Board 8 > King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) R1D2: Star vs Prion (Mid)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Welcome to the King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) Simulated Character Battle Tournament!

The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle.

To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish.

TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS:

Star Butterfly (Star vs the Forces of Evil)
Known as "Star the Underestimated", has proficiency primarily in transformation magic and respectable melee combat skilsl


vs

Prion (Degenerative Neurological Disorders)
A misfolded protein that reproduces and builds up in the body, eventually resulting in death. All prion diseases are currently incurable.

@Pirateking2000 @MariaTaylor

FIGHT

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what is happening here

why was I tagged

did I nominate a prion for a MPFC contest like 10 years ago or something

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hmm

so if you have a prion disease and you transform, do you still have it? it's an abnormal accumulation of protein in the brain, but when you transform, you have a different brain...right?

I know in some cases, shapeshifting magic can be used to heal injuries. dunno if it works that way for Star in particular.
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Star makes up some spell rhyme to cure it.

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I think prion will eventually lose to like reed richards or something, but this is not the battle that prion is going to lose.

Drakeryn posted...

so if you have a prion disease and you transform, do you still have it? it's an abnormal accumulation of protein in the brain, but when you transform, you have a different brain...right?

I know in some cases, shapeshifting magic can be used to heal injuries. dunno if it works that way for Star in particular.

I'll try to keep my 'argument' brief, but this post basically just gives me a chance to explain while also responding. 2 for 1 special.

I guess the way I picture it, even in the most favorable interpretation, is that if star transforms their brain from Brain A to Brain B which is occupying the same space it doesn't really solve their situation. transforming your brian doesn't cause prion to be deleted. but, at the same time, prion is still inside of the new brain, continues to replicate, and... game over.

so yeah I'll vote for Prion

I also don't think cartoon characters are well equipped to deal with realistic, dark issues like incurable neurological disorders.

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like the prion starts outside her body and has no higher brain function and no way to infect star unless she randomly starts eating the dirt the prions are on

Star Butterfly

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imagine if there is a bomb inside of a car that will definitely go off in ten minutes. you have the ability to take the car apart by splitting it into pieces and then build a new car, with different pieces, in the exact same place. the new car would still be destroyed when the bomb goes off.


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PrinceKaro posted...

like the prion starts outside her body and has no higher brain function and no way to infect star unless she randomly starts eating the dirt the prions are on

This.

Star
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MariaTaylor posted...

but, at the same time, prion is still inside of the new brain, continues to replicate, and... game over.

yeah, I'm leaning toward this interp

it's like a bullet. if you get shot, and the bullet is embedded in the wound, and you transform, it would heal all the muscle damage but the bullet would still be lodged inside. similarly, a cure spell would heal damage but not remove the bullet.

but this is my "generic" interpretation of transformation/healing, I don't know if Star has anything more specific in terms of showings

PrinceKaro posted...

like the prion starts outside her body and has no higher brain function and no way to infect star unless she randomly starts eating the dirt the prions are on

this is also interesting because Star is psychically compelled to find and fight her opponent but will never be able to find them and it's gonna drive her crazy
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PrinceKaro posted...

like the prion starts outside her body and has no higher brain function and no way to infect star unless she randomly starts eating the dirt the prions are on

I think this argument is better, although it still doesn't really account for how star would actually get rid of prion either

but... there's absolutely no way that I nominated prion in good faith anyway, and I'm not super invested in the outcome of whatever this is. so yeah, have fun.


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also if Star and the prion never meet, that's not a victory for Star, it's a draw
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Personally, I think the only way to interpret this is that the prion is just chilling in some frozen beef or something. They're present in the flesh of infected animals, and wouldn't just be lying on the ground. Star isn't leaving without destroying the prion, and (I probably should've specified this in the rules) she won't know that it's her enemy until she sees it... which she won't because it's just protein. I'd imagine it could stay viable and not denature over long timescales.

So the first question is if she'd think to just destroy everything blindly trying to defeat the enemy, or if she'd just wander around, searching, until she gets hungry and ends up eating it for dinner. I don't know her personality well, but I don't think she'd go for wanton destruction

Second question is if she could cure herself or not. Again, I don't know how the show works. If she transforms while injured, is the injury cured? I don't think it would be given the usual logic, so I doubt transformation could save her if this is the case unless she knows the specific problem, which again seems unlikely.

So I guess I'm going prion

And Maria, you nominated stuff for this like two years ago. Your nominations were... something

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Prions aren't even alive, though. How is it a draw if Star is alive and her opponent isn't?
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Xeybozn posted...

Prions aren't even alive, though. How is it a draw if Star is alive and her opponent isn't?

they're both in the same existent state they started out in. draw.

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Drakeryn posted...

this is also interesting because Star is psychically compelled to find and fight her opponent but will never be able to find them and it's gonna drive her crazy

she would be inevitably drawn to where the prions are, and even if she can't locate them the surrounding area is likely to be set on fire (by accident or on purpose) and eventually the prions will be destroyed.
star has a wide variety of magic abilities to draw from, the prions are just 'i gotta just sit here and hope someone sprinkles me in my opoonent's food'

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NFUN posted...

And Maria, you nominated stuff for this like two years ago. Your nominations were... something

what were my other ones? now I'm curious

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MariaTaylor posted...

what were my other ones? now I'm curious

Bebop and Rocksteady... Hologram 2pac....................Dorito Man (who is in Broken tier)

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Star's Fandom Wiki page is so long, sheesh. What I've learned is she can be a goof though in later episodes she takes things more seriously. She has a Magic Wand that she at some point doesn't use. She can also use wandless magic. She does not strike me as the type to wantonly set a supermarket on fire that may have a package of prion-infested beef.

If the prion legit can't interact with anything until Star touches it (or until something falls on it or something), and Star is compelled to seek it out, would she recognize it (or whatever it's inhabiting) as her opponent? And if so, would she examine it more carefully/talk to it, or would she blow it up immediately?

Star is very destructive (particularly S1 Star though in the endgame she genocides all magic beings so...). I'd think it would be in character for her to just go in guns blazing with magic blasts which could just destroy it outright even by accident. Even if she was infected her magic can be pretty busted at times. She turned her teacher into a troll complete with the benefits they have and fixed a magical mutation after roughly a day of just making up magic spells until something worked. Though yeah the former situation of her just nuking shit out of the gate and destroying it by accident before she cools off is more likely.

If it is just a giant version of itself she just destroys it regularly as others said

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rwlh posted...

Star's Fandom Wiki page is so long, sheesh. What I've learned is she can be a goof though in later episodes she takes things more seriously. She has a Magic Wand that she at some point doesn't use. She can also use wandless magic. She does not strike me as the type to wantonly set a supermarket on fire that may have a package of prion-infested beef.

If the prion legit can't interact with anything until Star touches it (or until something falls on it or something), and Star is compelled to seek it out, would she recognize it (or whatever it's inhabiting) as her opponent? And if so, would she examine it more carefully/talk to it, or would she blow it up immediately?

She wouldn't recognize it at all as an enemy unless she actually saw it, which would require her isolating it and using a microscope. If she's very self-aware, however, I could buy an argument that she'd notice that she was being subtly compelled to go to a certain place, and use that as a hint that her enemy is there. I wouldn't expect a fifteen year old to know themselves that well.

she'd also need to eat the food in order to get infected

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Pirateking2000 posted...

She [...] fixed a magical mutation after roughly a day of just making up magic spells until it worked

this sounds relevant

exactly what was the mutation and what did she do?
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Drakeryn posted...

this sounds relevant

exactly what was the mutation and what did she do?

From what I recall her friend's arm was magically mutated into a sentient evil monster tentacle that was corrupting him / growing and there was no known way of fixing it. She spent the next day or so just making up spells until she eventually created one that did the job and fixed him.

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Okay so, looking at Star's wiki: https://starvstheforcesofevil.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Butterfly
She's described as friendly ("Strangers, in her eyes, are just friends she has not met yet") and apparently hates overuse/misuse of magic. So I don't think she's the type to just go around nuking random city blocks. She seems like she'd determinedly search for her opponent, willing to search for as long as it took...and probably eat some random pack of ground beef along the way.

Based on what Pirateking said, I'm inclined to believe that peak condition Star can theoretically heal prion diseases (a growing/corrupting mutation with no known cure seems as similar as you're going to get in a cartoon). The complicating factor here is that she would have the prion disease, which progressively impairs her mental function, and she'd have to realize it and come up with a solution while she still has the mental faculties to do so.

In this case, where she's effectively in isolation, I think she won't notice until it's too late. In the real world she'd have friends to point out she's been acting differently, or she'd realize her school performance is going downhill (does she go to school?) or she can no longer do her normal activities properly. Here, it's like the proverbial frog in a pot. I mean, she would eventually realize something is seriously wrong, but would she be able to perform complex magic on her own brain by then? Probably not.

the prion
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Star could conjure her own food though. Why would she just eat the infected meat? Also are others involved in this theoretical scenario? She could just have another magic user of the royal family do the work for her if it came to that particular case.

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Pirateking2000 posted...

Star could conjure her own food though. Why would she just eat the infected meat?

Based on the wiki, she seems averse to using magic when she doesn't need to (it's described as a significant point in her character development). So I feel like she wouldn't waste magic on conjuring food when there's a perfectly good supermarket down the block.

It's possible I'm wrong - you're the one who knows the character, does she just conjure food casually when she has other options?
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I think the "aversion to magic" thing is mainly referring to the endgame where she got fed up with magic ruining everything in her life due to many events that occur and decides to straight up destroy the realm of magic itself and genocides all magical beings / cuts off magic from the universe. Alternatively it could be talking about her developed empathy for the monsterfolk of her realm and not just nuking them anymore.

Even during the endgame she is still pretty destructive and used magic often for different stuff. I think she conjures corn at some point. Overall, I would think she would come out guns blazing busting down walls and such which she still did during her shenanigans even at that point. It could also be referring to her not doing super crazy shit like stopping time for the universe or stuff of that caliber (some members of the royal family got up to some crazy shit magic wise). I guess it depends on the rules if we are going with them at their most powerful or not. I just tend to lean to her being more on the destructive side in general since that is how she goes about most combat engagements unless they are delicate involving people she knows.

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Pirateking2000 posted...

Star could conjure her own food though. Why would she just eat the infected meat? Also are others involved in this theoretical scenario? She could just have another magic user of the royal family do the work for her if it came to that particular case.

Nobody else is here. She's gonna end up in the area of the food at some point. Just comes down to whether she'd end up eating it first or happening to destroy it. She knows there's an enemy *somewhere*, but would she burn down buildings to find it?

I think the real question is this:

How does Star like her meat?

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NFUN posted...

Nobody else is here. She's gonna end up in the area of the food at some point. Just comes down to whether she'd end up eating it first or happening to destroy it. She knows there's an enemy *somewhere*, but would she burn down buildings to find it?

I think the real question is this:

How does Star like her meat?

Assuming she was aware nobody else was in danger and there is no real damage to anyone (like this is just a simulated field where she could go nuts)? Yeah she has been known for large scale damage. Also again you are talking about someone who would destroy an entire dimension over what was ultimately a temper tantrum (a self admitted one at that).

As for the meat, well she is a royal. I don't think she'd just eat some random bad meat when she has other options available. I believe the main food of her kingdom was corn.

Another thing worth mentioning thinking about it is that her dad is a powerful warrior survivalist who she spent a lot of time with along with the royal guard. Their home realm is filled with shit loads of dangerous flora and fauna so I would think she'd be smart enough to avoid just eating random meat lying around anyway.

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Pirateking2000 posted...

As for the meat, well she is a royal. I don't think she'd just eat some random bad meat when she has other options available. I believe the main food of her kingdom was corn.

That wasn't the question

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NFUN posted...

That wasn't the question

Like specifically? Can't really give a canonical answer on that or anything. Given where she lived and how dangerous it is, I would assume they'd cook their meat whatever the best way to minimize potential infections and that would be her default.

Really the match requires a lot of reaching and Star has potential answers to most scenarios anyway ranging from it just being a giant version of it that she obliterates, to being able to avoid it / accidentally destroying it via mass destruction or cooking it, to scanning for it with magic and destroying it, to outright fixing it with magic etc.

It also requires putting them in a particular battleground for such scenarios could even play out feasibly. Was there anything in the rules for that? Like for all we know they could just be in a tech dome with nothing else in it and Star is just face to face with a random piece of meat. Is there prep time? Do they have nothing to work with for their opponent? Like if it is just "find this specific bacteria in this whole place" it is kind of silly and just comes down to "okay just nuke everything in sight until the victory buzzer sounds" or use a spell to keep scanning until she finds it then blows it up.

Also here is an easy way she can win real fast after looking over some of her more used spells:

All Seeing Eye

"I summon the all seeing eye, to tear a hole into the sky. Reveal to me that which is hidden, unveil to me what is forbidden."

Star seeks her target. A piece of meat is shown and its location. She finds it and blasts it. Match over.

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Ah sorry, saw the terrain descriptor in opening post so disregard that. Still, the All Seeing Eye spell basically renders this match moot anyway.

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I thought this was going to be a prion vs a literal star in outer space

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Star

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oh yeah, All Seeing Eye is a gamechanger

unvote

question though: the wiki mentions she spent months searching for her mother. why didn't she just cast All Seeing Eye?
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Drakeryn posted...

oh yeah, All Seeing Eye is a gamechanger

unvote

question though: the wiki mentions she spent months searching for her mother. why didn't she just cast All Seeing Eye?

I don't think it was ever specifically explained? She tried to use it to find her but it didn't work even though every other time it was used it worked to great effect (even across dimensions). I believe she chalked it up to "something" happening to her mom when they were in the magic dimension (the realm of pure magic where she lost her) which made her untrackable through magical means.

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Star
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I was leaning Prion earlier, but yeah, turns out Star has an ideal counter to a difficult entity to counter.

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I am convinced by the arguments that:

• Star is trigger happy and would potentially just destroy the general area she thinks her opponent might be in
• On top of that, All-Seeing Eye would enable her to specifically locate the prion
• On top of that, the prion doesn't really have an active way to fight her, and its victory condition seems contingent on very specific circumstances that, given the above, aren't likely to happen.

Star.