Lurker > Wanglicious

so somebody explain to me why the delegates in this caucus system aren't given proportional to your win but redistributed evenly among those who pass the threshold?
like as a joke i totally appreciate and love the irony of it happening to Bernie but as a democratic system it's quite possibly the dumbest one i've heard yet.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

biden was killing it in SC for a while but he's not anymore.
you can't make your pitch of being the most electable candidate when you lose.

the big takeaway from the numbers bernie gave isn't that he took first, that's a trend we could expect. it's the 2nd round numbers: pete is the only one who got more votes. meaning that in terms of uniting the party, in terms of being the more electable guy, pete's the only one who can make that claim. for most candidates it's not that big a deal to lose iowa but for biden losing like this? it makes him just look like shit.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

if those results are true, pete's numbers are remarkable and he's gonna take biden's place.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

oh god.
so apparently the app has ties to hillary's 2016 campaign manager and romney's 2012 campaign manager.

that explains everything, the app committed suicide with took two shots to the backend and its corpse was found between binders.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

charmander6000 posted...

Didn't Buttigieg need this win the most? Might as well go all in and hope it builds some kind of momentum.

Biden on the other hand needs to hope the final results place him closer to the top three. His lead in Nevada is small and while he may destroy in South Carolina, you don't want the "front runner" to be 0-3.

pete and klobuchar needed it to establish themselves as legit threats.
bernie needs it to establish himself as the frontrunner.
warren is somewhere between those two.
biden though just needs to perform well. if he doesn't then his argument of being the most electable goes out the window and then he has nothing. a notable loss for him here means his numbers will drop everywhere else and the not bernie (and maybe not warren) candidate will gain massively. his base is sticky because they're convinced that he has the best chance to beat trump. if he ends up proving he can't beat 3 or 4 other democrats, why the fuck is that believable?

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

prediction:
bernie wins the most 1st round votes
biden wins the most delegates because he gets the most 2nd round votes


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

"the man has a cold he can't help but sniffle every time a chick stands in front of him. especially if she's married or 14, no in between please."

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

FFDragon posted...

I hope one of the episodes is just the entirety of Crisis Core

episode zero will be crisis core.
and then another episode will be dirge of cerebus.
the last will be playable version of advent children.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i was wondering when rockets strapped to cars would happen.
and one of the writers already said he's totally down for it going in space. i can see where this escalation is continuing, i expect a car with a rocket fired out of a rocket launcher having a high speed chase with attack satellites as he has to reach the ISS as it's been taken over by a terrorist using it to plan nuclear attacks.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean they've got like 4 games to cram into it so makes sense they'll take time.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

nah, she just acts like she does. when it comes to policy he's further than she is and she's a lot more willing to compromise to meet the center more. gotta remember that she spend most of her life as a conservative, did all the things she claims to be against, and steadily shifted left along the way. her support is also notably more centered; bernie's got commies and guys promoting gulags - something no democrat will touch because they hate Veritas but trump absolutely will - whereas warren has some of wall street, obama, NYT, etc. with warren the moderates have a big seat at the table, with bernie they get a kiddy seat stuffed with thumbtacks.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

er... Bernie is definitely more left than Warren is, though she's pandering harder to the fringe of the left that deals with identity politics a lot. if that's what you mean then yes, Trump performs better against that. i wouldn't consider Bloomberg over Sanders for that aspect either - he's trying to get that crowd won over too. it's only a matter of time until we hear a "Bloomberg, he/him" out of his mouth.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

goddamn square proving they're among the best in the business on trailers once again.
even though we still don't know how many parts this thing is gonna be in.

and i guess that means they're holding the Vincent trailer back for later.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

trump isn't a left/right candidate anyway. it's establishment vs. anti establishment. it's washington vs. not washington. bernie has that same overlap so things don't work as well on him as they do on biden.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

TheRock1525 posted...

B) I'm pretty sure he wouldn't bother with doing all this shit with Ukraine and Biden if he didn't think Biden would be his toughest opponent.

...the earliest accounts of this are before biden was running.
you're giving trump way too much credit. trump wanting dirt on biden isn't because he's competition, it's spite. compared to hillary, biden ain't shit. but if there's a chance to treat him like shit trump will 100% of the time take it.

and bernie is absolutely more difficult of an opponent. trump estimated 20%, he's probably not that far off. the playbook is entirely different.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

So is Brexit really happening tomorrow or what

in the sense that they're telling the EU they're leaving, yes.
but more specific details will be hammered out over the next year.

Corrik7 posted...

Another day, another split in Iowa polls between Biden and Sanders. But, I did see a poll out of Florida that has Biden 24 points over Bloomberg in Florida 41-17... With the next closest candidate in single digits.

Iowa really is going to come down to 2nd choices. Yang and Tulsi's are Bernie and both candidates are signaling as such. if Pete, Klobuchar, and Warren end up letting things fall wherever they may, they may end up split it 4 or 5 ways.

SC is the big one soon in terms of eye popping figures, though i'd love it if two failures in a row for Biden would weaken him enough for Yang to be a competitor down there.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

never

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

clearly they should just do a revamped version where they take the story and port it over to Heartstone as a classic campaign.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

LordoftheMorons posted...

The dumbest thing about Bloombergs run is that hes much more likely to cost Biden the win to Sanders/Warren (something he definitely doesnt want) than to win himself

definitely true if played straight as right now Bernie is very much so on the path Trump had. a strong Biden/Pete/Warren/Bloomberg situation makes him kind of on his own with only Yang and a bit of Warren draining him too (though she should still have more overlap with the other 3 in that grouping i gave). any additional strength from people like Klobuchar just makes it harder for them, easier for him... until we run the possibility of a brokered convention. that's the ONLY logic Bloomberg's run has: the belief that nobody is going to get the necessary delegates to clearly be ahead and therefore dealmaking at the end of it will determine the winner. it's a general longshot but a real possibility. it explains why he's ignoring the first 4 states too, they don't matter for that model too much. but that longshot becomes increasingly more likely the more millions he sinks into it because he's guaranteeing placement.

i can't really think of any other purpose he has. he's way too smart and way too rich to be that much of a fool. he's putting in the vast majority of his campaign into Super Tuesday and it's fucking ridiculous. let's ignore that he's already hit up all 14 states, he's mailing letters to 2.5 million democrats in those states soon. he is, through money alone, assuring himself that 15% threshold in all of those states. he does that, in the crowded field we're looking at, then it doesn't matter if Biden and Bernie each get 15-20% in most parts too - they can't hit the needed numbers. at that point it then comes down to how things look at the end: if Biden makes it that far in the general lead, it's Biden. if one of the other similar candidates - Pete, Klobuchar - takes his place along the way, them. if Warren keeps her status as favorite backstage, is viable, and looks like a compromise while not really being one, her. Bloomberg is, in essence, an attempt to guarantee that situation. or to simplify it, he's playing kingmaker and has the means, money, and institutions to do it.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

at this point i'm not sure a sanders/warren alliance is likely either when push comes to shove.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean bloomberg is getting 4th or 5th on a regular basis, i'm sure steyer's gotta have something that hasn't been bought out yet. then the two can unite forces in a broken convention to decide where 15-20% of the electorate can go.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

and then there's the board 8 question: does this mean no kobebowl this year or is he going to just dominate everything?

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

don't trust twitter in these situations.
hell, media frequently get things wrong in breaking news situations because they use twitter sources.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean.
they ARE untrustworthy liars.

but that's a hell of a claim to go with when you're literally the guy in charge.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

just checked the recent news on it.
China just established an even greater travel ban in their lockdown of the virus. now it's up to 56 million people.

but less than 50 people have died, honest.

there's also reports of a dozen instances in India but that's not fully affirmed yet, just reported.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

ghost trick.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...that's an ambitious crossover i'd love to see.
Zelda x Star Fox is... basically Nintendo Star Wars?
the galactic Master Sword that can send shockwaves through entire armies. add in a super robot that holds the timeless spirit of the Hero of Time and we're set.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

no, the 2nd richest is Steyer.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Paratroopa1 posted...

d) I think this argument is a huge problem for our democracy, because it implies that we should hand the nomination over to the first side who's willing indicate that they'll throw a temper tantrum if it's not their nominee. I am NOT ACCUSING ANYONE HERE OF DOING THIS, mind you, but it IS the implication of a policy like this that one side would be able to hold the other sides hostage simply by being the first to refuse to budge. The reality is more complicated, of course, but I don't think this is a healthy way to look at how we should choose the nominee.

i don't see this being what that data says at all.
to me that data is just another poll indicating how firm the base is for the Democrats. i'd want a candidate that doesn't have ridiculously high numbers on this because that'd be one of the clearest signs that they can draw support from outside of the base. how many republicans or independents can warren or pete pull? not many. biden can't either but i give him more credit than either of those. bernie? a decent amount. yang? his base largely isn't democrats, he polls VERY well outside the party which makes him someone to look out for in NH - their primary isn't limited to just democrats. this is quite healthy as it means you're getting a diverse palette of individuals involved with the party. i don't like or want a voterbase that's strictly "I MUST VOTE WITH THE PARTY," that is bad for democracy. this isn't. the cringe numbers are the "vote blue no matter who (unless it's the guys i don't like)" types, not the ones involved in the process in a wider base. convince them that those people should vote for you! like a democracy should do!

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...have you even seen tucker's show or his segments? when you're saying something is cut/unaired it's basically meaning the same as any interview show that isn't live. and considering that, again, he's got people being interviewed daily and has been for the past few years, you aren't looking at a common occurance. if it was you'd think it would've been mentioned as such but no. and the argument isn't "look at all those times he didn't flip out," it's "you are pointing to something that's happened less than 0.1% of the time and dismissing all of his work because of that." that is asinine. somebody got under his skin, he flipped out, didn't air the segment. not a good look, not a good idea, but has nothing to do with the literal thousands of other times he's done interviews without that and doesn't change the point made at all, which i'll repeat for a third time because you don't seem to be wanting to address it: if you want to get a better idea of Trump's base, watching Tucker is a great way to do it.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

oh the two paragraphs after that are super depressing too, the idea that a second dose of MMR costs a week's paycheck for a family in Madacascar is nuts. like of course it wouldn't be seen as essential at that price. but yeah, contrary to constant media reports, does not seem the idea that anti-vaxxers have gained much traction and it makes sense. logically if they did you'd get more disease which would promptly change some people's minds and any gains become losses, repeat. we're just fighting for that last 10% globally, US a little ahead of most others, and that's a change that's going to be gained a half percent at a time since your issues are going to be all over. hardlined extremists shouldn't the bulk of that, poverty and lack of education should.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Here you exhibit the exact same flawed viewpoint that youre decrying elsewhere. Islam is not a monolith just like Christianity is not a monolith, but only the latter seems to be recognized as such by leading conservative thinkers, and many run of the mill conservatives

part of this is familiarity, i'm way more familiar with Christianity and its subsections. the other part is that when thinking "Islam" people here think the way it's developed in the Middle East more so than Indonesia, although even that one suffers the same issues, just at notably lower figures. that is to say, only one third thing gays should be killed as opposed to two thirds and there's a slight majority against the state being run by religion as opposed to an overwhelming majority for the religion being the state. it's basically what if everyone actually agreed with Leveticus as opposed to the universal rejection it's gotten, taken to a significantly greater extreme.

StealThisSheen posted...

And yet we've seen how he approaches "debating" somebody he disagrees with.

Is there a reason these people that you're "good with listening to" have being very hateful, sometimes outright bigoted, in common?

a guy who interviews people daily and flips out on one means that somehow the thousands of other instances where there's no flip out suddenly means they don't count anymore? you're bringing up one example of literally thousands and acting like that represents the norm.

you're also moving the goalpost on this. the point was exactly what i said: Tucker's a great source if you want to understand Trump's base. and i wouldn't say he, or the others i mentioned, are hateful either. offensive, certainly sometimes. hateful, no.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

whoops meant to respond to this one too.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I think its funny how Wang claims the Right is more diverse, and his examples were a variety of Left-Wing people with wildly different beliefs who share one similarity, that they hold a problematic belief.

Show me some diverse Right people. For example, do you really believe theres more of a difference between SephG and Corrik than me and LotM?

those are the names i picked off the top of my head as people i'm good with listening to. the data is the bigger deal for making the case of being more diverse, the people are just using examples. those names are also people who i "get" and listen to occasionally to a lot. Tucker is also a great source if you want to understand Trump's base and he differs significantly from the rest of the network. if you want another name, one you might be familiar with is Saagar Enjeti. really like the contrast him and Krystal Ball have on Rising.

i also wouldn't say that Jimmy Dore and David Pakman are "wildly different" on beliefs (i think Kyle fits somewhere in the middle but still not that far off). same for Bret Weinstein, his biggest area to differ would be in things regarding biology and that's unsurprising considering that's his wife's field of study. Maher, yeah. for what it's worth, the gap between Tucker and Shapiro is bigger than those. as for the user question...

there's a bigger gap between you and LOTM than SephG and Corrik but that's because there's a bigger gap between LOTM and most of the topic as he's more center-left. for these two right wingers mentioned, former appears to mostly be a neocon, latter fairly typical conservative.

you and Jakyl would be much smaller, though he's notably further on the left than you, which would put you and most of the topic smaller.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Wang, the common denominator with almost all of the people you mentioned that the left demonizes is that theyre openly bigoted towards various groups, typically Muslims or LGBT

correction here: Islam, not Muslims. the religion, the set of ideas, not the people practicing it. and you do see the irony of picking those two, right? it's not Christianity throwing gays off roofs you know. Christian institutions were at one point heavily anti-gay but over time that's steadily been reforming to more accepting. Islam hasn't had that happen yet and does still need that. pointing out the incompatibility of religion and Western, secular beliefs isn't bigoted, it's a constant that liberals have been doing throughout the 20th century much to everyone's benefit.

Jakyl25 posted...

There is no legitimate debate between pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine stances. The former is just objectively true and the latter is rooted in fearmongering and anti-intellectualism.

And yet pro-vaccine stances seem to be losing in the so-called marketplace of ideas because more and more people are anti-vaxx, and kids are suffering and dying because of it.

they aren't winning though? the percentage is fairly stable at over 90%, though it has issue crossing to 95%+. the same's the case for Europe, which just got to over 90%. it also got a measles outbreak right after. here, from WHO on that in particular:

http://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/press-releases/2019/measles-in-europe-record-number-of-both-sick-and-immunized

they aren't winning at all. and logically they can't either since... y'know, they'll either get vaccinated or get sick. here, something in Slate pointing out a bunch of numbers.
https://slate.com/technology/2019/06/measles-outbreak-anti-vaxxers-not-a-growing-crisis.html

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Secondly, this was just addressed last topic, but literally the only non Left beliefs Joe hold are about hunting and transgender people in sports.

Hes literally for gay rights, trans rights (minus sports), Medicare for all, free college, prison room, etc, but hes not actually Left?

This is RINO-tier stupid.

and even then the trans in sports belief he has is the majority across the spectrum, both left and right. this isn't a popular stance within the left though it is an exclusive one. but yes, the phrase "ideological purity" comes to mind with all the people on the left i mentioned since they get bashed for a variety of things but when you examine their beliefs it's like... oh, you're left wing, not right. Rogan is also pro gun though he's in favor of some regulation, just doesn't know what exactly and doesn't support things like assault weapons ban because it's pretty nonsensical when you break it down. technically there's the wage gap too, though only in the sense that the whole 73 cents on the dollar is false and it's more in the 90s. but i think that correction is finally making its way through most of the left, or hope so anyway. it's definitely through the middle already. otherwise yeah, he ends up being super lefty, you forgot pro drug legalization too.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I feel like I'm about to regret this, but what are Joe's thoughts on "identity politics"?

But actually, this isn't actually a criticism or question to apply just to Joe Rogan. You could level it at a lot of these "problematic" leftists too. But in general I think people's perspective on these issues is a major factor on alienating them from "the left" as a whole and causes a lot of confusion and dissention.

it is, right now that's one of the most divisive factors. so he accepts the idea of privilege and agrees that some have more of it than others. but he goes a step further and expands it to being positives and negatives for being whatever you are. this is where you get a common split from the fringe that focuses heavily on it and everyone else. there's an acceptance that the concept exists and is true but a disagreement on its impact and importance with the main exception being class. for him and all the "problematic leftists" that's basically going to be the underlying belief; that position isn't objectionable to the center or right either by the way, it's just going further than that where things fall apart. for a clear example, take the way the democratic debates focused on having people of color in it, take the way Kamala complained that part of it's being a black woman, same for Booker and Castro afterwards. that part doesn't fly with anybody outside that circle that fully embraces identity politics.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

When people acknowledge these problems exist but also rail against "identity politics" it really throws people since it's so contradictory. And you mainly see that stuff from right-wingers/centrists. The leftists who make a big deal about disliking it are like the hardcore class-first socialists and they're pretty uncommon to encounter.

one correction: those railing against it are VERY often on the left too. this is why i'm using "left" and "right" instead of more specific categories like liberal or conservative, the identity politics wing is tiny but it's very loud and has a strong media platform. the center and right tend to see this it as a power grab.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Do you really think the right is somehow ideologically more diverse and superior but also disagree with them?

absolutely, yes. the right's got more ideological diversity in it, better arguments because of it, though i end up disagreeing with a lot. they are consistently much more open to sticking to arguments, points, and ideas whereas the left often ends up being very quick to attacks on character or framing things in more personal ways. the idea that the right is better at this isn't without data either by the way - it's a steady point that's been made really clear to be an issue with the left. the first major study i know covering this time period was back in 2012.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/the-righteous-mind-by-jonathan-haidt.html

study was on 2000 Americans where they needed to pretend they were other positions. that data showed that while moderates and conservatives managed to mostly get the liberal mindset accurately, liberals could not. worse, the further left the person said they were the more inaccurate results they got. now again: this study's results were published in 2012. we've gotten far more polarized and the left has gone further than the right. he also developed a theory of morality ten years beforehand and ended up seeing conservatives mainly on six axioms, liberals mainly on four. libertarians - or more specifically we're talking Tea Party - was two. that ends up putting the modern right with some serious extremes but also a broad range. no doubt some Trump supporters do fall in there, Ted Cruz and Trump shared a heavy overlap in voterbase after all. but that also means there's a lot of variety to work with.

if you want more empirical data, look at the trouble the left has with understanding Tucker Carlson, conservative.or take the idea of "the left can't meme," which just keeps getting proven right, with the occasional exception (Bernie, Yang). the right is great at condensing ideas into quick, easy to digest info and presenting it in an entertaining way, the left keeps sucking at it. look at the way Dave Chapelle's been treated in recent years, that critic to audience score was one of the most blatant instances of this.

or we can look at people as even when the left has people great at discourse they end up getting pigeonholed with the right, sometimes called alt right, which diminishes what that category got carved out as, a fringe group usually with white supremacist ideas. wasn't always meaning that, that's the closest definition it's got today, though the far left loves pushes everyone in there, to the frustration of everybody else. but i'll also throw down a few names, though if you're at all familiar with "the intellectual dark web" you'd be aware them already. first two are the most obvious for lefties:

Bret Weinstein - progressive. hard progressive. isn't in most left wing spaces because he had the audacity to not accept the twisted version of "a day without black people" that Evergreen had.

Sam Harris - liberal. doesn't like Islam which has resulted in quite a few issues.

know what shows they do end up on? Joe Rogan, Bill Maher. the latter's a liberal who has had more than his share of spats with people further left, so much so that you'll even see them call him a conservative. the former's beliefs are absolutely liberal, sometimes outright progressive. yet Rogan gets called alt right or a gateway to the alt right or any of that nonsense, even in this topic just a few days ago - that's completely wrong. and for a name all the above have talked to you've got Jordan Peterson, famous for being against compelled speech - which is a straight up liberal position, though the left demonized his stance because it was against being forced by the state to say a tran person's pronouns. and yeah, he's got his religious bend and there's some conservative elements to him but he ends up pulling quite left on many issues of personal freedom and individuality. this also gets to another wrong idea the left has on the right today - the idea that Rogan or Peterson would radicalize someone. data suggests the opposite. but it makes sense that the further left you go the more issue you've got seeing that since the study mentioned earlier would suggest exactly that. now who else do they talk to regularly? Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, a conservative jew who's been called alt right, a nazi, etc and a gay guy in LA who mostly is scattered across the center; Rubin's got a lot of social issues where he goes left but economically he definitely prefers right and plenty on the left hate him. where else may they show up? Steven Crowder, another conservative. but with these names alone you've got a progressive, multiple people on the left, some centered, and a couple right wingers. not one person there is "alt right" or "alt lite" or any kind of extremist. the opposite ends up being true as they're far more likely to pull people away from the extremes of the right. right now the left doesn't have enough of that and any support of a group who uses hammer and sickle flags should be treated the same way as your Richard Spencers.

and it ain't like the left isn't making some ground there, though it tends to be weirder. stuff like Jimmy Dore, a guy not really in the above grouping but very progressive, one of Rogan's favorites, and will discuss many things (some of which he's just plain wrong on - Venezuela comes to mind). i'm not too familiar with Kyle Kulinski's work but that's a name that's come up a few times. David Pakman i am familiar with and though he's a pretty standard progressive though he'll also have discussions with those on the right, stays on point, and though he's way more left than i am, definitely can offer good perspective often. but they don't really know how to stop themselves since you've got things like the young turks which is just plain awful.

all that said, you see that above paragraph of names? the right can typically understand their points and disagree better, often saying they'd love to talk. the left often doesn't, dismisses them, insults them, puts them into completely wrong categories, and lets the right hold a stronger grip on discourse. or to phrase differently, the left has issue with the concept of talking to a Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, or Steven Crowder, let alone the substance of what they say. they meanwhile will gladly talk to the left and have made a name for themselves off of that.

could get into the way bases react too but eh. i've already got enough that i assume will be falling on deaf ear

Jakyl25 posted...

Are conservatives really half the people?

fair point. so 2018 numbers that used just three terms:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx
35%, tied with moderate as the plurality. the flaw here obviously comes in how it's just three tiers, it doesn't split the right up into different subsections (e.g., conservative, far right, alt right) or the left (e.g., liberal, progressive, communists). if you did you'd probably get a lot more in the middle, like the polarization charts have shown, though that's not particularly well defined either (e.g., center-right, center-left). if you assume conservative will exist as the main group on the right it's still the majority of that section so... maybe more like a third after all?

but i'm not sure "half" or "third" really means much since the difference is still the dismissal of some 70-80 million people.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

actually hold on seems we got some info there.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/day-1-trump-impeachment-trial-draws-11m-viewers-1272169

Fox News topped both daytime and primetime coverage of the Senate's debate over rules of the trial.
The first day of news coverage of President Donald Trump's impeachment trial delivered 11 million daytime viewers across six networks.

Tuesday's proceedings, which featured lengthy debate in the Senate about rules for the proceedings, stretched into the early part of Wednesday. The cable news channels stuck with coverage throughout, but broadcasters ABC, CBS and NBC aired regular programming in primetime thus there are three sets of numbers to show.

From 12:30 to 5 p.m. ET, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox News and MSNBC carried the feed from the Senate floor. It averaged 11.01 million viewers, with Fox News scoring the largest share of that audience, 2.65 million. CBS, which cut off its coverage at 3 p.m., drew 1.94 million, followed by MSNBC (1.91 million), ABC (1.63 million), CNN and NBC (1.44 million each).

Among the broadcast networks, only NBC continued coverage into the evening where it got a sizable bump, lifting its average for the day (12:30-5 p.m. and 5:18-7:40 p.m. ET) to 2.79 million viewers. Fox News drew 2.63 million from 12:30-8 p.m., compared to 1.98 million for MSNBC and 1.46 million for CNN.

Fox News had its usual edge in primetime, although all three big cable news channels were on par with their recent performance. Fox News averaged 3.51 million viewers from 8-11 p.m., with MSNBC at 2.53 million and CNN at 1.51 million.

The primetime race shook out similarly in the key news demographic of adults 25-54: Fox News drew 654,000 viewers in the demo, while MSNBC pulled 490,000 and CNN attracted 459,000.

Tuesday's proceedings drew a smaller audience than the Dec. 19 vote on articles of impeachment in the House of Representatives. That vote, carried in primetime on the cable news channels and NBC, topped out at 16.05 million viewers.

CNN's daytime and primetime audiences on Tuesday were pretty close to what they were for the first day of Bill Clinton's impeachment trial in January 1999. It averaged 1.3 million viewers for two hours of daytime coverage and 1.48 million in primetime. Fox News and MSNBC, which were then less than three years old, drew a combined 600,000 viewers in daytime in 1999 and about 800,000 in prime.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

this is a pretty clever title.

Jakyl25 posted...

Imagine a person you know with average intelligence

Then realize that half the population is dumber than that

i like that Carlin joke too.
similarly, i like the NPC joke, it applies well to a fringe of the left and (to a lesser extent) a fringe on the right, with some bizarre overlap you can find in some issues.

yet that's not what this is and i don't get what's supposed to be controversial here. dismissing half the people is wrong and should be called out for that. that shouldn't be a political position!

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Just anecdotally I get the sense that no one really cares about this

some sources say a lot of people care.
meanwhile you've got networks literally pulling it from broadcast because it's a flop so i mean... take what you will?
realistically it's going along party lines as expected and the end result is as predetermined as it was on day 1. i think most people are aware of that already.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You know who doesn't do that? Bernie Sanders. He recognizes many people voted Trump because the democratic party has failed them. Bernie 2020

i get that this is a sales pitch by you but this is legit part of his crossover appeal. the only three candidates who ever showed any significant (as in, double digit) crossover support were Tusli, Yang, and Bernie. they also are the only ones that have purposefully and repeatedly gone out of their way to not demonize or dehumanize a significant chunk of the population. turns out, that works at bringing people together.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

StealThisSheen posted...

So why is "Who cares?" not a fair reaction?

...i feel we're arguing around each other on this one. the post was he's good at his job. i disagree because i think he's gonna be out of that job within the next few years due to valid reasons, the speed of it due to it being dug into hard by the right. if you want to go who cares to that... sure? if you see his job being less member of congress and more attack dog then again, he's great. but it's not his literal job.

StealThisSheen posted...

And both sides do that

both is two sides. it polarizes an issue further to two extremes.
any side that does that to that many people is making things worse and 100% should be called out.
like what are you arguing here.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

so in other words....both sides are equally bad

no, the position of trying to remove half the country's humanity is bad.
doesn't matter where that's from.
this really should not be a difficult concept.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

StealThisSheen posted...

Your argument of "The right, who would hate anybody from the left in his position, hates him, and therefore he's bad at his job" isn't particularly strong.

no, the argument is i think he's overextended himself and is going to get reamed for it with broken policies, potentially laws, and will be found to have been corrupt. i would not call any politician that has that under his neck as "really good." now if he manages to survive the next 2-3 years, hey, he was better than i thought. but i don't think that's gonna particularly happen. but hey, feel free to call me out on that if he makes it through that time.

xp1337 posted...

i also like the fact that the fact that an "Al Franken tier comeuppance" can even be said is because progressives are the only side that actually holds their politicians accountable for their conduct.

still in the camp that says he shouldn't have resigned.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Im not sure what alt right views you guys think are happening here

Seems a lot more like Enlightened Centrism to me

this ain't either.
the idea that conservatives - not even all of the right, just conservatives - have no brains is no better than when you have people say liberals have no brains. neither statement is productive. that's not a position found in political alignment as much as basic humanity.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Dancedreamer posted...

, continue spouting the alt-right views that "EVERYONE SHOULD MATTER!"

...you're giving the idea that everyone should matter to a fringe?
and you're trying to pretend you're sane on anything?

Dancedreamer posted...

Heck, the whole right-wing only really cares about 'triggering the left'. But suddenly when we do it we're MONSTERS!

...right wing has a ton of issues to argue about. just as the left does.
and... "triggering the left" means... completely dismissing half the population to you. okay, that's a unique definition you've got.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

StealThisSheen posted...

Why does it matter? They're not changing their minds for anybody, so why should anybody even remotely care who they hate most?

LOTM was saying Schiff is good at his job.
i disagree, pretty sure the smoke around him being corrupt in various ways will get dug into more and there will be stuff that eventually comes out which condemns him hard. if his job is attack dog to rally the base then fine, he's great, but if his job is a leading figure in congress uh... i don't see that one working out too well long term.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Dancedreamer posted...

Yeah, like anyone cares what... well I'm not sure conservatives think, so I'm not sure 'what they think' is the right phrase here. Nobody cares what they parrot.

...cool, so if you're going to discard half the population like that, guess they shouldn't worry or care about you either. great job, keep paying attention to politics with this viewpoint.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

Not really. Im a 1 on the Kinsey scale; I find some men attractive aesthetically but none sexually.

Im mostly asexual these days. Aegosexual if you REALLY want to be precise

ah. alright you'd be fine on that aspect then. just gotta worry about bribes and region you go to. but since you're a dude it won't be as bad as long as you pay up. though if you try to defend LGBT over there expect to get lumped with them, potentially off a roof.

StealThisSheen posted...

You say this like anybody from the left could change any minds on the right

Schiff in particular is reviled and there's some smoke there.
i'm in the camp that thinks it's a matter of time until the right set of accusations comes out and he's forced to resign. and unlike Franken, he'd deserve it.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Schiff is really good at this

he's really not.
dems for some reason have loved being overdramatic and he's the king of it to the point that he's viewed as a joke who'll get his comeuppance one day on the right. not one mind in congress will be changed due to him.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

true that reverse and remand doesn't exist in the same way but it'd be the same concept of 'not enough here, you want it go back to work.'
which is basically what dismissal would also mean.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

For what

maybe i'm misremembering but weren't you bi? Nigeria, like most of Africa, ain't very LGBT friendly. and by that i mean openly violent against them. you'd also have to be careful for being white as there's going to be some notable racism involved, expect to pay off cops on a regular basis because otherwise you're at the least getting robbed regularly if you don't. low scale bribes like this are quite common.

Jakyl25 posted...

I asked for a middle ground for handling the Senate trial

...same as any trial? reverse and remand or dismissal instead of actually having a trial. you know, the usual things courts do to punt.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.