Poll of the Day > Why should offices ever reopen?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I can't believe there's still a push for this or any desire to make office work normal again. It seems there's no reason to do this, and it's even been proven there's no reason to do this...I still hear that some people want to go back to it though.

I guess most people like being forced into in person office drama with? Or is it the driving in congested traffic for all those unpaid hours? Or being forced to dress up? Mandatory daycare for all your children since you cant be home when they are there?

Basically...people who like to go to the office probably just like objectively bad stuff that makes life terrible for everyone.


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yawn

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I want to go back to work. I miss interacting with people.

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Judgmenl posted...

I want to go back to work. I miss interacting with people.

This. And my commute was walking or could have been public transit if I didn't like walking. I enjoyed it.

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I mean...you can still work...you can even still interact. If it's post covid and everything is reopened you can even interact in person at nearby establishments (gyms, churches, etc etc) if its the in person aspect that you like.

But there's still no need for OFFICES


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It's easier to have impromptu work related conversations in the office and I like day to day chit chat with coworkers which is missing right now

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Also I got free lunch and dinner and breakfast and had less dishes :p

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DrYuya posted...

I mean...you can still work...you can even still interact. If it's post covid and everything is reopened you can even interact in person at nearby establishments (gyms, churches, etc etc) if its the in person aspect that you like.

But there's still no need for OFFICES

Nah. You can't just go out to lunch with your coworkers and blow 1-2 hours every month.
Using Webex/Slack is not the same as just getting everyone together and shooting the shit every morning before standup, or at the end of the day for that matter.
You can't effectively whiteboard.

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Working from home with a baby in the house is awful for me. Also, I like my commute, I get a quiet train and I can walk home. I like/need the feeling of oversight in an office to work efficiently and having colleagues around for a chat/advice is great. Plus being in town after work to meet friends, shop or just enhoy a different atmosphere is worth its weight in gold


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I like the office because my mind is in work mode there

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idk

Some people aren't able to get themselves to work from home and need an office to motivate themselves to do anything.

Some people are even more productive at home.

Why not reopen them. People have been parading around this country as if the pandemic was a joke even as hundreds of thousands of people were dying from it.

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blu posted...

Some people are even more productive at home.

I am even more productive at home.
The problem is I don't want to be.
The other problem is my coworkers are not productive at home.
The problem is I want them to be.

So this is why office work is necessary for me.

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Work from home = Live at work.

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Extroverts are more than welcome to go back to the office if they really need it, but for my sake, I've spent enough of my life trying to be more like one of them.

It was hilarious to see them all lose their fucking minds as the world told them they needed to be more like me for a little bit though. The moment the roles were reversed they all turned into gigantic crybabies.

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

Extroverts are more than welcome to go back to the office if they really need it, but for my sake, I've spent enough of my life trying to be more like one of them.

It was hilarious to see them all lose their fucking minds as the world told them they needed to be more like me for a little bit though. The moment the roles were reversed they all turned into gigantic crybabies.

This...they had no problem preaching to us about how important all this collaboration was and why at home work would never work for so long...when it turned out to be fine (which I knew it would be even before) it was so hilarious.

To lose their dumb fantasy football leagues, constant impromptu meetings that never did anything but help them prove they were busy, office politics, forced social gatherings and dressing up must have really rocked their worlds. Heck, even in this thread some guy mentioned "whiteboarding"...I'm pretty happy now I don't have to hear corporate jargon like that on the regular now and can instead just work and complete tasks without all the fluff of a regular corporate setting.

It was interesting to see though, despite how much they insisted all that stuff was really important for the job, when it was proven to really be unnecessary they pushed for offices reopening anyway.

So it was never about things needed for the job...they just wanted others to like working the way they worked.

What I think... or at least hope they best part of all this is though...is the tech jobs that insisted we go in to the office before now can face losing employees to other places that are willing to let their employees stay remote...if and when they try and make us go back. The box has been opened and no matter what staying at home is a bargaining chip/perk that if some are offering, the ones that don't will get to feel the hurt of losing people. At least that's my hope...it should never go away and at the very least should stay an option for those that want it.

I mean...they obviously don't like being forced to work our way...so I think this could be a learning moment for them to not continue to force us to work their way from this point on. Probably not...but I can hope.

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I'm an introvert. Being social too much drains me of energy and I often enjoyed weekends staying home before all this, one social gathering a week was all I could really handle. That doesn't mean I'm an entirely asocial person who doesn't like people and social isolation is not good for mental health. Your obvious bitterness toward other people is just a show of that.

DrYuya posted...

Heck, even in this thread some guy mentioned "whiteboarding"...

This is very common for software engineers for brainstorming ideas quickly. That's not jargon?

DrYuya posted...

should stay an option for those that want it.

My office will be doing this. But 80% of people want to return to the office at least 2-3 days a week so.

Veedrock- posted...

Work from home = Live at work.

This. Separation is really difficult now and it just all bleeds together.


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TheOkHornedRat posted...

Extroverts are more than welcome to go back to the office if they really need it, but for my sake, I've spent enough of my life trying to be more like one of them.

It was hilarious to see them all lose their fucking minds as the world told them they needed to be more like me for a little bit though. The moment the roles were reversed they all turned into gigantic crybabies.

Do you understand that "being an extrovert" is a spectrum?

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Judgmenl posted...

Do you understand that "being an extrovert" is a spectrum?

It sounds like they're just mistaking introversion for social awkwardness and asocial behaviors to excuse and feel better about themselves.

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If an office job can be done from home, it's just going to get outsourced to Asia.

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I don't work a job where work from home is possible, but I could see being drained by constant work from home, meaning I sit at my own personal computer even more than I already do. I can see it being useful in some scenarios, like being really tired and shit, but I feel like an actual commute wouldn't be that bad. The idea of "going to work" in my bedroom seems like it'd get old kinda quick for me.

faramir77 posted...

If an office job can be done from home, it's just going to get outsourced to Asia.

No because there are certain products that have a negative stigma if they aren't developed in the United States.

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Judgmenl posted...

No because there are certain products that have a negative stigma if they aren't developed in the United States.

Like customer service?

Oh wait

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From the employer's perspective, it probably makes employees easier to track or monitor and ensure they're not slacking off on company time.

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The thought of being able to work from home is extremely appealing to me.

But, in fairness, Ive never had an office job and have only ever worked retail. So, being underpaid to wake up at 5:00 am everything day to travel 40 minutes to work six days a week to do manual labor and deal with some of the dumbest idiots on the planet is something Im very tired of.

The thought of not having to put so much wear on my car and the fortune Id save on gas alone makes that sound like a dream come true lol.

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faramir77 posted...

Like customer service?

Oh wait

No like Software, especially any kind of embedded devices.
Like certain companies will not even deal with you if you are not in the US.
Also I have worked at companies have shown significant growth after they transfer their supply chain away from China.
Companies are afraid of data breaches and their data going to Russia and China.

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Judgmenl posted...

No like Software, especially any kind of embedded devices.
Like certain companies will not even deal with you if you are not in the US.
Also I have worked at companies have shown significant growth after they transfer their supply chain away from China.
Companies are afraid of data breaches and their data going to Russia and China.

Fair.

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argonautweakend posted...

I don't work a job where work from home is possible, but I could see being drained by constant work from home, meaning I sit at my own personal computer even more than I already do. I can see it being useful in some scenarios, like being really tired and shit, but I feel like an actual commute wouldn't be that bad. The idea of "going to work" in my bedroom seems like it'd get old kinda quick for me.

I have a dedicated office in my house and it's still draining. Well it's also where my personal computer is, but it's not the bedroom is my point.

Given the choice between full remote and full in office I'd go full remote, but at my current job it's looking like I'll be remote with the option to go in to the office. I actually have gone into the office a couple times but for now it's still not the same, no activities and it's only like five people. I don't know why they'd keep an office open but that's not really my business. I'm sure if they decided not to keep an office they wouldn't pass the savings on to me anyway.

rexcrk posted...

The thought of being able to work from home is extremely appealing to me.

But, in fairness, Ive never had an office job and have only ever worked retail. So, being underpaid to wake up at 5:00 am everything day to travel 40 minutes to work six days a week to do manual labor and deal with some of the dumbest idiots on the planet is something Im very tired of.

The thought of not having to put so much wear on my car and the fortune Id save on gas alone makes that sound like a dream come true lol.

It is...and add to that if you have kids...ones that are old enough to know to stay quiet while you work but would have to otherwise be in an expensive day care if you were at the office...now you don't have to pay for day care.

Also also...you can work any job anywhere now so your not limiting application to stuff in your area...also also also not dressing up in khakis etc....my god it's just so much better in every way that actually matters.

But some people want to chit chat in person at work I guess because they don't have literally anywhere else to do it so let's ALL go back to that hell right?


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This topic feels like it's inventing a problem that doesn't exist so you can get mad at it. I'm not aware of any push to get people back into offices and if that does happen it'll probably be optional.

You seem to be under the impression that khakis in the office are still common, so maybe you just work somewhere that's still in the dark ages. Having worked at a place like that before, I wouldn't want to work there from home either. A khakis office does sound like the type of place that would mandate people coming in for no reason after a year of remote success, I'll admit.

Lots of people don't have kids

DrYuya posted...

Also also...you can work any job anywhere now so your not limiting application to stuff in your area...also also also not dressing up in khakis etc....my god it's just so much better in every way that actually matters.

I am fucking terrified if this becomes the norm and I have to relearn how to interview and find a job. I was so lucky to get the job I currently have and any dramatic change in getting a job is going to be a complete pain in the ass.

I don't even know how to effectively find remote work. My job searching in the past was totally based on where I was and what places I knew I could commute to. Also as a result my guess is that the interview process is going to become even more like the "west coast" interview process where you have to jump through hoops of trick question programming questions that I really don't give two fucks about (they don't actually dictate any level of intelligence). Also I don't have a webcam, do not want a webcam, and don't plan on ever getting a webcam.

Then again, I'd be looking for more senior positions at this point anyways.

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DrYuya posted...

so let's ALL go back to that hell right

Lots of people don't view going into the office as hell and have listed reasons you just dismiss (impromptu conversations and brainstorming being a big issue but if you just grind away tedious tasks I can see why you don't understand that, having a separation of work and life, perks like free lunch/dinner/breakfast, some people like interacting with their coworkers).

Remote positions were available before covid and will only be more available afterward, so you can feel free to do that if you hate your coworkers that badly.

I can see why remote is preferable for some people and have seen good arguments for it. But there are valid reasons people prefer not working remote too. You however just sound insufferable.

GrabASnickers posted...

Lots of people don't have kids

lots of people with kids are having a hard time right now because they're split between working and providing childcare

GrabASnickers posted...

I'm not aware of any push to get people back into offices and if that does happen it'll probably be optional.

yeah especially in tech. As I mentioned, my office will be providing that option but 80% still want to come into the office.

GrabASnickers posted...

A khakis office does sound like the type of place that would mandate people coming in for no reason after a year of remote success, I'll admit.

Yeah I would not want to work at an office that had dress codes >_> I can see it for customer facing positions but otherwise nah no need for that. Many people at my office wear jeans and leggings.

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Judgmenl posted...

I am fucking terrified if this becomes the norm and I have to relearn how to interview and find a job. I was so lucky to get the job I currently have and any dramatic change in getting a job is going to be a complete pain in the ass.

I don't even know how to effectively find remote work. My job searching in the past was totally based on where I was and what places I knew I could commute to. Also as a result my guess is that the interview process is going to become even more like the "west coast" interview process where you have to jump through hoops of trick question programming questions that I really don't give two fucks about (they don't actually dictate any level of intelligence). Also I don't have a webcam, do not want a webcam, and don't plan on ever getting a webcam.

Remote interviews are a thing but it really kinda sucks for system design whiteboarding parts. A lot of candidates get tablets for drawing with a pen so I would advise that. I bet you would face some stigma if you don't have a webcam though (I never turn on my webcam for company meetings and neither do 50% of other people but for interviews it's kinda different).

Judgmenl posted...

Then again, I'd be looking for more senior positions at this point anyways.

Senior positions still have algorithm questions in my experience. It's not always "trick" questions though. And there's often a debugging portion to see how you would think through being in an unfamiliar code base and system design portions are weighed heavily.

One place I interviewed actually just gave me a project (not anything they needed at their company / not free work, it was obviously a simple example of what they do) and I got to work alongside other people through the day as if it were a regular day at the office. Started off with giving me background ahead of time and a meeting where I presented the system and API design. Very comfortable, just felt like working there. Really liked that one.

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I have to be on cam every day at least for stand-ups, or like it's an unwritten rule. I only feel comfortable turning it off for larger meetings where I don't speak. Wish I didn't need to at all though

GrabASnickers posted...

I have to be on cam every day at least for stand-ups, or like it's an unwritten rule. I only feel comfortable turning it off for larger meetings where I don't speak. Wish I didn't need to at all though

I think that's more the norm. Was just mentioning even at my company where we're lax about it normally, it still is an unwritten rule when it comes to interviews.

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Yea I have only had to pull out my phone for webex 2-3 times over the past year. Nobody puts on their cameras and there is no pressure to.

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faramir77 posted...

If an office job can be done from home, it's just going to get outsourced to Asia.

I highly doubt it. People are bad enough with communication in the office, but when it shifted to home work they were even worse. I doubt anyone in my company would trust outsourcing the office work overseas - especially if their communication skills are lacking (including speaking English properly)

Once you start managing people across multiple time zones shit goes south fast. Previous company we outsourced some work to Cairo and it was effectively 3 days of the week we could even reach them.

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Comradery. Being remote i never felt like i was associated with much of the people at work.

I miss the cookouts, the golfing trips, holiday parties etc. You develop faster bonds among coworkers when you're in the moment.

A lot of work is done much easier when you can directly contact people by, well, talking to them as well as having all data and the like in a centralized location. It's simply a LOT easier to get some work done when you can just walk across an office and talk to the six people you need to while doing so instead of trying to open livestreams/chats/whatever with them. Especially since it's also much easier for a company to handle providing the necessary services to its employees. Like, when working from home you could have six different people with six different computer capabilities, three running macs, one running Linux, two refusing to use a computer except for the bare minimum, and one who has had their computer co-opted by their child watching Baby Shark. You don't have that in an office where all the computers are the same.

While I DO think a lot of businesses will switch to 'work-at-home' with only limited office-time if offices are used at all simply to save on rent; a lot of them will suffer majorly in productivity and will need people to come in to the office as well.

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DrYuya posted...

I can't believe there's still a push for this or any desire to make office work normal again. It seems there's no reason to do this, and it's even been proven there's no reason to do this...I still hear that some people want to go back to it though.

lolwut? Shitpost/10

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Veedrock- posted...

Work from home = Live at work.

Yep, separating work from life/rest is mentally very important. Having a workplace/office separate from your bedroom is a luxury that many people do not have.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Yep, separating work from life/rest is mentally very important. Having a workplace/office separate from your bedroom is a luxury that many people do not have.

Well, a huge part of that is that people move to cities in order to function from offices better. But if an office no longer exists there's no work-related reason to stay in the city anymore and you can move to more rural areas where you could get a much bigger house/more land than you would staying in the city for the same price or less.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Well, a huge part of that is that people move to cities in order to function from offices better. But if an office no longer exists there's no work-related reason to stay in the city anymore and you can move to more rural areas where you could get a much bigger house/more land than you would staying in the city for the same price or less.

This is true for a lot of people, but doesn't cover everyone. I would never want to live far from a city. I prefer city amenities (many things to do, great food, arts, events, walkability) over space. Just sucks right now because those things don't really exist with covid.

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grimhilde00 posted...

This is true for a lot of people, but doesn't cover everyone. I would never want to live far from a city. I prefer city amenities (many things to do, great food, arts, events, walkability) over space. Just sucks right now because those things don't really exist with covid.

With the exception of walkability I don't think that more rural areas are lacking in such things; but that's your choice. However I do feel it's wrong to complain about a lack of space then, when the possibility of having more space with the trade-off of not living in a city anymore is presented, turn it down because you value other things in the city more while still complaining about a lack of space. If you see the trade-off as not being worth it that's fine; but you are deciding that those things are worth more than potentially having your own office space in a larger house.

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I have an office space in my apartment, I didn't make that argument. That doesn't totally solve work life separation for me.

And no, rural areas have less festivals, museums, opera houses, ballet troupes, etc.

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grimhilde00 posted...

I have an office space in my apartment, I didn't make that argument. That doesn't totally solve work life separation for me.

And no, rural areas have less festivals, museums, opera houses, ballet troupes, etc.

Then why are you responding to a post specifically about how people don't have the space for a separate office/bedroom in city apartments?

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Unbridled9 posted...

Then why are you responding to a post specifically about how people don't have the space for a separate office/bedroom in city apartments?

I was responding specifically to the part about there not being a reason to live in a city if it weren't for needing to go to an office.

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grimhilde00 posted...

I was responding specifically to the part about there not being a reason to live in a city if it weren't for needing to go to an office.

For a lot of people the whole reason that they live in the city instead of a town or a more rural area is because they moved there specifically to deal with work better. It isn't unfair to say that, once the need to travel to the office is removed, they lose the majority of their reason to stay in the city and will opt for less expensive living/larger living spaces in more rural areas.

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But she likes living in the city for other reasons so she isn't one of those "lot of people", and it doesn't change that you tried to claim that rural areas have a similar cultural footprint as cities