Board 8 > World Cup Discussion Topic 5

(+) Yeah! (+)

The_Ctes posted...

And yeah, Lukaku wasn't really on point today. Outside of the first 20 minutes, we didn't really get to see Belgium play like their A-game, a big shame.

They were stifled by France in the end

France could be so much more, but they are in the end ruthlessly efficient. Won't and shouldn't go down as one of the great WC-winning sides, and they should with their pace and skill, but credit to Deschamps, he's ground his way to it. Looks like he's learned his lesson.
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Once France went ahead Mbappe was fantastic. The way he used the space and terrified Belgium is probably what stopped Belgium from really ever applying sustained pressure as well
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Not saying Belgium was clean at all. But if they got away with anything, they surely had it coming back by not getting very deserved free kicks and getting undeserved yellow cards.

France easily had it easier with the referee.
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Shocking ref, boring French, hating my life. Dembele with an absolutely outstandingly bad performance. Would've been better off with anyone else there. Pavard weaker than Lucas Hernndez, yet every ball going across the right because ??? Need a goal in the final minutes? Take off Fellaini because ???

Absolutely rooting for the Croats now. The English will be insufferable if they win it and France winning would just usher in another era of boring counter-attacking defensive football.

Most of all, as sad as I am to say it, disappointed in the team. This was not the day for De Bruyne, Dembele and Chadli to have an off-day. Considering Hazard gave several interviews proclaiming he wanted to win the WC, I'm also somewhat disappointed at his overall output this WC.

At least Arsenal look to be on the up, so I have some positivity going forward.
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Uh did you not watch how dirty Dembele was for Belgium before the sub. Dude got away with the most stuff.

Lukaku tried so damn hard, but Varane and Umtiti were just insane.
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I'll just state again that I don't like stoppage time and would prefer the clock to stop.

Just becasue it's terrible to watch a team like France right now outright abuse the current system. They have the right to waste as much time as possible and they did so elegantly. Also not elegantly and outright delayed the game at points, but hey they knew the ref wouldn't add add additional time on top of additional time. It should not take 20+ seconds to throw in a ball. And when someone is rolling around becasue they were slightly bumped in extra time, that should not count towards wasting the play clock.
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jcgamer107 posted...

The most inexplicable thing to me was Hazard getting taken down (maybe that's the foul you're referring to) outside the box right in front of the ref, who not only didn't call a foul, but wagged his finger like he knew it was a dive. Like....what.

Yeah, that was the worst by far.

Then later Mbappe actually gives and Belgium gets a level.

At least Belgium is probably a really fun team to have in the third place match. I just wish the finalists were other teams than it will be.
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Peridiam posted...

i found this game pretty boring compared to what we've seen in this knockout, one of the most boring really

First half was boring af.
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

I'll just state again that I don't like stoppage time and would prefer the clock to stop.

Just becasue it's terrible to watch a team like France right now outright abuse the current system. They have the right to waste as much time as possible and they did so elegantly. Also not elegantly and outright delayed the game at points, but hey they knew the ref wouldn't add add additional time on top of additional time. It should not take 20+ seconds to throw in a ball. And when someone is rolling around becasue they were slightly bumped in extra time, that should not count towards wasting the play clock.

That's why I thought the ref should have added a couple more minutes. Don't let them get away with that stuff.
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Work world cup pool I picked France over Croatia in the final. The dream is still alive.
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Legend:
QTF = Quarter Final
SMF = Semi Final
TPP = Third Place Playoff
FIN = Final

[A1] = [Uruguay 4W-0D-0L] - 2
[B2] = [Portugal 1W-2D-1L] - 1

QTF>[A1] = [Uruguay 4W-0D-1L] - 0
QTF>[C1] = [France 4W-1D-0L] - 2

[C1] = [France 3W-1D-0L] - 4
[D2] = [Argentina 1W-1D-2L] - 3

SMF>>>>>[C1] = [France 5W-1D-0L] - 1
SMF>>>>>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-1L] - 0

[E1] = [Brazil 3W-1D-0L] - 2
[F2] = [Mexico 2W-0D-2L] - 0

QTF>[E1] = [Brazil 3W-1D-1L] - 1
QTF>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-0L] - 2

[G1] = [Belgium 4W-0D-0L] - 3
[H2] = [Japan 1W-1D-2L] - 2

FIN>>>>>>>>>[C1] = [France 5W-1D-0L]
FIN>>>>>>>>>[??] = [---]

TPP>>>>>>>>>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-1L]
TPP>>>>>>>>>[??] = [---]

[B1] = [Spain 1W-3D-0L] - 1(3)
[A2] = [Russia 2W-1D-1L] - 1(4)

QTF>[A2] = [Russia 2W-2D-1L] - 2(3)
QTF>[D1] = [Croatia 3W-2D-0L] - 2(4)

[D1] = [Croatia 3W-1D-0L] - 1(3)
[C2] = [Denmark 1W-3D-0L] - 1(2)

SMF>>>>>[D1] = [Croatia 3W-2D-0L]
SMF>>>>>[G2] = [England 3W-1D-1L]

[F1] = [Sweden 3W-0D-1L] - 1
[E2] = [Switzerland 1W-2D-1L] - 0

QTF>[F1] = [Sweden 3W-0D-2L] - 0
QTF>[G2] = [England 3W-1D-1L] - 2

[H1] = [Colombia 2W-1D-1L] - 1(3)
[G2] = [England 2W-1D-1L] - 1(4)
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For all the time wasting.

France still had better goalscoring opportunities during that period.
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Hardcore_Adult posted...

Peridiam posted...

i found this game pretty boring compared to what we've seen in this knockout, one of the most boring really

First half was boring af.

First half was great, what are you smoking? Both an interesting tactical battle and hugely competitive. The way France looked to overcome their disadvantage in midfield with long balls to Mbappe and Griezmann while Belgium looked more and more threatening, especially in the first 20.
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The ref could have added another half hour, France would have probably just added more to the lead and done more simulation. They are the best team in the tournament It doesnt mean they arent distasteful to watch
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voltch posted...

Uh did you not watch how dirty Dembele was for Belgium before the sub. Dude got away with the most stuff.

Lukaku tried so damn hard, but Varane and Umtiti were just insane.

I didn't say the ref was biased, I said he was shocking ;)

Varane and Umtiti were very good, but Lukaku also never really got a proper ball played to him. We had some good crosses with De Bruyne in the first 20 minutes, and then the first 10 minutes when Mertens came on. And that was it. And all on the right of course, because god forbid Our Lord and Savior Eden Hazard would ever play on the right and cross it in.
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A team this young being so disciplined, tactically aware and pragmatic is rare on the international stage.

Saw some stuff while in France, Lloris has come off like a great captain in interviews and such over there.
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Yeah, the first half had some excitement. Both keepers made a great save.
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jcgamer107 posted...

Yeah, the first half had some excitement. Both keepers made a great save.

That too

And the outstanding defending from Varane and Umtiti too to stop two good Belgium attacks.
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Anyway, now the 24 hours of terror begin
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The Varane tackle on I believe Hazard, followed by the excellent shot stop from Lloris was one of the better examples of Belgium working themselves into good chances, but being stopped by a very good defense.

Get past Matuidi and Kante, you gotta get through Varane and Umtiti, put yourself in a position to shoot, there's still a Lloris to get past.

Now I think England will win tomorrow and Kane can certainly score against France, but they'll try hard to not even let him touch the ball.

First World Cup final since 2006, that one France got there beating some very good teams, this year they beat some incredibly talented guys to get to the final as well. I'm just hoping they do one better. Heck, 98' saw France come up against some very strong teams once they hit the knockout stages.
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I don't think we can beat France if we play like we have been and they defend like that.

Kane is dropping deep and setting up Sterling, Lingard for shots and they aren't clever enough in their movement to evade Varane/Umtiti and they aren't good enough finishers even if they do. They'll literally have one chance each in the whole game, if that, and I don't back Lingard/Sterling to bury their one chance.

Kane will have to play further up the pitch (which would likely give Kante or Pogba slightly more freedom) and be more selfish I imagine.

Edit: not that we're going to play France.
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Lingard and Sterling will have to do what DeBruyne/Hazard couldn't.

But they have a different style of game, like DeBruyne's passes were still getting into very dangerous areas, but Lukaku was often trying to jostle for position and got in late. If Kane gets in the box he'll be a major threat.

I guess they have the pace to burn Pavard, maybe not Hernandez. The issue for England is tracking back against Mbappe and Griezmann. I noticed this game that a lot of the times Hazard got past Pavard, Kante poked the ball away. Hazard was just so good, he at times got past both anyway.

However, on set pieces, England are very dangerous, and Umtiti can be exposed on those. England will have corners and free kicks.
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Finally, I think our journey in the WC should instill a change in the way tournaments work. How sad is it that we had to face Japan, Brazil, and France to get to the final, because we did our job and beat England? Couldn't they change it in a way where the team that wins the group gets to decide the side of the bracket they end up on?
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You could have lost that game.

And it's the fault of Germany and Spain, nothing else. They could have made it hard or overwhelming for us but Germany were shit and Spain sacked their manager.

In another universe Brazil lose to Serbia and go out and Denmark score in the last minute against France to put them 2nd and suddenly the top half of the draw is easy.

Your idea also severely disadvantages teams in group A/B etc, or if you wait until the end of the groups to decide it gives teams no time to prepare between games. Only reason we both knew it was good to finish 2nd is because we were the last group to finish. It was a totally unique, freakish situation. Not enough to justify a rule change.
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Also how do you decide the order of choosing? Surely the last to choose then has an advantage?
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I guess. It's just frustrating to me that England might reach the final because you guys (or your reserves) weren't as good as us and 'only' had to play Colombia, Sweden, and Croatia.
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I get why that would be annoying but you could have thrown the game. If anything, blame Januzaj
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Its a nonsensical format he hasn't really thought through.

England could easily have been facing Germany and Spain instead, but both countries had some extenuating circumstances. Upsets happen, they can create these kinds of scenarios when they do occur.
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This has probably been the most interesting World Cup since 2002.
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I'd feel more sympathy if he hadn't been anti-England at every given opportunity for the entire tournament for apparently no reason whatsoever.

The reason you can't do it that way is for every team it helps like it would have helped Belgium here, it punishes teams who did their jobs too. How would it be fair on a 'lesser' team to take care of business and top a group over a higher ranked team to then be punished by a bigger team opting to swap into their side of the bracket whilst the team coming second gets to go on the now easier side?

I'm also not sure how you would juggle the logistics either. It's set up that way to avoid same group teams meeting each other. If the 1 seed swaps placement they now match against a group winner instead of a second place. So that 1 seed also has to swap now to avoid them being punished for winning their group but what if they don't want to swap and prefer that side of the bracket?

The fairer way would be to do it like a CL draw and do a fresh draw for the next round but then you run into logistics issues regarding number of rest days between matches. Like maybe you could split the draw somehow to be fairer into 4 1st who played Day 1/2, 4 1st who played Day 3/4 and then do the same for the 2nd place teams. And then since there is rest days after that you would be less restricted for the next round and anybody could meet anybody. You'd have to draw in advance for future rounds due to travelling though.

tbh there should be a reward for finishing 1st in your group. And usually there is. Belgium/England was just a really freakish situation that Belgium COULD have worked to their advantage but chose not to. They had way more yellow cards than us and a 0-0 sent us through top, so Januzaj scoring is what has cost them. Nothing else.

Again, such a completely freakish situation shouldn't really be treated as a norm. It's really a non-existent problem brought about by Germany's awfulness and Spain's freak sacking of Lopetegui.

Germany 2002 also had a freakishly easy run to the final, but that was because other good teams lost. Mexico won their group over Italy, then lost to the US, so it "should" have been Germany/Italy, then Korea beat Spain - their would-be SF opponents.

These freakish runs happen. Games are played over 90 minutes, start at 0-0 and there's pretty narrow margins between the players. Upsets are inevitable and lead to easy runs. Doesn't mean we need to change the WC over it. Spurs have gotten to the FA Cup semi-final two years running playing lower division teams almost every round. Over two years. And that's with random draws. It's inescapable no matter the method.
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And yes, massive logistical nightmare, obviously
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Even if you get the bottom half of the bracket, you probably play France in the final anyways. Not to mention Colombia was a tougher Round of 16 opponent than Japan, and nearly knocked England out. Beyond that it was like others said - a freak occurance with traditional powers underperforming. It's like the NCAA basketball tournament in the US, or any tournament that doesn't reseed teams between rounds - you play who's in front of you. Sometimes there's upsets that can clear a path for you, sometimes not.

Also I commend Belgium on playing to win against England. Much better mentality. They've had a great attitude this whole tournament and Top 4 is something to be proud of, and they can still land their best finish of all-time if they win Saturday.
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In addition to Germany and Spain, you also have Argentina's horrible coaching.
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jcgamer107 posted...

Also I commend Belgium on playing to win against England. Much better mentality.

I mean, they dropped their entire team too. I don't think we particularly threw the game, but we certainly didn't go our hardest both in terms of coaching, tactics, and play. But Belgium didn't either and ultimately the difference was one great moment from Januzaj. We also made and missed narrowly a great one-on-one chance. I think our players played to win, just not at their absolute hardest, and unless you think Rashford missed that chance on purpose, you agree.

Let's not overstate what Belgium did there
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All the Superpowers bar France, shat the bed this year.
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Yeah I'm not implying England threw the game. I get that both teams rested their starters since they were both already through, I'm just saying good on Belgium for actually taking a scoring chance regradless of what the bracket looked like.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44785165

This sums it up
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Where's it coming guys?
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KingHova045 posted...

Where's it coming guys?

Wherever you want it to.
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jcgamer107 posted...

Yeah I'm not implying England threw the game. I get that both teams rested their starters since they were both already through, I'm just saying good on Belgium for actually taking a scoring chance regradless of what the bracket looked like.

Nobody WOULD *blame* you if you thought that way. It just felt like England rolled over.
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9 hours from now it'll be over one way or another.

It'll almost be a relief to lose, it'll mean the horrible limbo I'm in won't go on any longer
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I'm kind of tense and Antsy and it's not even Midday yet.

It's a good thing I don't keep a gun in the house!
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Hardcore_Adult posted...

Nobody WOULD *blame* you

you need to make your mind up on how you emphasize text
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Get off my case, Steiner!

Man, that felt good!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQFTeF74dyY" data-time="

Unimaginable, unconstrained terror
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We need this to happen today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEYMWaqggUE" data-time="
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spikethedevil posted...

KingHova045 posted...

Where's it coming guys?

Wherever you want it to.

Boo ... One more time: Where's it comin?
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*is all shirted up and will make a right nuisance out of self but not do wankerish things like standing on ambulances*
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Federer is already making my blood pressure rise. What a sports day.
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