Poll of the Day > People are calling for more government regulation after this United fiasco?

(+) Yeah! (+)

berniepanders posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

yeah because places like nazi germany, fascist italy, north korea, etc. are such great places. they had so many rules, and so much order!

Yes. I totally meant something so extreme.

</Sarcasm>

berniepanders posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

yeah because places like nazi germany, fascist italy, north korea, etc. are such great places. they had so many rules, and so much order!

Nazi Germany made the autobahn and the beetle and North Korean defectors find South Korea cold and harsh, while the US has Trump and six figure medical/academic debt. There's plenty of problems with communist dictatorships, but effective regulations aren't one of them.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

berniepanders posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

yeah because places like nazi germany, fascist italy, north korea, etc. are such great places. they had so many rules, and so much order!

Nazi Germany made the autobahn and the beetle and North Korean defectors find South Korea cold and harsh, while the US has Trump and six figure medical/academic debt. There's plenty of problems with communist dictatorships, but effective regulations aren't one of them.

Effective government regulation does not exist and if you think otherwise then....
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The free market doesn't self-regulate because people are involved, and people are assholes.
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just fyi, that united flight wasn't overbooked.

they wanted the seats for their staff.
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When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. And, because that hammer is used extensively, pretty every issue -- no matter how minor -- has people clamoring for laws to fix it. In a broader sense, though, it's a kinda douche practice and it's an industry-wide practice that's entrenched itself in the culture. And, in all honesty, if you're deliberately over-booking, that's almost tantamount to fraud.

TyVulpine posted...

Deregulate? Yeah, deregulation is never a good thing. Just ask the housing industry how deregulating back in the early 2000's went...

Speaking in absolutes is absolutely stupid.

Plus your example is garbage for countless reasons, starting with how completely unrelated it is to the subject at hand to the fact that it's a laughably broad generalization (in fact, it's like arguing against governments making anything a crime by pointing out that prohibition was repealed) to the fact that you oversimplified a complex, multifaceted problem which, to a large extent, wouldn't have been possible without the government having been involved in the first place. Even without the credit default swaps,

Erik_P posted...

berniepanders posted...

lol, plenty of industries maintain a high standard of service without the government having to tell them to

keep pretending you know what you're talking about though hahahahahahaha

Ok, so name one.

I just want to circle around to the absurdity of that question. Do you honestly believe that even one industry can maintain a standard of service without intervention? Bearing in mind that virtually every industry is burdened by onerous regulations so finding one that's actually completely unregulated is almost impossible. Even your local convenience store is subject to tons of laws, many of which do nothing to actually increase the value they provide and mostly serve to increase prices (and, of course, give jobs to government workers). And, as it stands, airlines are already heavily regulated.

That's in addition to the general subjectivity regarding the nature of service. And, of course, on any number of our levels the service we get from industries is often *worse* due to regulations because tighter profit margins reduces the kinds of things they can offer. So, in many cases, those regulations can ensure that you're getting lower standard of service. Which isn't to say that service and quality shouldn't be sacrificed for regulations at times because, for instance, there are a lot of regulations which might make planes less likely to crash. Granted, *most* major companies would voluntarily do those things anyway, but it helps you catch some of the fly-by-night (pun!) companies.
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They're going to weather this and it will blow over in a month at which point it will be business as usual and they'll continue fucking over passengers who aren't lucky enough to go viral. The Internet has the shortest memory ever. This will change nothing without something more concrete.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

berniepanders posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

yeah because places like nazi germany, fascist italy, north korea, etc. are such great places. they had so many rules, and so much order!

Nazi Germany made the autobahn and the beetle and North Korean defectors find South Korea cold and harsh, while the US has Trump and six figure medical/academic debt. There's plenty of problems with communist dictatorships, but effective regulations aren't one of them.

Tell that to Mao's Great Leap Forward. At any rate, your examples are bizarre and more than a little silly especially since you're implying that Trump is a worse leader than guys who sent all of the intellectuals to labor camps (because, you know, taking many of the smartest people in your society and forcing them to do menial tasks is a *great* use of labor!)
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Zeus posted...

Speaking in absolutes is absolutely stupid.

https://i.redd.it/iqssg1l0k7my.png

helIy posted...

just fyi, that united flight wasn't overbooked.

they wanted the seats for their staff.

As helly says, directly contradicting every single media report available.

To clarify, I'm saying all the media reports say the flight was overbooked.
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iwantmyoldid posted...

Yes. I totally meant something so extreme.

your exact words:

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

a blanket assessment that more rules = better.

now of course you're trying to backpedal because it's been pointed out how ridiculous that is.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

berniepanders posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

The more rules and order guiding a place, the better.

yeah because places like nazi germany, fascist italy, north korea, etc. are such great places. they had so many rules, and so much order!

Nazi Germany made the autobahn and the beetle and North Korean defectors find South Korea cold and harsh, while the US has Trump and six figure medical/academic debt. There's plenty of problems with communist dictatorships, but effective regulations aren't one of them.

there are times to play devil's advocate.

was this really one of them?

helIy posted...

just fyi, that united flight wasn't overbooked.

they wanted the seats for their staff.

And they had to give those seats to the staff because union rules state that they have to have a certain # of attendants on every flight and they needed them in their destination city

So the airline had to choose between pissing off its customers or pissing off the union (they will always choose the customer in that case)

Unions are commie socialis t bullshit
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Troll_Police_ posted...

So the airline had to choose between pissing off its customers or pissing off the union

Or, you know, they could have just been organized enough to know where staff would be needed and not sell seats that weren't available, thereby not pissing off anyone. There really isn't any excuse for that kind of screw-up, and there DEFINITELY isn't any excuse for trying to pass such a screw-up on to the customer instead of eating the costs themselves.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

Effective government regulation does not exist and if you think otherwise then....

Are you really so ignorant as to believe rules and order that work don't exist?

Zeus posted...

Tell that to Mao's Great Leap Forward.

I didn't bring up China, but the Wikipedia article says it was a push toward rapid industrialisation, which evidently happened.

Zeus posted...

At any rate, your examples are bizarre and more than a little silly especially since you're implying that Trump is a worse leader than guys who sent all of the intellectuals to labor camps (because, you know, taking many of the smartest people in your society and forcing them to do menial tasks is a *great* use of labor!)

He's pushing in that direction despite being the US president. He's a worse leader in a stronger, more independent country.

berniepanders posted...

there are times to play devil's advocate.

was this really one of them?

It's pretty closed-minded to write off an person's capability because of their reputation.
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these staff members were unrelated to the flights staff iirc
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helIy posted...

these staff members were unrelated to the flights staff iirc

Yep, it was just a matter of getting them where they needed to be for another flight today.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

North Korean defectors find South Korea cold and harsh

But at least they have food. Beggars can't be choosers.
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Wth UA's police brutality has to do with the amount of fake garbage companies are allowed to market as food is what I want to know.

United's new slogan "If we can't beat our competitors, we'll beat our customers!"
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Heck, if flights for those destinations really are around $200 like you guys are saying then United could have just sent those workers on a different flight (even from a different airline). 200x4 = the cheap ass 800 they offered and saves them bad rep at the same time.

I honestly cannot see how any person could put any blame ("immature") on the customer's side.

iwantmyoldid posted...

Heck, if flights for those destinations really are around $200 like you guys are saying then United could have just sent those workers on a different flight (even from a different airline). 200x4 = the cheap ass 800 they offered and saves them bad rep at the same time.

I honestly cannot see how any person could put any blame ("immature") on the customer's side.

Staff definitely need to go now (and with that airline), passengers don't necessarily.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

iwantmyoldid posted...

Heck, if flights for those destinations really are around $200 like you guys are saying then United could have just sent those workers on a different flight (even from a different airline). 200x4 = the cheap ass 800 they offered and saves them bad rep at the same time.

I honestly cannot see how any person could put any blame ("immature") on the customer's side.

Staff definitely need to go now (and with that airline), passengers don't necessarily.

The passengers got chosen at random. How in hell can you tell how urgent or not their situation is?

The staff was not for that same flight, they could have taken the next available plane

So you're saying you'd rather see an airline do something bad and get punished for it (maybe, assuming a video of it goes viral) rather than not have them do a bad thing at all?

OK.
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darkknight109 posted...

So you're saying you'd rather see an airline do something bad and get punished for it (maybe, assuming a video of it goes viral) rather than not have them do a bad thing at all?

OK.

Is that directed at me?

iwantmyoldid posted...

darkknight109 posted...

So you're saying you'd rather see an airline do something bad and get punished for it (maybe, assuming a video of it goes viral) rather than not have them do a bad thing at all?

OK.

Is that directed at me?

It's directed at the TC and anyone who's agreeing with him.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It's pretty closed-minded to write off an person's capability because of their reputation.

hahahahaha dude are you high? sue me for not wanting to take cues on how to run a society from nazi fucking germany lol

iwantmyoldid posted...

The passengers got chosen at random. How in hell can you tell how urgent or not their situation is?

You can't, and people lie, so you average out the probable urgency of the current group (which is below absolutely this minute urgent) and pick at random from the group.

iwantmyoldid posted...

The staff was not for that same flight, they could have taken the next available plane

The next available flight would be later, and every second they are not at their destination is lost revenue as the staff still needs to be paid even if they haven't been given work. This is absolutely urgent to the minute and takes precedence over the majority of passengers.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

The next available flight would be later, and every second they are not at their destination is lost revenue as the staff still needs to be paid even if they haven't been given work.

This is also true for literally everyone else on the plane who had to work the next day. Which, I'd wager, was a majority of them.

United created this problem by overbooking the flight; they should, by all rights, wear the consequences. If they don't like having to pay for having their employees sit idle, well, next time don't oversell the flight.
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