Current Events > Are pro gamers "athletes" in your eyes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

No, not even close. And "e-sports" aren't a real sport.
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Garioshi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Garioshi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

darkjedilink posted...

If physical training isn't required, it isn't athletic.

As such, curling is far more athletic than any esport.

In that case, esports are athletic.

What physical exercises are required? What muscle groups need to be trained? What athletic trainers are certified to train people to be pro gamers?

boot up melee and record yourself waveshineing across final destination if games don't require any physical training

Still not actually answering the question.

you're assuming that all sports only require physical strength and don't require reflexes, execution, or adaptability

Athletic trainers train for all of it.

Again - every esport injury occurs in an office setting. You won't call an office worker an athelete because of it.
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

@darkjedilink: Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

Yes, but that's because it should be a 'competition' visa.
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darkjedilink posted...

Garioshi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Garioshi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

darkjedilink posted...

If physical training isn't required, it isn't athletic.

As such, curling is far more athletic than any esport.

In that case, esports are athletic.

What physical exercises are required? What muscle groups need to be trained? What athletic trainers are certified to train people to be pro gamers?

boot up melee and record yourself waveshineing across final destination if games don't require any physical training

Still not actually answering the question.

you're assuming that all sports only require physical strength and don't require reflexes, execution, or adaptability

Athletic trainers train for all of it.

Again - every esport injury occurs in an office setting. You won't call an office worker an athelete because of it.

I'm not so sure having athletic trainers is a requirement for something to be considered a sport. That's what you're saying, right? I don't really understand your view.

Also, I wouldn't call a worker and athlete unless they compete in a sport outside of a work setting?

What a weird comparison to make.

i would say that pro gamers are athletes, but i would describe them as necessarily athletic.
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darkjedilink posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

@darkjedilink: Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

Yes, but that's because it should be a 'competition' visa.

So you think the visa category should just be expanded rather than granting athlete status to pro gamers?

That sounds like a fucking nightmare logistically.

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

I'm not so sure having athletic trainers is a requirement for something to be considered a sport. That's what you're saying, right? I don't really understand your view.

Not a requirement, but if it's SOOOOO physical, there's a need.

Also, I wouldn't call a worker and athlete unless they compete in a sport outside of a work setting?

What a weird comparison to make.

So, they're atheletes because they don't compete as a job?
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darkjedilink posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...
I'm not so sure having athletic trainers is a requirement for something to be considered a sport. That's what you're saying, right? I don't really understand your view.

Not a requirement, but if it's SOOOOO physical, there's a need.

If it's not a requirement, then drop this point from your argument completely.

It's irrelevant.

darkjedilink posted...

Also, I wouldn't call a worker and athlete unless they compete in a sport outside of a work setting?

What a weird comparison to make.

So, they're atheletes because they don't compete as a job?

What types of office work would you consider comparable to a sport?

SoIidLegacy posted...

Got another 100 worth of ETH during the dip.

Knowing my luck it will probably dip further after a little ramp up.

lol wrong topic
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2WrNCuYJDE
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darkjedilink posted...

Athletic trainers train for all of it.

Again - every esport injury occurs in an office setting. You won't call an office worker an athelete because of it.

Using your own logic: Most weightlifting injuries can occur within a warehouse setting, therefore weightlifting is not an athletic sport.
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Hell no.
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No, they're douchebags.
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No.
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Big fat NO.
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yeah, my friend is on optic's pubg team and he sent me some gear I'll never wear so he is an athlete
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SavenForever posted...

No, they're douchebags.

I sense hostility
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Megaman50100 posted...

I'm of the opinion that pro-gaming is a sport, but its players aren't athletes. A sport is being any competition or game, but an athlete being specifically someone who trains in athleticism, (extreme physical exertion, running, jumping, throwing, balance, etc.)

Most sports are athletic, but not all are. To give a non video game example: Shooting competitions for example I wouldn't consider athletics, but still a sport.

agreed with this
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Pro gaming is not a sport, it's a form of competition, and gamers aren't athletes they're competitors.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Pro gaming is not a sport, it's a form of competition, and gamers aren't athletes they're competitors.

What's a sport?

Garioshi posted...

SavenForever posted...

No, they're douchebags.

I sense hostility

It's true though.
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Pro gaming is not a sport, it's a form of competition, and gamers aren't athletes they're competitors.

What's a sport?

Competition that requires physical prowess more than it does mental.
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Paragon21XX posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Pro gaming is not a sport, it's a form of competition, and gamers aren't athletes they're competitors.

What's a sport?

Competition that requires physical prowess more than it does mental.

So these are sports, then?

Billiards
Bowling
Darts
Snooker

Where is the line drawn exactly? If a pro gamer develops carpal tunnel, is it a sport for them because they're straining but not for their competitors because it's more mental for them?

They're not athletes, but not all sports are athletic.
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mario2000 posted...

They're not athletes, but not all sports are athletic.

What's an athlete?

Paragon21XX posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Pro gaming is not a sport, it's a form of competition, and gamers aren't athletes they're competitors.

What's a sport?

Competition that requires physical prowess more than it does mental.

esports are not very mentally taxing, they're definitely more physical.
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Here's my reverse ask. Why in God's name would you ask me that? And why aren't you more ashamed of yourself?

TheGrindery posted...

Here's my reverse ask. Why in God's name would you ask me that? And why aren't you more ashamed of yourself?

Ashamed about what?

The debate stems from pro gamers running into visa issues when competing abroad.

I think they should be allow to obtain athlete visas for international tournaments.

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

So these are sports, then?

Billiards
Bowling
Darts
Snooker

You really have to ask? Wow.

Garioshi posted...

esports are not very mentally taxing, they're definitely more physical.

Bullshit - they're absolutely mentally taxing.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...
So these are sports, then?

Billiards
Bowling
Darts
Snooker

You really have to ask? Wow.

Some people don't consider them sports and I can't tell what you think. I wonder where you draw the line.

They're in the same group as bowling, darts, etc IMO

I wouldn't colloquially call them athletes(what they do takes a physical skill more than chess/etc but nowhere near the level of "real" sports) but w/r/t visas and other regulatory issues I would call them athletes for the sake of simplicity
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

Some people don't consider them sports and I can't tell what you think. I wonder where you draw the line.

Billiards is a grey area imo.

Bowling is no doubt a sport - anyone who thinks otherwise is likely salty that whatever it is (in this case, esports) they're doing isn't viewed as a sport.

Darts - eh, I don't think it's a sport, but I don't care near enough about darts to argue one way or the other.

Snooker....do people still play snooker?

The whole reason competitive gaming was even considered a sport to begin with was to attempt to legitimize it and have money thrown behind it - they didn't even need to do that shit.

ECompetition resides in its own corner of entertainment and the label isn't what makes it popular, but only folks that are hardcore will ever think of it as a fucking sport - it's not.

As for where I draw the line? I don't. I just call a spade a spade and this one is a spade.

I say this as someone who likes to watch it on occasion, but as an avid gamer my whole life the label of it being a sport is hilarious.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Billiards is a grey area imo.

Bowling is no doubt a sport - anyone who thinks otherwise is likely salty that whatever it is (in this case, esports) they're doing isn't viewed as a sport.

Darts - eh, I don't think it's a sport, but I don't care near enough about darts to argue one way or the other.

Snooker....do people still play snooker?

Okay word, I feel you.

And yeah, snooker is still big. O'Sullivan got dethroned in recent time.

_OujiDoza_ posted...

The whole reason competitive gaming was even considered a sport to begin with was to attempt to legitimize it and have money thrown behind it - they didn't even need to do that s***.

ECompetition resides in its own corner of entertainment and the label isn't what makes it popular, but only folks that are hardcore will ever think of it as a f***ing sport - it's not.

As for where I draw the line? I don't. I just call a spade a spade and this one is a spade.

I say this as someone who likes to watch it on occasion, but as an avid gamer my whole life the label of it being a sport is hilarious.

Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

That's kind of the point of this whole debate.

fenderbender321 posted...

It is of no concern how anything is categorized. Yet people spend countless hours of their lives debating it.

I don't know how many times I need to say it, this is about visas.

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

NO, and furthermore they shouldn't need to.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

So these are sports, then?

Billiards
Bowling
Darts
Snooker

You really have to ask? Wow.

Garioshi posted...

esports are not very mentally taxing, they're definitely more physical.

Bullshit - they're absolutely mentally taxing.

they're as mentally taxing as hockey or soccer
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Garioshi posted...

they're as mentally taxing as hockey or soccer

Nah.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

NO, and furthermore they shouldn't need to.

Why shouldn't they?

If they earn prize money, that's a direct violation of any tourist visa or visa exemption. Tournaments aren't going to be sponsoring work or business visas.

The athlete visa makes the most sense for them.

How would you handle it?

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Garioshi posted...

they're as mentally taxing as hockey or soccer

Nah.

your success in competitive gaming is usually contingent on split-second decisions and execution, not carefully thinking out what your best course of action
even the most mentally taxing competitive game i can think of, catherine, still mostly comes down to recognizing patterns and adapting quickly
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I put them in the same level as competitive eaters.
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

Do you think pro gamers should be allowed to obtain athlete visas?

NO, and furthermore they shouldn't need to.

Why shouldn't they?

If they earn prize money, that's a direct violation of any tourist visa or visa exemption. Tournaments aren't going to be sponsoring work or business visas.

The athlete visa makes the most sense for them.

How would you handle it?

Maybe it does make the most sense for them, but that doesn't validate them as athletes; it's simply a work-around.

Garioshi posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Garioshi posted...

they're as mentally taxing as hockey or soccer

Nah.

your success in competitive gaming is usually contingent on split-second decisions and execution, not carefully thinking out what your best course of action
even the most mentally taxing competitive game i can think of, catherine, still mostly comes down to recognizing patterns and adapting quickly

Correct - but that quick-decision making is mentally intensive; with soccer, hockey, etc. yes your brain tells you to react, but your body (muscle memory) does the real work.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Maybe it does make the most sense for them, but that doesn't validate them as athletes; it's simply a work-around.

It's not a one sided thing here, the government plays an active role in their immigration.

This is a topic of discussion in many countries' governments right now.

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Correct - but that quick-decision making is mentally intensive; with soccer, hockey, etc. yes your brain tells you to react, but your body (muscle memory) does the real work.

have you ever played a competitive game
exact same thing
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I got an athletic scholarship to college and I don't see myself an athlete so why should I consider someone who plays games for a living one?
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Maybe it does make the most sense for them, but that doesn't validate them as athletes; it's simply a work-around.

It's not a one sided thing here, the government plays an active role in their immigration.

This is a topic of discussion in many countries' governments right now.

If that were the case gamers playing in the blizz-con competitions back in the day would need those same visas - I don't think they did and they took home prize money no matter what country they came from.

What about evo? How many competitors throughout the years had sport visas? Up until now, not many of them.

And yeah the gov't plays an active role because they want a piece of the action; they see an opportunity for profit and they got in with the visas - they don't do it because of the thought that these are sporting events.
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Garioshi posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Correct - but that quick-decision making is mentally intensive; with soccer, hockey, etc. yes your brain tells you to react, but your body (muscle memory) does the real work.

have you ever played a competitive game
exact same thing

Man I played Smite for the longest, it did NOTHING to my body good or bad.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Maybe it does make the most sense for them, but that doesn't validate them as athletes; it's simply a work-around.

It's not a one sided thing here, the government plays an active role in their immigration.

This is a topic of discussion in many countries' governments right now.

If that were the case gamers playing in the blizz-con competitions back in the day would need those same visas - I don't think they did and they took home prize money no matter what country they came from.

What about evo? How many competitors throughout the years had sport visas? Up until now, not many of them.

And yeah the gov't plays an active role because they want a piece of the action; they see an opportunity for profit and they got in with the visas - they don't do it because of the thought that these are sporting events.

I think you're starting to see why it's an issue finally.