Current Events > NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case

(+) Yeah! (+)

An Amazon Echo device could play a role in a double-homicide case in Farmington.

A judge has ordered Amazon to turn over recordings that might have been captured by an Echo smart speaker in the Farmington house where two women were stabbed to death in January 2017.

Timothy Verrill of Dover is charged with first-degree murder in the stabbing deaths of Jenna Pellegrini, 32, and Christine Sullivan, 48. He has pleaded not guilty.

Prosecutors said they believe the Echo device, which listens for Alexa voice commands, might have recorded audio of Sullivan's death, as well as anything that happened before or after it.

State police have the speaker, and the judge agreed to let them access the recordings and ordered Amazon to turn over any recordings on its servers.

Experts said the case reveals some of the implications of having such devices in people's homes.

"I think most people probably don't even realize that Alexa is taking account of what's going on in your house, in addition to responding to your demands and commands," said Albert Scherr, a professor at the University of New Hampshire School of Law.

Amazon officials said the company won't release any information until a valid legal demand has been properly served.

Source/more reading
https://www.wmur.com/article/nh-judge-orders-amazon-to-give-echo-recordings-in-double-homicide-case/24893714

While it may be useful in solving cases, do you think Amazon should still be storing queries that they have the ability to decrypt on their servers? Should they be taking an approach like Apple does with Siri by keeping Siri data on the device and not have the encryption keys?
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I've never considered getting an echo, now I know for sure I'm never touching it.
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Sad_Face posted...

I've never considered getting an echo, now I know for sure I'm never touching it.

Maybe you shouldn't murder people.
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This doesn't say it logs everything that goes on.
It just logs the operations it performs.
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I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.
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I have an echo, its actually cool. Plays whatever genre music you want, I ask it the weather all the time, I can ask when the next sports games are. I have the outlets too so I can turn off this large lamp in the corner of my livingroom that can be annoying to turn off/on every time.
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LordRazziel posted...

This doesn't say it logs everything that goes on.
It just logs the operations it performs.

Yeah but the echo has already proven itself unreliable in regard to this.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/24/family-claims-their-echo-sent-a-private-conversation-to-a-random-contact/

A Portland family tells KIRO news that their Echo recorded and then sent a private conversation to someone on its list of contacts without telling them. Amazon called it an extremely rare occurrence. (And provided a more detailed explanation, below.)

Portlander Danielle said that she got a call from one of her husbands employees one day telling her to unplug your Alexa devices right now, and suggesting shed been hacked. He said that he had received recordings of the couple talking about hardwood floors, which Danielle confirmed.

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l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

Have a mobile phone?
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LordRazziel posted...

l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

Have a mobile phone?

Yeah, but it's not a smart phone. Don't need one.
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LordRazziel posted...

l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

Have a mobile phone?

Not all voice assistants are built equally, again Apple does a much better job at storing data on the phone and does not keep encryption keys to access Siri data - so even if ordered by a court to supply the data they would not be able to.

That said any microphone connected to the internet is potentially able to be exploited, obviously.
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Kombucha posted...

LordRazziel posted...

l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

Have a mobile phone?

Not all voice assistants are built equally, again Apple does a much better job at storing data on the phone and does not keep encryption keys to access Siri data - so even if ordered by a court to supply the data they would not be able to.

That said any microphone connected to the internet is potentially able to be exploited, obviously.

The article doesn't say it's recording everything that's going on. It says she may have used it in a way that was logged and could shed some light.
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LordRazziel posted...

Kombucha posted...

LordRazziel posted...

l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

Have a mobile phone?

Not all voice assistants are built equally, again Apple does a much better job at storing data on the phone and does not keep encryption keys to access Siri data - so even if ordered by a court to supply the data they would not be able to.

That said any microphone connected to the internet is potentially able to be exploited, obviously.

The article doesn't say it's recording everything that's going on. It says she may have used it in a way that was logged and could shed some light.

Yeah I know, it may be the case that the data they have is only what they should have (and this is most likely the case)- but what I have shown above is an example of the same device recording and storing everything outside of the scope of a regular query as well.

So I guess Alexa owners just have to trust that Amazon is handling everything properly.
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Disgusting. Complete violation of privacy.

Time to see if Amazon has a big of a spine as Apple.
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Creepy
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

Disgusting. Complete violation of privacy.

Time to see if Amazon has a big of a spine as Apple.

I'm pretty sure Amazon is going to say "it doesn't do anything until you say Alexa and if you give it a command that it doesn't have a skill for, like AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH it discards the request without logging."
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Amazon should appeal the ruling and it should get overturned.
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If they had a private security firm that had offsite backups of video surveillance, would you all be taking the same position?

It's odd to be that you don't think they should be able to subpoena data in a fucking murder case.

If you don't want them recording, don't get one, but don't try to act like records are so privileged a court order can't grant access.
Jesus fucking Christ.
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Who could have predicted it
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You guys remember that pharmacist a while back that executed the thief? Shot him, then walked over and shot him again in the head.

Your position here is essentially, the police shouldn't be able to take the security footage of the event.
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Law & Order Echo
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

You guys remember that pharmacist a while back that executed the thief? Shot him, then walked over and shot him again in the head.

Your position here is essentially, the police shouldn't be able to take the security footage of the event.

Wrong

My position is that the Alexa should not be a surveillance device in the first place as it is not clearly labeled as such.

If it is one though, it may as well be up to consumers to educate themselves about what they are actually buying.
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Kombucha posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

You guys remember that pharmacist a while back that executed the thief? Shot him, then walked over and shot him again in the head.

Your position here is essentially, the police shouldn't be able to take the security footage of the event.

Wrong

My position is that the Alexa should not be a surveillance device in the first place as it is not clearly labeled as such.

If it is one though, it may as well be up to consumers to educate themselves about what they are actually buying.

Take it up with Amazon, not the NH state government.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Kombucha posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

You guys remember that pharmacist a while back that executed the thief? Shot him, then walked over and shot him again in the head.

Your position here is essentially, the police shouldn't be able to take the security footage of the event.

Wrong

My position is that the Alexa should not be a surveillance device in the first place as it is not clearly labeled as such.

If it is one though, it may as well be up to consumers to educate themselves about what they are actually buying.

Take it up with Amazon, not the NH state government.

I have already indicated that my issue is with how Amazon stores the data in not one, but two previous posts.
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Alexa, record my murder!
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They don't store it for you to use later, and as far as I know, they don't use it for anything, so it's not an intended surveillance device. Also, I would be shocked if it wasn't disclosed in the documentation on it.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

They don't store it for you to use later, and as far as I know, they don't use it for anything, so it's not an intended surveillance device. Also, I would be shocked if it wasn't disclosed in the documentation on it.

Intention is irrelevant. Due to their data policy- the reality of the law turns it into one, I don't think that is in question.

They definitely use queries for improving machine learning.
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divot1338 posted...

Alexa, record my murder!

lmao
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I definitely think that Amazon should be compliant with the request for recordings (given adequate and reasonable legal necessity, present in this case).
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Why would it record what you say?

QtPatootie462 posted...

Why would it record what you say?

Apple stores data on the phone to train Siri and complete requests. What little information is sent to Apple is not actually readable by Apple due to the way they treat data.

Some companies (Amazon, Google) store the data on their own servers entirely in order to train their voice assistants and complete requests. While the data is encrypted in storage they are able to unencrypt if compelled.
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It doesn't matter if in this specific case, the short-term morally right decision would be for Amazon to give the recordings.

The precedent this sets would essentially make these things voluntary government surveillance tools. It is much better for society (and a morally right decision in the long-term as well) for Amazon NOT to give the recordings.

lol if you even have one of these and LMAO if this goes through and you still have one.
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l Dudeboy l posted...

I have to say it's a genius move to convince people to bug their own homes.

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If Amazon fights it, it will most likely get overturned. Seeing as they don't know if there even is any evidence to be found, it'll likely be considered a fishing expedition and get tossed.
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