will teach those genital punchers a lesson. Wait why is there a cliff? Ahhhhhhhhhh!"

VFalcone posted...

All of you just proved my point in record time though. If I were a Muslim who has explicitly decided I don't want to vote for Biden right now because he essentially supports the murder of thousands of my fellow Muslims (keep in mind that I already refuse to vote Trump), no one has given me any reason to actually forgive Biden and VOTE for him instead of just not voting at all.

Because not voting for Biden is voting for Trump and that will make your life worse. I hate Biden too, but he has to win. I'm not burning down the country and ruining everyone's life just because I hate Biden.

It doesn't matter whether we like it or not, we have to vote for survival.

Doe posted...

The people ITT think minorities should ask for nothing and be grateful Democrats aren't as openly racist as Republicans. The idea that voicing disapproval with the Dems now could encourage Dems to alter their platform before their election makes no sense to them. Either because they view that as ungrateful/irrational, or take it for granted that the Dems will never change, therefore Arab Americans are just making them look bad by disapproving.

One wonders how minorities ever won any rights in the history of the United States

And allowing the openly racist and worse party to win will improve your life more... how?

Doe posted...

The people ITT think minorities should ask for nothing and be grateful Democrats aren't as openly racist as Republicans. The idea that voicing disapproval with the Dems now could encourage Dems to alter their platform before their election makes no sense to them. Either because they view that as ungrateful/irrational, or take it for granted that the Dems will never change, therefore Arab Americans are just making them look bad by disapproving.

One wonders how minorities ever won any rights in the history of the United States

Trump wins and we're all fucked, but destroying everyone's life forever is worth teaching Joe Biden a lesson! Surely the white supremacists who cheer on Israel winning to trigger the end times will be better for Muslim Americans!

VFalcone posted...

Instead of yelling at Muslim voters about how bad Trump could be, Democrats should be reaching out to them giving them reasons why they should vote blue instead. This whole topic has been talking about how scary it would be to vote for Trump without actually giving any perks for voting for Biden.

Put yourself in a Muslim's shoes. Simply not voting Trump isn't a vote for Biden, it only empowers Trump. If Muslims don't want to vote Democrat/Biden because pro-Israel, Democrats need to make them want to vote for Democrats, and to do that, they need to convince those voters that Biden is the right one for them specifically.

For Muslims, "vote blue no matter who" and "Trump is worse" offers no incentives for them specifically. They'd just not vote at all.

I don't think Biden is doing enough for anyone. I don't think he is doing enough to protect LGBTQ people. But the alternative is Trump and a Republican takeover, so I am obligated to vote for Biden and I would tell any other LGBTQ person that they have to do the same.

You know, unless you're prepared to flee the country or fight back when the party you let win does what they promised to do.

This is the unfortunate reality. It doesn't matter who we want to vote for or not vote for. Wishing we could enthusiastically vote for someone we like isn't going to will it into existence by 2024.

Bob Dylan says the word in "Hurricane"

The word is also said in "Los Angeles" by X, which is even included in GTA V.

Because radicalism is true conservativism.

Democrats get angry and appalled when progressives, leftists, whatever start encroaching on their turf and close ranks

Republicans get literal extremists and white supremacists and embrace them every step closer to extremism. Individual may have some critiques, but as they're all pushing "Christian, common sense values" they'll always back each other. Any who step out of line are branded RINOs and ejected from office.

Tora_Sami posted...

WTF! I can continue my game from the demo! This is a first ever! Holy shit hell yeah!

FF16 did it too. I hope that trend continues.

Tyranthraxus posted...

So like I said before then, cut them off completely and we can come back when the ashes are cold. As long as we're not the ones pulling the lever on the tracks, our conscience is clean, right?

Israel is being run by an evil government. They are the bad guys. Should we give every despotic government billions in aid because it's our duty to keep things peaceful? What is the difference between funding Israel and funding Russia?

Neoconkers posted...

2024: I know the democrats openly supported the ethnic cleansing of your relatives, but the republicans can't win!

2028: I know the democrats are still openly antagonising you and haven't helped any of your problems, but the republicans can't win!

2032: stop holding democrats to account for their actions! do you want the republicans to win???

this is the whole "it's her turn" entitled bullshit campaign that lost clinton the 2016 election, ignoring blocks of voters because "well they need to vote for us because the alternative is worse, we can ignore them this cycle"

But the alternative is worse, so honestly our feelings are fucking irrelevant!

"I don't want the Democrat to win because America will support Israel and continue bombing the Middle East!"

You know, the few things with bipartisan support in our government. Surely the party that vows to commit genocides and destroy rights will be the solution! Surely the party that feels Israel has a divine right to the Holy Land will support Palestinian non-Jews! Is there a single fucking Republican in office that has even expressed "thoughts and prayers" for Palestine?

But yes, let's be short-sighted idiots and let things get far fucking worse.

I was so anti-meta when I played Call of Duty that randos would get legitimately mad if I killed them lol

Baha05 posted...

If you want to ignore the issue of a tip up front.

Delivery app tips are not tips at all. It's more like bidding on a contract. Money promised up front is not something unique to food delivery. And remember: DoorDash generally gives refunds with no questions asked.

"Here's your $20 bill. Tips are generally 15-20%" = "How dare you! I'm not spending my money to pay your employees!"

"Here's your $30 bill. Gratuity is built in automatically." = "Here is my money, good sir. Thank you for the meal!"

It's like the problem is neither cost nor paying employees. It's something being optional, but expected that pisses people off.

Rika_Furude posted...

Hes already been saying that its not the only thing that can be done to bad customers. Again I dont respect what pro-tip slurpers have to say because it was pro-tip culture that got workers into the underpaid hellhole they are working in now.

a forced gratuity is literally called paying for your item and paying for your service. Paying employees is called a wage or salary.

So if an extra $5 gratuity was tacked onto your bill, it's fine, but if it's a non-mandatory tip, it's horrible? And technically, you're paying someone's wages any time you go out, especially if it's a smaller business. Why is ok for them to require your money, but not for them to ask for it?

Again, some people in America currently work for tips. Until that changes, the moral thing is to help out the workers because they will be the only ones getting punished until things change. It's not going to happen overnight. I don't see how non-tipping is any different than other poor customer behavior that isn't literally illegal.

For example, in pharmacy, you may as a patient endure long lines or errors. You didn't create the mess, but neither did the worker. Taking out your frustration on them is your fault and will not actually fix the problem. All it is going to do is hurt the pharmacists and technicians, who have enough to stress over without you adding to the pile. You're not absolved because "Well their bosses created the scenario, so they take it up with them if they don't like me yelling at them!" You can be part of the problem without being the bulk of the problem.

And I specifically said I am against workers committing crimes to get back at people. There are plenty of non-criminal ways to make a point.

RyukSan posted...

Ignoring your social construct that more in America don't support andor follow than you care to realize.

I don't use the likes of Dash or Uber because their prices are insane to begin with. Like you do know even entertaining your argument for a split second, eating at resteraunts dont all have you tipping before you get the meal right? So your argument wouldn't actually apply to me.

So your question really serves no purpose.

Just make sure to never return to the restaurants after pissing all over the heads of the employees and you'll be fine. Though I don't know if your lack of morals, emotions, and social awareness will allow to comprehend why you should remember that.

Sexypwnstar posted...

You only tip $3 on a $20 order? Now that's fucking scummy

That's 15%. I'd probably add a dollar personally.

Antifar posted...

A poll is not an election. You can make the moral calculus lesser evil arguments when it comes to entering a voting booth, but we're a year away from anyone doing that. When asked if they approve of the job being done by the guy currently abetting genocide, should Americans of any ethnicity say yes?

There were specific arguments about voting though. Biden has to win even if 99% of us disapprove of him for this and anything else. And honestly, that pisses me off, but it's the unfortunate reality.

Doe posted...

Riiight. So how much does Biden want to win that election vs how much does he want to continue enabling an ethnic cleansing. Sounds like a hard choice.

Guess we better let the side that thinks that ethnic cleansing is required to bring Jesus back win then! Dooming hundreds of millions of Americans alongside the Gazans surely is the solution!

Doe posted...

To frame this that the Dems can only learn or respond after the 2024 election is not reflective of reality. A voting bloc can tell the Dems that their vote relies on satisfying what they want, and that can happen right now. The Dems hear these voices, and it's up to them whether to learn right now or prefer to continue enabling an ethnic cleansing and then also potentially lose the election.

Well there won't be an election after 2024 if Biden loses because people who support Israel even harder and openly hate Muslims and want them deported have promised to kill democracy when Trump wins.

RyukSan posted...

This has been addressed before as well that not everyone is on a mission to change a system they don't agree with.

Not everyone agrees its a customers moral obligation or duty to change tipping culture.

You can disagree with a system, no obligation to participate in a non required system of tipping, while not bothering to try to change a system.

Non-sociopaths don't need to be obligated to follow social contracts and have basic human empathy.

But ok, not everyone values the same things. So you can understand people will not value your patronage very highly and treat you accordingly. Workers do not want to deal with sovereign citizen-type customers. What are you gonna do? Give them 1 star on Yelp? Sue?

Rika_Furude posted...

Good. Thats called paying your employees and the first world did that centuries ago. Dunno why America needs to be dragged kicking and screaming

Then go someone where there are no Americans so you don't need to see our bullshit. Nobody in this fucking topic has been defending the corporations, but change takes time.

Ruining innocent people lives even harder until we systematically change America's economic system is not a solution.

Until that happens, tipping is morally obligated and workers have every right to file non-tippers right alongside every other bad customer. They deal with enough bullshit from their employers without taking it from customers too.

We need to help each other because no one else will. Clearly that is lost on "Where is that written down?" types.

RyukSan posted...

Expecting those who don't want to tip, to not eat at a resteraunt is not how things actually work.

If people hate these greedy businesses and want them to change, boycotting will hurt them far more than not tipping people that don't make the rules. If you don't abide by the social contracts of society or that establishment, then expect subpar service. What are you gonna do? Not tip them harder?

cjsdowg posted...

Or you could not vote .

Surely that will make America stop supporting Israel

America loves to fund Israel. You can either vote for that or vote for the guy that will tack deportations and stochastic terrorism on top of it.

Doe posted...

Their world is ending right fucking now. Instead of doing nothing but putting moral judgments on the people your party is hurting for not helping you, maybe you should try to actually negotiate for their vote, such as getting your party to stop funding Israel's mass killings and genocidal rhetoric.

I am not registered with a party, but there are only two votes that matter and Biden has to win unfortunately. Trump would not be an improvement for them. We can continue shitting on Biden before, during, and after his reelection.

pikachupwnage posted...

.fucking hell they are counting every death in Gaza as a terrorist in that count 100%. Absolutely credible zero sources have claimed anywhere near 9000 Hamas deaths. Civilian deaths however are pretty close to that number

Fucking abhorrent.

That graphic is sad that they had to refer to the injured as "Palestinians". Fuck the Israeli government.

Doe posted...

or an independent, or not vote top of the ticket?

Like do you not see how tepid it is to say "well Trump hates Arabs" when Biden has pledged unconditional support for Israel's mass killings while actively denying the numbers for killed Palestinians and being silent on the plight of Palestinian-Americans or their families?

Arab Americans absolutely have the right to withhold their vote to Biden unless he gets his fucking act together. You don't get to shame a oppressed minority for not participating in politics when the realistic choices are Blatantly Racist Candidate (R) vs Functionally Racist Candidate (D). If you want their vote, give them something to vote for.

As an oppressed minority, I think I may continue shaming people for not participating in politics. Only two votes matter and one will end the world.

itachi15243 posted...

Ah yes, time to disguise hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of drugs as candy to hand out to trick or treaters, and give away for free.

This will surely make any drug dealer or addict rich, somehow.

"They'll make all the money back when all the kids become customers for life!"

Doe posted...

It's fucking crazy on Twitter what 'liberals' are posting on the Arab Americans hashtag, total lack of self awareness or empathy, calling it 'evil' if someone declines to vote for Biden as he sends billions to a country massacring their relatives

Who are they gonna vote for? Trump?

Rika_Furude posted...

If they already paid all the fees they are the opposite of a bad customer

That is what bad customers think too.

Rika_Furude posted...

How is that different from spitting in their food?

It's harder to hide.

But seriously, I don't believe in committing crimes in retaliation. There are plenty of other ways to deal with bad customers.

Rika_Furude posted...

What if a delivery driver doesnt get a tip, and instead once they get to the customers house they light a trash can on fire or smash all the customers windows? Still the customers fault for ordering some food right?

I believe that would mean they overreacted to a shitty customer and committed several crimes.

the_rowan posted...

Yes. Yes I am. Fucking quote me on it. You do not get to be a pathetic naive child with absolutely no stakes on the issue but to whine about "how DARE a nation attack a bunch of terrorists hell-bent on total genocide that kill thousands of people unendingly and kill CIVIILIANS on the way1!11!!" (that said terrorists are intentionally setting up to die). The only way to improve the situation is to hit Hamas so hard into the ground that they cease to function, not play wishy-washy games of ethics so we can play this all out again in a year or two.

Why do you support Israeli terrorism then. If America was actually a good place, we would have told both sides to go fuck themselves. I'm sorry you're incapable of comprehending a war where there are no good guys.

R_Jackal posted...

Most people know that deep down, but hearing a commercial for ED and the side effects are death and horribly debilitating conditions doesn't breed confidence, I would say.

Which I guess is another mark against the advertising. But I guess scaring people with "Side effects may include death" is a small price they pay for making disgusting amounts of money in advertising.

Yo_D_oY posted...

No thanks. Delivery apps can charge me more and then I can determine if it's still worth it. Tip culture is a joke.

So fuck the companies for tip culture, but you'll still pay their nonsensical service fees and artificially inflated cost of goods?

Foppe posted...

My emphathy is that my country have taken the fight, and won.
Our workers have a salary that they can live on.
Tipping does not exist.
No food chain got destroyed by it, and food is affordable at a higher quality.
We paid a big price for it many generations ago, but at least you got laws that should prevent your workers from being killed.

Did your country change it by everyone just deciding to not tip one day? If not, then how the hell do you think it would work in America?

Foppe posted...

Which wont happen because of the tipping brainwashing.

How the fuck do you think not tipping innocent people is going to convince the companies to change? They don't give a shit. Not tipping is akin to changing your social media avatar to a flag, just the most token useless activism. You couldn't make less of an effort. This is why no one believes people refuse to tip out of some desire to fix society.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

You love putting words in people's mouths and accusing them of things they did not say. You're a bundle of negative energy and just want to pick a fight all day.

Not tipping is no different than ignoring any other social contract and abusing an employee because "Treating you like a human and following the Golden rule is a suggestion, not a mandate." People were acting like workers can't get mad at customers because their employer is the one fucking them over in the first place. Normal people with feelings and dignity are going to be mad at both those customers AND their employer.

eggcorn posted...

If you're pro tip culture you're just not capable of seeing a bigger picture.

I'm just pro tipping until we change society to where there is no need. Not tipping isn't going to eliminate tipping. It's just going to get people fired.

Mr_Karate_II posted...

There's multiple reasons why someone might not be able to get it themselves, they might not be able to drive or are disabled and have no way to go get the food or go the store or they might only have enough to cover the food and the fees. There's many reasons why someone can't go get it themselves or can't tip.

Don't assume people are just lazy

Damn he assumed people were lazy when 5% actually have good reasons. Bet he feels dumb now.

Foppe posted...

...not having the customers pay your salary is abuse now?
The brainwashing is deep in this one.

You people just don't have any empathy and don't actually give a single fuck about changing the world. You just want to stop tipping. Once you don't have an expected 15% gratuity, the endless suffering of service workers will disappear out of your heads. People can't boycott DoorDash or Olive Garden or whoever outright because reasons, but they can boycott tips! "I'll overpay you for restaurant food and other luxuries that you artificially raise prices on, but I'm not going to give your employees tips! I have to spend money on unneccessary bullshit, but tips go against my principles!" Shit, I wish more of money went directly to paying those workers. At least they deserve it.

WingsOfGood posted...

You whine about customers

Nothing changes

Inflation goes up you make less money

What have you done?

Meanwhile autoworkers got huge increases due to strikes

Hmmm

What I do is work in a non-union field where people are trying to strike not for money, but for help. What I did is join in a mass quit. And you know what changed at that place after I left? Nothing! Things got worse!

"I tip, but also tipping is bad and hurts workers and the workers are kind of asking for it since they refuse to strike, without a union, in industries where they are viewed as expendable cattle"

@WingsofGood

WingsOfGood posted...

Ok? You might not but someone else does

The response is to villify the inevitable?

That is ignorant

You cry about your true enemy the employer

Anyone who has, you know, worked around people can definitely tell you that customers can be the enemy too. They don't have to be Public Enemy #1 to still be an enemy.

HashtagSEP posted...

Imagine trying to argue that you should be able to not tip for DoorDash. Somebody is going to get your food for you because your cheap ass is too lazy to go get it yourself, and youre going to complain about being asked to tip?

Well they can't stop using DoorDash just because it's a money-grubbing evil corporation that expects them to pay the employees' wages! Best they can do is not tip and say it's for everyone's own good.

WingsOfGood posted...

Tipping enables corporate greed fyi.

They should pay drivers more and don't because the tip is an excuse.

But if you ignorantly blame the customer then you will never get anywhere.

I'm sure the corporation you paid $20 to for a meal will realize the error of their ways because you refuse $3 to an innocent worker.

Punishing the worker will not tear down the system. You must continue to tip everyone while fighting to change the system by targeting those responsible. We can't let anyone innocent suffer in the interim.

You want to hurt the corporations, then don't give them any money at all. Protest at their corporate offices. Picket business entrances.

RyukSan posted...

That's a massive gymnastics you went through with this one.

What I said has absolutely nothing to do with cussing workers out or whatever other gymnastics you are going through to tie in irrelevant things.

Not tipping is no different than any other worker abuse by customers that is legally acceptable, but not morally acceptable. And any worker with the tiniest bit of self-respect isn't go to take it because "Well I chose to work here and it's really my boss' fault!"

You'd want tip money if you were stuck in that position. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the Golden Rule.

WingsOfGood posted...

Maybe ask your boss to pay fair wages instead of gripe on customers

"Capitalism bad! Corporations bad!"

*happily gives as much money as required to corporations, balks at tips*