Lurker > KanzarisKelshen

DeathChicken posted...

Okay, so since I'm not familiar with the Brights, how would they react to a bullet time gunman who has a laser that will hit both of them at once? And also has enough melee skill to dropkick armored super soldiers and make them die

With regards to this, the answer is probably the same way they deal with the apocalyptic lasers they've faced - use cover, use misdirection, and use magic to make them soakable.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Even if the Brights can survive Point Man's attacks without being instagibbed, I don't see how they have the damage output required to win this. This just seems like a major mismatch in favor of The Point Man.

Point Man isn't that tanky. He dies to a few bullets in gameplay. If you want context on the explosion, here you go:



And re: how do they deal with someone that fast, you can see in the link above how Joshua can move so fast he appears to be in eight places at once (he can do this consistently - one of his techniques involves making tangible clones via speed). In addition, as mentioned above, they have a guaranteed nosell of Point Man's first two attacks, each. They also have speed buffs AND debuffs to counter him with, too.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

DeathChicken posted...

Ooh, he gets FEAR 3 weapons too? Then off the top of my head, add the Arc Laser (a beam that ricochets between targets after you hit one, so he can hit multiple people at once without having to aim), a handgun that shoots knockout drugs, and a guided rocket launcher

Yeah I'm giving Josh and Estelle feats from their guest appearances (if they have anything in Trails of Cold Steel?) so I figured it was only fair to make Point Man current too
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

And a summary of the Point Man from DeathChicken, as he knows the FEAR games very well, to match.

So Point Man. I'll spare everyone a wall of text and hit the neat bits about this guy.

http://fear.wikia.com/wiki/Point_Man

- In a nutshell, he's a psionically enhanced super soldier with crazyass reflexes: in game terms, it means he has bullet time on demand that slows everything to a crawl and makes people in his immediate area wail "He's too fast" while he lazily dodges around their bullets and messily kills them

- In terms of plot, he solos over 500 enemies in the span of the first game. We know this because it's a story point that he goes in against a battalion of 1000 Replica troops (basically engineered lab soldiers programmed with all the military training evil science could provide), by the end of it, a little over half of that number were dead because of Point Man

- His mom is a reality warping Sadako-looking girl who can flay men alive by waving at them. Notable mainly just because Point Man is the only one who survives any kind of encounter with her without being exploded into goo

- Sets off an exploding nuclear reactor, ends up on the outskirts of the explosion. This somehow does not kill him and his allies are left to go "How the hell are you alive"

- His weapons include a multi-barrel rocket launcher, an armor piercing nailgun, a sniper laser rifle. The last of which pretty much disintegrates anything not wearing super heavy armor in one shot

I know nothing about who he's facing here so I shall not even argue this match! But Point Man is crazypants

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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

I bet most people on this board know about Estella and Joshua by now, but just in case, I'll post a quick hype package for them. They come from a very well regarded jRPG series, which rather thoughtfully recreates the classic setup of PSX/Early PS2 era jRPGs but gives them a more grown-up, thought-out context. They have access to various elemental spells, buffs and debuffs of all kinds, healing, the ability to stop the first two physical attacks that hit them each (rapid shot bursts are counted as one attack in game), which is an ability that Estelle can recast, and have access to limit break-esque abilities they can rapidly build up and reuse. Throughout their games they fight tanks, assault helicopters, dragons and ancient mecha built thousands of years ago. Joshua in particular has a few interesting speed/skill feats - he manages to jump between two airships that are not particularly close by mid-flight, and manages to defeat a powerful enemy, Lwe, who repeatedly solos the entire party without much effort and whose sword can sunder a barrier that twists space like a pretzel to render its user completely impregnable to all attack. You can see their duel here:

(WARNING: the following link contains very heavy Trails in the Sky SC spoilers! Don't watch if you're planning to play it!)



All in all, they're a very capable pair, with absolutely excellent synergy with each other. Estelle's setup here renders her more oriented towards spellcasting and defense - Joshua excels at offensive spellcasting, and even moreso at melee combat.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Joshua and Estelle Bright have challenged The Point Man to a fight! Location of the fight: Lynchwood - The Wild West-style settlement as seen in Borderlands 2. Attackers will begin at the entrance to the town, with defenders starting inside the Gunslinger's Corner.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Joshua and Estelle Bright are as they appear across the Trails series, equipped with their best weapons and armor, one Gladiator Belt for each one, as well as a Power Orb for Joshua and a Soul Orb for Estelle. Joshua has access to all Time, Space, Fire and Water Orbal Arts seen in Trails in the Sky SC, while Estelle has access to all Earth, Mirage, Water and Air Orbal Arts. Both are equipped with Onyx Gems, Cast 2, Move 3, Gold Gems, and Heaven's Eye quartz for the purposes of their specific benefits, as well as the most beneficial Gems of each type of element they have access to.

~VS~

The Point Man is as he appears in F. E. A. R. 3, armed with every weapon available in F. E. A. R. 1 (base game only) and F.E.A.R. 3, with full access to his psionic powers. He does not have the help of Paxton Fettel, nor any sort of protection from Alma.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Who would you pick for Disgaea? It kinda has that problem where the MCs are the most liked guys usually but they're very broken. I assume you didn't mean just PSes there right?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

On that note

While I wrap up this rules stuff, can I ask something guys? If you can make a top 5 shortlist of dudes you'd love to see in a new mercs who've never had an outing in a previous iteration of the game I'd super appreciate it

We're a small admin team so extra perspectives on dudes who are wanted is quite helpful
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Foolmo's correct tho

Like Trails in the Sky SC is 30 bux on Steam (currently 20bux)

On retail you would have to pay 60$ for it because it would otherwise never ever recoup costs

And that's not even an indie game, just an AA/A company title, indies will go for significantly cheaper on digital
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

NFUN posted...

i dont know what mpfc is exactly but context makes it obvious

you can share some pointers from that if you want to help make this less half-assed

MPFC is Most Powerful Fictional Character, the longstanding tradition of Board 8 discussing who would win in a fight that IIRC preceded even mercs and formed the basis of several contests. The point I was making was that people got really heated in MPFC matches, because they believed in their boys and thought they were getting robbed if people voted against them. That investment can't be removed if you want discussion, and in fact can only be encouraged. It's why Mercs works at all - because people care about the dumb internet arguments. So trying to take that away from the match topics is an exercise in futility unless you want them to not work at all. The most you can do is moderate the debate somewhat to keep it relatively composed, but that's it.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Was turbodead for a few days because no sleep

feeling a lot better now plus took care of a couple obligations

One of these days y'all need to patreonize me so I can dedicate to this dumb game 24/7!
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Nominate your favorite characters and later vigorously debate which would win in a fight. However, not like Mercs. Please God this isn't Mercs.

You can take the mercs out of MPFC, but you can't make it not MPFC-y

j/s, you're gonna get those 'mercsy' arguments if people nom characters they love

that said

Nominate

The Doomslayer (Doom 2016)
Battler Ushiromiya (Umineko no Naku Koro Ni/Chiru)
Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)
Scheherazade (Fate/Grand Order)

EDIT: All of the above are Video Game characters, in case it's unclear.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

you guys do lot post nearly enough at all. Such little content makes it hard for towns to win. You need to communicate

Late but this is extremely true

I literally gambitted on day 2 because town was so dead in the water and not talking

that's not a good thing dudes, y'all should not force the doc to gambit because you will not chat at all

I had OK reads besides Han (I'm legit proud of how I reasoned out that JB could not possibly be scum, even if I didn't see Han because I failed to trust my instincts on how he plays enough to call his bluff early), but I'm not happy that I had to do a big ol suicide dive onto someone with really bad info to prevent scum from trucking us completely. If you can't make 20 posts per day as town please don't sign, guys. We should borderline make it a mandatory 'do this or die' requirement because it's impossible for town to win if scum can just idle. Like...seriously it CANNOT happen. There's no analyzing post histories if there's no posts TO analyze, for instance.

That aside, gg scumteam, you beat us fair and square. And thanks a lot to Ben for the great setup! I enjoyed it a lot even if I couldn't do enough to save the game.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Mewtwo59 posted...

It doesn't actually say that anywhere is banned. Usually that's in the terrain writeup but it's absent here.

Yeah in that case I think Voldemort, Erin, Kira and Olin survive the cube. I give Voldemort credit to do something that's at least mildly practical and bug out.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Didn't Hermione apparate to random forests in the seventh book? While bringing Harry along? If she can do that I don't see why Voldemort can't just apparate to Malfoy Manor or something.

Limited terrains for mercs due to mercs magic, mostly

like, what happens if you apparate into a place that is conceptually banned? Do you go boom, or do you (in this particular case anyway) win instantly?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

TheRock1525 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

FTR since it wasn't mentioned - Jacob Wohl is taking credit for the 'investigation' on Avenatti. So odds are it's total bullshit and he's just adding more shit to the pile that's gonna get him thrown into prison.

I mentioned it from the very beginning.

Sorry rock, I didnt see it, kinda got lost in the shuffle. I just figured it was worth repeating since it kinda changes things a lot.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

FTR since it wasn't mentioned - Jacob Wohl is taking credit for the 'investigation' on Avenatti. So odds are it's total bullshit and he's just adding more shit to the pile that's gonna get him thrown into prison.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Johnbobb posted...

How does nobody else think Voldemort survives this

literally the biggest threat to the magical world who can teleport

Because you can only teleport in response to what you can see. And if you mean 'just teleport out of the cube', you need to know where you're apparting to to not splinch. Voldy is stuck in a place he doesn't know. Teleporting out will kill him, most likely, and he's not stupid enough to take that risk.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Kamekguy posted...

I admittedly am not sure I know how to judge the sexual merits of a hand adequately.

Mercs I love you so fucking much for giving me this

Also Voldemort is super duper dead here

like

The cube has a trap made of invisible razor wires. Voldy is NOT going to spot it before it ginsus him up. He has the power but not the understanding of subtlety to make shit happen here.

Kira, Erin and Hiccup, though? They got a chance. Olin has a small shot too if Erin and Hiccup play ball with him. This could be a very survivable cube if people decide to work together.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

heroicmario posted...

I would imagine Mario Odyssey to be a much bigger deal for him than Smash Bros. The quality, reach, and reception that game has received has been the biggest since Galaxy back on the Wii. It feels like Mario sort of missed people on the Wii U (even if NSMBU and 3D World were great), and the Switch with Odyssey has brought the mainline games to a more respectable prominence than before. Sort of the difference between GameCube Mario and Wii Mario. I think that's more likely to rekindle some goodwill, rather than whatever he does in a trailer. Also, l feel like we're overstating Smash Bros. trailer hype a little bit. I don't think a character can count on a rise or fall entirely on the basis of whether or not they did a cool thing in a trailer for a couple of seconds. It's why I don't think Kirby disproportionately has benefited from the Smash hype.

This

I've brought this up before, but it took a year for BotW's best received trailer to hit 10m views on youtube

Mario Odyssey did it in two weeks

It's hard to overstate just how well received Odyssey was. It's the best selling Switch game (IIRC), a strong goty candidate, and just in general is considered to have taken the mario formula to a new level. It's no guarantee that the big drop from 2013 will be reversed, but if anything can do it, that game can.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

pjbasis posted...

I'm not really saying the 4 ways contests were the best contests, but they had the best distribution and variety of power among the entrants.

In my ideal world, new entrants like Drake and Ezio and Shepard would last as Dante-like midcarders.

IDK if I'd go that far for all of them (assuming we're talking Peak Dante anyway), but yeah new characters not needing multiple widely acclaimed games to not lose to Tails would be a massive fuckin improvement tbqqqqqh
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

pjbasis posted...

I think Mario is gonna be fine.

I don't see him losing to Cloud or Snake anymore.

I hope so

but after 2013, I won't know for sure until I see him kick ass
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Lopen posted...

I'm honestly a lot more upset about Zelda beating Squall this badly than Squall being beat. Like Donkey Kong obliterating him would be kinda funny

I'm at the point where Zelda series crap doing so damn well is much more irritating than all of my characters getting blown up

same but pokemons

Though I guess if pokemon is on a downswing now besides pikachu I can live with that probably

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I've been watching all my favourite characters lose in these things for years. Who cares? Doesn't change how I feel in the slightest.

Who are your favorite characters, out of curiosity?

Mega Man, Zero, X has been getting screwed every year since he started in these brackets. Then you have the CT and FF6 crew that have been in a downward spiral for years.

...Doesn't Megaman get a chance to run real deep in the legends bracket this year? Or am I imagining things right now
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

that is some very good taste in characters KP, just wanna say that

But yeah it's like...I actually really like a lot of those characters too, but I don't have great expectations for them. Like, Phoenix getting doubled by Kirby is fine to me because he's not a guy I expect to do a lot vs the puffball. If he'd gotten doubled by Ike, though, it would've really stung because there was no reason to think it could happen. I guess what I'm feeling here is like a bigger version of that - a lot of my contest enjoyment is predicated on trusting a couple of my faves to do well, but now it's basically just Mario who might be able to do something...and I have that lingering fear from Vivi's victory in 2013 to keep me worried until and unless he comes out and demolishes everybody. If Mario was suddenly beatable by Aeris it'd be really really hard to care about this stuff in any way, really.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

I've been watching all my favourite characters lose in these things for years. Who cares? Doesn't change how I feel in the slightest.

Who are your favorite characters, out of curiosity?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Of course FF characters get new games, as well as rereleases. Squall has had a ton of appearances since FFVIII and I think those keeping the games and the characters relevant is part of why they have stayed strong. Lately though, honestly, Square has been a wreck. That company is in an absolute state right now, the worst since 2001, and I think it has reflected on their characters here.

Agreed

We had a thread discussing how much of a trash fire Square's been a little while ago over the cancellations to the FF15 DLCs

It's possible Squall might rebound once Square cleans up it's act

I hope that's true but man...it's gonna be a long, long wait, isn't it?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

WhiteLens posted...

Kanz is just sad that the waifus are beating the husbandos this time around.

And Auron, because SOMEONE has to win a match between 2 husbandos.

I voted for bayonetta, that's not really a problem

It's specifically Squall's match. It really kills my enjoyment because I always loved the fact my favorite FF protagonist was very strong even if he wasn't the strongest. It made me happy to know he could always make some noise (before getting fed to Snake, forever, because...I don't know why, really). But this hurts because it indicates a downward spiral that is not reversible. Characters are not like sports teams, they don't have down years followed by rebounds - they weaken and weaken and weaken unless a very good and respected new game comes out to make them strong. And that's not going to happen for Squall because Final Fantasy is not that kind of franchise, so I have no reasonable way of clinging to hope that things will get better. It's a very bitter pill, really. Even if Mario (my other big beloved character) got the most unreal boost ever out of mario odyssey and scored 48% on Link, it wouldn't compensate the fact I know Squall's super finished now.

KamikazePotato posted...

Undertale is probably the only contest I've ever been able to enjoy on a 'fan' level, simply because something I actually like won for once.

I liked Draven winning just because I was involved with it, but Undertale making something happen was a very happy moment for me because that game literally helped me fix a years-old broken friendship. I guess the other shoe had to drop sometime, maybe?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

This match...

Honestly, I have no words for this. I can't even feel angry. I just feel like I've lost something very valuable because the contests are probably not for me anymore. I feel so, so disconnected from this Squall/Zelda result. I don't even know what to do with this. I'm just...numb. Has it ever happened to you guys before? Feeling like there isn't any reason to care for the contests anymore?

An out of nowhere upset that drastically changes the tiering of elite characters based solely on natural strength instead of bullshit rallies is what kills the contest for you? This is the best result of the contest so far!

And to all the Snake naysayers, remember that he is also in smash, meaning if anything he should have also boosted again.

Yes, because I feel completely unrepresented demographically, BT. That's kind of important to me.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

xp1337 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I'm just...numb. Has it ever happened to you guys before? Feeling like there isn't any reason to care for the contests anymore?

yes

Draven and Undertale

Funny you mention those

Because like, you could say 'it's outside intervention' right? You could think, 'hey, if only we had a '''''real''''' contest this wouldn't happen'

But me? I can't. This IS what gamefaqs votes like. So like...how do you walk back from this? Make it better? I can't see a way, short of rally takeovers that will always by nature be temporary. And that's very depressing.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

This match...

Honestly, I have no words for this. I can't even feel angry. I just feel like I've lost something very valuable because the contests are probably not for me anymore. I feel so, so disconnected from this Squall/Zelda result. I don't even know what to do with this. I'm just...numb. Has it ever happened to you guys before? Feeling like there isn't any reason to care for the contests anymore?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

trdl23 posted...

Kenri posted...

trdl23 posted...

So out of all the Power, hes Timetwister?

What's Link, Lotus or Recall?

He has to be Lotus since every bracket plays him. Theres just no reason not to.

Recall is probably Mega Man.

So Mario is timewalk? I'm very ok with this
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

GANON1025 posted...

I assume every character in the Castlevania show will get feats/abilities from it for now on. I'm a bit inspired to make a new Dracula build.

We discussed this actually

My gut is 'they honestly should have it, show's just a version of CV3 without the least interesting helper unburdened by the Castlevania Formula's limits'

Like...it makes a lot of little things from the videogames and canonical derivates make sense (Richter moving so fast in a drama CD other hunters can't even track him, Julius' Grand Cross making an entire castle tower crumble and fall away in the distance when it's used, Dracula being ridiculously overpowered and frightening when Shanoa faces him and basically going 'heh, nah, you don't win bb' as a final boss when you fight him unless you suckerpunch him with his own powers via Dominus). The question is, of course, do people even give a little bit of a shit about an anime? Because I know lots of players prefer to keep nongame materials to a minimum.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

htaeD posted...

You'd think Doop and Neab would be here

You would, but it seems like Doop thinks himself dead in the water and Neab feels safe

we'll see if that changes as we get closer to deadline
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

iiicon posted...

Sega is a good company to bring up. They don't really operate at the same level as Square (FF and Tomb Raider are series that move 8M+ when everything goes right), but between their acquisitions of Atlus and numerous PC strategy developers, plus the increased visibility of some of their Japanese series like Yakuza and VC, they do a lot of cool stuff.

Yeah I wasn't sure if they counted as AAA but if not they're right on the borderline - you have strategy games, platformers, party games, tactics games, some shooters, Yakuza, beat 'em ups...there's a ton of variety there, possibly more than Squeenix, if not competitive at a budget level.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

He read as Scummy. I know that's not enough for people like DYL, but frankly, I don't care. I could read back and be more specific, but if anything, it reminded me more of his Monster mafia game than his Dance With Dragons game.

If I stick with my gut from earlier in the game, then I would absolutely lynch Doop over Neab today. Same for basically how both have behaved. The only thing giving me pause is that Neab's role doesn't make sense and it reads to me like a different role that was altered to seem more like Town instead.

The neat thing is that the truthfulness of Neab's claim is very verifiable - he sends JB (or whoever else we as a town decide is most trustworthy and low-risk) a doublevote contingent on not voting you and then we wait to see it in action. The only 'out' I see here is scum roleblocking Neab and shooting you, but even that sort of forces scum's hand and we can prep for it. Han, who's your top 3 scumlist assuming Neab is being 100% truthful and we get to DYL eventually (so you don't have to list it)? Just in case, everyone who's a potential 'forced target' for the scum tonight needs to leave suspects to pursue so we can look into them tomorrow, I think.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

htaeD posted...

Doop being the only flipflop-free scumread of Sbell is interesting. Would a scumbell accuse out his teammate and only his teammate?

No, which is why I think one of the people he felt towny on is scum. Sheep probably?
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

iiicon posted...

Square probably has the most diverse, interesting portfolios in the last 15 years among third party AAA studios. Has it been a low period for big budget, mainline Final Fantasys? Yes, absolutely. Even the good ones have been mired by production struggles. Do they make bizarre decisions on the regular? Yes, look at the subject of this topic. But they're also the company that gave Yoko Taro 4 games, rescued Sleeping Dogs, funded Life is Strange, bought Eidos and turned many of their tentpole franchises into profitable games, produced great Final Fantasy spin-offs like World of Final Fantasy, Theatrhythm, or the mobile games. It's never boring with Square.

Well I mean, unless you're playing XV.

Sega maybe? They're generally super diverse overall.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

1. No. It isn't reasonable assumptions. If anything, it is just you trying to dictate actions. There is nothing that says Johnbobb is town. You are just trying to hinge plans on what you personally think. I have seen dozens of games where scum has tunnelled scum. If Johnbobb was spent extra kill and Sbell was godfather, he may have been deemed more valuable. There is nothing confirming johnbobb town in anyway.

Do you think Sbell of all people is the one who would be gutsy enough to bus a teammate like that

like, you're not actually applying yourself to this specific game, with these specific players. Talk of scum killing scum is all well and good, but it takes skill and balls and Sbell did not display either one of those.

2) Oh, so you finally explicitly say your power isn't directable that way. That's good to know. This requires us to revise plans but only a bit. I'll see what changes tomorrow when I'm less sleepy.

That aside, the point is that we make scum waste a shot killing Johnbobb and that is in and of itself a win. Or do you think he's going to be a scumhunting ace that you'd totally wanna have in the final 3 if it came down to it?

3) This is probably our weakest situation, for sure. If Town has any unclaimed power, we might be able to get something out of it, but realistically it probably dead-ends us. Still, that's better than the crapshoot of just lynching Neab and for sure getting nothing at all if he's not scum.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

John receiving nothing proves nothing. John is no different than than any other person in the game. He is not confirmed town or anything. If neablis is scum, he could just kill John anyways. Or claim roleblocked and do whatever.

He could be scum inventor which just gives johnbobb something anyways.

Like, nothing about this makes any sense.

A) John was tunnelled onto by scum, and unless you think they wanted to exchange sbell for another mafia, there's no reason to believe he isn't much more town than most people.

B) If they kill John, we get ahead. Unless you think it's a bigger loss than losing Han, or you, or whoever else you think is a good player?

C) If Neablis claims roleblocked and Han lives (or dies but you watch him) and tells us he's blocked, we just lynch him and get ourselves an easy scum.

Like I'm not sure why this isn't making sense to you Corrik. Yes, this has a bunch of assumptions, but they're reasonable assumptions. You can think of ways the scum tunnelled onto John if he's not town, or how Han might be scum fooling us so we shouldn't trust him if he says he gets RB'd on the same day Neab does, or whatever, but all the scenarios that make doubting this make sense are improbable compared to the interpretations of the facts up to this point that lead to this direction. Maybe we play mafia very differently, but to me these are pretty safe bets.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good - one where Johnbobb receives his gift, and the other where he's blocked and Han gets off a scan and confirms someone. I get the concept of gut, but lynching Neablis now is a low percentage play. Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.

Reminder that this astronomically makes no sense.

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

turbopuns2 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good

You must know a lot more about night actions than me this game to be so confident in your scenarios bearing fruit.

Scum hasn't given me any reason to doubt they're right so far. If they have more power to fling around they're using it very conservatively, considering we haven't seen any extra shenanigans past the daykill.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

turbopuns2 posted...

If we lynch Doop, Niablis is still going to look suspect no matter what. We shouldn't let the fact the gladiator confirmed himself be part of the reason we lynch him.

This isn't true

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good - one where Johnbobb receives his gift, and the other where he's blocked and Han gets off a scan and confirms someone. I get the concept of gut, but lynching Neablis now is a low percentage play. Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

I don't think 1 is too true given the current makeup of the game. 2 I can sorta see tho. It's definitely the oddest inventor role I've ever seen.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Sheep007 posted...

That's actually a really good idea with Corrik, didn't think of that. Worst case scenario, Han is scum and they have to burn another random ability on their scummate which is one less thing that can be used against us.

I mean, "if I were Scum", but if I were Scum, this would be happening already or Corrik would be dead right now. No way any thinking human would leave the possibility of being caught lying by that claimed role open (unless Corrik is also Scum somehow).

Anyway, am I seriously still the only person that doesn't believe Neab is telling the truth about his role?

Why would he be lying about something that is 100% confirmable and will get him killed if he doesn't do it, Han? Walk me through it
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

htaeD posted...

Honestly for all the despair Doop had over wanting to lynch JB yesterday. I dont like how easily he chose to gladiate Neab instead.

It reads of his scumteam telling him who to glad, tbqh
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Okay so I want the top 5 reason against noob and top 5 reasons against neab.

Right now I'm leaning noob but want more information from people

Read every single post I've made since the gladiate and that's your reasons for lynchhing doop over neab

tl;dr: literally no upside to saving a vanilla like doop in a situation where neither looks good based on their play instead of role, tons of upside to neab.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Sheep007 posted...

Yeah, okay, I'm totally fine with that now. Don't see much fault with it.

Also, every time you talk about the power in this game town gets less powerful and scum gets more.

Also also, Sultan is basically confirmed by SBell's flip and I can't believe nobody addressed or thought of that yet

You mean because of how omniblocker couldn't coexist with commuter if both were town? Maybe - I'm not counting anything out without strong reasons to do so, but it at least gives us an angle to analyze for sure.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

htaeD posted...

Sheep007 posted...

The problem with that model is that Neab gets shot and Han claims roleblocked every time.

Just have Corrik use his power on Han then.

Bin-go. When I say scum has no actions to counter with, this is what I mean. Every time you look at it it gets worse for them.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

If you can change my mind I'll be impressed. You have to prove beyond the level of reasonable doubt two very difficult things:

-That the jailkeep blocked kills because Han is mafia and not because he was targeted.

-That our setup makes any sense at all without a cop when all we have so far is a weak inventor, a day hider and a oneshot jailkeeper, versus a godfather commuter, a roleblocker, a daykiller and maybe a scum glad.

I'd love to see you try this challenge on for size and succeed. Until you can do that I will not abide any lynch attempts on him.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Sheep007 posted...

The problem here is that Neab isn't in my suspect pool at all, and Han, who seems to be someone you're treating as confirmed Town, should be up there with the worst looking.

If you lynch an uncountered cop you deserve to lose for being a dumbass and as long as I live, I will not let you try. Put a vote on him and I'll give the scum a free day just to get rid of you so you don't sabotage us if we go to final 3. That's how confident I am on my read. You try to bigbrain stuff too much instead of taking the simplest, most logical explanation at face value until it's challenged, Sheep. You need to simplify your play to get good.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Wait, what? Sheep has confirmed Neab. He didn't need to do the vote to confirm it. Neab admitted to visiting Sheep with Corriks claim and Sheep has verified what Neab claims to have given him.

No, that's a soft confirm. John getting a doublevote is a hard confirm and makes a world of difference because scum is not going to hand us bonus votes. They'd have to be daft to do it when so many townies are beyond reasonable doubt at this point. It sets them up to tank horribly. This is why I think we benefit no matter what the scum does if we let Neab live. They straight up don't have the actions to counter the info gain at this point.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond.