Poll of the Day > Bernie Sanders unveils Green New Deal plan

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/climate/bernie-sanders-climate-change.html

How do you feel
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Sounds good, but I like this line

> There is no broadly agreed-upon figure of how much needs to be spent to decarbonize the United States economy, but one study estimated that as much as $4.5 trillion could be needed just to modernize the nations power grid.

It's like, yes... and? So modernize it. Infrastructure is the soundest and best investment you can get for your money, and America has among the worst infrastructure development in the 1st World
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I don't care. It's a stupid idea and the failed and foolish prior attempt torpedoed any hope I had for a green new deal. At best this is a patch-up salvage attempt. More likely it's just Bernie's variation on the same core concepts. Total garbage.
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Unbridled9 posted...

I don't care. It's a stupid idea and the failed and foolish prior attempt torpedoed any hope I had for a green new deal. At best this is a patch-up salvage attempt. More likely it's just Bernie's variation on the same core concepts. Total garbage.

Please elaborate what you find stupid about it?
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Its probably a more realistic dollar amount of what will be needed long term to make strides against climate change, but it will have zero chance of gaining traction, realistically. Ultimately, I think humanity is going to learn to adapt with the changing climate and the hardships/suffering that come with it rather than combat/fix it.
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I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.
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ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

Filling in a pot hole every year for $20 a year, prevents an average of $250 per year in insurance claims.

*numbers not to scale
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Ill take it over the conservative plan for climate change, which is to stick their fingers in their ears and do nothing while our environment is crumbling around us

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Reaching 100 percent renewable energy for electricity and transportation by no later than 2030 and complete decarbonization by 2050 at latest

This is what I want to hear. We can do this.

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ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

We need to move away from fossil fuels
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Jen0125 posted...

ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

We need to move away from fossil fuels

So, just take their money.

Because, fuck 'em.

I think this topic made me a libertarian, lol.
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I agree, fuck em

Hopefully in a few decades the fossil fuel industry will just be a term used in history books

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ninja_lootz posted...

Jen0125 posted...

ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

We need to move away from fossil fuels

So, just take their money.

Because, fuck 'em.

I think this topic made me a libertarian, lol.

Do you think taxation is theft?
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Mead posted...

Ill take it over the conservative plan for climate change, which is to stick their fingers in their ears and do nothing while our environment is crumbling around us

Hey now, that's absolutely not true and you know it.

The GOP are rolling back EPA regulations. They're fucking us all over and making things more difficult to attempt to fix moving forward. They're not "doing nothing". Give credit where it's due #MAGA
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Jen0125 posted...

ninja_lootz posted...

Jen0125 posted...

ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

We need to move away from fossil fuels

So, just take their money.

Because, fuck 'em.

I think this topic made me a libertarian, lol.

Do you think taxation is theft?

I didn't, but this sounds a lot like theft to me.
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ninja_lootz posted...

I didn't, but this sounds a lot like theft to me

Maybe they should stop destroying the environment for profit.
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Jen0125 posted...

Unbridled9 posted...

I don't care. It's a stupid idea and the failed and foolish prior attempt torpedoed any hope I had for a green new deal. At best this is a patch-up salvage attempt. More likely it's just Bernie's variation on the same core concepts. Total garbage.

Please elaborate what you find stupid about it?

Dude. He's calling for things like converting all our electrical and transportation needs to green energy by 2030. Even if our energy needs don't increase (insanely unlikely) the fact is that renewable energy simply isn't at the levels it needs to be at in order to achieve such a thing. Pretty much the only way it could happen is if they included 'nuclear' as a 'green' energy source. Even then you're looking at a massive amount of construction as well as decomissioning a ton of fossil fuel plants (losing those jobs) and replacing them with renewable and nuclear (which would likely need specialized training at best). Nevermind the challenge of converting trains, planes, ships, and automobiles to green energy across the entire freaking nation.

Of course this is ignoring that he's flat-out calling to remove things like nuclear plants, trash incinerators, and what-not.

So, yea, it's pretty stupid. He may as well be promising to invade Oz to enslave the Lolipop Guild to make them work the power plants for us for how feasible this all is. That's just going off of this times article. The government takes years just to pass simple contracts and would likely end up putzing around for years before finally getting down to building things and that's generously assuming it is even viable to do such an overhaul.
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Mead posted...

Ill take it over the conservative plan for climate change, which is to stick their fingers in their ears and do nothing while our environment is crumbling around us

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So because something is challenging we shouldn't do it? You sound lazy and short sighted.
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Saving the planet is going to ruin the lives of thousands of people who profit off its death.

Is this really how the tolerant left does things?

I would have voted dem but this made me vote for orange man.
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Jen0125 posted...

So because something is challenging we shouldn't do it? You sound lazy and short sighted.

I didn't say that. I said that the plan he was giving was stupid. If we're on a boat sinking into shark-infested water and someone suggests you use the parts from the sinking ship to build a gundam to punch the sharks, you don't go along with it because it's the only plan, you say 'no, let's find the life rafts and rescue flares or something else'.

The reality is that this sort of situation is insanely difficult to resolve. Largely because there's a ton of factors involved. Like, for example, a great way to reduce pollution would be to find a way to get rid of cigarette butts. I can assure you that they make up a massive chunk of the litter you'll spot and getting rid of them would do a lot for the environment.
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Cigarette butts have like nothing to do with global warming
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Do you really think cigarette butt litter is a main contributer of global warming
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We can absolutely achieve those goals. We just have to actually decide to do it.

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All for it. LA's air quality is awful again.
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who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.
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Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

Ya gotta keep trying and have faith. The entire world can't just give up an die.
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ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

I mean, they are the ones ultimately responsible for most of the problem, so...

Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

Because the approach to date of the government staying relatively hands-off and letting corporations dictate their own environmental standards has worked so well and definitely hasn't resulted in the creation of the entire problem as said corporations choose to line their own pockets at the expense of the planet. I'll take incompetence over malicious self-interest.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

Ya gotta keep trying and have faith. The entire world can't just give up an die.

just because i assume the government would fuck it up and handle things in the most ineffective and inefficient way possible doesnt mean im "giving up".

it just means i trust the private sector to do it better.
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Yeah we should obviously just sit back and patiently wait for large corporations and billionaires decide they have enough money and theyd now like to voluntarily restrict their profits and spend a ton of money on stuff that benefits everyone else, which is common behavior of the very rich and powerful

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adjl posted...

ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

I mean, they are the ones ultimately responsible for most of the problem, so...

Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

Because the approach to date of the government staying relatively hands-off and letting corporations dictate their own environmental standards has worked so well and definitely hasn't resulted in the creation of the entire problem as said corporations choose to line their own pockets at the expense of the planet. I'll take incompetence over malicious self-interest.

oh yeah, and it for sure isnt contributing the only actual working solutions right now either, you pedantic dinkus. no surprise youd take incompetence. its sort of your signature move. i imagine youd go for that before just about anything.

dont bother responding. im not gonna read the 3 page wikipedia article that you plan to copy and paste here. you really arent worth engaging even as much as i already did in this post.
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Noop_Noop posted...

FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

Ya gotta keep trying and have faith. The entire world can't just give up an die.

just because i assume the government would fuck it up and handle things in the most ineffective and inefficient way possible doesnt mean im "giving up".

it just means i trust the private sector to do it better.

I'mma take incompetence over greed an self-interest. The private sectors got enough money.
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Mead posted...

Yeah we should obviously just sit back and patiently wait for large corporations and billionaires decide they have enough money and theyd now like to voluntarily restrict their profits and spend a ton of money on stuff that benefits everyone else, which is common behavior of the very rich and powerful

be real mead. regardless of what you say you believe youre just going to "sit back" regardless.

what you really should do is keep your rotund backside on the couch all day and constantly consume products made by the mega corporations you pretend to hate while simultaneously contributing nothing meaningful to society.

when was the last time you personally did something that didnt directly benefit yourself? and no, handing your girlfriend an empty mountain dew bottle so she can throw it in the recycle bin for you doesnt count.

get rekt homie
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ninja_lootz posted...

I like how it's going to "pay for itself" by stealing trillions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry.

They're destroying the environment, they don't love you, time to move on.

They're going to go down kicking and screaming, so it won't be easy. They're going to throw everything they've got at us. It makes me wonder if we could make a deal with them by putting these rich people in charge of the new deal. That would give them less incentive to resist.

The idea is that lower class people will have their jobs replaced with clean energy jobs as well.

Noop_Noop posted...

who in this topic can name me one thing that the government does well other than fuck up?

and that is why i do not want to entrust the public sector with the monumental task of fixing the environment.

There is literally no other choice. Thing about Anarchism, teamwork isn't really its strong suit.

Even private solar panels aren't really capable of replacing the grid in people's homes without some kind of government subsidizing to make them worth people's time. I think some European countries did this and dropped it due to the cost.

I also hope they give nuclear a fair shot. It really is the safest way to generate electricity that we know of, it's never given a fair shot by any politicians. Maybe that reason is that it doesn't employ as many people, but I don't actually know.
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Noop_Noop posted...

Mead posted...

Yeah we should obviously just sit back and patiently wait for large corporations and billionaires decide they have enough money and theyd now like to voluntarily restrict their profits and spend a ton of money on stuff that benefits everyone else, which is common behavior of the very rich and powerful

be real mead. regardless of what you say you believe youre just going to "sit back" regardless.

what you really should do is keep your rotund backside on the couch all day and constantly consume products made by the mega corporations you pretend to hate while simultaneously contributing nothing meaningful to society.

when was the last time you personally did something that didnt directly benefit yourself? and no, handing your girlfriend an empty mountain dew bottle so she can throw it in the recycle bin for you doesnt count.

get rekt homie

You get so mad and still dont even try to argue against him
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Blighboy posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

Mead posted...

Yeah we should obviously just sit back and patiently wait for large corporations and billionaires decide they have enough money and theyd now like to voluntarily restrict their profits and spend a ton of money on stuff that benefits everyone else, which is common behavior of the very rich and powerful

be real mead. regardless of what you say you believe youre just going to "sit back" regardless.

what you really should do is keep your rotund backside on the couch all day and constantly consume products made by the mega corporations you pretend to hate while simultaneously contributing nothing meaningful to society.

when was the last time you personally did something that didnt directly benefit yourself? and no, handing your girlfriend an empty mountain dew bottle so she can throw it in the recycle bin for you doesnt count.

get rekt homie

You get so mad and still dont even try to argue against him

His opinion is literally as worthless as he is. Why waste time arguing with a lump when you can just blast it?

Edit: awww, I just got an NWD to let me know I hurt his feelings. :( sorry buddy.
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Tragically lump persecution is alive and well even in this day and age

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Republican, Democrat, it doesn't matter, whoever is president needs to work on building our infrastructure and upgrading public transportation big time. IT's WAAAAY past time for that, and should have been being worked on constantly over my entire lifetime (instead of basically not changing at all in 50 years).

Yes, moving towards electrical cars etc, for those that need to drive them will help as well, but there should be high speed rails leading to most major cities in this country already, instead in some places it's actually harder to get from town to town with public transportation now, then it was in the past.

Meanwhile the freeway system is getting so crowded it's often faster to walk lol, even just getting around town..what should take 5 minutes to drive, takes 15-20.

Also this would open up a ton of jobs. In addition I suggest building a ton of government owned/living facilities, that are created with solar power already included. Buy up land currently not near anything, so cheap, then build the public transportation nearby, so people can live their cheap. This by itself will help reduce rent prices elsewhere as cheaper (more realistic) housing is available).

A 1 bedroom apartment should not be more then $600, and a studio not more then $400, unless it's in a great spot, or has more space/extra value etc). Your looking at almost double that in many areas now.

Fix the tax loopholes, it's not unreasonable to expect anyone making over 100k a year to pay around 33-40% in taxes (instead of less then 10% quite often right now...and for corporations often 0% because the "reinvest").

No more reinvesting loopholes, corporations should be taxes based on gross profit. The more you make, the more you should pay in taxes, never over 40% but.....you should not be able to make 580k in a year and only pay $5000 in taxes ever.

If we ever get the taxes fixed we will have a serious surplus each year, we could work on the infrastructure, forgive student loans (boosting the economy greatly in the process), and start paying off the debt to China instead of just paying the interest and owing more each year.

This country has stuck it's head in the sand for quite awhile, grabbing as much profit (primarily for a very small percentage of Americans) while ignoring the needs of the future generations.

They are already going to have to pay heavily for that, and honestly it may already be too late, but at least we should TRY to provide some kind of future for them.
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Noop_Noop posted...

oh yeah, and it for sure isnt contributing the only actual working solutions right now either,

The only solution that will work is to stop the people ****ing up the environment from doing so. Sure, that's going to have to be paired with greener innovations that take the place of the current harmful ones, and that's going to come from the private sector, but without legal enforcement (which I certainly hope you aren't suggesting be left to independent mercenary companies and not the government), any efforts to clean up the world aren't going to get very far.
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it's ok guys, eventually the wealth will trickle down and we'll all benefit from it. we just have to trust the good faith of billionaires
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TheWitchMorgana posted...

it's ok guys, eventually the wealth will trickle down and we'll all benefit from it. we just have to trust the good faith of billionaires

Regan reincarnated!! *hehe*
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2030 seems too soon. 2050 even seems kinda fast. We may be able to reach those goals. But I think the estimated times are a little off. I think itll take longer...
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LinkPizza posted...

2030 seems too soon. 2050 even seems kinda fast. We may be able to reach those goals. But I think the estimated times are a little off. I think itll take longer...

Itll for sure take longer if its politics as usual. But we simply dont have the time for that. Historically our country has been able to do very impressive things in short periods of time when we set out to do so. The technology is here now, many countries are much further along than we are in regards to updating their infrastructure and depending on renewables. Its time for us to not only catch up but also set an example.

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Mead posted...

Historically our country has been able to do very impressive things in short periods of time when we set out to do so.

When half the country refuses to believe that climate change has anything to do with human activity, though, that whole "set out to do so" thing might be a bit ambitious.
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adjl posted...

When half the country refuses to believe that climate change has anything to do with human activity, though, that whole "set out to do so" thing might be a bit ambitious.

They arent half the country though. Theyre the vocal minority and Trump is their desperate extinction bloom before fading into obscurity.

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