Current Events > UK NHS bans trans women from women's wards in hospitals.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Here are some: https://whatthetrans.com/cass-review/

Ive skim read it. Will read it in full later. A big part seems to be devoted to the lack of decent research which is one of the key findings of the report was more research was needed. Also how clinical pathway decisions have been made while ongoing research is still in progress. Ill read the rest this afternoon and come back to you.

Cheers btw for actually being willing to have a discussion. It is genuinely appreciated and discussion is massively important.

The issue with the report and with the majority of shit that gets thrown around is cis doctors and psychologists can only academically grasp trans issues, they want to use systems that are built for and by cis people.

Trans medical care needs to be fronted by trans people who have experience and not just a sterile academic "understanding."

A good example of this is doctors prescribing HRT at levels they would give to say a post-menopausal cis woman instead of much more effective doses.

It's really why if/when I do HRT I will be going DIY with blood tests. Cis medical institutions can't be trusted to get it right when their intentions are good and it is lethal when not.

Thats one of the reasons I agree with the findings that more research is needed to make sure trans people get the treatment they deserve.

I don't think anyone would argue that there shouldn't be more research.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

The issue with the report and with the majority of shit that gets thrown around is cis doctors and psychologists can only academically grasp trans issues, they want to use systems that are built for and by cis people.

Trans medical care needs to be fronted by trans people who have experience and not just a sterile academic "understanding."

A good example of this is doctors prescribing HRT at levels they would give to say a post-menopausal cis woman instead of much more effective doses.

It's really why if/when I do HRT I will be going DIY with blood tests. Cis medical institutions can't be trusted to get it right when their intentions are good and it is lethal when not.

The fucked up thing is that hormones are still technically being prescribed off label when given as trans care. So you have to find a doctor that knows what they're doing to properly monitor your levels and adjust your dosage accordingly. I got lucky to get a doctor that specializes in trans care, but that's not the reality for most

Honestly not a bad idea at all though to consider DIY, since you'll know how to respond to changes in your body best, and all the information is out there. I have a good doctor and I still consider it from time to time since the longer lasting estradiol esters aren't available in the US

MrToothHasYou posted...

This is sort of a misunderstanding of the NHS usage of the term ward. In the US a ward is like a department, a cluster of individual rooms for one or two patients all requiring the same kind of care and sectioned off from the rest of the hospital. In NHS hospitals, instead of having clustered rooms for individuals, generally have large rooms with 4-8 beds with privacy curtains and a single shared bathroom. These beds are under the supervision of a single head nurse, and the room itself is called a ward. Some wards are specialized (maternity, oncology, emergency, etc.) but even the general population are all placed in wards. Under the 2012 amended NHS Constitution, all NHS wards must be single-sex, with exceptions for certain emergency situations or wards for certain kinds of treatment such as chemotherapy.

This means that if you are admitted to an NHS hospital as a general patient, you are placed in a mens ward or a womens ward.

The new proposal would see that transgender women are not allowed to be placed in wards for women, meaning they would either be placed in mens wards, or they would have to have separate wards specifically for transgender patients.

Okay. That's fucked, then. Here in Canada we have rooms with four beds and they just put all genders in them.

ai123 posted...

She is a genuine, fully qualified paediatric specialist who has done good work in the past.

Huh.

Kinda sad, then. Wonder what happened to her.

SHRlKE posted...

Thats one of the reasons I agree with the findings that more research is needed to make sure trans people get the treatment they deserve.

You know that "more research" is literally being used as an excuse/code for "deny them any kind of affirming treatment as long as possible because we refuse to recognize their status as genuine," right?

Deliberately harming children by denying them care under the banner of "not enough research" when we already know denying them this care is harmful.

DnDer posted...

You know that "more research" is literally being used as an excuse/code for "deny them any kind of affirming treatment as long as possible because we refuse to recognize their status as genuine," right?

Deliberately harming children by denying them care under the banner of "not enough research" when we already know denying them this care is harmful.

I think those are two separate, albeit both important, points.

All health care needs continuous research and reviews to make sure the care on offer is the best it can be.

AND

Trans people need more support. I dont agree with people misusing the research for their own agenda and thats wrong but that doesnt mean there shouldnt be ongoing research / changes to care to ensure people get the best care possible.

Maybe this is a question like you say people using research to force their anti trans agenda and again I agree thats wrong. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt have the research in the first place. Thats an issue of preventing it being used for the wrong reasons.

They arent mutually exclusive. Weve had posters in this very topic stating that current care is predominantly devised by CIS health workers and there should be changes made with input by Trans people. I completely agree with that point.

SHRlKE posted...

I think those are two separate, albeit both important, points.

All health care needs continuous research to make sure the care on offer is the best it can be. AND

Trans people need more support.

They arent mutually exclusive.

How does trans women being near cis women in the hospital hurt the first point?

DnDer posted...

Huh.

Kinda sad, then. Wonder what happened to her.

Probably nothing.

Her views on trans issues weren't a factor when she was doing pioneering work with neurologically impaired children. Which is how she got her reputation as a top paediatrician.

People are capable of doing good things and bad things.

hockeybabe89 posted...

How does trans women being near cis women in the hospital hurt the first point?

I think you think Im replying to a different point that the one I am. Maybe I didnt do a good job quoting the right post I dunno. This particular train of discussion is about me supporting ongoing research to make sure trans people get the best care possible. I was mid edit when you quoted my post so maybe the edited version clarifies things. Let me know if you have any specific queries. Im happy to discuss.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Theres two discussions going on in the same topic now. One about the OP and one about the CASS report. Maybe a separate topic would be better to avoid the conclusion.

Eat_More_Beef posted...

I can kinda see why. Now, maybe I'm ignorant in the subject, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but women's wards aren't about keeping women away from men for safety, it's because the doctors/nurses that work on those wards are specialists in the anatomy of a biological woman.

You start dropping biological dudes in there, then you need more doctors for a specificity that is no longer specific.

Like, don't put heart problem patients on the cancer ward.

I apologize if some of my nomenclature is outta date. Just correct me if so and I'll change my wording.

It worries me that someone should feel afraid of voicing such logical statements.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

(Not directed at you)
Then why are they telling certain patients who they can see for care?

Ilishe posted...

It worries me that someone should feel afraid of voicing such logical statements.

Uh, it's only logical if you know jackshit about trans women

Last time I shared content that shows how the Cass Report is harmful, it was shot down with the same bogus hand waving as a biased source even though it was from a highly respected journalist for trans issues (Erin Reed.)

There's a ton of problems with the report and it is not helpful, following a pattern of treating gender affirming care as unproven and experimental because they want to throw out evidence and research. It's a dogmatic and harmful approach and way behind. I would bet dollars to donuts Hilary Cass was intentionally chosen for her views on providing gender affirming care to minors, and she went about crafting this review accordingly.

Her methodology has already been deconstructed as deeply unethical.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

They say 'reasonably possible' to cover for events like emergencies or staffing issues where it may not be.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


This at least won't happen. All beds are fully enclosed with privacy curtains on the wards. No one is undressed in view of others.

Eat_More_Beef posted...

biological woman.

biological dudes

Hadn't seen this post til just now but lol

CSCA33 posted...

I would bet dollars to donuts Hilary Cass was intentionally chosen for her views on providing gender affirming care to minors

No takers. UK governments don't set up enquiries unless they a) unavoidable, or b) they are fairly sure what the outcome will be.

This falls under b).

ai123 posted...

This at least won't happen. All beds are fully enclosed with privacy curtains on the wards. No one is undressed in view of others.

Hyperbole of stripping in front of strangers aside it will, as designed, force women to be in a ward surrounded by men and men in wards surrounded by women. I'm sure the supporters of the ban and the report that informs it will be happy.

A lot like bathroom and sports bans because the bulk of supporters ignore trans men exist.

ai123 posted...

This at least won't happen. All beds are fully enclosed with privacy curtains on the wards. No one is undressed in view of others.

My gran was in a ward while coming to the end and yeah you are right beds etc have privacy curtains but she needed help to go to the toilets and shower etc and it was a ward staffed with women. So I guess potentially still an issue but replace other patients with health staff.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Hadn't seen this post til just now but lol

Which is why I won't use that wording anymore because someone corrected me on it. I didn't realize it was hurtful and now know better.

Ilishe posted...

It worries me that someone should feel afraid of voicing such logical statements.

I mean, people shouldn't be afraid because I believe he was speaking in good faith, but it shouldn't be accepted as logical or scientifically accurate

Rowling's orgasm from this will flood England.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Rowling's orgasm from this will flood England.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5d9ab3fb.jpg

Gwynevere posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5d9ab3fb.jpg

FWIW Rowling is supposed to be the butt of that joke for being an out of touch hag on the wrong side of history.

ForsakenHermit posted...

FWIW Rowling is supposed to be the butt of that joke for being an out of touch hag on the wrong side of history.

I know, but the imagery is just