Lurker > Wanglicious

hawley's practically being given the mantle of Trump successor. i'm impressed at this shooting self in the foot business dems have.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Not_an_Owl posted...

My hot take for the day is that no one who owned slaves should have a statue displayed on public lands, and yes I am specifically including George Washington in that.

i mean the take is technically fine, as long as you also recognize that all the people who were protesting statues and saying that they'd come for Washington were, in fact, correct.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i just love that list ending with Alex Trebek.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

he's already done all he can on it, right now he's story locked so he's just building up his social links.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i'm fine with him doing some not drunk Socratic side questing.
it's WAY more than what we get from other candidates. only question is whether yang offered to buy him a slice too or not.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

forgot draft dodgers when i said that, somehow. even though that's definitely the biggest example, politically and numerically, especially for the type of pardon i was talking about there. you'd have to go back to Reconstruction era to find a bigger example if talking numbers considering it was pretty much a blanket pardon with very few exceptions. i'm not sure what the exact wording was, just remember that the purpose was to put Vietnam behind the nation and that was the easiest and firmest way to pull it off.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

HashtagSEP posted...

If you want to argue your logic, argue your logic. But that line is hilariously bullshit.

why on earth are you acting like i'm gonna do more than shitpost against someone trolling me.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

HashtagSEP posted...

I'm not sure this one specifically makes sense, since it's very often argued that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

The whole "forgiveness" thing falls more in line, since it could basically be like saying "Well what you did was technically a crime but it's a dumb/minor/whatever crime and you're clearly not that bad so I forgive you/you're pardoned."

traditionally it meant guilt yes, only recently has it been accepted as not necessarily meaning guilt. clearest example of these would be everything related to the innocence project since they're literally not guilty of anything.

though for what i said there, you're still guilty of a crime. i was thinking more whistleblowers or civil rights activists, things where yeah, you committed a crime, but it shouldn't have been one that had any punishment to it. didn't say that last bit but i think that clears it up as a separate position than the cases where you're saying you've committed no crime.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

man, i didn't know LtM was so trusting of the government now. you know police are part of the government too, right? so i guess you now trust police when they tell you how it works.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Wang what the fuck are you even alleging the government is lying about here? They control the pardons. The government is the foremost expert on how they work. You're basically complaining that you think pardons should only be used one way, or that the government only uses them one way, when they specifically are telling you otherwise and historically have used it in other ways.

mostly the phrasing and the stuff in bold. so basically the first sentence that goes on for a couple lines. this part:

A pardon is an expression of the Presidents forgiveness and ordinarily is granted in recognition of the applicants acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or completion of sentence.

i mean some of this isn't exactly lying but spun - president's pardon being any different than a governor's, it not solely being a function derived from being head of executive, this element of benevolence, that 'acceptance of responsibility' crap where it's basically saying "pardons are for good boys in jail."

but no, pardons can be used in plenty of different ways, it's the perk of an absolute power. gave two examples, lack of serving a sentence, that something you're convicted of shouldn't have been a crime. those two are distinctly different from each other but there's other ones to use too. sentence reduction is common if they feel a crime is overly harsh too - this was the bulk of obama's last day. technically that might count as what the DOJ is saying there but there's a pretty notable gap between "pardons are ordinarily used to cut down a sentence" and that bit they wrote, which i just roll my eyes to since it acts like both parties are such good beings.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I dont BELIEVE the government when they say pardons dont mean innocence.

never said that, no. never said the word innocent because pardons haven't necessarily or traditionally meant that, though that's changed over the past couple decades most notably.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

and i'll again iterate that's bullshit. DOJ saying that now doesn't mean that's actually the case or is believed to be the case, made most clear by how cheeky in how it's trying to act like a presidential pardon and a governor's pardon are any different on this. but i'll also laugh at wikipedia being used as a source for anything regarding politics since this literally wasn't there even half a year ago, which is par for the course for wikipedia and political issues. lol wikipedia is always valid on that front.

i mean look if you're saying tony should've used government propaganda instead of wikipedia i guess that's true, though it'd still be a laugh.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

so your argument is just that you don't have one and just want to lash out.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i obviously saw the source considering it got added before the current listing.
still is bullshit. but glad you believe everything the government says now Mr. Ad Hominem.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

now that's just bullshit.
...and was added onto the wikipedia article for the first time on... August 19th, 2020.

sounds like wikipedia alright.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

is Clinton pardoning his brother even corrupt, really?

whats the point of giving the president pardon power if they cant use it to help out their brother a little

i mean it's his brother so yes, though what benefit he had exactly isn't particularly clear. presumably something the felony had prevented or limited him in some way. it's definitely unclear as to what exactly the reason was but it's not like anybody could do anything so it faded relatively quickly. was a noted moment though since the 140 or so pardons did happen on his last day as president with his brother as the highlighted one. even has a nickname of pardongate, so let it be known even in 2001 the answer was "throw -gate at the end."

can't say i really get the "oh but he served his sentence!" bit since uh, it's a pardon. a pardon says you shouldn't have served it at all, that it shouldn't have been a crime, etc.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

and sure enough, i look at the tweet, scroll down, and eventually see the source.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/politics/biden-administration-executive-action-legislation.html

relevant parts:
"...issuing a mask mandate for federal property and interstate travel..."

"As with many of Mr. Trumps own executive actions, some of them may sound more meaningful than they really are. By imposing a mask mandate on interstate planes, trains and buses, for instance, Mr. Biden is essentially codifying existing practice while encouraging rather than trying to require broader use of masks."

yeah, he can control that.
similarly, that's also what's already being done by public and private companies. it doesn't actually do anything except sound forceful. 99% rhetoric since everything it wants to do and everything it can do is already happening.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Corrik7 posted...

You can't mandate it. It supercedes states rights. You can recommend it and enforce it whenever in regards to federal lands and threaten to withhold funding in a pandemic if you don't capitulate to it, but you cannot mandate it yourself across the nation

it's a federal mask mandate for what he can do. as in, federal properties and the like. biden himself has admitted it's unconstitutional to do what people think it means.

won't have anything to do with things in control by the state, random streets, or anything like that. for the random person outside or going to whatever store, it does nothing.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

it's designed to be fun, somehow. supposedly.
digital versions speed up a couple things and automate stuff to make it not drag as long. socialism and millennial edition are good for a couple runs and laughs, licensed ones are good for the same thing but are actually winnable games. deadpool, gamer edition line, cheaters, etc all good for a run as they don't take too long and have some nice quirks to them.

bear in mind, at that point you're basically choosing what characters are cool to have.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i thought we were talking about monopoly and why the only good versions are the satirical ones like the socialism edition or the shortcut ones, which are basically every version using a commercial license and the cheaters one.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean the big issue with the monopoly example is that it means that most migrants are in the same position.
which means most americans don't have anything to do with it. just that tiny percentage.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

also Linsanity was 100% a result of the Knicks having somebody that didn't suck on their team.
i still don't understand who supports that franchise since even we pretend they don't exist as much as possible. there's the Giants, the Yankees, the Rangers, maybe some love to the Mets or the Jets as second stringers, hell we'll take the Devils because Jersey's our trash heap and they're competent. but the Knicks went extinct in the 90s, i don't know what you're talking about, was a freakish explosion that erased their existence from new york teams.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

hey now, that's unfair.
the first third of the topic was spent arguing with tony.

it's pretty common that 1-3 people get caught in an argument, 150-200 posts on it, switch to someone else, repeat. when that doesn't happen the topic is up for like, a week.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUu0GuW1WYQ&ab_channel=BrainMaze

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

this just reminds me of the bill burr bit on black athletes vs white athletes.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

where Parler was made by sort of establishment conservative types who care at least a little bit about public appearance, Gab is Channer territory. Theyre not even going to pretend to be anything but vile, and theyre also going to be way smarter about how the internet works.

gab's worse, it doesn't even have porn on it and for the longest time didn't have images. so you're getting that niche that would ONLY go to /pol/ but hates images or any conversation beyond politics. at this point it's kind of its own category, it's IRC meets /pol/ on a twitter-esque platform.

torba's got some really good ideas behind gab and did for dissenter too, a comments section independent of the site is really cool of an idea with massive legs on it. unfortunately he's also a giant douche who's incapable of capitalizing on his good ideas in meaningful ways. man's obviously a smart and savvy guy to be able to make both of those and have 'em running, but unfortunately he's also only good at having those things up and running.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

if that's in midtown reminds me of 7 brothers.
yang does frequent midtown a decent amount at least, he enjoys the pizza.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

it'll be interesting but i assume there will be backlash in the other direction when it turns out she's a complete piece of shit.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Also I dont think anyone is saying raise servers wages and BAN tipping,

i mean, i'll go with this position.
because fuck tipping.
terrible mechanic.

my fave restaurant actually has a no tipping policy.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

to be exact, if you go far enough left you're the only ones who get the guns back~

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I still believe most of the rioters are going to go unpunished if not go free legally. They'll make an example of a few and sweep the others under the rug.

first question still is whether trump is gonna do a broad pardon or not. assuming he doesn't, the ones you can expect to be punished for more than misdemeanors (i.e., fines, max year in jail) on a guilty plea are probably the more serious actors and the really stupid ones. there's a good chunk of those, especially to the ones that beat on the cops, though those may take a bit of time. you'll be hearing of arrests for a good year unless, again, trump goes ham on the pardon there.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i'm impressed they're so nice to give video evidence with complete confessions like that.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

charmander6000 posted...

In four years he'd only be about five months older than Biden is right now.

Of course, Biden is already an anomaly, but assuming Trump is free to do so he can very well go for another attempt.

biden's already got mental decline and was pretty minimal on the touring/campaigning to make it easier on him.
trump meanwhile just wants to show off strength but if you take him right now he's already just slightly better mentally, much worse physically, and packs a significantly more difficult campaign schedule. add 4 years, he's not better on any category and physically can't keep up. for him it's honestly easier to find an excuse to not run but act like he would since that's ratings and feeds his ego more.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

xp1337 posted...

Yes. Full stop.

~~~

Weird detail thing on the trial. The Chief Justice only presides when POTUS is tried... but does that apply when it's an ex-President? We're gonna find out all sorts of things I guess.

if they go for the trial he might show up just to eliminate having to deal with that question. technically the senate has ruled before that they've got jurisdiction on someone who resigned though obviously the actual courts would need to determine if that's valid or not. but internally, it should be "okay." since that guy was never convicted though no actual case to be made there. really does just come down to if they vote to convict or not. if they do, to the supreme court. if they don't, nothing mattered.

masterplum posted...

I don't think most Democrats or Independents took Trump seriously in 2016. Once it was obvious it was serious Trump lost convincingly

he lost convincingly electorally.
but that margin for votes was fucking tiny and needed 1) race wars, 2) a depression, and 3) a global pandemic, all in the same year, with multiple fuck ups on all 3 of them. he was legitimately the strongest candidate we've ever had and only lost because everything collapsed around him and he was too incompetent to pick any of it back up. he does one or two things right, he wins. that ain't "convincing," that's "mind who he picks as the chosen one."

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

masterplum posted...

I just had a thought

Do Democrats even want Trump to no longer be able to hold office? I would think if I was a 2024 presidential candidate I would love for Trump to win/ drive republicans into rascist positions again.

you don't need trump for that.
like trump himself would be too old in 2024 to practically run anyway, this would definitely serve an excuse for him to go "I'd run if I could but..." as he shills for his would-be successors, which he'd do anyway. but it does eliminate him from other offices as well as some benefits post-presidents get. also Dems are big on messaging so yes, they'd want it for that alone.

...though thinking about it, not sure if impeachment would prevent him from taking state office too. different government, after all.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

with so many twitter links not sure if it was covered but Mitch said senate isn't reconvening before Jan 19th.
so if they vote removal we're in for a constitutional question of whether the senate can do the trial of a president out of office.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Jakyl25 posted...

The group Babbitt was with trying to get into the corridor filled with cops and Secret Service with guns drawn

i find that one weird. i mean okay, that def falls in the directed insurrection grouping and if you're looking for that quick one liner there ya go, with a strong emphasis on "directed."

i'm less curious on the individuals though and more the leaders because they weren't much more than cattle, which is circling back to the point made/post agreed with.

scenario we saw was basically Babbitt taunting one guy who seemed to be the main leader and the rest followed along. and this repeated itself like 4 times somehow, with the same trend of shove guy -> guy chases him -> mob follows guy. like, at no point did they realize they were being baited? none of them? i'm curious on what communication exists there because that leaves two possibilities: either they're all in on it or there's a select few who are and a bunch of people who just go "oh, crowd's moving." latter would at least make them more on the chaos side a plausible take, even if it's unlikely. that's just looking at it from a reasonable doubt stance though, i'm thinking the most plausible answer is a group of randos were told something, bundled together under a handful of wranglers, and that's why herding them worked so well. would explain why there's no thought by anyone. hell, if there's insiders and the guy being shoved knew of them, maybe he thought "this is one of our own." either case, most of 'em were the useful idiots.

obviously they committed multiple crimes in the process so charge and investigate away, though don't expect much out of 'em, if i'm right it'd mean their idea of what to do next was riding along whatever the crowd was doing/someone said, meaning they don't have a particular plot or plan, it got planted in 'em while they were there. on the other hand, anyone who did come up with that plan or agreed to it beforehand, whole other story and that's who you want to dig into hard because it bypasses the similar rhetoric and focuses on getting current planners better.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i tend to argue principles over political alignment. can pretty much narrow down a lot of my stuff to a few set principles there.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean that's also the same guy who put a quarter on her desk and wrote her a signed note. not exactly much for brains or planning, he's the type who'd have left behind a bullet if he wanted to do that.

his primary objective was to be a dick and yell at whoever he could.
pending investigation, anyway.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Crescent-Moon posted...

So those "bans" are unforceable and meaningless; they're just meant to give out an image.

answer is "maybe."
it depends on the specifics of the language. like as we're reading it there yeah it seems like they'd be covered. but that doesn't mean it says what we think it means as this surely doesn't come up that often. also congress can still impose other punishments for it, though not arrest.

decided to do a little bit of digging and got to an early 1900s case (Williamson v. United States) , where this blurb was mentioned as the judge went super in depth with the history:

A brief consideration of the subject of parliamentary privilege in England will, we think, show the source whence the expression "treason, felony and breach of the peace" was drawn, and leave no doubt that the words were used in England for the very purpose of excluding all crimes from the operation of the parliamentary privilege, and therefore to leave that privilege to apply only to prosecutions of a civil nature. We say this, although the King's Bench, in 1763 ( Rex v. Wilkes, 2 Wils. 151), held that a member of Parliament was entitled to assert his privilege from arrest upon a charge of publishing a seditious libel, the court ruling that it was not a breach of the peace. But, as will hereafter appear, Parliament promptly disavowed any right to assert the privilege in such cases.

so uh... maybe not? as you'd then get into the question of would a violation of this rule be a civil or a criminal charge too. if it's civil, then yes totally toothless. if criminal, different. i don't know how DC rules work on this. technically Congress can make the metal detectors a law too but... yeah.

basically, the second one gets arrested expect a court case.
nobody wants to be responsible for said court case right now so don't expect anything until somebody in the police gets fed up and does it, fully aware that this is in the turf of lawyers now.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Theres maybe some rule that they cant actually stop a representative who is on their way to a vote? I saw someone say that on Twitter, although Im not sure of its legitimacy.

decided to check twitter too for this. i believe they're talking about this, article 1 section 6:

Section. 6.
The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

that... actually sounds legit.
you can't be arrested going to or returning from the house unless specifically charged with treason or felony and breach of the peace.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

of course they let her in.
another congressman walked around the metal detectors and walked in without giving a fuck, saying he was gonna vote.

if there's no way to enforce it then there's nothing to be done about it. you wanna stop them from going in, arrest 'em. otherwise it doesn't matter.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...i mean tim pool is currently in a much better position than Vice is so i'm not sure how insulting that comparison is supposed to be!

though i don't like beanies. terrible hats.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

kevwaffles posted...

When you literally declare yourself as part of the revolution hours beforehand, trying to get the revolution to come to you and later lacking more thorough intel over public communication is not the best defense, to say the least.

i mean it's dumb to tweet anything in that situation, the objection is just that being characterized as "tweeting about pelosi's whereabouts."

Yesmar_ posted...

The second is either A) An intentional *wink wink* *nudge nudge* to the terrorists to let narrow their search for Pelosi, in which case she she should be expelled for being evil, or B) An unintentional version of the same, in which case she should be expelled for being stupid, and putting the Speaker's life at risk regardless.

narrowing a search down to everywhere but one location? i'm more inclined to believe that it's her going "oh fuck i don't want a mob here, i'm not even strapped right now. SHE'S ANYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE." i doubt there was any good faith put in that but it's not telling a location to say the opposite. like if she had continued with that i'd be more inclined to buy it but as is you've just got: 'we're locked in here because of a mob' followed by 'speaker's out, go away mob.' self-interest is a much more plausible position over some conspiracy to kill pelosi.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

a couple hundred people isn't enough to consider storming the capitol as a walk. if the people in these masses believed they were on any mission involving killing they would've brought their guns. like that's the actual concern right now - people who are setting things up with guns. what you're saying there isn't what happened but it's certainly what's being planned for right now.

and you gotta be specific on the tweet stuff. we talking about this woman?
https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1346898958900199429

because there's two tweets.
first is they're locked in the house of chambers.
the second is the speaker has been removed.

that is not the same as tweeting pelosi's position. former includes herself, the latter is only saying where she's not. only one of those can be said as having pelosi's position and she herself is there in the locked room.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

if it was a kill and takeover they would've had guns to actually do that. that's the biggest hole in that idea: the lack of arms.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

FFDragon posted...

This is flat out wrong.

She was former Air Force security forces whose last position was with the DC Air National guard. Of every other wacko there, she was uniquely qualified to know exactly what she was doing and how wrong it was.

This part needs to stop getting buried.

didn't know what her positions were in the air force, let alone that she was actually working for DC specifically on top of it all. that's uh... yeah, you're right on this one. she should definitely have known a lot of basic stuff like where people are, location specifics, etc way better than anybody else.

Jakyl25 posted...

They were going for elected officials. They either knew where they were thanks to people on the inside, or figured it out by finding where the most security was.

It wasnt random chaos, it was directed insurrection

do need to clear up who the "they" you mean is. for a bunch it really was random chaos primarily, shit like stealing a podium or taking a mailer or whatever, that's much more in the "random chaos" category of these two choices. shit like zipties, much more in the insurrection camp. you'll have a lot more of the former than the latter but they'll both sound extremely similar in rhetoric and that's the point being made. they got in, had no plan afterwards and went 'well shit, what now?'

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

you're forgetting 4) it means those $2000 checks and any populist idea regarding government giving money to people (e.g., more unemployment) get to be ignored again because everyone's focused on impeachment.

we need to go 2k checks first, then anything else. if we don't, we ain't getting that money.


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

masterplum posted...

I still am skeptical of these "plots" I imagine there are a lot of people who are just threating things over the internet because they are morons. It seemed like 95% of the people who made it into the capitol were just happy to be there and had no idea what to do next.

i mean yeah, they clearly didn't have much of a plan going with it. woman who got shot didn't know what she was doing but was dumb, a lot of the people who went viral got arrested and also just did their own things along the way and were dumb, and that's pretty much the vast majority of 'em based on their actions, words, and lack of actions - see: the lack of guns.

still, they're worth investigating. some of them might well be FBI plants again, those shouldn't go anywhere as that's just the FBI being FBI. others might have some meat to 'em. i'd be more focused on the current plans being made because those actually are planned and involve weapons. that's the point to worry, not random people whose great plan is to... steal a podium to put on ebay?

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

i mean if it's china yes.
putting it this way, when trump was banned on twitter people were pointing out trump can't be on it yet china can advocate for sterilization. eventually they deleted it.

was this tweet and article.
https://archive.is/sVB8X
https://archive.is/4VEjE


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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.