Board 8 > FFXIV Raiding > WoW Raiding

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alexander > Ulduar.
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Tbf anything > WoW
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Are you also one of those guys that runs around yelling "DOTA 2 IS BETTER THAN LOL" because you're insecure?
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Wedge Antilles posted...

"DOTA 2 IS BETTER THAN LOL"

Both of those suck.
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Not > Ulduar.

Better than a lot of WoW raiding though. Ulduar is still in a class on its own in that regard.
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Airship_Canon posted...

Wedge Antilles posted...

"DOTA 2 IS BETTER THAN LOL"

Both of those suck.

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can't really say as I haven't played FFXIV

but Ulduar was fucking awesome
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I agree with this, but to each their own.
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Pretty much all of BC and Lich King raids were the pinnacle of MMO raiding, let alone Ulduar specifically.
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My brother is getting into ffxiv, so I was thinking of playing as a bonding mechanism

I was a little worried about spending time in an mmo with worse raiding than I'm used to.

You really think they're comparable/ff is better?
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banananor posted...

My brother is getting into ffxiv, so I was thinking of playing as a bonding mechanism

I was a little worried about spending time in an mmo with worse raiding than I'm used to.

You really think they're comparable/ff is better?

Admittedly I haven't raided in WoW in quite a long time (since Wrath) and I'm sure WoW has improved since then, but yeah I think FF14 is some of the best raiding I've seen and done.

tcaz2 posted...

I'm sure WoW has improved since then

You'd be wrong.
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How would you compare them? what makes ffxiv raiding better?
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I'm curious what was so great about Ulduar. That was basically the point at which I got out of raiding. I had waited months for an actual raiding experience (that wasn't Karazhan, which I had already done in vanilla,) gotten bored, and stopped raiding. Then Ulduar comes along, has some obnoxious vehicle event, followed by a bunch of encounters that were maybe on par with Black Temple, and I'm left going "This is what the entire WoW community was waiting for? What do we do once we clear it?"

And that answer didn't come around for a very long time, either, because ICC took almost a year after that.
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Alexander? Really? And here I thought this topic was gonna be about Susano-o who has DAT HYPHY
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azuarc posted...

"This is what the entire WoW community was waiting for? What do we do once we clear it?"

Hard modes.

If you didn't clear Yogg with no keepers and Algalon, then you didn't clear Ulduar.

If you did all that and early enough that you got bored of the game then.... uhh...

#progamerproblems
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Alexander? Really?

A11S and A12S were pretty sick to be fair

And probably A8S but me and my group were too much of scrubs to get there.

But what makes ff raiding different from wow raiding?

I know switching classes is easier and dps meters are against the tos and that's about it
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Alexander? Really? And here I thought this topic was gonna be about Susano-o who has DAT HYPHY

Shh.

I compare Alex against Uld for the feel.
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banananor posted...

dps meters are against the tos and that's about it

Oh LOL is this really true?
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I think they turn a blind eye as long as you don't tell other players their dps is low

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/5yq9gj/dps_meter/

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/5yq9gj/dps_meter/
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It's technically illegal but never enforced unless you shout out numbers to the heavens.
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redrocket_pub posted...

banananor posted...

dps meters are against the tos and that's about it

Oh LOL is this really true?

Basically.

SE isn't going to stop you from using a parser... on yourself.

But if you say anything in game about using a parser, you can get banned. And if someone Blue Falcons your FC for using one, your FC can get disbanded and bans go out.

What it comes down to is, you can parse your own DPS. But you can't brag or call others out, because in doing so you admit to using an external program, which is against the rules.

WHICH IS GREAT.
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So the secret of FF XIV raiding is revealed.

It's super casual mode.
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how can i possibly know for sure how much better i am than everyone else without dps meters
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I'll be honest, that doesn't sound completely terrible

kind of like wow's normal (formerly flex) mode, where the dps requirements are very low and the enemy hp/damage gently scales based on how many players are in the raid between 10 and 30


It did kind of suck in guild wars 2 when we needed to split dps or we'r ofe missing some kind
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*or we're missing some kind of dps check and can't tell why

But it's just about managing expectations
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Man the mobile site is bad...
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DPS checks very much exist in FF14. In 2.x it was the hardest class to play optimally although 3.x made them a bit easier.

Every raid group uses parsers.
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The bigger effect is it cuts player drama back.

...and imo I find fights like Ark/Cruise Chaser (Blassty) to be harder than Mythics/HMs on peak gear, the content runs better too.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Every raid group uses parsers.

Ok guys, you need to decide.

FF XIV raiding is better because no meters...

Or

Everyone actually uses meters anyway.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
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People use parsers whenever they want they can't just be open about it in public, meaning that premades are free to talk about whatever they feel like as always while strangers don't have to worry about people mouthing off about DPS in public instances

It's not that complicated!
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It sounds pretty complicated since someone said that if your guild gets reported for using parsers you all get banned.
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I've never heard of that happening.
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CoolCly posted...

It sounds pretty complicated since someone said that if your guild gets reported for using parsers you all get banned.

Yeah, that seems like it could be problematic!
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CoolCly posted...

It sounds pretty complicated since someone said that if your guild gets reported for using parsers you all get banned.

People who use the parser do, if it's bad enough in leadership and all the free company gets disbanded - not whole guild banned. I've seen that shit happen first hand.

As a result of the rules overall, parsers are not common.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Every raid group uses parsers.

Fake news then?
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https://www.fflogs.com/

This is a very popular public site where people upload parser results with their names & server clearly labeled. It's what people use to compare results against raids and extreme bosses. Square doesn't care. I have no idea what these other groups are doing that they're getting disbanded!
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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.fflogs.com/

This is a very popular public site where people upload parser results with their names & server clearly labeled. It's what people use to compare results against raids and extreme bosses. Square doesn't care. I have no idea what these other groups are doing that they're getting disbanded!

Blue Falconing.

Or basically someone involved got told shit, reported shit.

Anyway, SE wound up with player names for external programs. They got banned. The FC was simply no more after that and a couple members were blocked from making an FC as well.

I'll get details tomorrow. I was there but not involved in the actual incident.

Basically though, the rule on parsers really is you can use it as a tool for your own sake, but use it to brag or harass or other shit along those lines and you'll meet a hammering. Meter toxicity like in WoW is something that gets you banned.
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Yeah so nobody has ever actually gotten their group disbanded or banned for simply using a parser. If you're hearing that its a tall tale myth.

It's technically against the ToS but Square doesn't care as long as you don't harass people for having low DPS. Yoshida has even said as much in the E3 live letter.



And DPS checks are absolutely a thing in FF14. They can be quite strict too, and FF14 rotations are much harder to execute than most of WoW's (barring like, old Feral Druid and such).

I don't know if that really has anything to do with them being 'better' though. FF14 just has really fun encounter design usually. It has its ups and downs like anything, but I'd say they lean towards 'very fun and engaging' more often than not.

redrocket_pub posted...

KamikazePotato posted...

Every raid group uses parsers.

Ok guys, you need to decide.

FF XIV raiding is better because no meters...

Or

Everyone actually uses meters anyway.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

I mean, what level of difficulty content are you doing?

Susano?
Susano XTREME?
Actual top end raiding?
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i guess my question is... what do you do when your group isn't meeting a dps check?

are you allowed to replace the low DPSer? or is that a no-no, since you're not supposed to be able to tell who has low dps
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but still, forgetting the dps stuff, i'm still interested in the differences between wow and ffxiv raiding
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banananor posted...

i guess my question is... what do you do when your group isn't meeting a dps check?

are you allowed to replace the low DPSer? or is that a no-no, since you're not supposed to be able to tell who has low dps

I mean...for 95%+ of content in the game low DPS is just not why you wipe. You wipe because people don't dodge, or understand boss mechanics, or because the healer or tank mess up. For the kind of battles you'd use a party finder for, DPS are really the least important role.

No really, I did a run of Shinryu tonight where three of the DPS dealt less damage than the tank (Paladin). We wiped a few times, but better healer play might have prevented the wipes.

Actually hard DPS checks are used for the high-end raids that 99% of the playerbase never clears. You don't do pick up groups for these fights. People form fixed teams, with raid schcedules, hold tryouts to get onto the teams.
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Huff n puff 20 posted...

KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.fflogs.com/

This is a very popular public site where people upload parser results with their names & server clearly labeled. It's what people use to compare results against raids and extreme bosses. Square doesn't care. I have no idea what these other groups are doing that they're getting disbanded!

Blue Falconing.

Or basically someone involved got told shit, reported shit.

Anyway, SE wound up with player names for external programs. They got banned. The FC was simply no more after that and a couple members were blocked from making an FC as well.

I'll get details tomorrow. I was there but not involved in the actual incident.

Basically though, the rule on parsers really is you can use it as a tool for your own sake, but use it to brag or harass or other shit along those lines and you'll meet a hammering. Meter toxicity like in WoW is something that gets you banned.

Really? The only time I've heard people getting banned due to parsers was because FFlogs very clearly showed them cheating to increase DPS which then got reported to SE.

azuarc posted...

(that wasn't Karazhan, which I had already done in vanilla,) gotten bored

o rly
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neonreaper posted...

azuarc posted...

(that wasn't Karazhan, which I had already done in vanilla,) gotten bored

o rly

ahaha, pretty much everything about that post was perfect

claiming karazhan was in vanilla
claiming ulduar was the top tier content for a year (it was 4 months)
soft claiming he finished ulduar and had nothing left to do

10/10
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and thanks for the answers. it sounds like ffxiv is basically easy old wow, which is pretty good. my brother was saying samurai and black mage were noticably the best dps, so it does really feel like old wow, where things aren't very balanced and stuff is just fun

i was always hesitant to raid with real life friends because i knew some of them would be bad, and it would be an awkward situation overall

if dps doesn't really matter (but i guess some people are saying it does?) this'll be a perfect casual mmo to play with friends. i'm still holding out for destiny 2 to be honest
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In fairness it has been like 8 years, I can forgive him if he just forgot.
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i agree

it's just a strange venn diagram of people who would know about all that stuff, be hardcore enough at the game to supposedly complete all endgame content (during a period where a handful of guilds did so), yet also not remember anything about it
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