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Topic	Was Joel justified in his actions? (Last of Us Spoilers)
Punished_Blinx 03/14/23 10:32:40 PM #129:	KogaSteelfang posted... Why would he constantly be testing healthy people who've had no exposure to it? People travelling into and out of the city, sure. A student whose pretty much under constant supervision who shows no signs of infection? Nah, I don't see why they'd waste time on that. So it's certainly possible that she had never been tested. Besides, both Fedra and the Fireflies don't exactly make smart moves. Fedra is even more incompetent than the Fireflies. What makes you think they have regular city wide screenings of every individual, rather than just testing the ones at risk by going out of the city? What do you think is more likely though? That she was never tested for her entire life (even though she was an obvious risk as a baby) and she would always register as infected or that her recent bite that she was immune against registered her as infected? KogaSteelfang posted... Which means, the only conclusion is that they immediately jumped to killing her as soon as she arrived. They didn't have time to test any of the basic stuff, which would logically take at least a day, probably weeks to do. Both Joel and Ellie are knocked out for an undetermined period of time. The tests could have been done then. We know they at least do a brain scan on her while she is there. The only test that is needed is if her blood doesn't have cordyceps gunk in it. If they established that they need the cordyceps directly from the brain for the cure then that's it. You're arguing that no that wasn't established because we didn't specifically get into every minute detail of what they did. KogaSteelfang posted... This never happened, and we have evidence to the contrary. Since she does test positive. There's no reason to think it's detecting the bite that was nullified rather than her own infection. She's infected, she's tests positive, it's in her system. That's how it's presented to us, and every character that knows about her. There's no reason at all to think otherwise. Sure we do. That happens shortly after she is bitten. Then it never comes up again. It can go either way. Again in order for your hypothesis to be true Ellie would need to have never been tested for her entire life until she was escaping with Joel and we also have to assume that the Fireflies didn't test her blood at all (which isn't a complicated process at all). If we need to assume these things happened in order for the Fireflies to be wrong maybe the simpler explanation is more likely. That the only choice was to get direct access to the cordyceps. In the games we do not know why Ellie is immune. But now we do. She has technically been infected her entire life. KogaSteelfang posted... The brain extends down through the spine. There are also non lethal brain surgeries which could get the cultures they need. Test the blood, if no good. Test a bite. If no good, test spinal fluid and cultures. If no good, perform non lethal surgery to access it. If no good, then there's really only 2 choices left at that point, take the whole brain and try or accept it won't work. They skipped literally every sound option. That's why I think a quick Convo saying they tested her blood or something before sending her would've gone a MASSIVE way to having people side with them and make it more of a moral conundrum rather than us seeing how stupid they were and siding with Joel simply because he's the only competent person in the room. >_> If the blood is no good then why would a bite be any good? Why wouldn't they just test the saliva and blood and establish that isn't a possibility? We know they specifically scan for cordyceps and where they are located. We know they study how cordyceps spread as an infection in people. Again in order for them to be wrong we have to assume that they've made an incorrect assumption instead of just...taking the fictional premise at its word. If they believed those options existed I don't see why they wouldn't have done so. But they clearly do not. Every conversation emphasizes they need the parasite in her brain to get the cure and it's a fatal operation to get it out. There is no information anywhere that contradicts that hypothesis and we both know there isn't going to be one. Even if those conversations were in there anyway people would just say "How do we know they were right" and nothing overly changes. The premise exists as is. The minutia of it aren't important to the story. KogaSteelfang posted... Well first they kill Ellie and remove the brain. Besides neither do they. He was a brain surgeon, not a fungus expert. They were literally just taking a shot in the dark, and that shot just happens to be through a little girl's skull because they can. We know they've been studying the fungus so clearly they have some knowledge in that area. --- A Fallen Mascot <cite>Punished_Blinx posted [p:972179193] in Was Joel j... [t:80378186]...</cite> <quote>KogaSteelfang posted... </cite><quote>Why would he constantly be testing healthy people who've had no exposure to it? People travelling into and out of the city, sure. A student whose pretty much under constant supervision who shows no signs of infection? Nah, I don't see why they'd waste time on that. So it's certainly possible that she had never been tested.Besides, both Fedra and the Fireflies don't exactly make smart moves. Fedra is even more incompetent than the Fireflies. What makes you think they have regular city wide screenings of every individual, rather than just testing the ones at risk by going out of the city?</quote>What do you think is more likely though? That she was never tested for her entire life (even though she was an obvious risk as a baby) and she would always register as infected or that her recent bite that she was immune against registered her as infected?KogaSteelfang posted... </cite><quote>Which means, the only conclusion is that they immediately jumped to killing her as soon as she arrived. They didn't have time to test any of the basic stuff, which would logically take at least a day, probably weeks to do.</quote>Both Joel and Ellie are knocked out for an undetermined period of time. The tests could have been done then. We know they at least do a brain scan on her while she is there.The only test that is needed is if her blood doesn't have cordyceps gunk in it. If they established that they need the cordyceps directly from the brain for the cure then that's it. You're arguing that no that wasn't established because we didn't specifically get into every minute detail of what they did. KogaSteelfang posted... </cite><quote>This never happened, and we have evidence to the contrary. Since she does test positive. There's no reason to think it's detecting the bite that was nullified rather than her own infection. She's infected, she's tests positive, it's in her system. That's how it's presented to us, and every character that knows about her. There's no reason at all to think otherwise.</quote>Sure we do. That happens shortly after she is bitten. Then it never comes up again. It can go either way.Again in order for your hypothesis to be true Ellie would need to have never been tested for her entire life until she was escaping with Joel and we also have to assume that the Fireflies didn't test her blood at all (which isn't a complicated process at all). If we need to assume these things happened in order for the Fireflies to be wrong maybe the simpler explanation is more likely. That the only choice was to get direct access to the cordyceps. In the games we do not know why Ellie is immune. But now we do. She has technically been infected her entire life. KogaSteelfang posted... </cite><quote>The brain extends down through the spine. There are also non lethal brain surgeries which could get the cultures they need. Test the blood, if no good. Test a bite. If no good, test spinal fluid and cultures. If no good, perform non lethal surgery to access it. If no good, then there's really only 2 choices left at that point, take the whole brain and try or accept it won't work. They skipped literally every sound option. That's why I think a quick Convo saying they tested her blood or something before sending her would've gone a MASSIVE way to having people side with them and make it more of a moral conundrum rather than us seeing how stupid they were and siding with Joel simply because he's the only competent person in the room. >_></quote>If the blood is no good then why would a bite be any good? Why wouldn't they just test the saliva and blood and establish that isn't a possibility? We know they specifically scan for cordyceps and where they are located. We know they study how cordyceps spread as an infection in people. Again in order for them to be wrong we have to assume that they've made an incorrect assumption instead of just...taking the fictional premise at its word. If they believed those options existed I don't see why they wouldn't have done so. But they clearly do not. Every conversation emphasizes they need the parasite in her brain to get the cure and it's a fatal operation to get it out. There is no information anywhere that contradicts that hypothesis and we both know there isn't going to be one. Even if those conversations were in there anyway people would just say "How do we know they were right" and nothing overly changes. The premise exists as is. The minutia of it aren't important to the story. KogaSteelfang posted... </cite><quote>Well first they kill Ellie and remove the brain. Besides neither do they. He was a brain surgeon, not a fungus expert. They were literally just taking a shot in the dark, and that shot just happens to be through a little girl's skull because they can.</quote>We know they've been studying the fungus so clearly they have some knowledge in that area. --- A Fallen Mascot</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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