Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tingle/Eunie/Trevor & Sypha/Crono/Aigis vs. Raiden/Pamela/Gordon

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tingle, Crono, Aigis, Trevor Belmont, Sypha Belnades and Eunie have challenged Raiden, Gordon Freeman and Pamela Ibis to a fight! Location of the fight: Al-Revis Resource Center - A multi-level library and dungeon where the budding alchemists of Al-Revis Academy can hone their craft by studying ancient tomes and harvesting valuable ingredients. All monsters and NPCs have been cleared out. Attackers will begin on the ground floor, while defenders will start in the dungeon's depths. Access to the rest of Al-Revis Academy is forbidden. Which side will win?

Guidelines

-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Tingle is as he appears in Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition, equipped with a Mr. Fairy Balloon. He may freely use Tingle Bombs, can use his balloon for flight as seen in Majoras Mask, and has an accurate map of the current terrain.

Crono is as he appears in Chrono Trigger's latest version, with a set of full endgame equipment and access to all his techs. He may perform combination techs with his allies should the situation demand it. Him and Aigis have performed the Limitless Resurrection dual tech, combining Life and Samarecarm together, affecting their entire team. The dual tech's effect is up to interpretation, but will never be less damaging or helpful than the sum of each technique or spell's individual effects.

Trevor Belmont is as he appears in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness and the Castlevania Netflix anime. He has access to all of his sub-weapons, as well as all feats demonstrated in the pachislot games and the Grand Cross spell. Trevors Time Stop only affects himself.

Sypha Belnades is as she appears in the Castlevania Netflix anime. She has access to all techniques shown by Fake Sypha in Portrait of Ruin, as well as all her attacks and abilities from Castlevania Judgement, though she may only revive Trevor.

Eunie is as she appears in Xenoblade Chronicles 3. She is a Lone Exile at its highest level, with access to all of its arts and skills, as well as Healing Ring, Power Ring and Myopic Daze from Medic Gunner. She is may interlink with Taion at Level 3 whenever she wants, provided her Ouroboros is not on cooldown. Both Eunie and Taion are considered to have maxed-out Spirit Trees. Taion is not present, except for the purpose of interlinking with Eunie. She may revive allies if she is in a Healer class.

Aigis is as she appears in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax with all of her moves available. Pallas Athena also has all of her skills and properties from Persona 3 and Persona Q2 available. She must actively focus to apply the effects of Aegis Shielding, but it will always trigger if she does so. She will be constantly aware of Pamela's location, and prioritize defeating her if possible.

~VS~

Gordon Freeman is as he appears in Half-Life 2 and its sequels, with his full arsenal at his disposal save for the Super Gravity Gun.

Raiden is as seen in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance with access to all of his weapons (save the Fox Blade) and upgrades available in that game, including the Murasama blade, as well as a full complement of grenades and stinger missiles.

Pamela Ibis is as she appears in Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis. She is equipped with a set of endgame equipment and has access to all of her skills, including Physical Immunity, all of her Have Fun options and Immortal Body, which will only work once. She has mastered all the slots in her Grow Book. If all of her allies are defeated, she will automatically pass on one minute from the last one falling. She has been hit by a belly-to-back suplex from Aigis, damaging her and causing her to start the battle on her back, next to Aigis and her team.

Kuriboh is as he appears in Yu-Gi-Oh: The Falsebound Kingdom, at Level 99 with no equipment. He has given up hope, not caring about his own well-being during the match.

The Terrain - The Resource Center - The resource center isn't actually a terrible terrain for me. I want to underscore both literally and figuratively that Tingle has a map of the terrain, and Trevor is a brilliant tactician. My team will know that its strength is medium range fighting and kiting, and will look for the largest part of the terrain, which is the library at this timestamp, which is where Gordon and Raiden must enter from: https://youtu.be/ZOe2AooOeqg?t=885

Beyond that narrow hallway is a vast library with large open spaces which are perfect for flying around in, bouncing off or running up the walls, etc. All of Aigis, Eunie, Trevor, Sypha, and Tingles' Strengths. Crono's there for spamming Luminaire, Revives, and cheering. He knows not to get caught in the Crossfire. Gordon and Raiden will take a while to reach the room which will allow my team to prepare. Most importantly, Aigis can track the enemy team passively as she displayed in P4U when she took down hijackers on a plane. She can still detect Gordon and Raiden coming so my team will have the advantage and will be able to prepare. More on that later.

Anyways on to the specifics of the match.

1. My team has been hit by Limitless Resurrection - which I argue gives them the combined effect of two autorevives. At the very least, I think one should be arguable. Any less would be feelsbad and imo against the spirit of the ability. Or, alternatively, you could take it literally and have it be limitless. That'd be rad. Go for it. Let there be life! Anyways this is amazing because every single time someone on my team dies, they effectively get a free attack on Raiden. Or they can help revive. Etc.
2. Pamela has been suplex'd and starts on her back beside my team. Sypha likely starts by freezing Pamela in place - she's going to win in a quickdraw because she's a speedy lady. This allows my team to start wailing on her, and those who aren't using magic/ether to switch over to something magic-based. Honestly Crono probably just starts with Luminaire because everyone else is already doing things and he doesn't want to get in the way. He's a helpful lad. It helps that Trevor and Sypha are naturally good against the undead - I think that Trevor is canonically strong against Undead resistances and is able to damage Pamela which she won't be expecting. She dies once. Then she revives, and she dies twice. This match is Gordon and Raiden vs Aigis, Eunie, Sypha, Trevor, Crono, and Tingle.

Now let's get into the gameplan in the library.

Ouroboros Taion is pivotal to my team's strategy. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN3nLv-rNus&t=46s

For general Eunie/Taion Ouroboros feats, please make sure to watch a couple minutes of (it may be underwhelming if you stop too early) this clip: https://youtu.be/-ktKIEt3xV0?t=203

For how long Ouroboros lasts, it lasts visibly longer in cutscenes than in gameplay so I think that trumps? I'll argue it at least. No point in not doing it. So it lasts at least a few minutes, which is incredibly helpful because Ouroboros is invuln.

When Gordon and Raiden enter the library, my team is at a distance. Aigis and Eunie have dropped their buffs as recently as they can before Eunie uses her Ouroboros, quickly spamming a few feather dances (gives my team random buffs) and getting my team even more fully buffed before Taion runs interference. He uses clones to distract and confuse Raiden while Gordon is taken out. Gordon is effectively irrelevant here because Sypha will have set up devastating ice traps and his head is completely vulnerable. To give an example of the kind of set-up she's done before (and general badassery), see: https://youtu.be/L_9JyGfPlS8?t=63

For those who didn't watch, she sets up ice shards and at the right time just *mutilates* a creature flying at her. And with *precision*. She honestly likely does some damage to Raiden with that kind of cutting power (and being magical ice and all).

Trevor is also actually extremely useful here. Trevor's whip is strong enough to make Death recoil (though I will give room for that being a Castlevania type matchup kinda thing). If Raiden can't close the gap on Trevor, which is somewhat difficult given his circumstances, he's making it extremely difficult for Raiden to do anything. He's being constantly peppered while trying to attack, and Trevor has excellent kiting range. He also has Time Stop which stops time for honestly I couldn't find exactly how many seconds, but at least a few. That's a MASSIVE advantage against Raiden. Even if he kills Trevor, he revives and then catches Raiden completely by surprise. He'll be exposed to more damage.

When Eunie and Taion run out of Ouroboros, Eunie is actually fairly helpful. She can pop down a healing and buff ring and allow people to duck in and out. She has Thunder Steel, a medium range (10m) cone ether attack that inflicts Bind and does extra damage to machines so I think it's particularly prone to working on Raiden. Shockwave which is a 10m knockback AoE that can knock back large bosses so there's a chance it might catch Raiden off guard if he's distracted in particular. She also has Shield Wall so if she catches aggro, she has a specific skill that blocks all damage, reactions, etc. for a few seconds. A few seconds is all literally anyone else on my team needs to be able to catch Raiden off guard once again. And if Eunie is caught, she can just Ouroboros again and go full aggro on Raiden and catch him by surprise. I also think that if voters give credence to Combos here, Raiden being knocked down by someone could allow her to use Myopic Screen and Daze (briefly stun) Raiden.

For additional Crowd Control measures, Sypha has a spell that is a cloud of smoke that inflicts Petrify if it hits (from PoR). That's incredibly useful especially at the beginning of the fight when Gordon is dead and Raiden is first entering the library through the hallway.

Tingle somehow also helps because he just floats around dropping bombs! Even tingle bombs are still explosives! Hyrule Warriors Tingle doesn't fuck around.

Aigis will realize quickly that Raiden won't be susceptible to physical moves (given her game is literally about figuring that out) and will jump around and spam Freidyne and continuously debuff him. Remember friends, Raiden's defense is debuffed. When she dies, she spams more Freidyne (nuclear magic) and revives some more. I think that Raiden would be somewhat susceptible to Freidyne.

Anyways the tl;dr here is that Pamela starts next to my team, so it is Gordon and Raiden. Gordon dies immediately in an ambush that features Ouroboros clones so my team can take advantage of Raiden's confusion. My team is a team of medium range fighters and skirmishers in a large library that they are all perfectly at home fighting in and around. They all have at least 2 lives, and Raiden doesn't know this. Raiden is durable, but he can't deal with a sustained beatdown. Once Armstrong gets a hold of Raiden, his problem was he stopped. My team won't stop, and should be able to take him down given their CC, sustain, revive loops, and medium range fighting style. Eunie should be able to get multiple Ouroboroses off with being revived, which is really problematic for Raiden either way.

For more general Trevor and Sypha just because they're rad, please see the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3DzNzuw1Aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s6pu6QvkxY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59XsZ1CKNbI

Okay so doesn't the Crono dual tech in this instance do...nothing? They're already at full HP at the start.

Alrighty so this fight occurs in a dungeon. Pamela's team starts in the bottom of the terrain (the basement) whereas the attackers (Pamela and friends) start basically at the entrance as far as I can tell. Anyway the video I listed is the terrain, it's basically...a library and all.

Pamela is starting by the enemy team which does sound bad, but I'd like to show you this video (which also shows the terrain!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APS37ViG8L4&t=1002s

Pamela can phase through walls, which is incredibly handy here! All she really needs to do when surrounded by enemies is to relax, and fall through the floor. This is a fairly complex dungeon, so the enemy team is going to need time to locate her. This gives her a good head start on finding her team, and she also really knows this terrain well since I believe she haunts it.

Moreover, Pamela in game is completely immune to physical damage, so I would imagine the suplex doesn't hurt her at all. The only means of damaging her is by herself, or by magic. I know the enemy team is going to gang up on her at the start of the fight, but she doesn't truly *appear* to be a ghost, so it'll take time for them to pinpoint her weaknesses. And secondly, healing **does not** hurt her, so Raise or Samarecarm won't OHKO her.

Finally, Pamela has the innate ability of Immortal Body, which revives her. If she dies to the ambush, she'll get a second chance. According to the wiki, it takes a few turns: if she dies on spawn (which I disagree with), she'll revive after the baddies leave the room she's in.

Pamela offers fantastic utility with debuffs, and healing, and once with her team I think she'd contribute alot. She can pass off the ability Phantom Touch to Raiden, which gives him healing on his attacks, which makes him kind of a monster IMO. She can also summon monsters to help, which includes her teddy bear.

Outside of Pamela, there's Raiden who does Raiden things. He's uninhibited this fight which is great.

Gordon Freeman has his Pulse Rifle and Rocket Launcher, and actually most importantly, his Gravity Gun. There's plenty of bookcases and other fauna for him to throw around - and keep in mind the gravity gun can launch things very hard. Gordon is pretty good in tight spaces with his homing rocket launcher. And he's fought off Striders, which are huge tripedal robots. They fire plasma guns, too, which makes Freeman pretty tanky if he's canonically able to defeat them.

TL;DR:
Pamela might be at a disadvantage, but she has two lives, and can walk through terrain to reunite with her team. She knows the terrain, so she'll be able to find where her comrades are with little difficulty. Once she regroups, she with Freeman and Raiden have a clear strength advantage.

Note: Some of my videos don't seem to be jumping to their timestamps automatically so please refer to the URL if it doesn't.

KamikazePotato posted...

Okay so doesn't the Crono dual tech in this instance do...nothing? They're already at full HP at the start.

Could be seen as some sort of buff that casts auto-life

That's actually a really crazy buff tbh and a great use of of dual tech. I buy it casting auto life

(it doesnt matter here imo)

KamikazePotato posted...

Okay so doesn't the Crono dual tech in this instance do...nothing? They're already at full HP at the start.

No. Chrono Trigger has a literal instance of 'life buffs turn into autolife'.

https://chrono.fandom.com/wiki/Lifeline

The question isn't if this tech grants auto life. It's how much auto life it grants. Anything else is disregarding the precedent of a canonical tech IMO.

I may have flipped the attacker/defender positions so Gordon/Raiden will actually be entering from the bottom of the Library but my strategy still remains 'find the largest area to fight' lol.

Also Pamela absolutely can't float around the terrain. A lot of these walls aren't connected to anything adjacent, she's absolutely not phasing through the nebulous void of outside the terrain. Like if it were the Wii Fit Studio you're suggesting she could just go outside of the terrain and camp there? That's the kind of phasing around you're suggesting.

Oh, okay. That does help.

Ty Kanz, forgot to mention the precedent.

greengravy294 posted...

Moreover, Pamela in game is completely immune to physical damage, so I would imagine the suplex doesn't hurt her at all. The only means of damaging her is by herself, or by magic. I know the enemy team is going to gang up on her at the start of the fight, but she doesn't truly *appear* to be a ghost, so it'll take time for them to pinpoint her weaknesses. And secondly, healing **does not** hurt her, so Raise or Samarecarm won't OHKO her.

Trevor and Sypha are a real problem, especially given her passing through terrain involves relaxing. I don't think she's getting the chance to relax before Sypha hits her with something, and Sypha will hurt. I argue Trevor also hurts but voters may not take the canon undead strengths to breach the phys immunity here.

And if Pamela respawns after a delay, Aigis will know because she'll still be able to track her.

Prelminary thoughts:

-Pamela is super fuckin dead. Ghost vs Belmont & Belnades (plus several others), confused due to being on her back, no chance. If JC's team didn't have a buff suite to prep I'd buy her escape by descending downwards, but not when they're going to buff-prep.
-Ouroboros illusions are kinda sick for not getting mulched by Raiden. JC's team is much weaker than him, but as long as Crono and Aigis stay alive they can stay in the fight for a long time.
-Power differential is VERY big. Nobody except Tingle is a bad fighter, but if the revivers fall down for more than a few moments this fight gets unwinnable very quick. On the other hand though, Limitless Resurrection helps really extend the match out if Aigis and Crono can keep casting it mid fight. It's gonna be a very protracted battle I think.

Not sure who wins. Fun matchup.

The team with three revivers and time stop is pretty good.

I do wanna clarify how Ouroboros durability works - it's an extension of stamina. In Ouroboros form, the two fusing are immune to harm, but their bodies are not invincible - you can easily tear their bodies apart like any other body. They CAN regenerate, but that decreases the overall amount of time the transformation lasts, hence why you see so much dodging. Once it overheats, the users either have to forcibly eject from each other and wait a lengthy cooldown to try again, or push it and... kinda just stop thinking and die horribly.

It's real good, Raiden is a bad match-up against it if he keeps cutting them up. Illusions will help with this considerably, but also Gordon spraying and praying helps a lot at dispersing that.

Real fun match-up, the sheer amount of revives and potential stuns is keeping this real interesting. I don't buy Eunie's close-quarters stuns on robots working very well here because if she's using those, she's not fused with Taion and is prrrobably dead being that close-up to Raiden.

Also Kuriboh probably beats Tingle. He just has 1,000 Needles, pops all the balloons. I think that's important to imagine happening in the background.

Gonna go back and watch the N fight cutscene from Xenoblade 3 again. Just want to see how long Eunie can keep the Ouroboros form while she's getting beat on.

Gordon is, interestingly, probably going to be Crono's job to control. Luminaire can do a lot of incidental damage to him while hitting Raiden. Pamela's absence is going to be really noticeable. If she could passively lifesteal Gordon and Raiden up I would take them to stomp, but without her healing this matchup gets way more debatable.

(On a related note, Gordon's Pulse Rifle is kinda cash here for sure. If it scores a kill with the alt fire I think people can't be rezzed? IIRC it disintegrates targets hit. Very few shots though, I think?)

Mewtwo59 posted...

Gonna go back and watch the N fight cutscene from Xenoblade 3 again. Just want to see how long Eunie can keep the Ouroboros form while she's getting beat on.

If thats the feat vid that I linked (which doesnt show the start and end of the transformation) its at least 5:40 long

Gordons problem is that hes a regular durability dude neck-up and I have a lot of people who can pop that extremely quickly.

Hes tanky but has an Achilles head.

Chaeix posted...

Gordons problem is that hes a regular durability dude neck-up and I have a lot of people who can pop that extremely quickly.

Hes tanky but has an Achilles head.

Oh boy are we doing the Gourdon Pumpkinhead Freeman helmet arguments again

My favorite part of mercs

(unironically, no sass)

man if syphas ice shards can cut demons in half you better believe Gordons head is getting cleaved

and quite frankly the man is ignoring years of medical research on helmet safety

what kind of doctor is he

Chaeix posted...

man if syphas ice shards can cut demons in half you better believe Gordons head is getting cleaved

sir pls calm down, im still chewing thru yinz's vids, I will get to the sypha hype later

Chaeix posted...

If thats the feat vid that I linked (which doesnt show the start and end of the transformation) its at least 5:40 long

That wasn't in either of those videos, but Eunie and Taion stayed interlinked for around that time, though they were lying on the ground helpless for around half of that time. The other two pairs did more and hit their limit well before that. Noah and Mio were the most active of the three, and they lasted around 2:30 (assuming they transformed right before the cutscene started). I buy that they probably last around 2 minutes if they're taking the majority of the heat (and no, they aren't going to suicide themselves in an annihilation event. Even if I thought they'd be willing to, this place is small enough that it kills everyone and it ends in a draw.)

Creative but no I don't think it would give reraise to everyone. Crono Marle and Robo need to Triple Tech for that. You wouldn't get Teamwide Reraise from a Dual, much less a double reraise.

Raiden SOLOS either with or without.

neither cyclone or laser spin are heals, though. I think I buy two heals having a bigger healing effect here.

Dual and triple techs are weird but yeah I just don't buy a straight obsoleting

Especially since Arise is what's used in the triple, not Crono's shitty Raise. Samaecarm on the other hand is Arise but yeah in terms of oomph the majority is in that triple already.

I totally buy those two giving an auto-raise for everyone, yeah.

If Kuriboh hadn't been there to take the ability hit for Raiden this'd be a stomp against him, but as it is I can't help but lean that way. Definitely not ready to yell SOLOS yet though

I think I buy the reraise and buy Pamela getting away which makes this intriguing

I think in the end though, Pamela speed debuffs make it so Aigis just really has no shot here even with a raise or three.

BUT with that time stop pamela is toast and so is gordon in all likelihood with the big Sypha assist.

So for me this comes down to *can Raiden solo with Ouroboros active*

And I dunno.

So if we consider it to be "Limitless Ressurection" then either it's limitless as in, you get autoraise several times or it's limitless as in, it affects many targets. I'm going with the latter in this case.

Pam Pam is dead dead, if Belmont and Belnades can't put her down when given this much of a free start vs. a ghost, then I dunno who could. She will get up again, true, and she does know the place, but Trevor's used to respawning enemies so idk if that's gonna help.

Also if there's anyone who's really good at fighting in a giant magic library... Belmonts are high on that list. Real high.

Honestly this feels like a lot for Raiden to handle. It's not that he can't kill any of these mercs individually, he definitely can, but given the teamwork, the massive amount of 1-ups, and the location... It's just a lot. Gonna think some more. I'll say that this is a fight Aigis is going to massively shine in. She's fast and mobile and does not have to tank anymore, which lets her be ridiculously annoying with her ranged attacks, healing, buffs, debuffs, even MORE raising... a lot of my issue with Aigis in earlier arguments had to do with her trying to tank people she really couldn't, and I think Raiden is going to have a lot of trouble getting to her here given the crowded field so she's going to be a lot more useful than in previous fights.

Can Eunie swap Ouroboros forms? It sounds like Taion's only there so she can interlink to her Ouroboros form, but his Ouroboros form is under his control.

KJH posted...

Can Eunie swap Ouroboros forms? It sounds like Taion's only there so she can interlink to her Ouroboros form, but his Ouroboros form is under his control.

She can. Interp if she's in control or Taion if they swap to Taion form I think (I haven't played XC3) but the fact they have both soul trees unlocked points strongly towards having access to either form's options.

KJH posted...

Can Eunie swap Ouroboros forms? It sounds like Taion's only there so she can interlink to her Ouroboros form, but his Ouroboros form is under his control.

from the ability but not in the writeup: If Eunie is rostered in a Mid or High Tier match, she may freely utilize her interlink with Taion and access both of their Ouroboros forms.

Chaeix posted...

Gordons problem is that hes a regular durability dude neck-up and I have a lot of people who can pop that extremely quickly.

Hes tanky but has an Achilles head.

I'm quite certain Gordon wears an HEV SUIT helmet. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to withstand radioactive areas he travels through all the time

Chaeix posted...

I may have flipped the attacker/defender positions so Gordon/Raiden will actually be entering from the bottom of the Library but my strategy still remains 'find the largest area to fight' lol.

Also Pamela absolutely can't float around the terrain. A lot of these walls aren't connected to anything adjacent, she's absolutely not phasing through the nebulous void of outside the terrain. Like if it were the Wii Fit Studio you're suggesting she could just go outside of the terrain and camp there? That's the kind of phasing around you're suggesting.

The terrain states it's a several level building. If you look at a map of the terrain it's all connected. No OOB hacks here, just what a ghost can do.

And assuming Pamela does get away and rendezvous with her team which is very possible, it's important to keep in mind that Aigis is going to prioritize her first.

This gives Gordon the opportunity to neutralize her with the Gravity Gun as she's completely a robot, and throw her into the enemy team. That's a big distraction and will deal some fatal blows.

Keep in mind Freeman throws broken fuselage at Striders in his game and deals significant damage to them.

Limitless Resurrection is in bold, wow

Final thought: this is a really tight environment which favors Raidens close combat expertise. Gordon's disruption with his GG, pulse rifle and homing rockets are going to make it very difficult for the enemy team to execute any sort of strategy in order.

If Pamela survives, she's going to be an albatross for Aigis since she will be prioritizing her and not reviving people.

Finally as far as the abilities state, Pamela resurrects a few turns later. So she should have an escape route out whether or not she dies to the initial ambush.

greengravy294 posted...

If Pamela survives, she's going to be an albatross for Aigis since she will be prioritizing her and not reviving people.

I would have to say when Pamela survives, being a ghost gives basic ghost abilities, like sinking through the floor at match start, and since the suplex did no damage (phys immune), the ability to just escape the entire team exists to frustrate Aigis.

trevor et al.

where did mario go
---

HGR has correctly pointed out on discord:

you know, you could argue they can reapply the dual tech during the battle because >He may perform combination techs with his allies should the situation demand it.

that's why I think this is bonkers

the only way I see team LR losing is if every single member of the team dies at the same time

otherwise, like keith lee, they are limitless

I'm seeing it as cheap res to full, but I also don't really put much stock in the names

Well as long as Pamela is alive (or dead as a ghost) Aigis really isn't going to be contributing as some sort of full time reviver.

In fact if you put Crono on full time reviving you still have Gordon to interrupt him with his pulse rifle (and he's a sitting duck) along with Aigis being a sitting duck too.

This all leaves Raiden to deal with the Castlevania duo and Tingle and Eunie.

I'd also like to point out against that the Gravity Gun picks up metal objects and Aigis is about the size to be able to throw. If she's focusing on Pamela it's a perfect time to Gravity Gun her around.

FFDragon posted...

that's why I think this is bonkers

the only way I see team LR losing is if every single member of the team dies at the same time

otherwise, like keith lee, they are limitless

Really Raiden just needs to kill Crono twice in a row (or as many times as you think the dual tech applies) and the dual tech is no longer usable.

I would also argue that with enough physical separation between the two the dual tech is no longer usable either.

It's also probably an MP intensive skill the stronger you make it an Crono's MP pool isn't very high

For reference Lifeline (the inferior triple tech) costs Crono 15 mp of his max 99

6 applications max here. Possibly less as I could see a stronger tech costing 20.

I think the gravity gun is MUCH better suited to ragdolling the environment around. Aigis doesn't need to move to activate her persona and it casts independently of her.

I do think Pamela's super dead here - like you put an undead right in front of a semi-competent Belmont and his far more competent sorceress friend, of course they're getting shredded, the Morning Star is oozing with magic specifically for this kinda situation. What interests me more if how long Eunie can hold out. Taion's form has the following ability:

Body Double (Frontword AoE): Applies 1 randomly chosen debuff(s) when Art hits.

And this can apply things including the inability to block, inability to move, sleep, and a debuff to make resistance to debuffs weaker, among about four other debuffs. This has about a 15 second cooldown in-gameplay, but does create an AoE spread of body doubles. If Raiden cuts down enough of those in close combat (which... y'know, he's want to do), that's REALLY bad. With the sheer amount of revives on the enemy team (Eunie's Ouroboros form having a GROUP revive in addition to the known Crono and Aigis ones), I do think this is likely to go off.

... and I'm not sure if it matters? Like, Raiden is an AWFUL matchup for Ouroboros, as he can just keep cutting off pieces of them before they can even react and properly regenerate. I do think that the revives let Taion get off an optimal debuff strategy, but Ouroboros does not reset on revive - in Xenoblade 3, it explicitly continues cooling down in the background even when you're a corpse. While everyone else gets a ton of shots at max efficiency, Eunie MIGHT be able to squeak out two if she dies, like, a lot. It is possible to see a situation where Raiden is just standing in a field of corpses, waiting for them to revive and casually stabbing them as they get up again like it's whack-a-mole.

I'm trying to figure out how much damage Gordon does and how much he's able to take away from the enemy before he goes down. I think targeting any one of them for stasis is a real bad idea, but crossbowing one of them might be very much within his wheelhouse. The issue is, I'm just seeing Trevor & Sypha open in most situations, and I'm not sure he handles that well with just shooting. Need to think of what terrain advantages he'd have.