LogFAQs > #972096291

So I've been thinking for a good, long while for this. And I want to create a cohesive narrative for how I think the battle takes place - I think it's only fair to give it absolute focus, and try to list all of the variables here.

Part 1: Ghost Suplexes

The match starts and Aigis is suplexing Pamela. The argument is that 'Pamela phases through the ground because ghost'. I do not immediately buy this - I feel the shock of actually being suplexed, regardless of the actual damage it deals, will keep her from auto-phasing through the ground instantly. And if that's the case... Trevor absolutely murders the crap out of her. I do feel that the revive would go through - Pamela would absolutely want to defend her suicidal friend Kuriboh here - if that revive was guaranteed going through. I combed for any evidence of Castlevania protags actually banishing or sealing away undead, and there were a few examples (Soma's magic circles, Charlotte undoing vampirism, etc.). But then there's this.

https://youtu.be/LoQLnVdsBeQ?t=58

... yeah those are just Sypha using magic circles. I think that would constitute Pamela being completely banished, even when the gameplay of her series would ensure her revival. This is probably my biggest sticking point - Pamela's neutralization - as she would be MASSIVE if she came back, sucked up the enemy and healed off of them, and let Raiden run through a buncha enemy raises. That actively swings things for me. But I don't think it happens. Even in situations where I think that Pamela does get through, I don't see her doing the thing necessary - hitting silence on Aigis - in an effective manner with Aigis properly on the backlines and knowing where she is due to monitoring. If a sneak attack were possible, that'd be a whole 'nother thing, but it presently isn't.

Part 2: Infinite Blade (Mode) Works

I absolutely buy that when Raiden is able to hits the enemy, it's with Taion set-up. The revives on Team Crono are crazy - I interpret Limitless Resurrection as "for a limited time, if they get knocked down, they get up again", probably with some kinda turn limit. Even if you interpret it as soft resurrection, that makes anyone - even TINGLE - an effective scout, because he is going to scream really loudly when he dies multiple times.

The thing is... I think that Raiden is absolutely gonna exceed those expectations. Very likely, suicidal Kuriboh is gonna go and find a merciless death, probably sniped by Belnades after she makes a quip about calling it cute. And that Kuriboh took a bullet for Raiden, an emotional bullet he can't possibly repay the little guy for. And if there's one thing that motivates Raiden, it's children with PTSD being horribly abused or dying. Raiden's close-combat speed exceeds anything in Xenoblade 3, and his actual movement speed, while not comparable to stuff like Mio's Ouroboros, is still real good. A similar swordfighter (N) was able to utterly overwhelm three Ouroboros at once, taking them apart piece by piece, and this isn't a form that'll reincarnate on death - this is going to SUCK. I do believe that Body Double can get off some debuffs... but I think it's rather unreliable at doing so due to its randomness element, and I don't think the optimal strategy of 'flood EVERYTHING' is gonna be primed because, quite frankly, Eunie's Ouroboros has the best individual kill move on either side with its giant laser cannon. That is likely gonna be the planned finale, to not exhaust the Ouroboros form before she can get there... and I don't think she does, I think Taion needs every second he can get. This will create a great wall, and there's like a 25% chance a good debuff gets dropped and the fight's basically over... but I see Eunie falling here, I really do. Plus her getting revived and dying repeatedly is probably gonna re-traumatize her.

Part 3: OKAY BUT WHAT DOES EVERYONE ELSE DO

While I think Raiden does eventually cut through Eunie & Taion, the nature of Ouroboros constantly regenerating itself and just how damn dodgy the Taion form is presents a problem: this is an enemy that Raiden can't just cut through and move onto the next with. He HAS to dismember and take his time (well, as much as "Raiden takes his time" can be expected) for this to work. Thus leaves Crono, Aigis, Sypha, Trevor, and Gordon open to take action.

Gordon is pivotal to his team's success here, as his ability to keep the enemy off of Raiden for long enough for Raiden to run out the ouroboros clock is paramount. To see how long Raiden needs, I checked this cutscene:

https://youtu.be/DVuxu3lzyp4

Taion and Eunie here do about four solid attacks/support actions and are horribly torn to pieces twice. This leads me to believe that a dodgy enough Taion CAN stall Raiden... but not for a terribly significant amount of time, maybe two or three exchanges. I would personally give it about 30 seconds of total interaction before Ouroboros would need to overheat if Eunie and Taion are the active battle participants, which is about similar to the Noah/Mio transformation. During this time, Gordon has to ensure that Raiden isn't whomp'd by Luminaire, Grand Cross, any measure of Sypha's magic, or Akasha Arts/Freidyne/big laser blast from Aigis. The important thing is, if Ouroboros is facetanking, Aigis and Crono do NOT have to focus on healing, as all damage is based off of a timer.

And this is where I find the match has its turn: if Raiden could break through the frontline, there's no doubt he goes on to create a pile of corpses that he just continues stabbing when they show signs of life. The issue is, he's a terrible match-up for Eunie, but Eunie is a wall that will refuse to leave him alone until her time is up, and Raiden absolutely goes one at a time for these enemy encounters. Gordon is capable of handling the enemy well - I even buy him grabbing Aigis with the gravity gun as a possibility - but there are potential counters to everything he can do because he ALSO primarily focuses on one target ahead of him at a time. If he gravity guns Aigis, not only can she still cast at him by activating her persona without moving a muscle, but whoever he's not ragdolling her at (say, Crono or Sypha) will get direct hits on him, which he CAN take, but not for longer than Eunie can take Raiden. Same if he goes to snipe someone, Sypha and Trevor are fast enough to close the distance and get into Gordon's face. PLUS, the reraising element will make the whole thing particularly annoying, as Gordon isn't getting definitive kills - when he looks the other way, oh no, Crono came back and hit him with not-really-lightning-more-like-holy-I-guess. Even if you take Pamela to be here, she has to shut down the exact right target while simultaneously avoiding one or two bodies that are open to hit her for damage that she'll actually be hurt by. No one on Team Tingle other than Mr. Fairy-Man himself and some of Trevor's arsenal really has damage that Pamela and Gordon would naturally resist. By the time Eunie's lost her lives, Raiden's on his own and has definitely sustained damage from at least one member of her team (let's say Crono or Trevor, I think they're the most flexible).

(Cont'd)