Board 8 > What's your stance on the naomi osaka situation?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Osaka.

I can't think of a particularly good reason to force a player to do something outside of the sport they don't want to do. If anything it's just going to result in a negative outcome and cast a poor light on the sport. Plus sports media are a bunch of jackals and can be incredibly gross to an individual. If she doesn't want to degrade herself like that for the sake of her own mental health, good for her, but pushing her to do it will just make an issue for the whole sport that doesn't need to happen.

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The only service post-game press conferences provide is material for the Useless Sound Montage on the Lebatard Show.

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https://youtu.be/yql68BZ_eE8?t=278

Horrible stuff people ask and write about these people.

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If you are a sports profession you have a certain obligation to interviews etc, especially if you are at a big event like the French Open. Like at the Superbowl im sure most of the players dont want to do press day but they do. They have to. Imagine if Lebron James did this, no one would give him a pass.

Regardless of the circumstances of Osaka and how much I feel for her, she could not have expected to be able to have her cake (play in the open) and eat it (not do interviews).

On the one hand, I find sports press conferences to be the least useful thing in the world. On the other hand, people squirming their way out of obligations by blaming invented and undiagnosed "disorders" is a personal pet peeve of mine.

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Sports media's value is overblown, they need the Athletes a lot more than the other around.

Athletes now have their own platforms via social media to curate their brands.

Twitter/Instagram have more value than a few column inches. Heck that's what makes the news most of the time, whatever they post online.

I find it funny how all 4 Grand Slam tournaments instantly joined forces to present a nuclear option.

Wimbledon and US Open are terrified the same will happen to them.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

On the one hand, I find sports press conferences to be the least useful thing in the world. On the other hand, people squirming their way out of obligations by blaming invented and undiagnosed "disorders" is a personal pet peeve of mine.

How do you know it's not something she has been diagnosed with? Not to be flippant, but have you personally followed her around through every moment of her life to confirm this? I get where you're coming from, I felt at first it was kind of a silly thing, but the more I thought about it, the less sense it made to me to demand someone do something that can be characterized as "the least useful thing in the world" just because it's the done thing.

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KokoroAkechi posted...

Imagine if Lebron James did this, no one would give him a pass.

Is this really true?

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KokoroAkechi posted...

If you are a sports profession you have a certain obligation to interviews etc, especially if you are at a big event like the French Open. Like at the Superbowl im sure most of the players dont want to do press day but they do. They have to. Imagine if Lebron James did this, no one would give him a pass.

Regardless of the circumstances of Osaka and how much I feel for her, she could not have expected to be able to have her cake (play in the open) and eat it (not do interviews).

Except she didn't expect a pass? There's a fine for a punishment and she took it. When they threatened to DQ her instead, including for the future, she withdrew - and she did so cordially in a statement acknowledging what she could've done better, commending good journalists, and apologizing.

All the while media's been demonizing her, and the French Open itself publicly uses other athletes presence to throw shade at her in an unbelievably petty tweet directed at someone admitted struggling with depression and mental health issues.

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BlackJackCat posted...

Not to be flippant

It's black turtle, please be flippant by all means

Breaking news: depression apparently not real; totally invented disorder
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BlackJackCat posted...

How do you know it's not something she has been diagnosed with? Not to be flippant, but have you personally followed her around through every moment of her life to confirm this? I get where you're coming from, I felt at first it was kind of a silly thing, but the more I thought about it, the less sense it made to me to demand someone do something that can be characterized as "the least useful thing in the world" just because it's the done thing.

There are things in all of our lives that don't make any sense to do, particularly in our jobs. Someone finds some value in those stupid press conferences, and those people are important enough that it is a contractual requirement for athletes to do the press.

This is like going to your boss, and telling him that you can't do some menial task because you "have" undiagnosed ADHD or something.

I get where she's coming from, but sometimes you have to do shit that you don't want to do because it's important to someone else. I see no point in making our bed in the morning, but it bugs my wife so I do it anyways

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I can see both sides to some extent. Post match interviews are just part of her job. She is fine to do the glamorous part in playing matches, but doesn't want to do the less glamorous part in interviews. Unfortunately most jobs don't work like that, you can't just pick and choose what parts of your job you want to do. Try that, and I guarantee most bosses will either dock your pay (fines in Osaka's case) or sack you (tournament bans). If you can't cope with your job mentally, take some time off, or find something else.

I do agree post match interviews are pointless though and that the French Open is easily the worst of the majors.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

There are things in all of our lives that don't make any sense to do, particularly in our jobs. Someone finds some value in those stupid press conferences, and those people are important enough that it is a contractual requirement for athletes to do the press.

This is like going to your boss, and telling him that you can't do some menial task because you "have" undiagnosed ADHD or something.

I get where she's coming from, but sometimes you have to do shit that you don't want to do because it's important to someone else. I see no point in making our bed in the morning, but it bugs my wife so I do it anyways

So you're saying you don't know if she has actually been diagnosed or not? Okay.

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MZero posted...

Being good at tennis doesn't

Getting paid millions of dollars to play tennis does

Why?

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What is the purpose of those interviews?

To promote the sport or provide content for the journos outlets?

She's done more in the last year to promote the sport via her own channels than anyone else and I'm sure her sponsors are very happy with her.
Her presence at tournaments is what brings customers to tennis tournaments so the broadcasters need her.

The only thing that's not really needed anymore are the pretty obsolete media people who can dish but can never take.

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Ringworm posted...

Unfortunately most jobs don't work like that, you can't just pick and choose what parts of your job you want to do. Try that, and I guarantee most bosses will either dock your pay (fines in Osaka's case) or sack you (tournament bans). If you can't cope with your job mentally, take some time off, or find something else.

damn it's almost like most jobs suck and have no respect for the workers

Try this angle - you get injured at your job and can no longer perform some parts of it. What's the most appropriate outcome? Pay cut for being injured? Fired immediately so you can be replaced with someone else? Or do you just seek an exception and continue to do the work you're able to do for the time being?

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This topic is like a fucking case study on why mental health in our society is so shit.

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Ringworm posted...

I can see both sides to some extent. Post match interviews are just part of her job. She is fine to do the glamorous part in playing matches, but doesn't want to do the less glamorous part in interviews. Unfortunately most jobs don't work like that, you can't just pick and choose what parts of your job you want to do. Try that, and I guarantee most bosses will either dock your pay (fines in Osaka's case) or sack you (tournament bans). If you can't cope with your job mentally, take some time off, or find something else.

I do agree post match interviews are pointless though and that the French Open is easily the worst of the majors.

The fact that you think she doesn't want to do it because it's "not glamorous" is such a horrendous indictment of the way we treat social anxiety

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1bdx1hbnj20

That first question. Those are the kind of BS you have to deal with in a press conference.

Not saying what Osaka is doing is right or wrong.

The other problem with looking at this like an every day job is that Osaka is the number two player in the WTA, and I'm sure she has quite a lot of fans.

Most people don't have strangers to support them, up to and including the old "vote with your wallet" tactic when you get fired. All this spat seems to do, in my eyes, is show that the sport is run by assholes who want to push toxic bullshit because reasons.

This is not really the same thing.

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yeah, this is a complicated one

on the one side, the french open is a very unsympathetic organization, naomi osaka is great, sport needs to talk more about mental health, and press conferences are arguably super outdated

on the other hand, osaka announced this fairly out of the blue a few days back, I'm not sure that it was even possible for the sport to reform overnight just for her. the question of privilege and unfair advantage is also interesting - she undoubtedly has the money to accept a fine for skipping a difficult part of her job and focusing more on matches, but other less famous players don't. on the other hand, you can argue that osaka's press conferences will be longer and more scrutinized than other players, so maybe that's a unfair disadvantage for her in normal circumstances.

it's also hardly a coincidence that this happened when Osaka was in fairly bad form, and unlikely to do that well in the tournament. would this have happened at the US open? unlikely.

I dunno, it's a messy topic, and anyone who says it isn't is oversimplifying. I just hope she feels better soon and can get the help that she needs, then maybe there can be a more constructive dialogue about this stuff.

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redrocket posted...

This topic is like a fucking case study on why mental health in our society is so shit.

You can trace the problem directly to the rise of pseudo science garbage sites like WebMD, and everyone saying "Oh wow I've felt sad before that must mean I'm depressed! Yay I have a disorder I can base my entire personality around!". The sad part is, the people who actually have clinical depression can't get the help they need because of all the people collecting mental disorders like Pokemon to show off to their friends.

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I'm going to do a nice thing for my own mental health and put black turtle on ignore lol

Paratroopa1 posted...

I'm going to do a nice thing for my own mental health and put black turtle on ignore lol

Block him. He really hates that.

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wouldn't it make him more mad if he knows

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

You can trace the problem directly to the rise of pseudo science garbage sites like WebMD, and everyone saying "Oh wow I've felt sad before that must mean I'm depressed! Yay I have a disorder I can base my entire personality around!". The sad part is, the people who actually have clinical depression can't get the help they need because of all the people collecting mental disorders like Pokemon to show off to their friends.

This sounds oddly specific and probably based on little to no personal experiences.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

wouldn't it make him more mad if he knows

I think it's seeing all the missing posts that sets him off.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

The sad part is, the people who actually have clinical depression can't get the help they need because of all the people collecting mental disorders like Pokemon to show off to their friends.

Yes, THATS why people cant get mental health care, not the exorbitant cost and lack of health care coverage or anything
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StealThisSheen posted...

I think it's seeing all the missing posts that sets him off.

well I blocked him so hopefully that makes him really mad

Kenri posted...

Why?

...because the people paying the millions decided it is? If you don't want to follow their rules, you don't have to play in their to play in their tournaments.

voltch posted...

What is the purpose of those interviews?

To promote the sport or provide content for the journos outlets?

She's done more in the last year to promote the sport via her own channels than anyone else and I'm sure her sponsors are very happy with her.
Her presence at tournaments is what brings customers to tennis tournaments so the broadcasters need her.

The only thing that's not really needed anymore are the pretty obsolete media people who can dish but can never take.

No one would know who she is if she didn't play in the big tennis tournaments tbh

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People weren't lining up to interview her until her rise and annihilation of Serena.

I don't see every single player get the same demands from journos.

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I cant see how people can be on the organizers side here. They said she needed to pay fines and she did, no issue. But they didn't get their way so they threatened with more and she followed those rules as well. She dropped out since she wasnt going to do them, and was like, that's fair, not complaining, I'm out.

She followed the procedure the whole time like a "good employee".

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MZero posted...

No one would know who she is if she didn't play in the big tennis tournaments tbh

So does this also mean there's secret tennis players out there who are better than any of the pros, and they just haven't gotten their limelight? Basically Hollywood?

That's an even worse indictment than handling mental health poorly. "It's no more corrupt and abusive than Hollywood!"

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MZero posted...

...because the people paying the millions decided it is? If you don't want to follow their rules, you don't have to play in their to play in their tournaments.

Pretty circular reasoning. Might as well have just said "it is because it is."

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

You can trace the problem directly to the rise of pseudo science garbage sites like WebMD, and everyone saying "Oh wow I've felt sad before that must mean I'm depressed! Yay I have a disorder I can base my entire personality around!". The sad part is, the people who actually have clinical depression can't get the help they need because of all the people collecting mental disorders like Pokemon to show off to their friends.

actual fucking clown take


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Giggsalot posted...

yeah, this is a complicated one

It's really not. Nothing said in any post-match interview, in any sport, has ever been of any real value. It's journalists asking softball questions that athletes answer in the most boring way possible, because the journalists need the soundbites to fluff up their pieces and the competitions/leagues need media coverage to increase their cash flow. The athletes gain nothing tangible from playing along, and the general public learns nothing of any importance from the entire process.

It's a meaningless exercise, and Osaka decided it wasn't worth the mental effort to go through it. So she said so, the French Open said "that's a breach of contract, we're fining you", Osaka said "okay then fine me", and the tennis people realized they had just allowed her to blow off press conferences for the low low price of 15 grand a piece. So they doubled down and threatened to ban her from future events until she played along, and in response Osaka took her ball and went home. There's no reasonable way to see the events as anything other than the French Open being manipulative bullies upset that they can't get one of the most famous tennis players in the world to dance to their tune.

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Kenri posted...

Pretty circular reasoning. Might as well have just said "it is because it is."

No, it's not. Money doesn't just appear in your bank account because you're good at tennis, it has to come from somewhere. It's a business agreement, and part of it includes media availability. I can't tell you exactly why because I'm not a tennis tournament organizer but it's safe to say their motives are financially driven. It's just like any other job, if the people who control the money deem it necessary you can either do it, try to convince them otherwise, or seek other employment.

But hey, if a tennis player can make a satisfactory amount of money without playing in those tournaments, more power to them!

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MZero posted...

No, it's not. Money doesn't just appear in your bank account because you're good at tennis, it has to come from somewhere. It's a business agreement, and part of it includes media availability. I can't tell you exactly why because I'm not a tennis tournament organizer but it's safe to say their motives are financially driven. It's just like any other job, if the people who control the money deem it necessary you can either do it, try to convince them otherwise, or seek other employment.

That's all well and good, but the purse from participating and winning tennis matches is not the bread and butter of a player. So again, this falls short. If her endorsements take issue with her stances, certainly this is a problem, but why should press events where endorsements are rarely made concern them?

Thus is comes down to why even do them to begin with. So we're left with this:

Kenri posted...

Pretty circular reasoning. Might as well have just said "it is because it is."

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BlackJackCat posted...

That's all well and good, but the purse from participating and winning tennis matches is not the bread and butter of a player. So again, this falls short. If her endorsements take issue with her stances, certainly this is a problem, but why should press events where endorsements are rarely made concern them?

Thus is comes down to why even do them to begin with. So we're left with this:

I don't think you're getting my point. If she (or any other player) wants to play in the tournament, she has to fulfill the media obligations. If she's fine with just the endorsements then she doesn't need to enter the tournament, and thus doesn't have to do any press. (granted I imagine she would lose a lot of endorsements by not playing)

So why is she entering the tournament to begin with? Money? Fame? Legacy? The chance to play other top players? Regardless, if she can get whatever it is she wants without entering the tournament, then she can decide whether she wants to do media or not.

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Way too much respect being paid for profit margins for billionaires tbh

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I don't watch tennis, but in football (soccer) you could literally copy+paste every interview after a win/loss for a player. It's so mediatized that they're basically not saying anything anyway, so I rarely see the need for it. I also wonder how many people actually watch those.

In team sports, I understand interviewing the manager to get insight into a gameplan, but players is just press masturbation in the hopes of them being emotional and stirring the pot against other players/managers/referees/... .

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You get a ton of money by being part of the organisation, so you're supposed to follow the rules that absolutely every other player needs to follow. Of course, she could create her own tennis organisation and set different rules.

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The people saying suck it up buttercup in here have clearly never dealt with depression or anxiety.

100% with Naomi here.

Having anxiety should not preclude people from being successful at things like sports or acting. Just because you can do one thing in front of millions doesn't mean another task is instantly easy for you.

Plus post and pre game pressers are generally a waste of time and only ask trash questions. Tennis especially they are awful to the players and ask stupid shit all the time. Even more so the French media to the women. Even even more to the ones that aren't white.

There will always be players more than happy to talk. Let them. Make it voluntary. Just because its past practice doesn't mean its right. We live in a different world now where people are allowed to feel uncomfortable and have emotions without being told fuck you do your job. You can adapt a workplace to make people comfortable.

Would it cause a loss of money? Maybe. Maybe not. I think media would adapt because they have to.

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Media interviews of athletes suck. If an athlete doesn't want to do it, just replay a clip of any interview with Mike Leach. That's what the people want to see. "Journalists" whose careers rely on this garbage should find a different line of work.

The whole way the media and the tournament organizers are handling this really struck a nerve for me. It's the same kind of "shut up and don't get uppity" reaction that occurred after Kaepernick started kneeling during the national anthem, or any time NCAA players say they should be getting paid.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Way too much respect being paid for profit margins for billionaires tbh

RyoCaliente posted...

I don't watch tennis, but in football (soccer) you could literally copy+paste every interview after a win/loss for a player. It's so mediatized that they're basically not saying anything anyway, so I rarely see the need for it. I also wonder how many people actually watch those.

In team sports, I understand interviewing the manager to get insight into a gameplan, but players is just press masturbation in the hopes of them being emotional and stirring the pot against other players/managers/referees/... .

Yes on all counts

For the record Osaka is okay with doing interviews (since I see a lot people acting like she wont do any media stuff). It's the press conference with hundreds of reporters that she wasnt sure she could handle.

She even asked the Feench Open ahead of time I'd she could do her press conferences with a more limited number of people but they refused. If they had agreed she would have done the press conference just like she did the on court interview.

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MZero posted...

I don't think you're getting my point. If she (or any other player) wants to play in the tournament, she has to fulfill the media obligations.

She has to fulfill the media obligations OR pay a 15k fine. That's the contract she signed, and she followed it to the letter.

What you are arguing is that regardless of her contract, she must do the interview or else she can't play tennis, and the tourney can harass her for it. You're gonna have to really step it up to convince people that she is a slave to the media and society because she's good at hitting a ball.

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