Board 8 > Let's talk about MGSV: The greatest game to ever suck *endgame spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just finished MGSV and I have a few notes

-I've always thought keifer sutherland was a bad actor, but this game is basically the smoking gun of hack acting. Dude doesn't understand inflection, and is incapable of reading his lines in any matter other than a dad reading a storytime book to his fifth kid that he doesn't really care about.

-I started playing this game after zelda, and I was very impressed by the way the horse in this game can take big leaps, and go over rough terrain. Then I learned big boss can't go up rocks with a slight slant and inclines above 45 degrees.

-Afganistan seems designed to waste your time, the way you can't get to point a to point b without planning a weird route through the plateaus

-The endgame spoiler? That Venom snake isn't naked snake? Why did they have to hit us over the head with it (to the point of reminding us before and after EVERY mission) Why did they spend the ENTIRE game being like "This isn't snake bt dubs, figure it out" to figure out it was really..... snake's nameless doctor? Why did I have to go through the prologue again???

-Quiet's speaking english was dumb as hell too? How many times have I requested a helicopter in a sandstorm? They land at the drop point and wait, that's the procedure! Oh whoops sorry I guess THIS time there were cobras and the pilot forgot protocol and no one thought to ask code talker to translate.

-The whole game seems to run on timers. Dispatch missions, development, it's all very slow and it adds nothing to the game. Even showing pictures to paz is a matter of show, fly off base, show, etc. It didn't need to be this slow.

-Basically all three main characters were interchangeable in character. It was hard keeping track of who was talking. Code talker and quiet were cool, and I wasn't really on board with making huey a lunatic who killed his wife for no reason (it basically was no reason, I listened to all the cassettes)

THAT said the gameplay was great when it was great. D-Dog is the best companion in gaming, decoys NEVER stopped being funny, and the scene where huey kills skull face is probably the hardest I've laughed this year.

I really liked the cassette tape story method as opposed to the codec system, it allows you to tune in as needed while you're doing other stuff. I recently replayed mgs3 and while I LOVE the characters in 3, the codecs just drag on way too long. Imagine Para-medic talking about 80s movies while you run across africa (huge missed opportunity) . I loved collecting music from missions.

It's too bad this is the last kojima metal gear game we will ever get, because I would totally play "teenage liquid and psycho mantis take on the world."

Overall: great game it's just a shame it has such a crusty buildup around the whole thing
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

because I would totally play "teenage liquid and psycho mantis take on the world."

this would be terrible
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Why did I have to go through the prologue again???

To be fair I actually liked this part because it made me realize Quiet was the assassin at the beginning, which I didn't catch because I never watched any trailers or knew who Quiet was until I played the game. That was cool.

But the other 59 minutes of the intro were pointless to replay.
---

I would like to just re address that "venom snake is actually snake's dentist" spoiler might be the worst twist I've ever come across. It sets itself up as a solvable mystery, so I was analyzing every clue I could find to see if I could figure it out before the reveal, even going so far as to translate code talker's navajo, replaying old games to see who could fit the profile.

and then it turns out the twist is just... it wasn't snake all along.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Imagine Para-medic talking about 80s movies while you run across africa

Para-medic is an actual character with a relationship with Snake so that wouldn't work. Tapes only work in this game because 100% of characters are just walking exposition machines (except Quiet who THANK GOD cannot speak).
---

foolm0r0n posted...

To be fair I actually liked this part because it made me realize Quiet was the assassin at the beginning, which I didn't catch because I never watched any trailers or knew who Quiet was until I played the game. That was cool.

don't they go over her being the assassin in the "Quiet's Exit" mission right before?
---

well Para-Medic wouldn't work because she's evil at this point
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

I would like to just re address that "venom snake is actually snake's dentist" spoiler might be the worst twist I've ever come across. It sets itself up as a solvable mystery, so I was analyzing every clue I could find to see if I could figure it out before the reveal, even going so far as to translate code talker's navajo, replaying old games to see who could fit the profile.

and then it turns out the twist is just... it wasn't snake all along.

Yeah but now we finally cleared up the plot hole of why Big Boss could be in Outer Heaven and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why he was still alive in Metal Gear 2!
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Para-medic is an actual character with a relationship with Snake so that wouldn't work. Tapes only work in this game because 100% of characters are just walking exposition machines (except Quiet who THANK GOD cannot speak).

that's exactly what I'm saying! My favorite part of this game is exploring the world while hearing miller and code talker talk about burgers. There ARE cassettes that explore genuine relationships between people, but they're so rare. It would have been fine to have para-medic or sigint meet back up with snake (they worked with him in port-ops) and for kojima to just do what he does and rewrite a character or loop around a plotline to have them there. They could have cut a few of the 500 tapes where code talker talks about parasites.

I admit paramedic would be weird because she would be around to be like "uhh eli is def a clone of big boss so his DNA should match" but again, that issue can be dealt with with convoluted writing which is what the series is all about.
---

pjbasis posted...

Yeah but now we finally cleared up the plot hole of why Big Boss could be in Outer Heaven and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why he was still alive in Metal Gear 2!

I don't think anyone has ever played those games
---

not many people played them but MGS fans are generally aware of what happened in them because of how plot-heavy the series is
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

don't they go over her being the assassin in the "Quiet's Exit" mission right before?

I probably wasn't paying attention but yeah
---

LeonhartFour posted...

well Para-Medic wouldn't work because she's evil at this point

What a good character that would be to have though

SantaRPidgey posted...

There ARE cassettes that explore genuine relationships between people

Well not even. The absolute tippy top of this is the burger tapes (which is super sad in itself), but even those tapes weren't really about relationships. It was just a quirk of Miller's, giving just him a tiny bit of personality. Didn't involve Snake or anyone else.

Quiet is the strongest relationship in the game and she is literally equated to a dog for the vast majority of it.
---

Well, none of the character building moments involve Snake because he has no character. Any chances for him to have characterization are relegated to a 10 minute car ride where nobody says anything so they have to play Sins of the Father instead.

The Zero tapes were the best part of the game though.
---

pjbasis posted...

Yeah but now we finally cleared up the plot hole of why Big Boss could be in Outer Heaven and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why he was still alive in Metal Gear 2!

Yeah, and thank God MGSV also made sure to clear up the plot hole of why Liquid Snake could be in Shadow Moses and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why Big Boss was still alive after Metal Gear 2!

hey awesomestevr is it the awesomest ever or the awesome steve r?
---

theawesomestevr posted...

pjbasis posted...

Yeah but now we finally cleared up the plot hole of why Big Boss could be in Outer Heaven and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why he was still alive in Metal Gear 2!

Yeah, and thank God MGSV also made sure to clear up the plot hole of why Liquid Snake could be in Shadow Moses and talking to you over codec at the same time! And why Big Boss was still alive after Metal Gear 2!

That's obviously going to be covered in MGSSIX
---

I was hoping they'd take care of it in Metal Gear Survive One, but I guess I can wait til number 6.

I agree with everything except

SantaRPidgey posted...

I wasn't really on board with making huey a lunatic who killed his wife for no reason (it basically was no reason, I listened to all the cassettes)

Huey's entire personality in Peace Walker was just a watered-down Otacon, which felt really stupid (especially when you already had Strangelove for the tech person in that game). So I actually like that they made him a spectacular piece of shit. At the very least, it was interesting.
---

I mean, he was basically a whiny psychopath. Theres no way to make that into a good character. He was also used as an anti-twist. Everyone was so adamant about huey being a traitor, you expect some sort of complex motivation behind huey's actions.

But nope he's just a weiner psychopath. He was just a weiner all along and you wasted your brain power speculating his motivation.
---

Well I don't use my brainpower to try to call the game's goofy plot, aside from the "puzzle" of the language parasite. I was surprised by the Venom Snake thing too. That's still not a good twist, but maybe it's a matter of expectation.

I don't know if I'd call Huey a good character, he's basically just an "evil" Otacon to mirror the "evil" Snake, but he still manages to be one of the most interesting in the cast! At the very least he's fun to hate on so I think he's used well enough.
---

Truth Tapes were pretty outstanding

They were like a mini-explosion of "normal Metal Gear" in amongst a game that was mostly completely different to what came before it.

Unapologetic fan of the twist though.
---

I feel conflicted about the game. It's got a fantastic skeleton of gameplay, but almost no bosses or really complex interesting areas to infiltrate ala Groznyj Grad. It's just "go here, blow up this thing" or "go here, kill/kidnap this guy" missions repeated ad naseum.

It also doesn't help that Ocelot acts nothing like himself, Snake is boring (I know it's the point to have a stand-in for the player this time, but he's still boring), and there's no real CODEC. And if you want to listen to the tapes during missions, you should have some way to pause them when characters interrupt to tell you about the mission.
---

This is the only time ever that we see Ocelot acting like himself
---

XIII_rocks posted...

This is the only time ever that we see Ocelot acting like himself

Yeah, I've seen that argument before too, but Ocelot every other time was a weird torture fetishist who loved his specific Colt revolver and insanely convoluted plans. The only torture he does in this game is presented like a grim necessity he takes no pleasure in, he uses a different gun for no reason, and I guess he still has a weird plan, but that's about it. As far as it matters he's a completely different person in this game, which you can argue makes sense, but this Ocelot is less interesting than the wacky version in other games.
---

As a fan of the MSX games the plot twist was exactly what I was hoping for
---

I love MGSV but agree with everything the OP said. There's an endless list of outrageously huge problems with the game, I can't believe I still like it. There are so many dumb things to list it would take forever to write them all down.

The absolute dumbest stuff I think is:

* how the main plot ends...but then oh wait, here is a short second chapter that actually has really good cutscenes in it but doesn't go anywhere and is clearly unfinished

* totally unclear how to keep unlocking missions during second chapter

* all the base management is like a totally separate game, and also barely a game

* the game encourages you to be as stealthy as possible, and yet your reward for that is always loud explosive stuff that you are discouraged from using

* playing the prologue twice, yup, wtf
---

So basically Ocelot is like Game of Thrones' Varys, who was the arch-schemer and pretty mysterious until the endgame where his intent was laid bare and he became a less interesting character.

I'm not going to lie, this Ocelot was not nearly as compelling as in his other appearances, but I did kind of like his outright admiration and deference towards Big Boss being laid somewhat bare. It added more to that side of him, whereas we'd already seen him be crazy scheming guy in 4 games prior to that.
---

Oh also, I really enjoyed the FOB infiltration for a while. I thought that was a great way to handle the endgame. The lack of variety in the stages is a shame but it allows you to have that focussed infiltration that the main game mostly lacked. The mission at OKB-Zero also provided this. It's a very fun slice of raw gameplay.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

This is the only time ever that we see Ocelot acting like himself

yeah, imagine how depressed you would be if you had to babysit some random jerk pretending to be your mancrush while knowing the real one was off being a badass without you
---

He didn't know

He underwent hypnotherapy and whatever
---

XIII_rocks posted...

until the endgame where his intent was laid bare and he became a less interesting character.

This doesn't apply to him though because his intent was laid bare at the verrrrrrrry end of the story, and it was so intensely, GROSSLY badass. There should've been no chance for him to be uninteresting. Like the arc of Ocelot from MGS 1 through 4 was so brilliant, to come back to the character and treat him like V treated him is just a huge insult.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

This is the only time ever that we see Ocelot acting like himself

technically not since he was self-hypnotized the whole time

The Truth Tapes are probably the only time you see the "real" Ocelot, but I feel like he wasn't written very well.
---

Truth Tapes Ocelot had him hating the French, that was peak Ocelot

Apart from in MGS2 where he also hated the French
---

Ocelot deliberately refusing to pronounce French properly was kinda dumb actually
---

He never trusts a Frenchman

Why would he trust their language
---

Regarding the prologue, I always figured the original idea was to have you replay it as "Ishmael". That would have made a lot of sense. Instead at some point like so many of things in this game it got scrapped or put on the backburner and they never really figured out what to do with that once the game got gutted.

This is purely speculation, mind you.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

He never trusts a Frenchman

Why would he trust their language

I mean he pronounces it correctly in every other game
---

This is real Ocelot though

Real Ocelot spits on the French, and their language

Go Ocelot
---

he spits on the French in every iteration

the reason you know he hates the French in the first place is MGS2
---

Real Ocelot apparently can't speak Russian either cuz it's too hard
---

I liked the Venom twist, because I always thought Portable Ops/Peacewalker/MGS4 went way too hard on making Big Boss into this tragic hero, even though he's a flat out lunatic in MG2.

Like we'd already seen his legend wasn't entirely of his own making given The Boss threw the fight against him, early on in MGSV we're told that his surviving MSF soldiers spread word about him and helped make him a legend while he was in a coma, and then it turns out the majority of BB's legend is actually just his best soldier acting out an idealized version of BB better than BB himself probably could've done. It's like how Raiden was a nobody that got made into an equal to Solid Snake. That, and using Venom like that (especially given how he felt about what they did to The Boss) is a better fit for sliding into how he is in MG2 than killing child soldiers would've been.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

-I've always thought keifer sutherland was a bad actor, but this game is basically the smoking gun of hack acting. Dude doesn't understand inflection, and is incapable of reading his lines in any matter other than a dad reading a storytime book to his fifth kid that he doesn't really care about.

I think it's mostly that he's like "lol videogames" and basically just took the job for the money and didn't have an ounce of passion for it.

SantaRPidgey posted...

-The endgame spoiler? That Venom snake isn't naked snake? Why did they have to hit us over the head with it (to the point of reminding us before and after EVERY mission) Why did they spend the ENTIRE game being like "This isn't snake bt dubs, figure it out" to figure out it was really..... snake's nameless doctor? Why did I have to go through the prologue again???

I don't understand your problem? (Aside from the prologue part.)

The twist was awesome.

KJH posted...

he's a flat out lunatic in MG2.

No, he isn't. He's a "shades of grey" villain already there. Reading the rest of your rant, you've failed to understand Big Boss' character entirely.
---

KJH posted...

It's like how Raiden was a nobody that got made into an equal to Solid Snake

That's true but they already did that story like 6 games before
---

There's also the fact that everything in MGS2 led up to its twist, even down to things like the way hallways were designed, whereas that's not the case in MGSV. You just get a hint every so often.
---

and the hint is usually just "STARING "VENOM" SNAKE"
---

Venom "Punished" Snake
---

Directed by: Video Kojima
Written by: Hideo Vojima
---

LeonhartFour posted...

Venom "Punished" Snake

the fact I didn't remember this proves repetition learning doesn't work
---

doesn't work for you maybe

I beat the game two years ago and I still can't forget it
---