Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 249: Phase 1 of a scheduled topic series

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HeroDelTiempo17 11/22/19 6:39:16 PM #351:	I think occasionally about the scenario that seems really realistic to me, in which Pete or Biden are elected and after doing the "you'll get to keep your current plan!" appeal, they actually push a strong public option through, the healthcare market changes dramatically, employers and insurances shuffle plans around, and now everyone is pissed because they LIED about keeping your plan! Why would you set yourself up to get owned like that? It makes no sense. And the answer is - if they instead implement a bad public option, they get to keep both promises because the healthcare system won't really change. And that's the entire concern with the moderate approach! --- DPOblivion was far more determined than me. <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:930548260] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>I think occasionally about the scenario that seems really realistic to me, in which Pete or Biden are elected and after doing the "you'll get to keep your current plan!" appeal, they actually push a strong public option through, the healthcare market changes dramatically, employers and insurances shuffle plans around, and now everyone is pissed because they LIED about keeping your plan! Why would you set yourself up to get owned like that? It makes no sense. And the answer is - if they instead implement a bad public option, they get to keep both promises because the healthcare system won't really change. And that's the entire concern with the moderate approach! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 11/22/19 6:40:13 PM #352:	LordoftheMorons posted... It's incorrect to say that you're throwing them off of insurance, but it's correct to state that you're telling them to give up insurance that they're familiar with in order for it to be replaced with something that you claim will be better. The question is then whether they trust you to deliver on that promise (which is a function not only of your intentions, but also of the competence of your implementation, and how robust the public plan is to sabotage). In other words, you're asking people to take a big risk with something very important, and it's not a good idea to handwave that away as manufactured. What I'm thinking of here is sabotage when the GOP controls Congress. In particular, I think it's very likely that they would refuse to allow M4A to fund abortion. I know! My grievance with the line that Buttigieg and the others launching this attack is that they're doing it in soundbite form which excises all that nuance! It's the line that you would see the GOP use to attack it to kill it and preserve the grotesque status quo. It is therefore extremely unhelpful to have it also used by those who are, at least nominally, in support of universal coverage. I understand that its use is because it's effective as an attack vector by leveraging fear and uncertainty and because the media these days doesn't have the time or appetite for the required nuance but that doesn't absolve those launching the attack IMO. Really, I think what you need from the single-payer side is to continue to educate the public on what it is and means - and Warren and Sanders have been doing that, albeit often under similar media constraints where the attention span isn't long enough sometimes to get deep into it - and stating "you don't trust the American people!" and "You're going to kick 140 million people who like their insurance off of it!" is actively harmful to that. Now, I'm not saying it's the role of Buttigieg, Biden, etc. to defend single-payer when it is not a policy they support. However, I do think they should know enough to know what they're doing here and - again, I am speaking from a position sympathetic to single-payer so I'm not without bias on this - and it reeks of looking to score a personal political advantage at the cost of disingenuously characterizing the position of their rivals. They don't have to support or defend it, that would be nuts, but I don't think it's wrong to at least hold them to arguing against it in a fair way. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930548304] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted...</cite> <quote>It's incorrect to say that you're throwing them off of insurance, but it's correct to state that you're telling them to give up insurance that they're familiar with in order for it to be replaced with something that you claim will be better. The question is then whether they trust you to deliver on that promise (which is a function not only of your intentions, but also of the competence of your implementation, and how robust the public plan is to sabotage). In other words, you're asking people to take a big risk with something very important, and it's not a good idea to handwave that away as manufactured. What I'm thinking of here is sabotage when the GOP controls Congress. In particular, I think it's very likely that they would refuse to allow M4A to fund abortion.</quote> I know! My grievance with the line that Buttigieg and the others launching this attack is that they're doing it in soundbite form which excises all that nuance! It's the line that you would see the GOP use to attack it to kill it and preserve the grotesque status quo. It is therefore extremely unhelpful to have it also used by those who are, at least nominally, in support of universal coverage. I understand that its use is because it's effective as an attack vector by leveraging fear and uncertainty and because the media these days doesn't have the time or appetite for the required nuance but that doesn't absolve those launching the attack IMO. Really, I think what you need from the single-payer side is to continue to educate the public on what it is and means - and Warren and Sanders have been doing that, albeit often under similar media constraints where the attention span isn't long enough sometimes to get deep into it - and stating "you don't trust the American people!" and "You're going to kick 140 million people who like their insurance off of it!" is actively harmful to that. Now, I'm not saying it's the role of Buttigieg, Biden, etc. to defend single-payer when it is not a policy they support. However, I do think they should know enough to know what they're doing here and - again, I am speaking from a position sympathetic to single-payer so I'm not without bias on this - and it reeks of looking to score a personal political advantage at the cost of disingenuously characterizing the position of their rivals. They don't have to support or defend it, that would be nuts, but I don't think it's wrong to at least hold them to arguing against it in a fair way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 11/22/19 6:53:14 PM #353:	Also, as a sidebar here - even upfront assuming 2020 results in a Democratic Senate with 50-51 seats, I severely doubt the votes for single-payer exist. It almost certainly could not pass until 2022 at the earliest in the ultimate best case optimist scenario where you see gains in the midterm against historical patterns (I mean it is a friendly map but still!) Public option there very well could be. It passed a less-democratic House under Pelosi during the ACA debate and I think the votes could be whipped in the Senate. I also assume the GOP will not help and you'll need to force it with reconciliation or the removal of the filibuster (which itself would requiring flipping a few Democratic Senators who say now they would not support such action. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but this could be an added challenge which is so dumb) so GOP sabotage shouldn't be a concern - except perhaps ironically under Biden if you take his reach-across-the-aisle talk as legit and he makes the exact same error Obama did with the ACA and water it down for nothing. It should be worked on with the understanding you're not getting Republican support and so ignore their poison pills on it. Obviously if the Republicans hold the Senate in 2020 then nothing happens. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930548922] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Also, as a sidebar here - even upfront assuming 2020 results in a Democratic Senate with 50-51 seats, I severely doubt the votes for single-payer exist. It almost certainly could not pass until 2022 at the earliest in the ultimate best case optimist scenario where you see gains in the midterm against historical patterns (I mean it is a friendly map but still!) Public option there very well could be. It passed a less-democratic House under Pelosi during the ACA debate and I think the votes could be whipped in the Senate. I also assume the GOP will not help and you'll need to force it with reconciliation or the removal of the filibuster (which itself would requiring flipping a few Democratic Senators who say now they would not support such action. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but this could be an added challenge which is so dumb) so GOP sabotage shouldn't be a concern - except perhaps ironically under Biden if you take his reach-across-the-aisle talk as legit and he makes the exact same error Obama did with the ACA and water it down for nothing. It should be worked on with the understanding you're not getting Republican support and so ignore their poison pills on it. Obviously if the Republicans hold the Senate in 2020 then nothing happens.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CoolCly 11/22/19 7:01:06 PM #354:	Nelson_Mandela posted... Serious question for Dems: do you derive pleasure from debates over M4A/healthcare reform? There is zero chance of either passing in the foreseeable future (no matter who wins the election), so it really is just a theoretical debate for its own sake. I guess if it's satisfying to talk about it then I'm happy for you? assuming you are correct that there is currently zero chance of it passing in the foreseeable future - what's more likely to increase the chances in the future, talking about it or not talking about it? --- The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG <cite>CoolCly posted [p:930549251] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Nelson_Mandela posted...</cite> <quote>Serious question for Dems: do you derive pleasure from debates over M4A/healthcare reform? There is zero chance of either passing in the foreseeable future (no matter who wins the election), so it really is just a theoretical debate for its own sake. I guess if it's satisfying to talk about it then I'm happy for you?</quote> assuming you are correct that there is currently zero chance of it passing in the foreseeable future - what's more likely to increase the chances in the future, talking about it or not talking about it?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red13n 11/22/19 7:07:01 PM #355:	I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option. --- "First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed. <cite>red13n posted [p:930549527] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 11/22/19 7:13:33 PM #356:	red13n posted... I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option. This is actually Warren's plan. Upon election halt the Trump administration's sabotage, reduce the Medicare age to 50, and add a public option available to all. Then by 2022 get M4A. I think her timeline is overly optimistic there, but this is her plan. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930549805] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>red13n posted...</cite> <quote>I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option.</quote> This is actually Warren's plan. Upon election halt the Trump administration's sabotage, reduce the Medicare age to 50, and add a public option available to all. Then by 2022 get M4A. I think her timeline is overly optimistic there, but this is her plan.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 11/22/19 7:13:50 PM #357:	red13n posted... I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option. 1) This is Buttigieg's actual stance, though he doesn't want to do it himself and attacks trying to do so outright because he is an opportunist. 2) Warren actually updated her plan last week to do exactly this. Everyone hates it! Moderates are mad she didn't pivot and dump M4A, the more left group are mad because passing public option first and M4A second across multiple bills/plans will most likely make M4A much harder to pass conpared to Bernie's, which bundles the entire transition to make sure commitment is there. That said, her public option is still better than Buttigieg's and Biden's. --- DPOblivion was far more determined than me. <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:930549819] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>red13n posted... </cite> <quote>I am still surprised no one has tried to really push the middle ground option of "yes lets get a public option now and then work on m4a after". Because it really is the realistic option.</quote> 1) This is Buttigieg's actual stance, though he doesn't want to do it himself and attacks trying to do so outright because he is an opportunist. 2) Warren actually updated her plan last week to do exactly this. Everyone hates it! Moderates are mad she didn't pivot and dump M4A, the more left group are mad because passing public option first and M4A second across multiple bills/plans will most likely make M4A much harder to pass conpared to Bernie's, which bundles the entire transition to make sure commitment is there. That said, her public option is still better than Buttigieg's and Biden's. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 11/22/19 7:20:57 PM #358:	HeroDelTiempo17 posted... 1) This is Buttigieg's actual stance, though he doesn't want to do it himself and attacks trying to do so outright because he is an opportunist. I may be splitting hairs but I wouldn't quite characterize Buttigieg's stance as that. He's arguing for passing a public option and saying that it will be superior to all other private plans so everyone will switch to it and as a result you'll effectively have a single-payer system since everyone's on that plan. I think what Warren's plan is, and what red is talking about, requires a more active component after the public option implementation phase for it to count here. You note that in that he "doesn't want to do it himself" but I think that's the key distinction here. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930550133] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>HeroDelTiempo17 posted...</cite> <quote> 1) This is Buttigieg's actual stance, though he doesn't want to do it himself and attacks trying to do so outright because he is an opportunist.</quote> I may be splitting hairs but I wouldn't quite characterize Buttigieg's stance as that. He's arguing for passing a public option and saying that it will be superior to all other private plans so everyone will switch to it and as a result you'll effectively have a single-payer system since everyone's on that plan. I think what Warren's plan is, and what red is talking about, requires a more active component after the public option implementation phase for it to count here. You note that in that he "doesn't want to do it himself" but I think that's the key distinction here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 11/22/19 7:23:47 PM #359:	LordoftheMorons posted... It's incorrect to say that you're throwing them off of insurance, but it's correct to state that you're telling them to give up insurance that they're familiar with in order for it to be replaced with something that you claim will be better. The question is then whether they trust you to deliver on that promise (which is a function not only of your intentions, but also of the competence of your implementation, and how robust the public plan is to sabotage). In other words, you're asking people to take a big risk with something very important, and it's not a good idea to handwave that away as manufactured. So what if the very existence of private primary insurance sabotages the fundamental ability of Medicare for All fo do its job? --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:930550276] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted... </cite> <quote>It's incorrect to say that you're throwing them off of insurance, but it's correct to state that you're telling them to give up insurance that they're familiar with in order for it to be replaced with something that you claim will be better. The question is then whether they trust you to deliver on that promise (which is a function not only of your intentions, but also of the competence of your implementation, and how robust the public plan is to sabotage). In other words, you're asking people to take a big risk with something very important, and it's not a good idea to handwave that away as manufactured.</quote> So what if the very existence of private primary insurance sabotages the fundamental ability of Medicare for All fo do its job? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17 11/22/19 7:45:53 PM #360:	xp1337 posted... I may be splitting hairs but I wouldn't quite characterize Buttigieg's stance as that. He's arguing for passing a public option and saying that it will be superior to all other private plans so everyone will switch to it and as a result you'll effectively have a single-payer system since everyone's on that plan. I think what Warren's plan is, and what red is talking about, requires a more active component after the public option implementation phase for it to count here. You note that in that he "doesn't want to do it himself" but I think that's the key distinction here. Right, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That second paragraph is a fair description of his stance. His campaign website calls "Medicare For All Who Want It" a "glide-path" to true single payer M4A. He is trying to have it both ways without having to commit to single payer. And recently he's abandoning even that in favor of attacking it because it's strategically beneficial. But that stuff is still on his site. Through Petes Medicare for All Who Want It plan, everyone will be able to opt in to an affordable, comprehensive public alternative. This affordable public plan will incentivize private insurers to compete on price and bring down costs. If private insurers are not able to offer something dramatically better, this public plan will create a natural glide-path to Medicare for All. --- DPOblivion was far more determined than me. <cite>HeroDelTiempo17 posted [p:930551183] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>xp1337 posted... </cite> <quote>I may be splitting hairs but I wouldn't quite characterize Buttigieg's stance as that. He's arguing for passing a public option and saying that it will be superior to all other private plans so everyone will switch to it and as a result you'll effectively have a single-payer system since everyone's on that plan. I think what Warren's plan is, and what red is talking about, requires a more active component after the public option implementation phase for it to count here. You note that in that he "doesn't want to do it himself" but I think that's the key distinction here.</quote> Right, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That second paragraph is a fair description of his stance. His campaign website calls "Medicare For All Who Want It" a "glide-path" to true single payer M4A. He is trying to have it both ways without having to commit to single payer. And recently he's abandoning even that in favor of attacking it because it's strategically beneficial. But that stuff is still on his site. <quote>Through Petes Medicare for All Who Want It plan, everyone will be able to opt in to an affordable, comprehensive public alternative. This affordable public plan will incentivize private insurers to compete on price and bring down costs. If private insurers are not able to offer something dramatically better, this public plan will create a natural glide-path to Medicare for All.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nrrr 11/22/19 8:01:11 PM #361:	https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1197956534854148098 <cite>Nrrr posted [p:930551820] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1197956534854148098 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/22/19 9:18:54 PM #362:	https://twitter.com/KaitMarieox/status/1197300083492044800 this is cultural appropriation tbqh --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930555270] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/KaitMarieox/status/1197300083492044800 this is cultural appropriation tbqh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/22/19 9:24:23 PM #363:	Lev Parnas says he is willing to testify that Devin Nunes was himself attempting to get dirt on the Bidens from Ukraine: https://twitter.com/kyle_feldscher/status/1198059822714892288?s=21 Moooooooooooooooo --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930555483] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Lev Parnas says he is willing to testify that Devin Nunes was himself attempting to get dirt on the Bidens from Ukraine: https://twitter.com/kyle_feldscher/status/1198059822714892288?s=21 Moooooooooooooooo </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/22/19 9:27:17 PM #364:	Why would it be a problem for Nunes to do that? Isn't the whole reason that Joe Biden is supposedly immune from investigation by the white house because he's a potential political opponent of Trump. Biden isn't a potential opponent of Nunes. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930555605] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Why would it be a problem for Nunes to do that? Isn't the whole reason that Joe Biden is supposedly immune from investigation by the white house because he's a potential political opponent of Trump. Biden isn't a potential opponent of Nunes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/22/19 9:27:37 PM #365:	Eww I dont want to see that fucking hideous frog here --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930555614] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Eww I dont want to see that fucking hideous frog here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/22/19 9:38:41 PM #366:	SmartMuffin posted... Why would it be a problem for Nunes to do that? Isn't the whole reason that Joe Biden is supposedly immune from investigation by the white house because he's a potential political opponent of Trump. Biden isn't a potential opponent of Nunes. At minimum it would present an enormous conflict of interest in his role in the impeachment hearings. --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930556079] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted... </cite> <quote>Why would it be a problem for Nunes to do that? Isn't the whole reason that Joe Biden is supposedly immune from investigation by the white house because he's a potential political opponent of Trump. Biden isn't a potential opponent of Nunes.</quote>At minimum it would present an enormous conflict of interest in his role in the impeachment hearings. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/22/19 9:43:22 PM #367:	https://reason.com/2019/11/22/calling-wife-fucking-bitch-in-mutual-argument-unaccompanied-by-any-physical-actions-or-threats-isnt-fighting-words/ court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930556267] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://reason.com/2019/11/22/calling-wife-fucking-bitch-in-mutual-argument-unaccompanied-by-any-physical-actions-or-threats-isnt-fighting-words/ court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/22/19 9:53:42 PM #368:	(It is important to remember, though, that Parnas has incentive to lie and is a scumbag, so its important to corroborate his testimony) --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930556690] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>(It is important to remember, though, that Parnas has incentive to lie and is a scumbag, so its important to corroborate his testimony) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 11/22/19 11:56:54 PM #369:	SmartMuffin posted... court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point why --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:930561199] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted... </cite> <quote>court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point</quote> why </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela 11/23/19 12:56:59 AM #370:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... SmartMuffin posted... court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point why Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"? --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted [p:930563132] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted... </cite> <quote>court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point</quote> why </quote> Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nrrr 11/23/19 6:10:21 AM #371:	https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1198046832527597568 <cite>Nrrr posted [p:930569317] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1198046832527597568 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 11/23/19 10:32:29 AM #372:	Nelson_Mandela posted... ChaosTonyV4 posted... SmartMuffin posted... court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point why Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"? Why would you ever need to use the word? Do you have a lot of heated gamer moments where you have to use racial slurs too? --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:930574763] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Nelson_Mandela posted...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted... </cite> <quote>court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point</quote> why </quote> Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"?</quote> Why would you ever need to use the word? Do you have a lot of heated gamer moments where you have to use racial slurs too?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Grimlyn 11/23/19 11:01:18 AM #373:	lmao that's like the least relevant case for Muffin ever --- https://gmun.moe/ffcc GuessMyUserName's account's very own account! <cite>Grimlyn posted [p:930575664] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>lmao that's like the least relevant case for Muffin ever</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela 11/23/19 11:11:49 AM #374:	Jakyl25 posted... Nelson_Mandela posted... ChaosTonyV4 posted... SmartMuffin posted... court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point why Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"? Why would you ever need to use the word? Do you have a lot of heated gamer moments where you have to use racial slurs too? Nah I save those for when I'm in traffic --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted [p:930576028] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote>Nelson_Mandela posted...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted... </cite> <quote>court rulings that will be vital information to all of us, at some point</quote> why </quote> Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"?</quote> Why would you ever need to use the word? Do you have a lot of heated gamer moments where you have to use racial slurs too?</quote> Nah I save those for when I'm in traffic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/23/19 11:22:12 AM #375:	lmao that's like the least relevant case for Muffin ever im engaged yo but my fiance is a pretty classy lady and it's hard to imagine her doing anything bad enough to warrant me calling her a fucking bitch maybe if she burned dinner... --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930576365] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote><quote>lmao that's like the least relevant case for Muffin ever</quote> im engaged yo but my fiance is a pretty classy lady and it's hard to imagine her doing anything bad enough to warrant me calling her a fucking bitch maybe if she burned dinner...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 11/23/19 1:49:02 PM #376:	https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/politics/navy-discipline-edward-gallagher.html The Secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if Trump halts plans to expel Gallagher from the SEALs. so that's happening --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:930581834] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/politics/navy-discipline-edward-gallagher.html The Secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if Trump halts plans to expel Gallagher from the SEALs. so that's happening</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 11/23/19 1:50:29 PM #377:	What would you set the odds at for Fox to start running a story about a military coup? --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:930581885] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>What would you set the odds at for Fox to start running a story about a military coup?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 11/23/19 1:54:02 PM #378:	Navy Secretary Richard Spencer responded Thursday by telling the White House that a tweet is not an official order and if the president is ordering the Navy to end the Trident Review Board of Gallagher, he needs to do so in writing Lmao the fact that these words need to be spoken even in the year 2019. --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:930581997] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote><quote>Navy Secretary Richard Spencer responded Thursday by telling the White House that a tweet is not an official order and if the president is ordering the Navy to end the Trident Review Board of Gallagher, he needs to do so in writing</quote> Lmao the fact that these words need to be spoken even in the year 2019.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Reg 11/23/19 1:57:42 PM #379:	FFDragon posted... Navy Secretary Richard Spencer god I just had one of the biggest "wait, what" moments I've had in a while before realizing it was a different guy who unfortunately has the same name. <cite>Reg posted [p:930582153] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted...</cite> <quote>Navy Secretary Richard Spencer</quote> god I just had one of the biggest "wait, what" moments I've had in a while before realizing it was a different guy who unfortunately has the same name.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 11/23/19 2:00:00 PM #380:	FFDragon posted... Navy Secretary Richard Spencer responded Thursday by telling the White House that a tweet is not an official order and if the president is ordering the Navy to end the Trident Review Board of Gallagher, he needs to do so in writing Lmao the fact that these words need to be spoken even in the year 2019. I thought Trump declared before that they were --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:930582262] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>FFDragon posted...</cite> <quote><quote>Navy Secretary Richard Spencer responded Thursday by telling the White House that a tweet is not an official order and if the president is ordering the Navy to end the Trident Review Board of Gallagher, he needs to do so in writing</quote> Lmao the fact that these words need to be spoken even in the year 2019.</quote> I thought Trump declared before that they were</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kevwaffles 11/23/19 2:43:39 PM #381:	Glad to see the people leading our armed forces still have a spine. --- "One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land." -Toad, SMB3 <cite>kevwaffles posted [p:930584045] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Glad to see the people leading our armed forces still have a spine.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SgtSphynx 11/23/19 2:45:17 PM #382:	In the military, there is a very specific way that orders have to be delivered --- Congrats to the BYIG Guru Winner, Advokaiser slurps yakisoba nods nods <cite>SgtSphynx posted [p:930584121] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>In the military, there is a very specific way that orders have to be delivered</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FFDragon 11/23/19 2:46:14 PM #383:	Yeah legal orders are very clearly defined. Twitter is not that. --- If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? #theresafreakingghostafterus <cite>FFDragon posted [p:930584149] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Yeah legal orders are very clearly defined. Twitter is not that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 3:02:26 PM #384:	xp1337 posted... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/politics/navy-discipline-edward-gallagher.html The Secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if Trump halts plans to expel Gallagher from the SEALs. so that's happening Good for them --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930584830] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>xp1337 posted... </cite> <quote>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/us/politics/navy-discipline-edward-gallagher.html The Secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if Trump halts plans to expel Gallagher from the SEALs. so that's happening</quote>Good for them </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 3:29:14 PM #385:	Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930586000] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 11/23/19 3:31:10 PM #386:	LordoftheMorons posted... Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. idk i bet CNN is pretty hyped --- Thus is our treaty written; thus is our agreement made. Thought it the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked for was given; the price is paid <cite>NFUN posted [p:930586089] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted...</cite> <quote>Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. </quote> idk i bet CNN is pretty hyped</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Reg 11/23/19 3:35:03 PM #387:	LordoftheMorons posted... Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. I am praying he goes through with this just so we can see what comes out of discovery <cite>Reg posted [p:930586271] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted...</cite> <quote>Nunes says hes going to sue CNN and the Daily Beast for their reporting of Parnass allegations against him: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/rep-devin-nunes-threatens-yet-lawsuit-in-response-to-media-reports-about-him/ This is such a fucking disgusting, anti-press thing for a politician to do. </quote> I am praying he goes through with this just so we can see what comes out of discovery</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 4:16:48 PM #388:	https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1198347776633004039 And a comment from Lisa Page: https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1198334768057921536 --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930588130] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1198347776633004039 And a comment from Lisa Page: https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1198334768057921536 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/23/19 6:55:54 PM #389:	lol, the reads for 60 minutes that CBS is making their sports announcers do on football games literally say "Russia hacked the election", an allegation which is patently false and has zero factual support --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930594791] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>lol, the reads for 60 minutes that CBS is making their sports announcers do on football games literally say "Russia hacked the election", an allegation which is patently false and has zero factual support</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela 11/23/19 7:36:41 PM #390:	SmartMuffin posted... lol, the reads for 60 minutes that CBS is making their sports announcers do on football games literally say "Russia hacked the election", an allegation which is patently false and has zero factual support How else are Dems supposed to reach heartland voters?! --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted [p:930596535] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>lol, the reads for 60 minutes that CBS is making their sports announcers do on football games literally say "Russia hacked the election", an allegation which is patently false and has zero factual support</quote> How else are Dems supposed to reach heartland voters?!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 11/23/19 7:46:54 PM #391:	Nelson_Mandela posted... Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"? Funnily enough, my wife and I jokingly talk shit to each other all the time, and I called her a bitch today. Nrrr posted... https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1198046832527597568 Its really disappointing to see these posts about Bolivia get no discussion. The Bolivian armed forces (combined military and police) have killed 30+ pro-Morales protesters since the election, but he was a bad guy who was Democratically unseated? #doubt --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:930597041] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Nelson_Mandela posted... </cite> <quote>Are you really so beta that you never would see yourself calling a woman a "fucking bitch"?</quote> Funnily enough, my wife and I jokingly talk shit to each other all the time, and I called her a bitch today. Nrrr posted... </cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1198046832527597568</quote> Its really disappointing to see these posts about Bolivia get no discussion. The Bolivian armed forces (combined military and police) have killed 30+ pro-Morales protesters since the election, but he was a bad guy who was Democratically unseated? #doubt </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 8:04:18 PM #392:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... Its really disappointing to see these posts about Bolivia get no discussion. The Bolivian armed forces (combined military and police) have killed 30+ pro-Morales protesters since the election, but he was a bad guy who was Democratically unseated? #doubt Both things can be true --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930597774] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted... </cite> <quote>Its really disappointing to see these posts about Bolivia get no discussion. The Bolivian armed forces (combined military and police) have killed 30+ pro-Morales protesters since the election, but he was a bad guy who was Democratically unseated? #doubt</quote>Both things can be true </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomTheGyarados 11/23/19 8:07:07 PM #393:	No they can't. This is literally a coup in every sense. --- Sir Chris Doom The Kanto Saga - Animated Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hH4wNFCrLM <cite>DoomTheGyarados posted [p:930597890] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>No they can't. This is literally a coup in every sense. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela 11/23/19 8:24:25 PM #394:	ChaosTonyV4 posted... Funnily enough, my wife and I jokingly talk s* to each other all the time, and I called her a b today. So you should be happy that you can't be arrested and searched for it --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted [p:930598675] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>ChaosTonyV4 posted...</cite> <quote>Funnily enough, my wife and I jokingly talk s* to each other all the time, and I called her a b**** today.</quote> So you should be happy that you can't be arrested and searched for it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 11/23/19 8:55:03 PM #395:	LordoftheMorons posted... Both things can be true The military is tracking down and arresting all the Democratically elected members of his party. Literally what are you talking about? How can you believe this? --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:930600020] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>LordoftheMorons posted... </cite> <quote>Both things can be true</quote> The military is tracking down and arresting all the Democratically elected members of his party. Literally what are you talking about? How can you believe this? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 8:59:12 PM #396:	That is not mutually exclusive with Morales having cheated at all I don't see how you could possibly be claiming that it is --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930600194] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>That is not mutually exclusive with Morales having cheated at all I don't see how you could possibly be claiming that it is </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomTheGyarados 11/23/19 9:07:40 PM #397:	Talking with LotM genuinely makes me understand how Trump supporters can believe that he does nothing wrong tbh. Obviously not on the same level at all but like the "missing link" of evolution makes it more clear. It doesn't bother him that there is no media coverage of this, or that the evidence of his "cheating" has been refuted by independent sources, or that even ASSUMING he did wrong it is nowhere near the wrong being committed now against both people and the thought of democracy. But LotM has made his decision, so he won't be swayed because he has made it. --- Sir Chris Doom The Kanto Saga - Animated Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hH4wNFCrLM <cite>DoomTheGyarados posted [p:930600575] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Talking with LotM genuinely makes me understand how Trump supporters can believe that he does nothing wrong tbh. Obviously not on the same level at all but like the "missing link" of evolution makes it more clear. It doesn't bother him that there is no media coverage of this, or that the evidence of his "cheating" has been refuted by independent sources, or that even ASSUMING he did wrong it is nowhere near the wrong being committed now against both people and the thought of democracy. But LotM has made his decision, so he won't be swayed because he has made it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 11/23/19 9:09:34 PM #398:	Im asking for the evidence. We have one group claiming a discrepancy in the quick vote, not even the official tally (which to put it in American terms, is like the estimate before a county clerk actually confirms the results), and as far as Ive read, no other group agreeing. You dont think thats suspicious at all? You dont consider it a coup and think this is a reasonable result? --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:930600675] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Im asking for the evidence. We have one group claiming a discrepancy in the quick vote, not even the official tally (which to put it in American terms, is like the estimate before a county clerk actually confirms the results), and as far as Ive read, no other group agreeing. You dont think thats suspicious at all? You dont consider it a coup and think this is a reasonable result? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 11/23/19 9:11:37 PM #399:	The allegations of cheating have not been definitively refuted And I never claimed that this right wing government is preferable to Morales. But if Obama had had the Supreme Court throw out term limits after trying and failing to overturn the 22nd Amendment and then had appeared to have cheated to beat Donald Trump, I wouldn't be cheering him on just because I knew Trump would have been a horrendously bad president. --- Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge! <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:930600775] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>The allegations of cheating have not been definitively refuted And I never claimed that this right wing government is preferable to Morales. But if Obama had had the Supreme Court throw out term limits after trying and failing to overturn the 22nd Amendment and then had appeared to have cheated to beat Donald Trump, I wouldn't be cheering him on just because I knew Trump would have been a horrendously bad president. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 11/23/19 9:12:39 PM #400:	Honestly when it comes to internal strife within foreign nations, I am increasingly coming to the position that it is entirely inappropriate for Americans to have any opinion whatsoever. Because "Americans have strong opinions on what's going on in Bolivia/Venezuela/Ukraine/Hong Kong/wherever the fuck" is exactly what the deep state wants. Because so long as we have strong opinions on what should be done, we're easily persuaded to involve ourselves in ensuring it is done. I have no idea what the fuck the right thing to do in any of those nations is. And reading a few "long form" articles from some biased as fuck journalists will not change that. So I'm staying the fuck out of it. And I demand my government stay the fuck out of it as well. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:930600821] in Politics C... [t:78176791]...</cite> <quote>Honestly when it comes to internal strife within foreign nations, I am increasingly coming to the position that it is entirely inappropriate for Americans to have any opinion whatsoever. Because "Americans have strong opinions on what's going on in Bolivia/Venezuela/Ukraine/Hong Kong/wherever the fuck" is exactly what the deep state wants. Because so long as we have strong opinions on what should be done, we're easily persuaded to involve ourselves in ensuring it is done. I have no idea what the fuck the right thing to do in any of those nations is. And reading a few "long form" articles from some biased as fuck journalists will not change that. So I'm staying the fuck out of it. And I demand my government stay the fuck out of it as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 249: Phase 1 of a scheduled topic series (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 249: Phase 1 of a scheduled topic series