Current Events > Crowbcat has made me realize video games are actually getting worse.

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F1areaGaman
02/04/22 10:30:34 PM
#1:


Although games look prettier on the surface, in reality the systems, physics, dynamism and simulation elements of games are getting glossed over in favor of lighting and resolution. It's happening in almost every major franchise. Games feel so placid and fake right now. There are exceptions, but the 7th gen with their multi-core, giga advanced CPU's seemed to be pushing simulation elements wayyyyyyyyyy more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVtZJo-HqI

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Doom_Art
02/04/22 10:47:36 PM
#2:


Did Rockstar not tone down the physics realism after IV because a bunch of people complained the game wasn't fun with them

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Northlane
02/04/22 10:48:33 PM
#3:


Big publishers know they don't have to try anymore because there's so many people playing video games nowadays that millions will buy whatever you put out even if it's a lesser product than one that came before

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Jagr_68
02/04/22 11:09:45 PM
#4:


It's not just the games. He's been showcasing for years how godfuckingawful the capitalist gaming industry and toxic community are.

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hockeybub89
02/04/22 11:11:17 PM
#5:


Nah

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F1areaGaman
02/05/22 12:16:00 AM
#6:


Doom_Art posted...
Did Rockstar not tone down the physics realism after IV because a bunch of people complained the game wasn't fun with them


I think it was just the driving being too realistic people were upset with.

But messing with the physics in GTA IV is the best part of the game. Pushing people into water, having Niko realistically go flying thru the window and dying in slow mo is hilarious.

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FortuneCookie
02/05/22 12:21:04 AM
#7:


Northlane posted...
Big publishers know they don't have to try anymore because there's so many people playing video games nowadays that millions will buy whatever you put out even if it's a lesser product than one that came before

This.

Studios and publishers will give audiences the minimum they demand.
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St0rmFury
02/05/22 12:24:46 AM
#8:


2021 has produced a lot of AAA stinkers.

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#9
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Nukazie
02/05/22 12:29:29 AM
#10:


it was obvious

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Ricemills
02/05/22 12:34:50 AM
#11:


what's his opinion about the color of the sky and the humidity of water?

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Guerrilla Soldier
02/05/22 12:34:52 AM
#12:


maybe but comparing crappy gta4 to the superior gta5 to try to prove a point aint the way to do it

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MrMallard
02/05/22 1:02:28 AM
#13:


I disagree with that video title, I think GTAV is amazing and while it's beloved today, GTAIV didn't exactly launch with the most goodwill in the world y'know. Saying that, if you've been following video game news over the past decade, then yeah - it's easy to see how the gaming space is getting worse.

Whether you watch YongYea's news breakdown videos, or listen to podcasts like the old TOVG podcast with Super Bunnyhop and MattVisual, or pay attention to public reception around games that limit their availability to players for no good reason (Diablo 3, SimCity 2013, Asura's Wrath with its DLC final chapter) - you can see how games are getting more and more anti-consumer. First it was microtransactions, then it was unnecessary online-only requirements, then it was XP boosters, then it was live service gaming, now it's the nebulous and disingenuous shoehorning of NFTs and blockchain technology into video games.

Hell, even game development is becoming more hostile for people who work in that industry. Look at how studios like Visceral Games were dissolved. Look at any talented dev in the past 12 years who've joined the multi-billion dollar publishing side of gaming, folded into internal studios that make resources for "tentpole" releases like Call of Duty. Shit, not even the Kickstarter boom was great for most devs - Ken Levine has proven to be a dickhead to work with, Playtonic is barely treading water, Keiji Inafune was basically outed as a fraud, and the only people who seemed to have escaped either of those scenarios with some degree of autonomy and respect are Hideo Kojima and Koji Igarashi. Even Platinum has struggled due to their nature as an external studio that works for other companies, as well as stuff like Scalebound collapsing and The Wonderful 101 underperforming on all accounts, even on Switch.

The thing about the centralisation of game development under a single conglomerate, i.e. Microsoft buying Bethesda and Activision-Blizzard, is that all of those monetization trends initially began in the seventh generation of consoles. And what's important to note is that that's the generation where companies like EA, Activision and Ubisoft really began to ramp up that centralisation model - snapping up smaller studios to fold into a far larger game producing machine. All this stuff with Microsoft and Sony buying up other companies? It's a decades long story of a small fish getting eaten by a bigger fish being eaten by the biggest fish, before that fish is devoured whole by a megalodon.

So yeah, with game development turning into an industry that makes more money than the movie industry, we saw games go from "how do we develop immersive and fun gameplay in this new dimension of interactive entertainment" to "how do we appeal to as many people as possible and make the most money". That used to be accomplished with a distinctive artstyle and imaginative features. From the seventh generation on, we saw a focus on realism, particle effects and celebrity tie-ins, and the gameplay became tedious and unpleasant so you would feel incentivised to spend money for the game to skip over the tedious bullshit they programmed in. We traded in visual design and fun gameplay for Kevin Spacey in Call of Duty, and that's a result of game development becoming centralised under a handful of corporate conglomerates using people like fleshlights to shit out as many compromised corporate products as possible.

I think that's why "indie games" became such an essential part of the gaming ecosystem when they did. Independent development represents a more pure attempt at game creation, even if it tends to get clogged up with incompetent asset flips and derivative works. For every Vroom in the Night Sky or Windscapes, you have a Night in the Woods or A Hat in Time.

I dunno. Again, I disagree with the premise of the linked video because people gave GTA4 a mountain of shit when it came out, and to this day I still think GTA5 - while compromised, especially Online - is a masterpiece and one of the pinnacles of its generation. But there certainly is a lot to say about the state of the gaming industry today, and how if you pay attention for long enough, you can see and feel the soul of video games being sucked out through its own ass.

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F1areaGaman
02/05/22 1:50:27 AM
#14:


MrMallard posted...
I disagree with that video title, I think GTAV is amazing and while it's beloved today, GTAIV didn't exactly launch with the most goodwill in the world y'know. Saying that, if you've been following video game news over the past decade, then yeah - it's easy to see how the gaming space is getting worse.

Whether you watch YongYea's news breakdown videos, or listen to podcasts like the old TOVG podcast with Super Bunnyhop and MattVisual, or pay attention to public reception around games that limit their availability to players for no good reason (Diablo 3, SimCity 2013, Asura's Wrath with its DLC final chapter) - you can see how games are getting more and more anti-consumer. First it was microtransactions, then it was unnecessary online-only requirements, then it was XP boosters, then it was live service gaming, now it's the nebulous and disingenuous shoehorning of NFTs and blockchain technology into video games.

Hell, even game development is becoming more hostile for people who work in that industry. Look at how studios like Visceral Games were dissolved. Look at any talented dev in the past 12 years who've joined the multi-billion dollar publishing side of gaming, folded into internal studios that make resources for "tentpole" releases like Call of Duty. Shit, not even the Kickstarter boom was great for most devs - Ken Levine has proven to be a dickhead to work with, Playtonic is barely treading water, Keiji Inafune was basically outed as a fraud, and the only people who seemed to have escaped either of those scenarios with some degree of autonomy and respect are Hideo Kojima and Koji Igarashi. Even Platinum has struggled due to their nature as an external studio that works for other companies, as well as stuff like Scalebound collapsing and The Wonderful 101 underperforming on all accounts, even on Switch.

The thing about the centralisation of game development under a single conglomerate, i.e. Microsoft buying Bethesda and Activision-Blizzard, is that all of those monetization trends initially began in the seventh generation of consoles. And what's important to note is that that's the generation where companies like EA, Activision and Ubisoft really began to ramp up that centralisation model - snapping up smaller studios to fold into a far larger game producing machine. All this stuff with Microsoft and Sony buying up other companies? It's a decades long story of a small fish getting eaten by a bigger fish being eaten by the biggest fish, before that fish is devoured whole by a megalodon. And what we view as games getting less good is one symptom of that process, of which we may have seen the logical conclusion of - short of Disney buying Microsoft, of course.

So yeah, with game development turning into an industry that makes more money than the movie industry, we saw the difference in how game developers decided to answer the question of "how do we appeal to as many people as possible and make the most money". That used to be accomplished with a distinctive artstyle and imaginative features - because that's the extent of what they could do with the technology, but also because that sweet spot between draw distance and texture resolution and Kevin Spacey being uploaded into Call of Duty afforded people a lot of creative freedom to produce visually and mechanically interesting video games. From the seventh generation on, we saw a focus on realism, particle effects and celebrity tie-ins, and the gameplay became tedious and unpleasant so you would feel incentivised to spend money for the game to skip over the tedious bullshit they programmed in.

We traded in visual design and fun gameplay for Kevin Spacey in Call of Duty, and that's a result of game development becoming centralised under a handful of corporate conglomerates using people like fleshlights to shit out as many compromised corporate products as possible.

I think that's why "indie games" became such an essential part of the gaming ecosystem when they did. Independent development represents a more pure attempt at game creation, even if it tends to get clogged up with incompetent asset flips and derivative works. For every Vroom in the Night Sky or Windscapes, you have a Night in the Woods or A Hat in Time.

I dunno. Again, I disagree with the premise of the linked video because people gave GTA4 a mountain of shit when it came out, and to this day I still think GTA5 - while compromised, especially Online - is a masterpiece and one of the pinnacles of its generation. But there certainly is a lot to say about the state of the gaming industry today, and how if you pay attention for long enough, you can see and feel the soul of video games being sucked out through its own ass.

I agree with this post, and I also LOVE GTA Vand the single player campaign is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had--not only was the campaign full of variety, a funny story and just FUN to play, the world itself was amazing.

GTA IV's campaign was not as good. I liked the story a lot, but most missions are "chase" "shoot" "dialog and driving" missions. It was still fun, but the variety is not there.

BUT....the systems were much more impressive. And the world was at least as impressive, though not as big, just as detailed even if the video technology was worse, the physics, animation and world interactivity seemed better.

The newest example on his channel is the new game that's a clone of Left for Dead compared to Left for Dead. In the over 10 year old game, The zombies are wayyyyyyyy more dynamic, have more AI routines attached, have more animations and physics attached, the environment is far more interactive, etc. Games are becoming like plastic toy stores you watch events thru....when it gen VII it seemed like we were getting close to fully interactive game worlds with it's own rules and systems.

I think this is part of the reason why BoTW was so successful. It was a return to that 7th gen style of game design of physics, world interactive, rules, etc.

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Doe
02/05/22 1:58:44 AM
#15:


He literally just makes a clipshow of every difference that casts a negative light on the thing he wants to show is 'worse'.


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MagnusDJL
02/05/22 2:12:37 AM
#16:


Man, it's like he always or almost always makes videos about controversial or mishandled games and only focuses on negative things or something...
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Jagr_68
02/05/22 9:21:00 AM
#17:


Doe posted...
He literally just makes a clipshow of every difference that casts a negative light on the thing he wants to show is 'worse'.

Uhhhh yes?

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The_Dan_Haren
02/05/22 9:27:04 AM
#18:


GTA 5 was definitely better than 4. As far as storylines go, GTA 3 and VC were probably the best, followed by SA, then 5, then 4.
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Feline_Heart
02/05/22 9:32:06 AM
#19:


hockeybub89 posted...
Nah


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FurryPhilosifer
02/05/22 9:32:19 AM
#20:


I get the impression V was a bit cobbled together. It was announced as being about "the pursuit of the great american dollar", which was barely important in the story, and the game was 60% being blackmailed into doing spy stuff for the sake of having cool missions. There was loads of early info Rockstar talked about that ended up different come the final game, like "we aren't including fitness or stats". Despite having the fewest missions of any GTA game, loads of them aren't even related to the story, and the "final bosses" had barely done anything in the plot at all.

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fohstick
02/05/22 9:33:50 AM
#21:


you just realized this now?
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Southernfatman
02/05/22 9:37:54 AM
#22:


IV > V in may ways. Story, characters, setting, astmosphere, overal vibe, physics, car damage, etc. V had more stuff to do, but most of it is kinda eh. I still like V very much, but IV was a better experience for me.

FurryPhilosifer posted...
I get the impression V was a bit cobbled together. It was announced as being about "the pursuit of the great american dollar", which was barely important in the story, and the game was 60% being blackmailed into doing spy stuff for the sake of having cool missions. There was loads of early info Rockstar talked about that ended up different come the final game, like "we aren't including fitness or stats". Despite having the fewest missions of any GTA game, loads of them aren't even related to the story, and the "final bosses" had barely done anything in the plot at all.

Yeah. They seemed to hype up a different version of what we got. I didn't like that V is more of a spy/mercenary game than a crime one. The story is fine, but it seems you do more work for the government than anyone. The final mission is a bit of a letdown because it seems tacked on or rushed. Stuff like buying properties and such seemed to be hyped as well, but those were obviously rushed and we couldn't even get new safehouses.

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FurryPhilosifer
02/05/22 9:43:19 AM
#23:


Southernfatman posted...
Yeah. They seemed to hype up a different version of what we got. I didn't like that V is more of a spy/mercenary game than a crime one. The story is fine, but it seems you do more work for the government than anyone. The final mission is a bit of a letdown because it seems tacked on or rushed. Stuff like buying properties and such seemed to be hyped as well, but those were obviously rushed and we couldn't even get new safehouses.
Definitely. One of my biggest complaints with the game is that there's just so little criminal underworld stuff. It all feels tangential. Half the drama in IV and the expansions revolved around one bag of cocaine, whereas most of V is like something from a Bond movie, with trains blowing up and fighting tanks. I like those things, but I wish we had the low level stuff too.

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--Zero-
02/05/22 9:48:25 AM
#24:


Some games stand out as better graphically while others just use an "artistic direction" that makes graphics not look realistic.

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Southernfatman
02/05/22 9:53:07 AM
#25:


FurryPhilosifer posted...
Definitely. One of my biggest complaints with the game is that there's just so little criminal underworld stuff. It all feels tangential. Half the drama in IV and the expansions revolved around one bag of cocaine, whereas most of V is like something from a Bond movie, with trains blowing up and fighting tanks. I like those things, but I wish we had the low level stuff too.

IV did the criminal element well. You actually feel like you're in the middle of the seedy underworld with all these various gangs and organized crime and the various alliances and rivalries between them. I liked even the simple stuff like being a bodyguard for a drug deal, hijacking trucks with TVs and prescription pills, and stealing cars. Even when it ramps up to the stolen diamonds it still doesn't feel too over the top and still feels relatively real.

Another thing that V seemed to hype up that eventually got changed was activity centered around Franklin. His trailer implied a bunch of street gang stuff, but we barely get any of that. I would have been fine if V started with low level street activities and there was a steady build up to the government spy heists, but they got caught up with that stuff too quickly. SA had the Mike Toreno missions and even a casino heist, but it took a minute to get there story wise and it felt more earned doing that crazy stuff.

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Background_Guy
02/05/22 11:19:04 AM
#26:


GTA IV sucked

Crowbcat just makes biased click bait videos for angry gamers
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apolloooo
02/05/22 11:20:42 AM
#27:


Only the pedestrian shitty AAA game greedy corporate fucks peddles.

Videogame is better than ever if you look further down the much of invasive marketing and famous brand name

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#28
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bioshockjack
02/05/22 11:35:42 AM
#29:


I enjoyed V but I still find myself going back to IV more often. I actually enjoyed the driving in IV and I find the physics more fun as well. Vs driving and rag doll physics feel more stiff to me

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Hayame Zero
02/05/22 11:37:04 AM
#30:


This cherrypicker's channel is still going on?

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BlockAddition
02/05/22 11:38:25 AM
#31:


Games have been getting worse since the PS360, era this isn't disputable

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#32
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Turtlebread
02/05/22 12:50:03 PM
#33:


it depends what games you play

CRPGs are still amazing

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E_S_M_Z
02/05/22 1:01:18 PM
#34:


BlockAddition posted...
Games have been getting worse since the PS360, era this isn't disputable

idk. I have no real problem with the PS4 generation of games.
But I go back and notice stuff like Mass Effect, Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, GTA5, Gears of War...all prior generation...what we got that was tremendously exciting in the last gen? Hell, even Breath of the Wild was technically a Wii-U game, lol.

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#35
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dancing_cactuar
02/05/22 1:27:41 PM
#36:


The Back 4 blood video would have been a better example, Back 4 Blood's proof that gaming peaked 2010 or so at the absolute most generous and AAA developers and publishers are constantly exhuming the ideas of the past at this point.

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CoorsLight
02/05/22 2:03:53 PM
#37:


Doe posted...
He literally just makes a clipshow of every difference that casts a negative light on the thing he wants to show is 'worse'.

MagnusDJL posted...
Man, it's like he always or almost always makes videos about controversial or mishandled games and only focuses on negative things or something...


Background_Guy posted...
Crowbcat just makes biased click bait videos for angry gamers

These. Shit is exhausting. Gamers just love to have shit to complain about. People have gone insane in like the last 10 years saying that the death of gaming is imminent, yet they still are super invested in it, even though it supposedly sucks ass (in reality it keeps growing bigger and bigger).

Sure there are some modern trends that suck, but people act like there were never shitty games 20-30 years ago, and never want to talk about all the good advances, like how easy it is to get access to good games at great prices.
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F1areaGaman
02/05/22 2:36:52 PM
#38:


CoorsLight posted...
These. Shit is exhausting. Gamers just love to have shit to complain about. People have gone insane in like the last 10 years saying that the death of gaming is imminent, yet they still are super invested in it, even though it supposedly sucks ass (in reality it keeps growing bigger and bigger).

Sure there are some modern trends that suck, but people act like there were never shitty games 20-30 years ago, and never want to talk about all the good advances, like how easy it is to get access to good games at great prices.

I can see why you're mad, There are great games still...I mean, I love pretty much all of Nintendo's stuff the last ten years, RDR2 is game with that attention to detail lacking in games like EA's bullshit and Ubisofts BS.


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Garioshi
02/07/22 1:39:17 PM
#39:


Indie games are the future. Obviously the AAA releases still have their place (the modern Resident Evils are the shining example of this), but for the majority of the industry, they're vehicles to make as much money as they possibly can.

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DespondentDeity
02/07/22 1:43:24 PM
#40:


Gamers ruined gaming

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ViewtifulJoe
02/07/22 1:51:42 PM
#41:


I like the Dead Rising 4 to Dead Rising 1 comparison as well as the CSGO hysteria and forgotten TF2 design one.

I don't really need a clip show of what was wrong with each all hype no substance scam but they might make nice nostalgia filled time capsules for next gen when you have to pay to open the disc tray and the run button is dlc or whatever.

7th gen it started going downhill fast, 8th gen it got way too fast to stop. This gen is the same as 8th so far.

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CoorsLight
02/07/22 1:54:39 PM
#42:


ViewtifulJoe posted...
for next gen when you have to pay to open the disc tray and the run button is dlc or whatever

Lol this is exactly what I mean

People were saying this kind of sky is falling shit in like 2008
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FurryPhilosifer
02/07/22 4:34:36 PM
#43:


CoorsLight posted...
People were saying this kind of sky is falling s*** in like 2008
Yeah, people have been saying this kind of stuff as long as I've been reading about games.

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apolloooo
02/08/22 3:43:27 AM
#44:


YWS-is-King posted...
This is literally a fucking lie.
it's not. there's just so much amazing stuff coming out today but there's so many games and AAA have relentless marketing so the amazing one doesn't get that much spotlight, or overshadowed by the next big games. in 2019 alone we got things like outer wilds, disco elysium, pathologic 2 (albeit very niche). last year we got psychonauts 2

there are the games i'd put on the same tiers of legendary games of the 90s or early 2000s, which IMO they do stuff even better.

like few of my top pre-2010 games
fallout 1/2
planescape torment
zelda majora's mask
ff ix
skies of arcadia
dmc 3
etc

right now the great games are less famous because there are so many stuff coming out, and there's once masterpieces over another. the "legendary" games of the yesteryears get famous and remembered because the competition isn't as tight and the niches hasn't formed yet.

AAA games are 98% garbage, that far I am agree, but If you're willing to look beyond, 2015 and above is the golden age of gaming

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Punished_Blinx
02/08/22 3:56:00 AM
#45:


Most people consider GTAV the better game though. Like it almost looks like a generation ahead. Sacrificing some helicopter water effects to get there is more than worth it.

Specific details are cool but 99% of the time they don't really matter. GTAV had tons of its own ones anyway.

It is pretty funny seeing people act like the 360 generation was the peak though. Gonna be the PS4 generation in a few years.

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