Lurker > WiggumFan267

All fair neon. It doesn't say pick the 10 best players. Maybe because "best" makes it sound too objective. I go back to no matter what you think the rules are or whatever , that it would just make more sense for the most prestigious award to be "best player". And yeah, it's all media anyway, its all opinion and thats fine. Theres never going to be a single metric that says "hey this is the best player", and its fun to have those debates to decide who you think IS better. I think the way the award currently works dilutes that a little (and that in general giving an award to the best player just feels more right).

And hey I mean, yeah he has a lot of the advanced metric leading stuff (he's the WAR leader- so was Kershaw when he won, but not enough to justify winning MVP), but he's also done very plain great stuff too. ERA is no advanced metric, I think most people would agree it's one of the easiest and effective ways to evaluate pitchers effectiveness. Obviously other stuff matters too, but standalone it tells you the most important thing about a pitcher- how good he is at preventing runs from scoring. deGrom posted a 1.70 ERA, which is Top 10 all-time since the 60s or so (and also basically since dead-ball). And I already mentioned the 29 consecutive starts of 3 runs or fewer, and 24 consecutive quality starts (I might've messed the numbers up before, I was generalizing, I checked to make sure I got the actual #s this time, lol) both of which are literally all-time MLB records. Those aren't just flavor of the month advanced metric type stuff. It's super impressive things that have literally never been done - and easy to see on paper (even if a "quality start" is a little tenuous... I'm not sure I agree 6IP 3ER should be "quality" but its not bad... 2 of deGrom's starts were 6IP 3ER. The rest of the QS were all legit "quality", but just going by what the stat is).

Like obviously that doesn't slam dunk make him MVP but when you have a top 10 season all-time in like, arguably the most important pitching stat, and set MLB records for pitching CONSISTENT pitching dominance.... that really lays the groundwork for an MVP case imo. deGrom's 3 ER or less stat on any other team makes him a 20 game winner pretty easily (for whoever that matters to) and obviously it does matter to one who thinks MVP needs, or generally needs to be on a winning team.

I wonder how much better he'd do if the Mets *were* a playoff team, deGrom won 20 games, and his only barrier to winning was the fact that he's a pitcher. And I'm more ok if you want to vote against him because of that as opposed the fact he was on a loser.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

that was game 1 folks.
we got at LEAST 25 to go
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Daniel Murphy does not approve of 2 men hugging
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#HugWatch who got traded
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

lmao I loved the bat flip on the walk tbh

I like when athletes show emotion (as long as its not harmful to the team, Bryce Harper)
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

ESPN camera angles suck ass

I'm loving the ESPN2 statcast broadcast though. Highly recommend it
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

oh i shoudlve refreshed sorry i didnt mean to bring this discussion back up lol

i thought the last post was about this my bad
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Scooter Gennett wasnt even the best player on his team.

Suarez is an MVP candidate and should get some votes though, but hes a step below a lot of the other candidates. so... that point is moot. He is "in the discussion" but yelich baez freeman etc were all better players. I think anyway. I'm not 100% sure on Gennetts numbers but why speculate about "whos being talked about". what does that mean? if he deserves it he deserves it. period.

the fact you are only willing to give it to a nonplayoff player by default only if the playoff guys arent to your liking is essentially the same as only giving it to someone on a playoff team. That's against the idea of the rule that says "you dont have to give it to them".

and looking back at the 90s , literally over 18 years ago, is meaningless. i guess you noted that but it doesnt really have anything to do with who should win and what the rules for MVP are and state. generally the best player is going to be on a winning team because having the best player in baseball helps his team win. unless the rest of the team is awful enough it doesnt help.

The rules are clear. People choose to not follow them or make up their own rules or warp the definition of value. I guess thats their perogative but it's a damn shame.

anyway. great game here.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

guffguy89 posted...

But Wiggs, you got to look at the history. Yes, last couple years was a big win for non-playoff winning MVPs. But going back to 1995, still less than 10% of winners came from a nonplayoff team, and most of those were at least on winning teams.

It does matter. Or at least it did. Maybe things are changing now.

Baseball has changed a ton in the last 4 years, let alone the last 23. Everyone is a power hitter these days. Recency is important. When would you choose to give the award to someone from a non-playoff team over someone from one?
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

I am welcome to debate the hitter pitcher part if you like. This now gets much more into the opinion realm:
Triple crown is nice. It's still just 3 categories- there are many more important ones besides just Average, RBIs, and Home Runs. Further, winning it or not is not a binary thing as far as MVP. Coming up 1 RBI shy of winning is statistically nearly exactly the same as winning by 1 RBI. Being top 3 in the league in those categories is certainly excellent and that matters a lot. But you can't just have a Triple Crown winner automatically win- that is shortsighted (Trout should've beat Miggy that one year IMO). You are discounting too many other stats by doing so. Stolen bases, Defense, etc. If someone had the triple crown, and another player was just behind him in each category, but was much better defensively, walked a lot more, had more SBs, etc - those aren't stats to ignore. (Also RBIs are overrated in player evaluation imo, but still worth considering to a degree).

How do you compare to pitching stats? deGrom had one of the best pitching seasons anyone has ever had. deGrom prevented runs from scoring at a historical rate. He gave up 3 runs or less in every single start this year but 1. He made it impossible for opposing teams to generate enough runs to win (of course, his bullpen and offense did allow this). Yelich's run creation vs deGrom's run prevention. That's how you try to compare it, and you CAN do it. Saying you can't is lazy and I would certainly hope any MVP voter doesn't say "Well I don't want compare these 2 things, may as well not do it"

That's what it comes down to in the end, because runs are the building blocks of MLB Value. Both were extremely good at it.

guffguy89 posted...

This is why the MVP debate would've been very interesting had Yellich not exploded like he did. I feel, and as a Brewer fan maybe this doesn't mean anything, but I feel that Yellich's stats alone make him a worthy MVP top 3 finalist, and a more than worthy winner of it if he does get chosen. I'm not saying Yellich should be chosen solely because he carried this team to the playoffs, I truly believe his stats alone can hold their own. I just think it adds an extra dimension to the consideration.

Had Yellich not done what he did, we would have been stuck with a lot of great, but relatively unamazing options among position players...and then DeGrom. You said yourself Wiggum that if someone comes out as the clear frontrunner DeGrom will probably finish second, but if there is a group of even contenders, DeGrom could take it all. The prior has happened, and I believe your analysis will hold true.

Yes, I would not be upset if Yelich won, don't get me wrong (I would be disappointed). But I would be upset if he won on the grounds of his team making the playoffs. He had a great September (so did deGrom btw - but he was just super consistently great every single month), and that may very well have put him over the top (especially since there is a September bias). I am sure Yelich WILL win MVP and that his September clinched it. I just hope its on the grounds of his performance and that if he did this for the Marlins a la Stanton, it wouldn't be any different. Me, I still think deGrom was more valuable for having one of the best seasons a pitcher has EVER had since the dead-ball era. He had 27 straight starts giving up 3 runs or less. nobody has EVER done that in 140 years of baseball, INCLUDING the dead-ball era. You can't say something like that for Yelich. Yes, Yelich better helped his team make the playoffs than deGrom did. I'm still saying that's not what the award is asking.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

guffguy89 posted...

Remember we are talking about a pitcher here though. The stats will always be subjectively compared to position players, of which Yellich is first or second in almost every major category. Hit for 2 cycles (rarely done in same season). And came 1 HR and 1 RBI shy of the first triple crown in the NL since the 1930s. How do you compare that to pitching stats? You can't.

When talking about leading your team to the playoffs. It gives an undeniable edge. It's the total package on what it means to bring value to your team. That's all I'm saying.

Aha but see? Now you are going back to thinking about hitter vs pitcher. I am more ok with that. What I am not ok with is MVP having anything to do with a team's record. Again, like my pitcher example above- I'll do it for a hitter.

Player A hits 3 Home runs in a game but his team loses by 1 run.
Player B hits 2 home runs and his team wins by 1 run.
Player A provided more value - he gave his team more chance to win.

"leading your team to the playoffs" is not an individual thing. An individual does not do this. This is a team effort. And further, you are now strictly trying to tie the award to making the postseason or not, which the award is not about. You did not answer my question.

WiggumFan267 posted...

So under what circumstances could someone from a non-playoff team ever win then in your opinion, what would it have to take? If you are insisting on the team's performance mattering, then do you have this scenario? How could Stanton win last year for the 77-win Marlins? His teammates had no success, his team had no success by your definitions. But he still won. What makes Stanton more valuable to the Marlins than deGrom did to the Mets?

It sounds to me like you are saying "No. The MVP winner absolutely has to come from a playoff team". or "If someone leads their team to the playoffs that basically ensures them MVP". The MVP award does not say that. You are saying what you WANT MVP to be, not what the award is actually detailing. The award does not say a single thing about post-season mattering and goes out of its way to say "don't specifically do this"
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

I am hopeful with Stanton winning last year (and Votto in 2nd), that the voters are shifting back more towards best overall player. I think deGrom's pitcher status is a bigger hurdle to get over here, than the fact he comes from a losing team. Because there is an inherent value inequality in pitchers and hitters, and that is definitely difficult to judge and a huge part of that MVP subjectivity, as long as the V is properly defined.

Aside:
[Although, that one you can better examine by looking at At Bats effected instead of just games played or innings played (ie, a pitcher deals with say 25 ABs a game every 5 games, plus defensive chances and a batter deals with 4-5 ABs a game, plus defensive chances... but not arguing this facet of it now lol)]

Un-aside:
Stanton won last year, with Votto 2nd. That's a fact. That's what the voters have collectively decided in 2017 was "the most value". You can disagree of course, but people are voting for him. So what barrier decides when it is "ok" to vote for someone from a losing team? There shouldn't be one, My main point is that isn't it more impactful and meaningful to give an award to "the best player" as opposed to abunch of weird criteria involving teammates? Don't you just want to see "the best player period" get recognized? (On this note, I think there should also be a more publicized "Best Overall Hitter" award, much like there is a Cy Young... there is one, the Hank Aaron award, but its not BBWAA, so no one cares about it).

People have what they want MVP to mean, but it is laid out what it actually means (article mentions this too, but gears it towards pitcher vs hitter). And although it says "to the team", you provide the same value to the team no matter if that teams wins or loses the game. You give your team X more or less chance of winning by putting the performance you did out there.

A pitcher who goes 6 innings and gives up 0 runs but his team loses the game contributed more value to his team than a pitcher who goes 6 innings and gives up 1 run, but his team wins the game anyway.

This is all about the interpretation of value, with the popular belief that a player provides minimal value when his team is out of the hunt. But if you want to look even closer, why not fold in the players salary, too? Is that not a part of the players presence on the roster? You can make a good argument that salary ought to be included, as well, but nobody wants that. What if a player is a particularly good box-office draw? Theres no appetite for this. Nobody wants to have to think about these other factors. So keeping it just on the field, its true that every team is trying to make the playoffs, but its also true that every team is trying to win every game. Every game is of import. Even the Mets games in September mattered.

(I posted this before your post but I will respond to that too just wanted to get this in)
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

(FYI The Mets also have 77 wins)
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

So under what circumstances could someone from a non-playoff team ever win then in your opinion, what would it have to take? If you are insisting on the team's performance mattering, then do you have this scenario? How could Stanton win last year for the 77-win Marlins? His teammates had no success, his team had no success by your definitions. But he still won. What makes Stanton more valuable to the Marlins than deGrom did to the Mets?

As for "pressure". Yes, there is still pressure. At the end of the day, there is pressure for every player to perform well. Players have contracts. As fans, we are blinded to the simple pressure of winning and losing but these are guys fighting for contracts, for jobs. All MLB players are subject to pressure to perform their best every day, no matter what standing their team is in. Maybe there are different levels of pressure, and it might even be different if youre in a playoff race, but the amount every one still feels is still immense. Those differences should not have an effect on "offensive and defensive player value".
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Here is the full text of the form

Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2. Number of games played.

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4. Former winners are eligible.

5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.

---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

The subjectivity comes in singular player evaluation. Not in how good his team is. There is no clear-cut "best statistical player" because there is no be-all end-all stat that says this. WAR tries, but its not nearly good enough, and flawed.

The whole award is based around subjective interpretation, but it is ONLY for deciding who provides more "strength of offense and defense". Not a voter's subjective definition of the word "value"

Maybe one VALUES extra base hits more, and maybe some one else values stolen bases and defense more, and someone else values ERA more to a player's overall worth. That's all fine, and where everyone's unique opinions come into play. But it needs to be clear cut exactly what they the category is they are trying to vote on.

And yes, to his team. So? His "strength of offense" doesn't change depending on the team that is receiving it. It's the same amount of offense or defense.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

The MVP is an individual award, given to an individual player. Docking (or awarding) a player points for what his teammates do would mean you taking the player's individual performance out of it, and distributing it with his teammates, a team award. But the MVP isn't given to a team. It's given to a single player. The first rule explicitly defines value as "Stength of offense and defense". The voter ballot does say its left open to your interpretation of who actually is "Most Valuable" but it goes on to define a clear version of what value is.

And logically, why would you want to prioritize an award for "best from a playoff team". Why does no one want to give an award for "Best Overall Player"? If you think Yelich was a better overall player in 2018 than deGrom, that's fine. There's cases for both of them. But I hate that an award given for a Single Players value is affected by what his teammates do and things entirely out of his control. That is a dumb way to give an individual award.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Also I realize I completely forgot to link the article WOOPS

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jacob-degrom-for-nl-mvp/
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

That's not what Value means. Value means best player.

The first rule of the MVP voting says this.

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

One more deGrom MVP article 'by the way', though this is more of a "why he shouldn't not win" look than a "why he should win" look. Basically more of the argument that MVP really should just be "best player", but it already kind of dictates that in its definition. It's not the most compelling article for making a case for him, but it makes good points on the MVP award as a whole.

Notably the last 2 paragraphs:

"Imagine that baseball had no awards. Imagine that you were in charge of creating them. Whats the very first award you create? Whats the most important award you create? Its the best-player award. Of course its the best-player award. Its not the best-player-on-a-team-that-makes-the-playoffs award. Its not the best-player-on-a-team-that-makes-the-playoffs-but-only-just-barely award. Its not the best-player-on-a-team-that-makes-the-playoffs-and theres-not-another-really-great-player-on-the-same-roster award. You create an award that looks to recognize the best player. Baseball has such an award. Its the highest-profile award given by the BBWAA. You can definitely overthink it, and over the course of several decades its turned into something extremely overthought. Its turned into something other than what I have to imagine was the original intent. Sometimes I dont even know what voters are arguing about anymore. I understand how we got to this place, but we dont need to stay here.

They say its the most-valuable-player award, not simply the best-player award. The most valuable player is the best player, according to the only intent that makes good sense. Even by these simplified criteria, theres still infinite room to argue. There are statistical error bars everywhere, and its not like the conversation becomes less fun. Rather, I think it becomes more fun and engaging, because at least wed all be trying to answer the same core question. In my opinion, this season, Jacob deGrom was the best overall player in the National League. Therefore, hed get my vote for the NL MVP. Its a vote that I dont have, but its a vote I would give him with my full and total confidence."

plus, listing excerpts directly from the MVP voting form:

One, the first listed rule:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

Two, from the first paragraph:

The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

Three, the last line:

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.

with special attention to that first point.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

If you're into umpire fun; Adrian Johnson will be manning home Plate Game 1 of Dodgers/Braves with Tom "Ass In The Jackpot" Hallion at 3rd.

Jim Wolf is your AL WCG Home Plate umpire (of Toronto Batter Interference fame), and everyone's favorite Angel Hernandez is at 3rd for Game 1 of Red Sox vs Yanks/A's.

Here's everyone:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DohOQx9UcAAPKKl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DohOQx9U8AEShAH.jpg
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

real truth is degrom is the MVP tho

Always been a fan of the wild card games, can't wait to watch them.

And as always, go whoever is playing the Braves.... *checks notes*.... Dodgers? Whatever.

For those of you who are generally unfamiliar with the Braves, you'll see every reason why to root against them at their home games, and building up more and more and by the time the 7th inning is here oh boy
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

mega man 11
dark souls collection

what else
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Yep- go brewers and rockies, but more importantly go whoever the Braves draw
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Mewtwo59 posted...

That's why they play all the games at the same time. If you're up big like these teams were, there's not much you can do unless you tell your pitcher to go out there and throw meatballs.

yeah, though this was a pretty new development I think. last couple years.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

oh and he double-downed on stealing the insurance money saved instead of re-investing it.

"Jeff Wilpon refused to say if the Mets have an insurance settlement for the money owed to David Wright, or if the team expects insurance money for Yoenis Cespedes."
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Sandy Alderson is a Harvard lawyer, Marine, and future Hall of Fame baseball executive who stepped away from the Mets because he has CANCER AGAIN yet Jeff Wilpon, who inherited Daddy's money and didn't go to college, is out there blaming Alderson for the last 8 years (and beyond, before Alderson got there)
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Also get this.

Jeff Wilpon dragged Sandy Alderson, a man with cancer remission, on his way out the door (as they always do to all their tenured people who leave) and said that "we have not spent as much lately because of Sandy's decisions"

LMFAO. THEY ARE ACTUALLY BLAMING THEIR FUCKING CHEAPNESS ON THEIR GM. This has been going on LONG before Sandy got here, and- AND THEY BLAMED IT on a guy THEY HIRED. A guy whose habits theyre supposed to fucking KNOW. And they say the new spending will be completely up to whoever is the next GM.... BUT THEY ARE THE ONES FUCKING HIRING HIM. LIke jesus fuck this ownership is so fucking criminal.

Yep. Tons of GMs always choose to not spend money and operate under small market restrictions. The Wilpons gave Sandy a blank check and he just decided not to use it. FUCK THESE GUYS. How stupid do they think we are?
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

If I were a fan of one of the 2 teams, and the other team won game 162 long before my team did, I'd almost say its better to just lose 162 and not have to bother with playing an extra game, and blowing a pitcher, to save TWO games (162 and 163) in favor of just the wild card. Weird situation.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Anyway, today was emotional too , but a little more toned down. No real festivities besides end of season stuff. Did go to the game with The 7 Line, and we all signed a nice posterboard for David, which was delivered to him and he clearly appreciated:

https://twitter.com/The7Line/status/1046457612181680131

https://twitter.com/The7Line/status/1046469586412077057

https://twitter.com/The7Line/status/1046472201824862208
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Syndergaard with the almost-Maddux on Game 162 - CG SHO, 100 pitches. 5 hits. 7 Ks.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

yeah lol we're not REALLY mad at o'brien, i think thats all just in good fun.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Also, a reminder he DID come back to play in august 2015 after being diagnosed with it initially. I'm sure it was obviously less severe but he basically ayed through those last 2 months and all of the playoffs in pain. He wanted to win so badly. It's truly upsetting they fell just short and never got him a ring. He deserved one as much as any player possibly could from not just his skill but his loyalty, his resilienceand determination, his leadership, and his passion
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Nelson_Mandela posted...

No Jeter-esque final game but still nice.

lol so many Yankees fans really need to make everything about themselves dont they. This isnt just you either. This was not your night so dont try to make it into about you or your guy.

The dude said after the game just playing those 2 innings alone put him in excruciating pain. He cant play anymore.it was so sad to listen to. He clearly still aches for baseball and it kills him he can't play anymore. This was done as a one last time kind of thing and so his daughters got to see him play once. It was nice. His 4 year old daughter threw out the first pitch

And the marlins weren't grooving pitches to him anyway (youd think they would after bartolo grooved one to dee gordon on Jose Fernandez night).
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Also the marlins handled this like shit.
He had a guy on 3rd one out and not only did they fucking bring the infield in in the first inning to steal his rbi but they didn't give him anything to hit anyway (he walked).

His 2nd ab he fouled out but it was kind of a tough catch. The marlin 1b (peter obrien) stumbled trying to catch it but he did.

He was booed almost as hard as mets fans boo Utley the rest of the night anytime he touched the ball or had an AB. I love mets fans.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

No one is better than David wright.

His final speech him sums him all up. Please watch.

https://twitter.com/WigsZone/status/1046272178294001664?s=19
https://twitter.com/WigsZone/status/1046271939856257024?s=19

Besides this, like on the radio after and before and such he kept saying how much of an honor being captain meant to him and he never wanted to take the jersey off and he loved it when people thanked him like "I should be thanking you!"
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

LIES

All

LIES
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Ummm. This is one of the most diabolical things I've ever seen. Like holy shit. I don't even know what to say. How can this be allowed. Profit over all morals. This is legit Captain Planet supervillanry

https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1045773149948846082?s=19

This is beyond twisted: The Trump administration is now arguing that the impact of climate change will be so catastrophic that they might as well loosen fuel efficiency standards since our worlds climate fate is already sealed. https://t.co/E7TgMes6sW

---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

The plan is for David Wright's two-year-old daughter, Olivia Shea, to throw out the ceremonial first pitch tomorrow to her grandfather -- Wright's dad.

Oh god tissues needed
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

dont let any of this propaganda taint your puppy bowl experience
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

i mean this is like well obvious and not hidden from the start

Literally as soon as the puppy bowl is over they show pics of the puppies FROM THE JUST-AIRED PUPPY BOWL in loving homes lol. if this makes you any less excited for the puppy bowl that is surprising considering this was already implied

the point was always just puppy adoption awareness, never those specific pups. this isnt news!

the puppies were all adopted from a shelter once upon a time
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

David Wright just had his first at bat back in the majors in since May 2016.

Tomorrow he will start, have a few ABs, and call it a career. Still cut down unfairly way too soon.
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

little over 24 hours left before i'm crying in front of (with) 45k other people
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Level 2: Tampa
Bonus: KC/DEN
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

1-0
Atlanta Falcons
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Philadelphia Eagles
Indianapolis Colts
New England Patriots
Jacksonville Jaguars
Cleveland Browns
Seattle Seahawks
New Orleans Saints
LA Chargers
Pittsburgh Steelers
Kansas City Chiefs
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

up
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

well hitting a game winning home run has nothing to do with winning an award for pitching but if he does that maybe he can win the MVP

but he needs 107.2 scoreless innings to match deGrom's ERA so. if he does that then sure, I will agree
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

that was the only game I found where clemens pitched at fenway with brett in LF - the date was in 1990 though, so I don't know if that matched up
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

Even if he does do that it shouldn't change anything, given deGrom's last start
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199005240.shtml
---

~Wigs~ Dp Guru Wins over Me: 1, Fantasy Baseball Wins over Dp: 3
2015 NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPION NEW YORK METS