Board 8 > Xenoblade Chronicles 2's "loot box" thing is the worst thing in gaming

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mac Arrowny posted...

Nobody said anything about the quality of the game, just you having trouble with the bosses.

Mac Arrowny posted...

So you're saying the game's bad because shitty forum posters tell you to use specific blades to beat specific bosses?

Again, please stop assuming and thinking I'm trashing the game. I'm trashing the mechanic, nothing more.
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LeonhartFour posted...

the more I hear about this game the more I feel like I shouldn't play it

Everything outside of the blade gacha is really good, and you technically don't have to get blades past the story ones.

It's just something the game really pushes as new and exciting early on and then you find out the gacha of it is just horrible
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I am curious though which bosses you're referring to that people are saying to use specific Blades for. Is it like a situation where you want to seal an enemy attack through specific blade combos, and thus you'd want to have the right elements on the right weapon types?
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mnkboy907 posted...

I am curious though which bosses you're referring to that people are saying to use specific Blades for. Is it like a situation where you want to seal an enemy attack through specific blade combos, and thus you'd want to have the right elements on the right weapon types?

Pretty much, yeah. It's not so much a problem as... A major annoyance because of how getting them works.

Like, I just power through the battles because whatever, but knowing there's a better way to do it that means I need to do the gacha more makes me a sad pigeonraptor.
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StealThisSheen posted...

makes me a sad pigeonraptor.

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SaveEstelle posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

makes me a sad pigeonraptor.

You really get me
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StealThisSheen posted...

Mac Arrowny posted...

Nobody said anything about the quality of the game, just you having trouble with the bosses.

Mac Arrowny posted...

So you're saying the game's bad because shitty forum posters tell you to use specific blades to beat specific bosses?

Again, please stop assuming and thinking I'm trashing the game. I'm trashing the mechanic, nothing more.

Calling it "the worst thing in gaming" is really much even for hyperbole. It's a mild annoyance at worst. And if you're having trouble with bosses in this game then I don't know what to say. I don't have an optimized Blade Set up at all and I tear them apart so fast it's actually kind of sad.
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Nah, it's definitely more than a mild annoyance. Introducing gacha elements into single player games is definitely an okay thing to call horrible.
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It's a pretty stupid system
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I think in order to be more fun they needed a lot more unique blades and less/none of the generic ones
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StealThisSheen posted...

Nah, it's definitely more than a mild annoyance. Introducing gacha elements into single player games is definitely an okay thing to call horrible.

You didn't call it "horrible", you said it was "the worst thing in gaming" and said that it prevented you from enjoying the game.

Again, my counter-argument is that while it's a terrible system it doesn't really prevent you from playing the game well (as you implied by saying you needed specific Blades to get past bosses, which is absolutely not true). I've played RPGs with worse skill growth systems, and it's not too hard to work around this one. Enemies drop Core Crystals like crazy (I already have way more than I know what to do with), all you really need is a varied amount of elements to do well, and Common Blades are just as useful than Rares (and often more so if you get a good one) so it doesn't really impede you to not have a bunch of rares (even if I don't think they're as cool).

I mean, I don't like the system at all, but it's not the worse.
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*uses up 22 common cores, 15 rare, 2 legendary*

*nothing but generics*

:|
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Nobody said anything about the quality of the game,

is nobody listening to me
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CelesMyUserName posted...

*uses up 22 common cores, 15 rare, 2 legendary*

*nothing but generics*

:|

Hahahaha.

Imagine using 200+ commons, 80+ rates and getting nothing. After like 2 hours of grinding crabs.
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I'm still hoping that people find a way to better exploit the system. Or a future DLC package gives you a few guaranteed Rares.

I haven't started grinding for Cores yet but I can tell the grind will be arduous.

I'm also confused about the OP comment that you need certain Blades to beat bosses. There were a couple of field checks in the story where you needed certain Blade types, but not bosses.
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CelesMyUserName posted...

*uses up 22 common cores, 15 rare, 2 legendary*

*nothing but generics*

:|

That's cute

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/204208-xenoblade-chronicles-2/76174136
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TheRewster posted...

By far the most annoying thing about opening crystals en masse is every so often having to stop because you run out of room and have to painstakingly clear out the trash Blades

yes
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How is this different from Diablo/Borderlands
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I keep hoping the later into the game I am, the more likely the last Blade is to pull. It'd make sense since a number of the rarer Blades can't start/finish their side quests until later in the game anyway.
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Nanis23 posted...

How is this different from Diablo/Borderlands

transcience posted...

the worst part isn't that they exist, it's that slowwww process of unlocking one each time. augh I can picture it perfectly without even playing

That's a big difference.
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StealThisSheen posted...

it's all the worst parts of loot boxes, but in a single player game

No, the worst part of loot boxes is paying for it.
Or even having the option to.

And while it draws similarities to Gachas/Loot Boxes, it's more closely aligned to RANDOM DROPS, which have been a staple of RPGs for a long ass time.
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The gacha sucks ballsack. But you dont really need to grind much. Id say to steer clear of big RPGs like this if you are averse to grinding.

There would have been so many obvious ways to make the rare blade system 100 times better
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Nanis23 posted...

How is this different from Diablo/Borderlands

They have unique quests and scenes attached to them
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Airship_Canon posted...

And while it draws similarities to Gachas/Loot Boxes, it's more closely aligned to RANDOM DROPS, which have been a staple of RPGs for a long ass time.

Nah, since it's random drops just to get the loot boxes in the first place.
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neonreaper posted...

The gacha sucks ballsack. But you dont really need to grind much. Id say to steer clear of big RPGs like this if you are averse to grinding.

There would have been so many obvious ways to make the rare blade system 100 times better

To be fair, I like grinding in normal RPGs. I usually end up overleveled in almost everything. Battles just take so long in this game that it's much less fun. Granted, apparently it gets better later on.
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Also random drops tend to be weighted in most RPGs in a way people could find out. Like "you have a 35% of this drop, a 35% of this drop, a 25% of this drop, and 5% of this."

We still don't know the percentages to XB2.
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Yeah. It's definitely a gacha mechanic and not really random drop-like at all.

That said, I can admit to speaking a bit too strongly about it. It doesn't ruin the game.

It's just an awful, awful thing.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Also random drops tend to be weighted in most RPGs in a way people could find out. Like "you have a 35% of this drop, a 35% of this drop, a 25% of this drop, and 5% of this."

We still don't know the percentages to XB2.

I think a lot of the time that data comes from extracting it out of the game's data. So it isn't possible on any Switch game at the moment.

The other method of figuring out drop rates is killing an enemy multiple times and recording what you get. If the it's a 50% or 25% it doesn't require that many kills to get a rough idea. If it's a 1% or 0.1% drop, you'll need hundreds or thousands of kills. If a person is willing to gather the data, this method can be done in Xenoblade 2 as well for the gacha system.
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The difference between just a flat random drop to a gatcha is pretty minimal, I mean in the practical sense you get blades from monster drops whereas gatcha systems and rates are specifically designed around people being able to buy them.

Either way it's dumb, buuuuut I think I might still be more frustrated by Xenoverse 1's RNG system where literally missions you do use RNG to determine if you get to play the full mission or not, and then there's RNG items to get from that full version of the mission.
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The defining characteristic of gacha is you're gaining characters/gameplay, not just items. It's not like a weapon or potion or whatever, but a whole section of gameplay that you are gambling for.

In other words, an RPG game is often about grinding to unlock items that help you in the game, but a gacha game is about grinding to unlock the actual game.
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StealThisSheen posted...

neonreaper posted...

The gacha sucks ballsack. But you dont really need to grind much. Id say to steer clear of big RPGs like this if you are averse to grinding.

There would have been so many obvious ways to make the rare blade system 100 times better

To be fair, I like grinding in normal RPGs. I usually end up overleveled in almost everything. Battles just take so long in this game that it's much less fun. Granted, apparently it gets better later on.

Not only do battles end faster when you get better at using combos, but you don't even need to win battles to get items. Enemy drops occur in the middle of battles (including Core drops) when using Driver combos allowing you to get tons of items quickly.

TheRock1525 posted...

Also random drops tend to be weighted in most RPGs in a way people could find out. Like "you have a 35% of this drop, a 35% of this drop, a 25% of this drop, and 5% of this."

We still don't know the percentages to XB2.

That's primarily because the game was just released and there are no in depth guides for it. Kind of the problem of having a worldwide release. I think most of us are used with the standard bunch of hidden RPG bullshit already being known to us by the time the game leaves Japan. There's probably a ton of rules governing this that we just don't know about.

Hell it's even possible that certain blades have better or worse chances of dropping from Cores dropped by certain enemies. It wouldn't be different from how in Xenoblade X certain equipment and certain perks would only come from certain enemies, which not only would make it more similar to random drops in other RPGs, it also puts these comments of "I grinded on the same enemies for hours and didn't get what I wanted" into a new light.
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foolm0r0n posted...

The defining characteristic of gacha is you're gaining characters/gameplay, not just items. It's not like a weapon or potion or whatever, but a whole section of gameplay that you are gambling for.

In other words, an RPG game is often about grinding to unlock items that help you in the game, but a gacha game is about grinding to unlock the actual game.

I don't think that's true. Like Fire Emblem Heroes is definitely a gacha game but you just need to get strong characters from the gacha to complete content. The content itself is not tied to getting specific strong characters. Also I remember someone here was whaling for a Buster Sword from one of the FF gacha games.
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Yeah I haven't seen much of the FE gacha but it looks like it balances gacha with actual SRPG gameplay very well. A lot of my friends play it way more because of that, while they get burned out fast on typical gachas.
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FEH is great if you only care about the story but there's basically no content there. You absolutely need strong units if you want to mess with the other stuff.

Fate/GO is probably the best gacha game I've ever seen in that regard. Story is actually substantial, lots of events, and you can clear all content with welfare units. Rates on high rank units are terrible but the only reason to pull is waifu/husbando factor. (On that note, the game does a stunning job of making you actually care about the units since they all have their own stories and such.)
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LeonhartFour posted...

the more I hear about this game the more I feel like I shouldn't play it

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Xiahou Shake posted...

You absolutely need strong units if you want to mess with the other stuff.

You only need to worry about specifics if you care about T20 Arena. You can get into the T18.5 bounce with Askrs.
Note that the T18-19 bounce gives a very minor less resource than 20 (1300 Feathers difference, that's 1 5* Promo every 3, almost 4 months) . By all senses it's a waste of an opportunity cost to play T20. Between TT, T18.5 Arena, and VGs, you'll get all the feathers you can ever really need. Especially if you play wide instead of tall, much like a City should be.

It throws ~250 free orbs a month at you and hands you all the tools you need to do Infernals and Lunatics.
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SEP, which chapter are you on? Im kinda curious which boss youre referring to. Ive had trouble with some bosses but never to the point where I needed certain blades (although its possible I already have the blades thus making the fights manageable).
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Airship_Canon posted...

Xiahou Shake posted...

You absolutely need strong units if you want to mess with the other stuff.

You only need to worry about specifics if you care about T20 Arena. You can get into the T18.5 bounce with Askrs.
Note that the T18-19 bounce gives a very minor less resource than 20 (1300 Feathers difference, that's 1 5* Promo every 3, almost 4 months) . By all senses it's a waste of an opportunity cost to play T20. Between TT, T18.5 Arena, and VGs, you'll get all the feathers you can ever really need. Especially if you play wide instead of tall, much like a City should be.

It throws ~250 free orbs a month at you and hands you all the tools you need to do Infernals and Lunatics.

realtalk is this english
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SaveEstelle posted...

Airship_Canon posted...

Xiahou Shake posted...

You absolutely need strong units if you want to mess with the other stuff.

You only need to worry about specifics if you care about T20 Arena. You can get into the T18.5 bounce with Askrs.
Note that the T18-19 bounce gives a very minor less resource than 20 (1300 Feathers difference, that's 1 5* Promo every 3, almost 4 months) . By all senses it's a waste of an opportunity cost to play T20. Between TT, T18.5 Arena, and VGs, you'll get all the feathers you can ever really need. Especially if you play wide instead of tall, much like a City should be.

It throws ~250 free orbs a month at you and hands you all the tools you need to do Infernals and Lunatics.

realtalk is this english

Clearly you don't play FEH.
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it's true
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Peridiam posted...

SEP, which chapter are you on? Im kinda curious which boss youre referring to. Ive had trouble with some bosses but never to the point where I needed certain blades (although its possible I already have the blades thus making the fights manageable).

I didn't need certain blades. That just seems to always be the go-to suggestion the internet gives

I haven't really found a boss I can't beat yet. I just pretty much brute force my way through and it feels like there's probably better ways.

I had a bit of trouble with Giga Rosa, for instance, and people were like "It's cake with a good evasion tank," or "use x if you can't kill the missiles fast enough," etc. But I just ended up ignoring the missiles and killed it with chains, so. >_>
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