Board 8 > Opinions, Identity Politics, and How to Kill a Fandom

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr Lasastryke posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Is it really that dismissive to say, "You've only read one story with the character and you liked it. But you dislike the character," expecting some sort of actual response? I pointed out a discrepancy. He had the opportunity to say, "Hey, this is why I don't like Superman." But he can't articulate it. So it becomes dismissive because he has nothing to back up his emotional outburst.

what's the discrepancy? like i said, it's entirely possible to like a story but to dislike a character in it, even the main character. they're two separate things. and at least he read one superman story. sure, it's a laughably sample size and it's like disliking batman because you didn't like him in the 1966 movie or something, but at least he's basing his dislike on something.

also, according to your story he WAS going to respond but "you were finished yourself," so...

Goddammit this is what happens when I move on in a thought and I write unclear sentences. He said something about DC's writers being really bad at that point and the other customer at the counter took this bait, and I continued ringing up his purchase.

I'm just going to give up because I wanted to talk about how it seems like everything is about like-hate without any real reasoning but I can see that apparently I'm just an asshole for not wanting someone to constantly interrupt conversations they are not a part of with very negative generic statements.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I'm just going to give up because I wanted to talk about how it seems like everything is about like-hate without any real reasoning but I can see that apparently I'm just an asshole for not wanting someone to constantly interrupt conversations they are not a part of with very negative generic statements.

again, this isn't even close to what i'm saying. you should stop with these straw mans.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I'm just going to give up because I wanted to talk about how it seems like everything is about like-hate without any real reasoning but I can see that apparently I'm just an asshole for not wanting someone to constantly interrupt conversations they are not a part of with very negative generic statements.

again, this isn't even close to what i'm saying. you should stop with these straw mans.

Then I have no idea what you're saying. I'm reading this as criticism for my handling of the situation and not really about my posts' point. Which it is, because that's what you said.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Then I have no idea what you're saying.

i was saying that i don't see where there's a discrepancy in what the customer said.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Then I have no idea what you're saying.

i was saying that i don't see where there's a discrepancy in what the customer said.

scarletspeed7 posted...

I'm reading this as criticism for my handling of the situation and not really about my posts' point. Which it is, because that's what you said.

The discrepancy is that he didn't say, "I dislike Superman in spite of this story." He doesn't say that. I made my statement. He can respond to it. He could say that. He didn't. Because he just wants to state opinions. Which is the point of my entire shpiel.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Which it is, because that's what you said.

i didn't say you were an asshole for not wanting people to interrupt conversations.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Which it is, because that's what you said.

i didn't say you were an asshole for not wanting people to interrupt conversations.

Sorry, I edited in something and you posted before I posted it.

The discrepancy is that he didn't say, "I dislike Superman in spite of this story." He doesn't say that. I made my statement. He can respond to it. He could say that. He didn't. Because he just wants to state opinions. Which is the point of my entire shpiel.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

The discrepancy is that he didn't say, "I dislike Superman in spite of this story." He doesn't say that. I made my statement. He can respond to it. He could say that. He didn't. Because he just wants to state opinions. Which is the point of my entire shpiel.

ok, that's fair.

in the original story it seemed like he was going to respond but you didn't give him the chance to, but if he did get the opportunity to say "i dislike superman in spite of the story" but he didn't he was probably just being stupid, yeah.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

The discrepancy is that he didn't say, "I dislike Superman in spite of this story." He doesn't say that. I made my statement. He can respond to it. He could say that. He didn't. Because he just wants to state opinions. Which is the point of my entire shpiel.

ok, that's fair.

in the original story it seemed like he was going to respond but you didn't give him the chance to, but if he did get the opportunity to say "i dislike superman in spite of the story" but he didn't he was probably just being stupid, yeah.

Yeah that's my fault for sort of just moving on and skipping the next bit of dialogue.
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trdl23 posted...

I've seen it in Magic, too. People are at each other's throats and apoplectic more than I've ever seen before. It doesn't help that Wizards has screwed up a lot lately, but I can't help but feel that this is a larger cultural problem that tearing communities apart. People aren't just miserable; it's like they want to miserable. Like they're scared of not being miserable. I don't get it.

WotC is messing up so badly lately that its having a ripple effect and hurting other games and gaming in general - which seems to just be the circle of life for those guys. It's really quite the mess. Like, I don't even buy WotC products these days aside from some pieces from D&D mini set (though their sets come with one fewer piece than the Paizo alternative and are of comparable quality, so I only rarely buy those too)

But I am seeing it a lot from the 'older' guard sorts that you see most often at stores - they just want to complain because theyre unhappy about other things, as an organizer and ON TOP OF THAT, they like to gatekeep and push out new player. I imagine, for store owners, just keeping everyone happy and welcoming everyone in spite of those sorts is a constant challenge.

But I do think it's just our politics spilling over into everything else. Politicians have made EVERYTHING about identity and even advertisers have bought into this with like "Are you a MARVEL or a DC" or " Samsung or iPhone" or "Chevy vs Ford" like this stuff just IS our culture right now and since we talk about politics non-stop these days that confrontational tribalism that is meant to motivate certain behaviors hasn't been allowed to rest and surprisingly human being dont actually thrive on literally constant conflict and continuously fracturing tribalism makes us sort of miserable.
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Jeez Scarlet, you're such an asshole. Why didn't you just agree with the rude customer and convince the new customer to put down the $100 worth of superman comics he was getting?
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Jeez Scarlet, you're such an asshole. Why didn't you just agree with the rude customer and convince the new customer to put down the $100 worth of superman comics he was getting?

again, nobody was saying scarlet is an asshole. not sure why some mild disagreement with scarlet elicits such aggressive responses.
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Cuz y'all sound like dicks with your mom's mild disagreements.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Cuz y'all sound like dicks with your mom's mild disagreements.

Autocorrect is a wild thing.
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Take a chill pill lasa you're gonna have an ulcer one of these days
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*calls people dicks for no reason at all, tells someone else to take a chill pill*

lol
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I didn't say you were dicks, just said you sounded like 'em.

Guy vents about issues, everyone calls him out for not bending over for an someone who was clearly being an asshole. Yes, you guys sound like dicks. You get called out on it, you hide behind your .gif's.

Lasa, I've never really had a problem with you and I'm probably just upset and drinking and using this space to vent in your direction, so please don't take this personally but I'm pissed and looking for pots to stir.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

everyone calls him out for not bending over for an someone who was clearly being an asshole.

again, i never did this.
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Lasa, for the love of God, please just stop posting in this topic for a bit.
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why?
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Because you're behaving uncomfortably Corrik-esque.
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well that's insulting.
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yeah, it's kinda interesting.

decades upon decades of tribal loyalty to and worship of sports teams slowly becomes how we behave in regards to everything else
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Like, fine, I could have said, "Poor baby, I'm so sorry! Please explain your opinion you have offered to the detriment of the conversation in which you intruded." Would that have appeased you?

No I think you missed the point of what I was saying entirely
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More and more people are waking up to the problem.

Look, there are no major crazy things on the horizon to reshape and excite the world. Some stuff here and there, but nothing that we saw from post WW2 to 2007.

You want to help yourself though?
1) Stop using the internet and especially (modern era) social media as much.
2) If you are tired of "thing x" (magic the gathering was mentioned itt), maybe its time to move on?
3) Get some physical exercise, 30 mins to an hour a day is fine
4) Try new local businesses/restaurants/etc and meet new people working there

But anyone who doesnt understand how the CRO2K7 ushered in this shit is crazy. But I'm seeing so much more awareness of this since 2015/2016/last year that I think people are realizing it.

The internet has been causing more unhappiness and inability to find personal excitement than happiness for a while now......a long long while.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

And I'm sorry you experienced that man. I would suggest, very simply, to not surround yourself with negative people. You really are the sum of the 5 people you spend the most time with. So why be around assholes?

It's sound advice, but even with a great friend network, you still have to function at a job or school, etc. That's the hard part.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

You're hanging around too many leftists then. Real Americans are doing fabulous :)

Also, for the record, in my English class the people that instigate the conversations that go nowhere are equal parts liberal and conservative. They all are ruining my education.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Discussions don't focus on what the writer was exploring in their world, it's constantly about holding a modern judgmental lens up to the writer's era and determining just how courageous or politically incorrect they are by current standards.

I mean, isn't that just "death of the author"? It's a style of literary analysis popularized in the 20th century. (Doesn't necessarily make it better than judging works within their historical context, but it's not new as a technique).
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metroid composite posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Discussions don't focus on what the writer was exploring in their world, it's constantly about holding a modern judgmental lens up to the writer's era and determining just how courageous or politically incorrect they are by current standards.

I mean, isn't that just "death of the author"? It's a style of literary analysis popularized in the 20th century. (Doesn't necessarily make it better than judging works within their historical context, but it's not new as a technique).

Not really. Barthes posed in his creation of the concept of death of the author that cultural framework did not matter either. The text is supposed to be interpreted solely by the words at play in the text. He's interested in the movement and play of the signifier; it's opposite of being representative of the culture from which it might be a product. People tend to misunderstand this and assume Barthes is advocating for a text to be read through the lens of culture judging another culture, but he's anti-representational.
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You should have totally ignored the angry comic dude. There's absolutely no reason to entertain someone butting into your conversation (and your work) like that. Pretend they don't exist at all. That sense of entitlement, that your opinion MUST be heard and MUST be valuable because enjoy some piece of media, is the worst thing.
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Also I never did many humanities courses but this group discussion concept that I've heard about from friends seems so bad. What can you gain from your dumbass classmate's hot take and the other dumbass classmate's counter rant? It makes no sense. And it's definitely not the socratic method. Waste of time/money.

But I hear upperclass courses are done much better. Intro courses are basically just for fun. Engineering classes were the same way in terms of quality.
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Also Lopen is dumb as FUCK this is not new
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can confirm that humanities courses with heated debates among dumbass classmates suck.
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I had a really good literature course that focused on discussion with my classmates, but it had a brutal workload for an underclassman (12 books in 15 weeks; the entire Odyssey done in a week and a half), so the students were self-selecting. It was also a few years before the Trump era.
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This happened to me today. My Intro to Popular Culture class had to listen to ...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin by The Roots.

The lyric being interpreted was from the song "Never":
"I was born faceless in an oasis
Folks disappear here and leave no traces"

And the first thing some girl said about it was:
"I think this line is, like... he's talking about how he as a black man was born into a world of white people. And the oasis is, like, he's got a good family and stuff but the society makes them fail and that's how they disappear."

The song doesn't mention black people once, and the album as a whole only has one real mention of a black person. The album has a much deeper meaning beyond race, and somehow that was the first thing that got brought up.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Either glorify the identity of a man who was so much more, who offered so much more in this essay, or rebuke the glorification as an act of independence and free thinking.

*nods emphatically*
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Spoiler alert: people tend to interpret things through the lens of their own lives.

That lyric to me instantly evokes the hopelessness of living in the Rust Belt because thats my context.
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Course the funny thing is most people in college classes that isn't actually the lens of their lives but you know
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It reads like totally generic lyrics with no meaning made to be vague enough to appeal to anyone
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It feels like lyrics that I would need more context from the song to interpret

I remember that one of my first literature classes had us read and listen to some classic Mos Def on the first day of class.
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trdl23 posted...

I had a really good literature course that focused on discussion with my classmates, but it had a brutal workload for an underclassman (12 books in 15 weeks; the entire Odyssey done in a week and a half), so the students were self-selecting. It was also a few years before the Trump era.

I think when a class presents itself as a heavy workload, you tend to have fewer participants who aren't there to squeeze all of the possible knowledge out of the teacher in order to at least make their own lives easier in the grading process.
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foolm0r0n posted...

It reads like totally generic lyrics with no meaning made to be vague enough to appeal to anyone

incorrect, the album as a whole has a pretty strong meaning, and that song ties into the concept. however:

Paratroopa1 posted...

It feels like lyrics that I would need more context from the song to interpret

accurate, and the assumption was that we as students had listened to the album at least twice before going to class that day. i can say as someone who listened to the album twice that those words aren't meant to be taken racially

there are a few spots in the album where i could understand taking it racially, and one phrase in particular that is probably racially charged, but the lyrics that were being discussed were not one of those spots.
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Coming in to support scarlet's dismantling of the one dipshit customer because customers in general feel too entitled to be able to act like dipshits and the more often that behavior is checked, and checked hard the better society will be.
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