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Topic	The White Settlement shooting shows why everyone needs to take combat training
_AdjI_ 12/30/19 1:55:19 PM #90:	Kyuubi4269 posted... I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol The fact that the word "training" appears in the description of both concepts doesn't make them equivalent. One example of training reduces risk (and, by extension, potential for harm), the other reduces harm after the risk has already happened. Kyuubi4269 posted... Define "reasonable measures". Broadly, measures which are not expected to cost more than the reward they'll yield (both in terms of resources and in terms of human impact). Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there. Specific to this issue? Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals, mandatory waiting period on gun sales (mostly helps with suicides, but also reduces other gun violence), enforcing these requirements on private sales, stricter storage requirements, improved (read: any) access to mental health services, mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention, a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying (in school and otherwise), conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas... there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong. They just require the right to get over the "MUH GUNZ" paranoia instilled by the NRA's propaganda and this obsession with not paying for anyone else's health care regardless of how beneficial it is for the country as a whole. Kyuubi4269 posted... It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them. Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it. That one Onion headline keeps being relevant. Kyuubi4269 posted... What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board. He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat. That's not black-and-white thinking, that's the simple reality of what he was doing. Can it be called trolling? Sure. But that's just as pointless as bringing up that a murderer assaulted their victim. The threat/murder is the important part, not the trolling/assault. KamenRiderBlade posted... Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back. Do you have an AED in your house? <cite>_AdjI_ posted [p:932242682] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol</quote> The fact that the word "training" appears in the description of both concepts doesn't make them equivalent. One example of training reduces risk (and, by extension, potential for harm), the other reduces harm after the risk has already happened. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>Define "reasonable measures".</quote> Broadly, measures which are not expected to cost more than the reward they'll yield (both in terms of resources and in terms of human impact). Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there. Specific to this issue? Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals, mandatory waiting period on gun sales (mostly helps with suicides, but also reduces other gun violence), enforcing these requirements on private sales, stricter storage requirements, improved (read: any) access to mental health services, mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention, a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying (in school and otherwise), conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas... there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong. They just require the right to get over the "MUH GUNZ" paranoia instilled by the NRA's propaganda and this obsession with not paying for anyone else's health care regardless of how beneficial it is for the country as a whole. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them.</quote> Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it. That one Onion headline keeps being relevant. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board.</quote> He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat. That's not black-and-white thinking, that's the simple reality of what he was doing. Can it be called trolling? Sure. But that's just as pointless as bringing up that a murderer assaulted their victim. The threat/murder is the important part, not the trolling/assault. KamenRiderBlade posted... </cite> <quote>Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back.</quote> Do you have an AED in your house? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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