Poll of the Day > Socialism works.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Change my mind.

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*lists a bunch of countries that aren't actually socialist like the USSR, China, and Cuba*

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The problem with socialism is that it punishes hard working individuals while rewarding those who are lazy. In a perfect world it would work. Everyone doing their part and contributing the greater good in a equal share. Reality though is that there are many individuals who will try to do as little as possible because they are going to get the same reward as everyone else. This passes the burden to hard working individuals who then have to pick up the extra slack but still receive the same reward as the person who did nothing. This causes resentment in the hard working individuals and then they start slacking off themselves because whats the point in working hard. This leads to an inevitable collapse of the system because it removes the incentive/reward for hard work.

Socialism works until you run out of other people's money.

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Socialism is when the workers own the company they work for as opposed to shareholders, and is generally the step before communism, when companies are public and owned by the government.

Bernie Sanders might have been a Socialist, but he never spoke a word about it, and it definitely wasn't part of his campaign. The only country in Europe that could be considered Socialist, is none of them, but in Germany they have worker owned coops, which is when workers are mandated to own 20% or so of the company they work for.

Americans are generally considered to not know what Socialism means, especially the Socialists. High quality and effective welfare isn't Socialism.

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Send me $1,000,000 or 3BTC

pionear posted...

Send me $1,000,000 or 3BTC

Send me and him $500,000 or 1.5BTC

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No, it doesn't. It just ends in the suffering of millions.
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MartianManchild posted...

The problem with socialism is that it punishes hard working individuals while rewarding those who are lazy.

so any hardworking people in Sweden or Denmark are just miserable all the time? Their country is beautiful, they work hard at a job they obviously love since theyd be ok doing anything else, and they and their fellow countrymen can get free healthcare whenever they need it

yeah I suppose that would be just intolerable

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Yellow posted...

High quality and effective welfare isn't Socialism.

it literally is a socialist policy, so is social security

and thats ok

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That's only if you're going by the Bernie Sanders definition of Socialism. If you are, then you're right. But it is a confusing message.

In the rest of the world Socialism means public-ish ownership of corporations.

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DANTE20XX posted...

Socialism works until you run out of other people's money.

Well Im sure capitalism wont collapse when all the money at the bottom finishes drying up

I bet just enough will trickle down to keep the masses from revolting

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@Yellow are you the Yellow who just got a PS5 on the discord a day or couple days ago?

Yellow posted...

That's only if you're going by the Bernie Sanders definition of Socialism. If you are, then you're right. But it is a confusing message.

In the rest of the world Socialism means public-ish ownership of corporations.

Im going by the literal definition of socialism, where everyone owns an equal part of the means of production

which is often called socialism

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Mead posted...

so any hardworking people in Sweden or Denmark are just miserable all the time? Their country is beautiful, they work hard at a job they obviously love since theyd be ok doing anything else, and they and their fellow countrymen can get free healthcare whenever they need it

yeah I suppose that would be just intolerable

Here. Educate yourself.
https://tinyurl.com/y54qqgnk
(Forbes article on Scandinavian socialism)

Capitalism isnt going to work with automation without turning into some capitalism-monarchy hybrid with multiple kings.

Maybe the world just wasnt ready for socialism yet. You cant just start out with capitalist world without failing, just like you cant start socialism successfully without a heavy capitalism period beforehand?

blu posted...

@Yellow are you the Yellow who just got a PS5 on the discord a day or couple days ago?

No

Mead posted...

Im going by the literal definition of socialism, where everyone owns an equal part of the means of production

which is often called socialism

Ok but know that's not what Denmark or Sweden is. Those are capitalist countries with strong welfare.

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MartianManchild posted...

(Forbes article on Scandinavian socialism)

This Forbes article (a darling establishment outlet) is describing how Sweden has moved away from Socialism. They are not education, they are propaganda.

Bernie (not actually a Socialist) is promoting their current system. This is where not being honest about your title will come to bite you in the ass.

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MartianManchild posted...

Here. Educate yourself.
https://tinyurl.com/y54qqgnk
(Forbes article on Scandinavian socialism)

whoa forbes doesnt like socialism

wonder what an unbiased group like that would have against a system like that

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Yellow posted...

Ok but know that's not what Denmark or Sweden is. Those are capitalist countries with strong welfare.

Youre being needlessly pedantic dude

Im not saying the US needs to abandon all forms of capitalist society so that we live in Star Trek utopia land

Im saying socialist policies clearly work, as does socialism itself

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Mead posted...

whoa forbes doesnt like socialism

wonder what an unbiased group like that would have against a system like that

I take it you didnt even read the article because it proves what you said wrong. Well feel free to stay uneducated and spout misinformation then.

MartianManchild posted...

I take it you didnt even read the article

You take it you pay for it mister

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Actually there is a very very big difference between Sweden strongly regulating and having strong welfare (which it does), and Sweden mandating public ownership of corporations (which they don't).

You said 3 posts ago that you supported public ownership (Socialism). You also said you supported Swedish welfare (welfare in a Capitalist country).

My point is that Socialists (and myself) widely recognize that Bernie Sanders isn't a true Socialist but still support him because he's the furthest left any American politician has gone.

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Yellow posted...

You said 3 posts ago that you supported public ownership (Socialism). You also said you supported Swedish welfare (welfare in a Capitalist country).

lol that does sound like me

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If a company pays their employees in stock option, then you have Demoractic Socialism.

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I like Scandinavia! I don't like Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher!

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Communism is an immediate family, Socialism is your immediate neighbours, Capitalism is interactions between strangers
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What does that even mean

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Elements of socialism created America in the 20th century. Think for a moment if everyone who owned a car had to pay say $5 dollars for every mile they with that money being used to maintain our roads and highways/ How many of us would drive often? Not many of us!

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Yellow posted...

Socialism is when the workers own the company they work for as opposed to shareholders

If that's your definition then a big chunk of companies are 'socialist' because many of the employees own stock in the company. Particularly in small/new companies where bonuses and pay often come in the form of stock. Hell of the last few companies I worked for we received stock on an almost yearly basis and the last company worked for matched 401k contributions with company stock.

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Smarkil posted...

If that's your definition then a big chunk of companies are 'socialist' because many of the employees own stock in the company. Particularly in small/new companies where bonuses and pay often come in the form of stock. Hell of the last few companies I worked for we received stock on an almost yearly basis and the last company worked for matched 401k contributions with company stock.

That's true but with Socialism it's mandated by law that 100% of the company is distributed to the workers (idk if it was exactly 100% in practice but that was the concept). Which is why it's such an easy jump to Communism, which is the same thing except owned by the government (public ownership).

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Yellow posted...

Which is why it's such an easy jump to Communism

a total myth, otherwise all these socialist countries in the world would be slipping into communism left and right

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Well historically they do, mind you we're talking about Sweden and Norway which have rejected Socialism in favor of what we would call Social Democracy (a strong welfare state unrelated to the ownership of corporations), and as such are at no real risk of converting to Communism. I would say they are the least likely, considering the people there are not as enraged by Capitalism as they are in a place like the US, where its negative effects are rampant and unchecked. The US could very easily go Socialist if these complaints continue to be ignored.

Capitalism in Marxist Theory is the transition state to Socialism. Go too Capitalist, you will eventually break out into Socialism. In Marxist Theory Socialism is defined as the transition state in between Capitalism and Communism. You can see in Countries such as China, they're using Socialism as a transition away from Communism.

You can see the current Socialist countries here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

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Dude just because I mentioned Sweden one time doesnt mean thats all Im talking about

relax about sweden

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Ok comrade. What's your favorite Socialist country?

I was a fan of Iran when they tried to Socialize their oil profits. The US didn't take too kindly to that, so we decided to topple their country and force our puppet leaders on them (for freedom, of course). That lead to a theocratic revolution that destroyed their country. Don't worry, we're still trying to impose freedom on them to this day when we wage economic warfare and block medicine from going into the country.

Hell, we have Trump trying to overthrow them with his last dying breaths. This was one reason why Biden is different, he was a big supporter of the Iran deal.

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Communist music is more badass as well, so there's that. Capitalist countries have clearly failed in terms of music.

Sorry, I'm a huge fan of Socialism Communism and even Fascism, even if I don't necessarily believe in it. :) They just have so much energy, then Capitalism is like "get a burger at McDonalds bada ba ba baaa"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Q12OkBTHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJt_JdFwLw0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7lZPSZFQak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2ElEwUxq4

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Yellow posted...

Ok comrade. What's your favorite Socialist country?

Why would I have a favorite socialist country

thats just weird

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Whatever I'll let you off the hook lmao.

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i wish people would stop conflating socialism with authoritarianism

FDR was a socialist in a democracy, use him as your frame of reference, not fucking stalin

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I had another dream that I started a socialist revolution as spiderman because of this topic.

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Yellow posted...

That's true but with Socialism it's mandated by law that 100% of the company is distributed to the workers (idk if it was exactly 100% in practice but that was the concept). Which is why it's such an easy jump to Communism, which is the same thing except owned by the government (public ownership).

That's not Communism; it's State Capitalism.

Sure, a lot of State Capitalist countries called themselves Communist, but in reality they stopped before they actually got there.

Marx initially believed that State Capitalism was the first step towards Communism, until the Paris Commune happened and he decided that no, actually, State Capitalism was a terrible idea and there were better to achieve Communism. Lenin continued to advocate for State Capitalism as a step towards true Communism, but no one ever actually made it that far.

Government ownership of the means of production does not eliminate the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie as Socialism and Communism (being a form of Socialism) seek to do, it merely creates a new group of bourgeoisie to exploit the proletariat. It is antithetical to Socialism and, by extension, Communism.

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