Current Events > The way Goldeneye 007 was developed, it should've been the worst game ever.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's fascinating how the development of Goldeneye happened >_>

-It's a licensed movie game lol
-The dev team was a 10 person team, with 8 of them never even worked on a game before
-They didn't have a N64 dev kit until later on. They used an Onyx computer with a Saturn controller to develop the game first because the specs were similar
-There was a 3 month period where Nintendo stopped funding the project because they lost faith in it, but Rare didn't want the team to lose morale, so Rare funded the project themselves in secret without tell the dev team
-Multiplayer was put in the game 6 weeks before launch by 1 guy. He did it as a side project and didn't tell the management at Rare and Nintendo until the game was basically gold. Since it was so late in development, they just kept it in.
-They just made all the levels first, then decided what they wanted to do with them, instead of the opposite which is what most dev teams do.
-At the last minute, there was a bug with the Frigate stage that would screw up all the textures if played a certain way. They were so strapped for time that a programmer had to make a fix within a day and didn't even have time to test it before shipping it back. Luckily it worked.

It's amazing this game was so fucking good >_>
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I never got the hype with this game. I had it and I did my best to give it a chance, but it was just another first person shooter to me, which is by far my least favorite genre. I was just never able to get into it. I actually gave my copy to a friend back then

Mario Kart 64 was where it was at for me
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Yet Sonic hasn't had a decent game since 1994.
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Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games but I'd overall rather be playing Nightfire or a Medal of Honor game than play Goldeneye tbh. It's a fine game and all but definitely not the best.
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The only things that have topped how fun 4-player Goldeneye 007 was for me have been

-16 player Halo: CE at LAN parties
-64 player Battlefield 2 and 4
-Gears of Wars 3 multi

I can't play 007 nowadays because it's shit compared to modern games but that was my jam back then
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frozenshock posted...

I never got the hype with this game. I had it and I did my best to give it a chance, but it was just another first person shooter to me, which is by far my least favorite genre. I was just never able to get into it. I actually gave my copy to a friend back then

Mario Kart 64 was where it was at for me

It doesn't hold up well because half the stuff it introduced or at least popularized have become standard practice.

But it was just a really really solid shooter with good multiplayer that raised the bar for every game that followed it.

Same as Half-Life. Go back and play Half Life now and you'll go "So what's the fuss about?"
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UnfairRepresent posted...

frozenshock posted...

I never got the hype with this game. I had it and I did my best to give it a chance, but it was just another first person shooter to me, which is by far my least favorite genre. I was just never able to get into it. I actually gave my copy to a friend back then

Mario Kart 64 was where it was at for me

It doesn't hold up well because half the stuff it introduced or at least popularized have become standard practice.

But it was just a really really solid shooter with good multiplayer that raised the bar for every game that followed it.

Same as Half-Life. Go back and play Half Life now and you'll go "So what's the fuss about?"

It doesn't hold up because the controls are god awful, compared to games now.
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LordRazziel posted...

It doesn't hold up because the controls are god awful, compared to games now.

Aside from ladders I think the controls in Half Life are fine
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Goldeneye controls are fine >_> It's just a slower paced game and it emphasizes aiming your shots instead of just strafing and spraying.

Plus Goldeneye still has cool animations that newer games don't even have nowadays lol. Like you can shoot their hand and they'll drop their gun and grab their hand, you can shoot their legs or junk and they'll react, and such.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

frozenshock posted...

I never got the hype with this game. I had it and I did my best to give it a chance, but it was just another first person shooter to me, which is by far my least favorite genre. I was just never able to get into it. I actually gave my copy to a friend back then

Mario Kart 64 was where it was at for me

It doesn't hold up well because half the stuff it introduced or at least popularized have become standard practice.

But it was just a really really solid shooter with good multiplayer that raised the bar for every game that followed it.

Same as Half-Life. Go back and play Half Life now and you'll go "So what's the fuss about?"

Half Life is still solid
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Don't forget, the guy running the project had so many misfires that they named the worst gun in the game after him.

Oh maybe you're right >_> But I know for a fact in Goldeneye their guns get bullet holes/paint on them if you shoot them though.
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EffectAndCause posted...

Yet Sonic hasn't had a decent game since 1994.

Sonic generations came out in 2010, not 1994
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Goldeneye is amazing, one of the best games ever made. But yeah, it shouldn't have been as good as it was, although it still should've been very good, even with those problems.

I think the biggest potential problems was how Nintendo kept trying to wreck it. First, they wanted it to be some generic side-scrolling platformer with guns, on the SNES, and they also wanted it so at the end, you went to a hospital and shook hands with all the people you hurt, and they weren't even dead. These suggestions were awful. It's a good thing Rare did just their own thing.

On a side note, I can't believe how bad Rare are these days. I haven't bought anything by them in about 10 years. The ideas for games seem quite bad, and they don't like look much fun to play.

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Sunhawk posted...

Goldeneye is amazing, one of the best games ever made. But yeah, it shouldn't have been as good as it was, although it still should've been very good, even with those problems.

I think the biggest potential problems was how Nintendo kept trying to wreck it. First, they wanted it to be some generic side-scrolling platformer with guns, on the SNES, and they also wanted it so at the end, you went to a hospital and shook hands with all the people you hurt, and they weren't even dead. These suggestions were awful. It's a good thing Rare did just their own thing.

On a side note, I can't believe how bad Rare are these days. I haven't bought anything by them in about 10 years. The ideas for games seem quite bad, and they don't like look much fun to play.

Their team is pretty much gone. A good portion of them left to start up their own video game companies or projects.
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There's a bunch of interesting stories about different games' development issues. Mega Man 2 was made completely in the spare time of the devs, since they were working on some stupid detective game and the studio wanted that prioritized. IIRC there was a super late bug in Final Fantasy that caused them to hotfix cartridges right before shipping or something like that. Developing software never goes as planned, especially when the end product is a creative product. That's part of the charm.
I think Miyamoto said in an interview that Zelda 2 was his least favorite because it turned out exactly like they planned.
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Perfect Dark is way better than Goldeneye tbh
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I always wonder how many people who hate on Goldeneye used the default controls and not Turok controls
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Damn_Underscore posted...

I always wonder how many people who hate on Goldeneye used the default controls and not Turok controls

When I come back to the game in recent years I always use the control scheme where you have your left thumb on the d-pad for movement and your right thumb on the joystick for aiming. Makes it so much more bearable. Is that the Turok scheme?
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Garioshi posted...

Perfect Dark is way better than Goldeneye tbh

Nah. Multiplayer-wise, Perfect Dark is better, but singleplayer-wise, Goldeneye's is better.
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NeonOctopus posted...

Garioshi posted...

Perfect Dark is way better than Goldeneye tbh

Nah. Multiplayer-wise, Perfect Dark is better, but singleplayer-wise, Goldeneye's is better.

Perfect Dark has Goldeneye beat on that front, too. Its objectives are so much more complex, and it actually tells you when you fail.
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Garioshi posted...

Perfect Dark is way better than Goldeneye tbh

Truth right here. Still Goldeneye was great.
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I heard some people played the game as a shooter instead of tilting the cartridge and turning it into a dancing game.
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M_Live posted...

Perfect Dark >

It has some innovations that no game has really replicated since, and it's a damn shame.
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Superlinkbro posted...

Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games

What?

Goldenye did nothing new for FPS

weapon_d00d816 posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

I always wonder how many people who hate on Goldeneye used the default controls and not Turok controls

When I come back to the game in recent years I always use the control scheme where you have your left thumb on the d-pad for movement and your right thumb on the joystick for aiming. Makes it so much more bearable. Is that the Turok scheme?

The Turok controls are using the c buttons (right thumb) to move and using the control stick (left thumb) to aim and look around

The Turok controls sound better because you also have the A and B buttons and that's also how you normally hold the N64 controller
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Garioshi posted...

M_Live posted...

Perfect Dark >

It has some innovations that no game has really replicated since, and it's a damn shame.

Such as?
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1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

M_Live posted...

Perfect Dark >

It has some innovations that no game has really replicated since, and it's a damn shame.

Such as?

Hands-down the best FPS multiplayer ever made, each weapon having two functions (essentially making them 2 guns), amazing AI, counteroperative mode, and the endless ways to complete tasks.
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Garioshi posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

M_Live posted...

Perfect Dark >

It has some innovations that no game has really replicated since, and it's a damn shame.

Such as?

Hands-down the best FPS multiplayer ever made, each weapon having two functions (essentially making them 2 guns), amazing AI, counteroperative mode, and the endless ways to complete tasks.

Counter-operative mode was pretty silly. The enemy side had a huge advantage seeing as they had far more lives and bullets still do regular damage. I'm not sure what you mean with "endless ways to complete tasks" seeing as objectives were well-defined and levels were mostly linear. The rest was done better by other FPSs of the time.
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1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

M_Live posted...

Perfect Dark >

It has some innovations that no game has really replicated since, and it's a damn shame.

Such as?

Hands-down the best FPS multiplayer ever made, each weapon having two functions (essentially making them 2 guns), amazing AI, counteroperative mode, and the endless ways to complete tasks.

Counter-operative mode was pretty silly. The enemy side had a huge advantage seeing as they had far more lives and bullets still do regular damage. I'm not sure what you mean with "endless ways to complete tasks" seeing as objectives were well-defined and levels were mostly linear. The rest was done better by other FPSs of the time.

I worded that very poorly; I meant that the tasks were complex and had many methods of failure.

Multiplayer peaked with Perfect Dark. No other game has its level of customization.
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TheMarthKoopa posted...

Superlinkbro posted...

Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games

What?

Goldenye did nothing new for FPS

Name all those other great FPS games for consoles before it.
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goldeneye and sonic 2 have some really interesting development histories for me
sonic adventure has a lot of neat prerelease content and prototypes that i wish could be explored or discovered more
same with mario 64

The way the enemies react to being shot is really impressive. Additional objectives in harder modes is also something that should be more common.
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anyone who picked Oddjob was a scrub
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SlashmanSG posted...

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Superlinkbro posted...

Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games

What?

Goldenye did nothing new for FPS

Name all those other great FPS games for consoles before it.

Name all of those great FPS games for consoles after it that weren't in response to Halo.

OctilIery posted...

SlashmanSG posted...

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Superlinkbro posted...

Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games

What?

Goldenye did nothing new for FPS

Name all those other great FPS games for consoles before it.

Name all of those great FPS games for consoles after it that weren't in response to Halo.

So you've got nothing? Didn't think so.
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Garioshi posted...

I worded that very poorly; I meant that the tasks were complex and had many methods of failure.

Multiplayer peaked with Perfect Dark. No other game has its level of customization.

Not true even if we only take consoles into account. The Timesplitters series has more customization, more modes, and even a level editor.
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SlashmanSG posted...

OctilIery posted...

SlashmanSG posted...

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Superlinkbro posted...

Yeah it paved the way towards FPS games

What?

Goldenye did nothing new for FPS

Name all those other great FPS games for consoles before it.

Name all of those great FPS games for consoles after it that weren't in response to Halo.

So you've got nothing? Didn't think so.

It inspired a wave of FPS games for consoles, but not really good ones,and the few exceptions, like avp and powerslave, didn't really take much influence from goldeneye. The genre didn't become popular for consoles until after Halo, which actually had a huge amount of influence on the overall genre, not just on its console presence.

1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

I worded that very poorly; I meant that the tasks were complex and had many methods of failure.

Multiplayer peaked with Perfect Dark. No other game has its level of customization.

Not true even if we only take consoles into account. The Timesplitters series has more customization, more modes, and even a level editor.

Timesplitters was done by a lot of the same devs as Goldeneye and PD right? It's a shame what happened to Free Radical.
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SlashmanSG posted...

Name all those other great FPS games for consoles before it.

lmao console FPS

Darmik posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

Garioshi posted...

I worded that very poorly; I meant that the tasks were complex and had many methods of failure.

Multiplayer peaked with Perfect Dark. No other game has its level of customization.

Not true even if we only take consoles into account. The Timesplitters series has more customization, more modes, and even a level editor.

Timesplitters was done by a lot of the same devs as Goldeneye and PD right? It's a shame what happened to Free Radical.

I believe mostly Goldeneye devs, and not so much the Perfect Dark team.

Perfect Dark predates TS, and still had way more customization (apart from TS's level editor) and much more interesting weaponry. Even the bots can be customized to have specific personalities, something almost no other shooter has done since. I love TimeSplitters, no other console shooter was so fast-paced and chaotic. But Goldeneye and Perfect Dark when unparalleled for their time, as far as console shooters go. Though I could see how someone could prefer TimeSplitters.
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JScriv posted...

Even the bots can be customized to have specific personalities, something almost no other shooter has done since.

Unreal Tournament did this IIRC. Or if not that, something similar.

JScriv posted...

But Goldeneye and Perfect Dark when unparalleled for their time, as far as console shooters go.

Not really. PD was creative and they were both unique, but they came out during a golden age of FPS games, and were hardly unparalleled.

Honestly never played it. One of my regrets.
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