Current Events > Naruto's friendship with Sasuke was such nonsense, it killed the show for me

(+) Yeah! (+)

It just didn't feel earned at all. Sasuke was a straight up dick to him from the beginning, there were less than a handful of moments where he wasn't an outright cock.

And then the entire rest of the show is devoted to Naruto trying to save his "best friend". It never felt like it made any sense.

To recap, here is the entire sasuke timeline:

• is a dick
• is a dick
• is a dick
• shows something approaching basic non-hostility
• is a mega dick
• is an unbelievable turbo dick
• flies straight off the edge of human decency into mass murderer territory
• lmao im cool now all good

Sigh

Masashi Kishimoto was in love with Sasuke and Itachi. I have never seen the rival of the MC get this much attention ever. Not Vegeta, not Ken, not Shadow, not even Kaiba.

Apparently the editors pushed Kishimoto to focus more on Sasuke because his character was popular. His backstory was interesting, but yeah he was essentially just a moody jerk.

You mean sacrificing yourself for your bro isnt enough for you? Nah that moment it made sense why Naruto became so obsessed over him

Shikamaru was definitely way more of a friend and OG than Sasuke ever was to Naruto.

Arguably the first to acknowledge Narutos potential among his peers.
Dedicated his entire goal to becoming his right hand man
When you look back, it was him who helped Naruto mourn Jiraiyas death
I think I recall Shikamaru even visiting Naruto in the hospital to sit with him. I don't recall Sakura his own teammate,, doing that until maybe Part 2 when her stockholm syndrome crush left the village.

And several other things.

Seaman_Prime posted...

You mean sacrificing yourself for your bro isnt enough for you? Nah that moment it made sense why Naruto became so obsessed over him

Not if your bro becomes fucking evil.

LightningThief posted...

Shikamaru was definitely way more of a friend and OG than Sasuke ever was to Naruto.

Arguably the first to acknowledge Narutos potential among his peers.
Dedicated his entire goal to becoming his right hand man
When you look back, it was him who helped Naruto mourn Jiraiyas death

And several other things.

Pretty much this.

It makes sense. Naurto is an emotionally stunted kid who is obsessed with making friends

The show goes over this many times. Sasuke is a dick but Naurto would have done the same thing for Gaara or Rock Lee. They're his friends

Being hit with the very idea of having to hold Sasuke accountable for his bs made him have a panic attack lol

It's a kid's show but Sasuke did show to be very protective of both Naruto and Sakura in the early days. Then Kishimoto decided to turn him heel at the drop of a hat and give him super emo antics. Then at the end of the show, they have a battle to the death and, once again, Khimoto decides to turn him face and he's now forgiven by everyone.

I found it more comical that Orochimatu just casually walks around free, after attempting a literal Coup and causing the death of the Hokage. And that was after years of cruel and sadistic experiments on people.

ElGatoBravo posted...

I found it more comical that Orochimatu just casually walks around free, after attempting a literal Coup and causing the death of the Hokage. And that was after years of cruel and sadistic experiments on people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYIlET3szA

The funny thing is, when all's said and done, Sasuke didn't even actually do many bad things.

For his kill count, Deidara was himself already "kill on sight" anyway for being in the Akatsuki, Itachi already had one foot in the grave as it was, and Danzo's death was arguably a net positive given everything he'd done.

He certainly made threats, but basically didn't follow through on any of them.

Mystereave posted...

The funny thing is, when all's said and done, Sasuke didn't even actually do many bad things.

For his kill count, Deidara was himself already "kill on sight" anyway for being in the Akatsuki, Itachi already had one foot in the grave as it was, and Danzo's death was arguably a net positive given everything he'd done.

He certainly made threats, but basically didn't follow through on any of them.

Didn't he try to kill karin and sakura?

Naruto and Sasuke are both reincarnations of the two dudes in the past. Those two dudes were always destined to fight each other. In this case, Naruto and Sasuke were bound for each other eventually, no matter the reason. Oh yeah, the two dudes were brothers. So in a way, Naruto and Sasuke are related, so it makes sense that Naruto would want to save him.

Also, Sakura should have gotten with Rock Lee, not Sasuke.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Also, Sakura should have gotten with Rock Lee, not Sasuke.

Why you hate my boy Rock Lee? What he do to you?

Solar_Crimson posted...

Also, Sakura should have gotten with Rock Lee, not Sasuke.

Nice guy incel Lee?

Yeah Naruto and Sasukes dynamic is basically like a battered wife staying with the husband who beats her. But then too, so is Naruto and Sakura and Naruto and the village at large. Maybe he just likes being abused.

Pikachuchupika posted...

Naruto and Sasuke are both reincarnations of the two dudes in the past. Those two dudes were always destined to fight each other. In this case, Naruto and Sasuke were bound for each other eventually, no matter the reason. Oh yeah, the two dudes were brothers. So in a way, Naruto and Sasuke are related, so it makes sense that Naruto would want to save him.

That is the worst thing Kishimoto introduced to the story at the 11th hour.

LeCh0nk posted...

That is the worst thing Kishimoto introduced to the story at the 11th hour.

Ya know it could have worked if it was introduced early and developed. Not just randomly near the end of the series "Oh yeah these two are descended from major, ancient ninja clans that no one has ever mentioned"

MisterPengy posted...

Ya know it could have worked if it was introduced early and developed. Not just randomly near the end of the series "Oh yeah these two are descended from major, ancient ninja clans that no one has ever mentioned"

I suspect that the writers don't necessarily want to do this but studios/publishers pressure them to keep upping the stakes.

Bleach did the same thing. It wasn't enough that Ichigo had a big spirit power. No he had to be the chosen one with part-everything blood in him by the end.

I was confused about his obsession with Sasuke but I guess its more along the lines of him wanting to surpass Sasuke. He saw him as a rival...just a bit later it felt too much like he saw Sasuke as a friend...and there was not much evidence to prove that they were friends.

I feel like they jumped the gun with the CHuunin Exams because the arc with Zabuza had a lot more depth to it and then it just turned into your back to basics Shonen series.

I actually agree that it was overplayed for how one sided it was.

I know it actually builds the foundation for Naruto's desire to redeem his foes rather than destroy them, but you never really see the payoff expressed that way - It's really just a broad fan theory that mostly tracks.

MisterPengy posted...

Ya know it could have worked if it was introduced early and developed. Not just randomly near the end of the series "Oh yeah these two are descended from major, ancient ninja clans that no one has ever mentioned"

I don't necessarily agree with that. Having that concept takes away a lot of the individual character agency. Like they fought each other not because Naruto wanted to save his best friend from his own path of vengeance, but because their ancestors did the same thing.

We can't choose who we love TC

pinky0926 posted...

I suspect that the writers don't necessarily want to do this but studios/publishers pressure them to keep upping the stakes.

Bleach did the same thing. It wasn't enough that Ichigo had a big spirit power. No he had to be the chosen one with part-everything blood in him by the end.

Bleach actually foreshadowed Ichigo being a Quincy early on when he had a Quincy Cross like bedsheets very minor but the hint was there

In Naruto's case he's obviously not an emotionally healthy and stable individual
He handles loneliness the way Batman handles death and can't give up on a teammate/friend

Sasuke was the most generic "bad emo boy" archetype ever. The fact he even became so popular just absolutely amazes me.

GS4Life posted...

Bleach actually foreshadowed Ichigo being a Quincy early on when he had a Quincy Cross like bedsheets very minor but the hint was there

Source for this? Sounds like a stretch even if its true.

LeCh0nk posted...

I don't necessarily agree with that. Having that concept takes away a lot of the individual character agency. Like they fought each other not because Naruto wanted to save his best friend from his own path of vengeance, but because their ancestors did the same thing.

If fate was so set in stone that agency didn't matter, then Naruto would've failed to save Sasuke and the cycle would continue.

It was broken due to Naruto's efforts and strength of character, though. He did it because he wanted to, regardless of whether or not some old man from generations past said it would happen.

Every time this discussion comes up, I can't help but think about Half-Blood Prince and the chapter where Dumbledore just gets increasingly annoyed that Harry is focusing entirely on the prophecy about him and ignoring his own feelings.

LeCh0nk posted...

I don't necessarily agree with that. Having that concept takes away a lot of the individual character agency. Like they fought each other not because Naruto wanted to save his best friend from his own path of vengeance, but because their ancestors did the same thing.

Yeah, but if you actually develop it you can make it more than that. But that's a major "what if" scenario and I doubt Kishimoto ever planned it early enough for that to have been possible.

ElGatoBravo posted...

It's a kid's show but Sasuke did show to be very protective of both Naruto and Sakura in the early days. Then Kishimoto decided to turn him heel at the drop of a hat and give him super emo antics. Then at the end of the show, they have a battle to the death and, once again, Khimoto decides to turn him face and he's now forgiven by everyone.

I found it more comical that Orochimatu just casually walks around free, after attempting a literal Coup and causing the death of the Hokage. And that was after years of cruel and sadistic experiments on people.

sounds like trump

Mystereave posted...

The funny thing is, when all's said and done, Sasuke didn't even actually do many bad things.

For his kill count, Deidara was himself already "kill on sight" anyway for being in the Akatsuki, Itachi already had one foot in the grave as it was, and Danzo's death was arguably a net positive given everything he'd done.

He certainly made threats, but basically didn't follow through on any of them.

He didn't do much but he certainly tried to. He made a serious attempt to kill Bee, the Raikage's little brother, then tried to kill the Raikage himself after crashing the Five Kage Summit. Then he tried to kill Karin, Sakura, and Naruto after killing Danzo. Sasuke just wasn't very good at being a villain.

AgentCoulson posted...

He didn't do much but he certainly tried to. He made a serious attempt to kill Bee, the Raikage's little brother, then tried to kill the Raikage himself after crashing the Five Kage Summit. Then he tried to kill Karin, Sakura, and Naruto after killing Danzo. Sasuke just wasn't very good at being a villain.

Sounds like Vegeta

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Sounds like Vegeta

Yeah. All of Vegeta's kills turned out to be for the better. Cui, Appule, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Recoome, Burter and Jeice were all working the real big bad. The only villainous kills Vegeta ever made were the people at the World Tournament but that's the equivalent of Sasuke killing a bunch of unnamed samurai at the 5KS.

more like sa

https://youtu.be/1aRNNC9DI94?si=Bz5rF-mpYBw535-a

Sadly part 1 just didnt last long enough to make their relationship believable. Team 7 was a thing for a few months, maybe half a year max. And half that was spent preparing for the chunin exam.

Sakuras feelings were even worse on the matter. Shonen series love establishing close bonds amongst people while completely ignoring the time aspect.

Series like JJK are especially bad in this regard.

Bro, when the chips were down, Sasuke literally got in the way of Haku's attack and almost died for Naruto. Did you see the look on Naruto's face?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5708e959.jpg

Naruto was shocked to see what Sasuke did for him. Despite it all, Sasuke cared enough to put his own body in the way of an attack meant for Naruto.

They were rivals, but ultimately they would have died for each other when they were part of Team 7. There are several instances of this kind of thing throughout part 1. We mostly see their rivalry and bickering during downtime, but Sasuke literally declared Naruto to be his closest friend, and Sasuke ultimately chose not to kill Naruto while Naruto was down at the Valley of the End.

So...yeah, no, they were definitely close.

AgentCoulson posted...

Yeah. All of Vegeta's kills turned out to be for the better. Cui, Appule, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Recoome, Burter and Jeice were all working the real big bad. The only villainous kills Vegeta ever made were the people at the World Tournament but that's the equivalent of Sasuke killing a bunch of unnamed samurai at the 5KS.

Vegeta also killed a lot of innocent namekians so that was kinda fucked up

AgentCoulson posted...

Yeah. All of Vegeta's kills turned out to be for the better. Cui, Appule, Dodoria, Zarbon, Guldo, Recoome, Burter and Jeice were all working the real big bad. The only villainous kills Vegeta ever made were the people at the World Tournament but that's the equivalent of Sasuke killing a bunch of unnamed samurai at the 5KS.

Vegeta's whole backstory is he exterminates races for the Sayains/Freeza. When he's introduced he's seen eating the remains of an alien

Prestoff posted... Sasuke was the most generic "bad emo boy" archetype ever. The fact he even became so popular just absolutely amazes me.

Source for this? Sounds like a stretch even if its true.

https://imgur.com/a/nYgCBjI

https://imgur.com/a/O6sCgh1

He was Naruto's first kiss.

JoeDangIt posted...

He was Naruto's first kiss.

lmao also true

JoeDangIt posted...

He was Naruto's first kiss.

The story does make the most sense when you think of Naruto as bisexual.

Yeah I never understood it either.

ButteryMales posted...

The story does make the most sense when you think of Naruto as bisexual.

Honestly this would have been like great natural gay representation in manga. The guy already acts like he has a raging hard on for Sasuke

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Vegeta also killed a lot of innocent namekians so that was kinda fucked up

Forgot about that village he slaughtered. Those guys stayed dead too.

pinky0926 posted...

Didn't he try to kill karin and sakura?

Sasuke also slaughtered a whole squad of samurai at the War Summit thing.

AgentCoulson posted...

Forgot about that village he slaughtered. Those guys stayed dead too.

and he gloated about it when the namekians were like "wait that village is still missing"

Null_Gain posted...

Sasuke also slaughtered a whole squad of samurai at the War Summit thing.

They don't count. They're NPC's.

AgentCoulson posted...

Forgot about that village he slaughtered. Those guys stayed dead too.

I mean there was also blowing up the entire planet of Arlia for shiggles on the way to Earth.

Didn't they literally kiss in like the first 3 episode?

Prismsblade posted...

Sadly part 1 just didnt last long enough to make their relationship believable. Team 7 was a thing for a few months, maybe half a year max. And half that was spent preparing for the chunin exam.

Sakuras feelings were even worse on the matter. Shonen series love establishing close bonds amongst people while completely ignoring the time aspect.

Series like JJK are especially bad in this regard.

Some calculates the time the Straw Hats been together and it was like barely a year before timeskip lmao.

Of course in real world time the manga lastes for many years.