Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 505: Li'l K Breaking Down The Forbidden Door

(+) Yeah! (+)

Right which is my entire thesis.

She is fine as like the clown warming up the crowd against The Allie Kat on a GCW show before Danhausen and Chris Dickinson go at it.

Shes not good enough to wrestle for AEW.

Remember - the joshi are supposed to be their ringers while they develop young talent. Maki isnt even as good as Anna Jay or Abaddon. And thats not exactly a high bar.

---

Concerning the microphone shots, reportedly they were as crappy as they were because it was hooked up to her headset and it seems like the timing was off and that she couldn't take off her headset before that. Not saying she would have thrown better mic strikes otherwise, but if she had accidentally connected then it probably would've deafened her.

---

NBIceman posted...

But those microphone strikes from the other day that were posted here... I'd be embarrassed to have put that on TV if I was AEW.

FFDragon posted...

Also the mic shots were so bad because it was still live and broadcasting to her headset (so she could hear herself singing), so after the first one she didn't want to make herself deaf. Should have just ripped the thing off though instead of... whatever it was she did

---

Oh hey I should have kept scrolling down first "whoops"

---

Don't know why people are giving Biscuit a hard time for liking a wrestler.

---

I don't really feel like anyone is giving me a hard time over it. I do think Eddv is unfairly critiquing Maki Itoh and is far too invested in it.

I find an entertaining wrestler passable in the ring and enjoyable as a character. I don't really care if anyone does or doesn't like her. I enjoy her. The majority of people seem to enjoy her. And I'll enjoy seeing more of her in the future.

---

Fair enough on the mic shots, then. In that case, I'll bow out of the discussion since I have very little else to judge her by.

---

I just watched the Itoh/Riho match, it was...fine? Nothing special but aside from a really bad repositioning to take the double stomp Itoh didn't really do anything that stood out too poorly (and that might be partially Riho's fault for dropping her too far anyway). The only thing I don't get is that I keep seeing her fans online talk about how her character is so likable and sympathetic and makes you want to see her finally succeed at something, but whatever she might be online she seems like a pretty clear heel on the show.

---

I watched it as well.

Not sure why we hate on Itoh here. It was completely serviceable as a match and Itoh seemed completely fine and imo better than Riho in the match (but I've never thought Riho was very good). I feel like this is "I don't like the gimmick now I'm going to pick apart everything the wrestler does rather than give an honest critique" rather than being genuine. Blame frequenting the politics topic for that.

The gimmick is silly and I'm not sure how on earth it's supposed to be a heel gimmick but it's fun. The only particularly bad thing was one of Itoh's punch volleys-- wanna say it was in the corner but in general it wasn't really a problem.

But yeah even if we're just talking the striking it was fine. The submissions were dare I say good (the lion tamer late and the rolling half crab were good). The million dollar headbutt thing was funny.

Also Itoh is 2 inches taller and I'd estimate a good 15-20 lbs heavier than Riho so not sure why Biscuit is claiming she's smaller? She's not. And that's a good thing.

She's not on par with the better women on the roster or anything and the match wasn't amazing but it was serviceable-- she's got enough charisma that I'd absolutely want to try to get her to be better.

---

I'd say she's a lot like early-mid Miz, max charisma that just needs to tune the fundamentals.

And her gimmick is a heel who has convinced herself she's a face. Or so I thought.

---

I mean she's working heel in terms of the match structure (a term I use loosely for these matches) and in storyline is a heel because she's friends with Britt Baker.

But yeah nothing else in her presentation is heelish - you have friggin Paul Wight singing along to the song.

You compare her to The Miz - but this is like Santino without the solid worker underneath in terms of presentation. Like at least no one's really selling for her offense beyond Shida's selling for those mic shots.

"She does a good rest hold and has one okay spot" is a pretty low bar you guys have set for her to clear here.

---

All well and good to say she's a project with some charisma that just needs work with the in-ring, but she's been at this whole wrestling thing a few years already, working against and training with a lot of great women, and when joshi improve as workers they tend to do it rapidly and toward the beginning of their careers.

Stranger things have happened, but it's more likely than not that she pretty much is what she's going to be in the ring at this point.

---

Lopen posted...

Also Itoh is 2 inches taller and I'd estimate a good 15-20 lbs heavier than Riho so not sure why Biscuit is claiming she's smaller? She's not. And that's a good thing.

I thought she was smaller! My mistake then.

---

I mean, I think she's fine as-is with her level of high charisma and passable ring work and has the potential to get better. It's way easier to teach the in-ring stuff if the person cares (which it seems she does) than it is to teach the "it factor."

---

I should be clear I didn't mean to say I think she's bad or anything. I just thought the Riho match was only just okay, and if that was supposed to be a shining example of her work, it's a low ceiling, currently.

---

But is she better than Eva Marie?

---

In other news, Jack Evans destroyed 10's mouth with a phoenix splash. I saw the aftermath on Sammy's vlog but damn is it nasty.

https://twitter.com/CaptainKabluey/status/1372008061213274112?s=20

---

TheRock1525 posted...

But is she better than Eva Marie?

no, eva marie understood how to get heel heat

---

Eddv posted...

"She does a good rest hold and has one okay spot" is a pretty low bar you guys have set for her to clear here

I mean I'm just saying to say she's Eva Marie level is a joke. She's probably not even worse than half of the AEW women's division. I'd argue she's not even worse than Riho by any appreciable amount. Note this is not high praise as the AEW women's division has a lot of mediocrity in it and only based on one match so it's entirely possible she could in fact be worse than it appears, but yeah.

If you're in the iceman boat saying "she's not great, and may not ever be great because she's had a lot of time to get good and hasn't" that's a completely reasonable viewpoint. But I'll take charismatic wrestlers with passion that can at least probably be carried to fill roster slots all day as long as you have some Shiidas and Statlanders around to be in your headline positions. I'm not saying put her in main events but she might get better and isn't bad as is.

But when you frame things as you've done it really feels like "well this person has a following on the internet I don't feel she deserves so now I'm going to grossly exaggerate things she's bad at" in a great attempt to be cosmic wrestler fandom balance arbiter more than an earnest attempt to actually say how good or bad she is. It's just being a little silly.

---

I am not exaggerating. I think she is exactly as bad as I have said. I think shes a completely useless wrestler and nothing anyone has said has moved me off of that.

---

I mean I've seen enough bad wrestlers to know you're exaggerating the only question is how conscious of it are you

Like I've seen whole divisions that are probably worse at certain points in time. The character is bad as a heel because she does babyface stuff-- so was Alberto Del Rio and I doubt you'll find many people saying he was bad. Overrated sure but not bad

(Editor's note obviously ADR is Leagues better than her in the ring)

---

Or remember that wrestling is pretty subjective.

---

It's subjective to a point

There are some things you can objectively measure just like most subjective mediums

Like I hate Shadow of the Colossus and lots of people love it and I don't get it

Hell I like Hydlide for the NES more than the game

But if I said you know Shadow of the Colossus it's just a worse game than Hydlide I'm just wrong and that's okay because I wouldn't enter a topic and tell some Shadow of the Colossus fan that hey Hydlide is better and then when someone says "what you're crazy" leave my retort at "nah man Hydlide is better cause there's less pointless wandering and who cares if the colossi look epic they're just passable man"

---

Like you can like or dislike a wrestler all you want for any reason you want but sometimes you're reaching so far out of bounds that you pretty much are objectively wrong and need to have a little humility about it and maybe realize you know maybe there's something you're not seeing and it isn't always because the other person likes this wrestler is a simp or whatever random word you picked up off b8 that day you know? (Or that you're an Eva Marie simp look anyone can do it so fun)

---

Lopen posted...

Like you can like or dislike a wrestler all you want for any reason you want but sometimes you're reaching so far out of bounds that you pretty much are objectively wrong and need to have a little humility about it and maybe realize you know maybe there's something you're not seeing and it isn't always because the other person likes this wrestler is a simp or whatever random word you picked up off b8 that day you know? (Or that you're an Eva Marie simp look anyone can do it so fun)

(Her fans are literally called simps)

---

Okay now I feel a little dumb

Overall point stands though

---

There's been plenty of shitty wrestlers that have been pushed hard or worked out just fine. If a character is entertaining enough or fills their role well then people can overlook bad ring work.

If you don't find a bad wrestlers act entertaining or think they are bad at the role overall then obviously they will be awful to you. But should be fairly easy to see that some other people may find the act good.

Sure. I think she bring nothing of value to the table and I will not miss her. Hence the comment "she can stay in japan".

It was SEP being offended by this sentiment that got me to expound.

---

Steiner posted...

no, eva marie understood how to get heel heat

Is this real?

Because Eva Marie only got heel heat because nobody wanted to see her. She never showed any charisma in the ring or acted heelish at all. She was like a zombie wrestler that people didn't want to see.

---

I mean the funny thing is I actually liked Eva Marie's act (not because she was any good but the gimmick was so strong) but saying someone is worse than her is not something I take lightly. I don't think rotten tomatoesing how we judge wrestlers is a good thing

---

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Is this real?

Because Eva Marie only got heel heat because nobody wanted to see her. She never showed any charisma in the ring or acted heelish at all. She was like a zombie wrestler that people didn't want to see.

i'm mostly joking but there was that one bayley match!

---

it's something i'm going to look into subscribing to, but what do those of you here think about the WWE Network shutting down and moving to Peaco*k ??

---

Why did you censor Peacock?

---

Steiner posted...

i'm mostly joking but there was that one bayley match!

Nope, too late, you're an All Red Everything superfan.

---

Charly Caruso of all people has been pulled from TV because she has heat with the wrestlers.

Yo, what? Lol

---

couldve typed it out. but better to play it safe, than risk getting moderated

---

why would you be moderated for saying peacock

---

Eddv posted...

Sure. I think she bring nothing of value to the table and I will not miss her. Hence the comment "she can stay in japan".

It was SEP being offended by this sentiment that got me to expound.

I was making a joke

---

Pikazard1 posted...

it's something i'm going to look into subscribing to, but what do those of you here think about the WWE Network shutting down and moving to Peaco*k ??

Great deal for WWE, probably a bad deal for Peacock

Jurys still out on whether its a win or a loss for subscribers.
---

Well. This seems interesting.

https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1372297137405452289?s=19

---

I want to hear that

---

Here's a summary.

Not as damning as I thought but confirms WWE is a mess.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/m6tuwp/full_notes_from_talk_is_jericho_podcast_with_paul/

---

https://twitter.com/ONEYLORCAN/status/1371880487808077828?s=19

Oney, no!

---

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Here's a summary.

Not as damning as I thought but confirms WWE is a mess.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/m6tuwp/full_notes_from_talk_is_jericho_podcast_with_paul/

How on earth did they pass on John Cena and Justin Beiber teaming up?

---

I think that would've been money, just....like....not against the Wyatts.

---

So AEW not only just had the greatest women's match in their company history, they probably had one of the greatest women's matches in wrestling history.

---

It somehow makes the exploding deathmatch even worse in hindsight.

---

I wasn't able to watch Dynamite live tonight. I'll catch it tomorrow but I'm really happy to hear it!

Bless Thunder Rosa. She is amazing in how quickly she became one of the best.

---

Meanwhile Britt baker's man was being arrested for attempting vehicular manslaughter.

---

https://twitter.com/ImChelseaGreen/status/1372367080914178048?s=20

looking like dawn of the dead up in this bitch


---