Current Events > Could you forgive a Nazi?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Situation...

He was a soldier in the German Army during WW1.
He stayed as a soldier up to and including during WW2.
Due to being a soldier prior to WW2 he was forced to be an SS soldier.
He had partaken in atrocities under duress(threat of him and his family being killed)
After seeing and partaking in these atrocities he decided to flee with his family(wife and young children)
They claimed refugee status to escape the war.

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Probably not

What time period does this take place in?

Current day?

Did he spend the last 75 years without committing any other serious offenses?

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Due to being a soldier prior to WW2 he was forced to be an SS soldier.
He had partaken in atrocities under duress(threat of him and his family being killed)

is this something that really happened?

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g0ldie posted...

is this something that really happened?

Apparently. My wife and I were talking about it. My wife's grandma came over from Germany as a 6 year old and her dad was forced into the SS because he was a soldier during WW1.

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I definitely could in the scenario you presented, TC
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In this specific scenario, yes I could.

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There was English WW2 veteran on the news recently and he met up with an ex nazi, they got along just fine

Internet kids born in the 90s however "No I cOuLd NeVeR fOrGiVe HiM"

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Flauros posted...

What time period does this take place in?

Current day?

Did he spend the last 75 years without committing any other serious offenses?

It would be current day and they fled Germany because they weren't about what the Nazis were doing. They are only technically a Nazi by association because of their history in the German army.

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why would he deserve forgiveness? what indication is there that he changed his ways and repented?

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SamWincester posted...

I definitely could in the scenario you presented, TC

Mareen posted...

In this specific scenario, yes I could.

Nice to hear. I made the topic because I just wanted to see if people could recognize nuance and assess the scenario presented.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

It would be current day

so... he'd be like 120+

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I think a person in that scenario is deserving of refugee status and I would be okay with them not being tried after the fact.

I would need to know the specifics of the atrocities they participated in to actually decide whether or not I thought they deserved to be forgiven.


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IfGodCouldDie posted...

It would be current day and they fled Germany because they weren't about what the Nazis were doing. They are only technically a Nazi by association because of their history in the German army.

So he participated but felt it was wrong and fled before the war was lost?

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BlockAddition posted...

There was English WW2 veteran on the news recently and he met up with an ex nazi, they got along just fine

Internet kids born in the 90s however "No I cOuLd NeVeR fOrGiVe HiM"

I certainly hope that people born in the 90s are less sympathetic towards nazis than the british army

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averagejoel posted...

why would he deserve forgiveness? what indication is there that he changed his ways and repented?

He fled Germany once he knew it was safe for him and his family because he did not support what the Nazis did. If that doesn't show you he was at the very least ashamed of what he took apart of, I don't know what to tell you. He did his best to blend in as a Canadian because when he got here Germans were hated. His kids were picked on relentlessly because of thier heritage. I'm not sure what you would expect someone in his situation to do at that time.

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averagejoel posted...

so... he'd be like 120+

Well I meant looking back on a Nazi from our current perspective.

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Sounds like in this case they didn't support what they did and then fled. Main issue is the "they forced me to do it" which has never flied and afaik wasn't much of a thing as could easily get a role elsewhere than in one committing the worst horrors.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

He fled Germany once he knew it was safe for him and his family because he did not support what the Nazis did. If that doesn't show you he was at the very least ashamed of what he took apart of, I don't know what to tell you. He did his best to blend in as a Canadian because when he got here Germans were hated. His kids were picked on relentlessly because of thier heritage. I'm not sure what you would expect someone in his situation to do at that time.

in other words, the answer to the second question is "nothing"

so there's no reason to forgive him

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There are books about this, y'know.

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In that a scenario? No

"I was just following orders " is BS

There are scenarios that I can though

Like guys on the homefront who knew nothing but propaganda and committed no atrocities

or Hitler's secretary in the bunker who was aware how what the Nazis were doing but got brainwashed

Then was repeatedly raped by Soviets, then years later truly realized how horrible the Nazis truly were and repented , spent decades decrying them and praising the German Nazi resisters who mostly died

She was pretty much a victim despite being a Nazi
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No, I'd feed him to the Mossad.

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It is unlikely that he was forced to join the SS.

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PMarth2002 posted...

I think a person in that scenario is deserving of refugee status and I would be okay with them not being tried after the fact. That's mostly pragmatic, I don't think discouraging people from deserting the nazis would have been a good idea.

I would need to know the specifics of the atrocities they participated in to actually decide whether or not I thought they deserved to be forgiven.

I'm getting the history as I reply from my wife. He had killed children and "undesirables" to prove his aryan status. Had he not, he and his family would have very likely been executed. These are the reasons why he fled because he did not want to do that.
pikachupwnage posted...

So he participated but felt it was wrong and fled before the war was lost?

He fled mid war, 1942. I'm not sure how decided the war was at the point.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm getting the history as I reply from my wife. He had killed children and "undesirables" to prove his aryan status. Had he not, he and his family would have very likely been executed. These are the reasons why he fled because he did not want to do that.

yet he clearly didn't feel bad enough about it to repent in any meaningful way

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g0ldie posted...

is this something that really happened?

Yes, every fascist/communist dictatorship used the threat of violence to keep people in line. Alot, if not most participate under duress or to protect their families.

Whats he done wrong again?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

In that a scenario? No

"I was just following orders " is BS

There are scenarios that I can though

Like guys on the homefront who knew nothing but propaganda and committed no atrocities

or Hitler's secretary in the bunker who was aware how what the Nazis were doing but got brainwashed

Then was repeatedly raped by Soviets, then years later truly realized how horrible the Nazis truly were and repented , spent decades decrying them and praising the German Nazi resisters who mostly died

She was pretty much a victim despite being a Nazi

There is just following orders for a paycheck and perks, and just following orders due to the threat to yourself and your family.

averagejoel posted...

I certainly hope that people born in the 90s are less sympathetic towards nazis than the british army

Oh anyone that supports Nazis or a belief similar should kiss a curb.

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averagejoel posted...

yet he clearly didn't feel bad enough about it to repent in any meaningful way

IfGodCouldDie posted...

He did his best to blend in as a Canadian because when he got here Germans were hated. His kids were picked on relentlessly because of thier heritage. I'm not sure what you would expect someone in his situation to do at that time.

@averagejoel

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Sure.

People are people, not masses of good or evil. You've almost certainly done shit that's caused irreparable damage as well, just on a different scale so it's easier to pretend like it doesn't matter. The question is really about whether the person is now trying to breed as much positive influence on the world as they reasonably can. Like, are they now trying to be better.

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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Yes, every fascist/communist dictatorship used the threat of violence to keep people in line. Alot, if not most participate under duress or to protect their families.

I dunno, I've also heard that as far as Nazis go, being forced/coerced to commit atrocities was largely a myth, and it's difficult to find sources to support that it was true.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

@averagejoel

I saw that post. "blending in as a canadian" is not repenting

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averagejoel posted...

I saw that post. "blending in as a canadian" is not repenting

Ok but in the situation. You come over as a refugee and are instantly hated because of where you come from. No one is going to trust you. How do you believe someone could repent in that situation?

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g0ldie posted...

I dunno, I've also heard that as far as Nazis go, being forced/coerced to commit atrocities was largely a myth, and it's difficult to find sources to support that it was true.

It's not a myth

There are numerous occasions where officers ignored orders and no one cared. The Nazis were largely disorganized with a lot of infighting.

For a solider? Yeah they're pretty much fucked if they pipe up.

But for officers? For the SS? They never had to commit the atrocities they did, they enjoyed the genocide, the detailed reports of exactly what they did and why demonstrates that

Making people dig their own graves, making families execute each other, raping mothers in front of their children, then executing them.

These are not the acts of people being pressured into doing something they dont want to do

These are the acts of people who have a deep religious belief that they are superior, sadistically playing with those they think are sub human
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Ok but in the situation. You come over as a refugee and are instantly hated because of where you come from. No one is going to trust you. How do you believe someone could repent in that situation?

I'd say they're justified in hating him given that he was a literal nazi

and I don't particularly care how he could have repented; the fact is that he didn't. so there is no reason to forgive him

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I don't know why what I think would matter here, but some people forgave their direct oppressors. that's something.

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Wow, Averagejoel put me on ignore for that lol
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I wonder how many in this topic knows that the Nazi had Jews fighting for them.

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Foppe posted...

I wonder how many in this topic knows that the Nazi had Jews fighting for them.

Ehh not really

Jews in Finland fought the Soviets which at the time was an enemy of Nazis who were invading Russia. So they fought together

But Nazis purged Jews from their ranks with gusto . Even ones with Jewish ancestors were arrested and had to pass purity tests

And had the Nazis taken Russia those Jews would not be safe

I think you're thinking of WW1.
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No. He supported a genocide until he was safe, then jumped ship and did absolutely nothing to repent besides what, feel bad?

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It has to be on a case by case basis. At the end of the day, you gotta imagine under the rule of Hitler, you did what you had to survive under his regime. If you defy him you possibly could've been killed 1 way or another. Im confident that some of the nazis back then weren't really nazis.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm getting the history as I reply from my wife. He had killed children and "undesirables" to prove his aryan status. Had he not, he and his family would have very likely been executed. These are the reasons why he fled because he did not want to do that.

Yeah, fuck him then. "Feeling bad" about it doesn't change that he did it.

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Sure no problem. They are white and handsome.

Chinazi is worst.

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I can forgive anyone who shows genuine remorse. Doesnt mean Id pardon them at the same time.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

It's not a myth

There are numerous occasions where officers ignored orders and no one cared. The Nazis were largely disorganized with a lot of infighting.

For a solider? Yeah they're pretty much fucked if they pipe up.

But for officers? For the SS? They never had to commit the atrocities they did, they enjoyed the genocide, the detailed reports of exactly what they did and why demonstrates that

Making people dig their own graves, making families execute each other, raping mothers in front of their children, then executing them.

These are not the acts of people being pressured into doing something they dont want to do

These are the acts of people who have a deep religious belief that they are superior, sadistically playing with those they think are sub human

thanks.

I've seen stuff about soldiers not knowing about the atrocities that actually took place, but I haven't seen anything about them being forced to engage in them

mattfrank posted...

Sure no problem. They are white and handsome.

Chinazi is worst.

uh, what

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Blue_Dream87 posted...

No. He supported a genocide until he was safe, then jumped ship and did absolutely nothing to repent besides what, feel bad?

If given the option to kill some innocents or have yourself killed along with your loved ones are you sure you'd let your family die?

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g0ldie posted...

uh, what

Clearly just racist trolling.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

If given the option to kill some innocents or have yourself killed along with your loved ones are you sure you'd let your family die?

Yes
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No. SS was always voluntary. He is lying about being forced to be in the SS. He is Nazi scum and should be in chains.

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