Poll of the Day > Omg who invented money for real

(+) Yeah! (+)

We could have all been living in a society where we just use our skills to benefit each other freely but NO

Money

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I did I'm sorry it was meant to motivate women to get naked for me but now we have class separation and wars and shit what have I done??

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Liberals

I believe the concept of money was invested by multiple societies around the same time, and not just one person

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the roman's invented money

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Ogurisama posted...

I believe the concept of money was invested by multiple societies around the same time, and not just one person

Well fuck them

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so lol disabled people, who don't deserve to survive when put against people who are abled in ways they cannot compete with?

seems kind of short-sighted to only value people based on what they can do

Fam_Fam posted...

so lol disabled people, who don't deserve to survive when put against people who are abled in ways they cannot compete with?

seems kind of short-sighted to only value people based on what they can do

What? They are still included. Disabled people have skills. Human value isn't derived by the amount of money you can contribute to society. Lame take. Try again.

Even people without skills or that are totally disabled can be cared for when there is no money. So what is your actual point?

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I think it was some guy named Johnny Cash

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Fam_Fam posted...

seems kind of short-sighted to only value people based on what they can do

Dick size is the currency of alphas. And sigmas.

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Jen0125 posted...

What? They are still included. Disabled people have skills. Human value isn't derived by the amount of money you can contribute to society. Lame take. Try again.

Even people without skills or that are totally disabled can be cared for when there is no money. So what is your actual point?

Your value isn't determined by amount of money you can contribute, but in this scenario, your ability to survive is dependent on your ability to be productive, and if that's the only thing you can exchange for goods/services, people who don't have the ability to provide skills as efficiently as others won't be able to survive (because people will simply go for people who can give them the most efficient/best services, not someone who is less efficient/needs accommodations for the same production. This type of free market is rigged towards people with the ability to produce the most in the most efficient way possible, and people cannot keep up simply can't survive, since they are given no alternative.

HornedLion posted...

Dick size is the currency of alphas. And sigmas.

And ligmas

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Fam_Fam posted...

Your value isn't determined by amount of money you can contribute, but in this scenario, your ability to survive is dependent on your ability to be productive, and if that's the only thing you can exchange for goods/services, people who don't have the ability to provide skills as efficiently as others won't be able to survive (because people will simply go for people who can give them the most efficient/best services, not someone who is less efficient/needs accommodations for the same production. This type of free market is rigged towards people with the ability to produce the most in the most efficient way possible, and people cannot keep up simply can't survive, since they are given no alternative.

So your problem is that you have a baseline view of what you perceive to be productive. Maybe you should work on that.

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Jen0125 posted...

So your problem is that you have a baseline view of what you perceive to be productive. Maybe you should work on that.

No, I have an assumption about how the economy works, and why we have certain measures in place to prevent people from being discriminated against. A completely "free" market does not work, with or without money.

Fam_Fam posted...

No, I have an assumption about how the economy works, and why we have certain measures in place to prevent people from being discriminated against. A completely "free" market does not work, with or without money.

I will not trust your assumptions but thank you for participating

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Slaverywithextrasteps.png

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Jen0125 posted...

We could have all been living in a society where we just use our skills to benefit each other freely but NO

Money

Ok, Naruto.
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Ideally we will end up with a Star Trek TNG type society eventually

people that want to do lots of stuff are encouraged to do so, but also you can just chill if you want

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The Monopoly dude (on the front of the box) made it up I think in like 1934. It made it easier to keep track of who was winning, and spies out from there.

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Dmess85 posted...

the roman's invented money

Sumerians were before them. And then later Babylon had pretty detailed logged economics.

Edit: actually looks like multiple ancient mesopotamian cultures used shekels

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Basically jen right now

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywVHF6Lltac

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Greedy people.

Jen0125 posted...

Even people without skills or that are totally disabled can be cared for when there is no money. So what is your actual point?

Whos going to actually go to work if all of a sudden no one had to? I understand where you coming from and are system of economics is certainly flawed, but were not better off without it.

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ZBug_ posted...

Whos going to actually go to work if all of a sudden no one had to?

people that are good at shit and passionate about things, or want to put in the work for the nicer luxuries in life

the same people who work in places where theyve done UBI. Turns out most people continue working even if they dont need to in order to survive.

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Mead posted...

people that are good at shit and passionate about things, or want to put in the work for the nicer luxuries in life

the same people who work in places where theyve done UBI. Turns out most people continue working even if they dont need to in order to survive.

Im saying things that require everyday people to work in order for society to function, arent going to be worked if you say theres no longer incentive to do so.
Most working class people arent keen an working for nothing. And thats not even including how many lazy people there are. Im not saying they dont deserve a comfortable life.

if you could somehow magically give everyone a comfortable life without them having to ever work hard. Thats great. But thats a totally unrealistic fantasy.

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ZBug_ posted...

if you could somehow magically give everyone a comfortable life without them having to ever work hard. Thats great. But thats a totally unrealistic fantasy.

That's not what I'm suggesting

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Jen0125 posted...

That's not what I'm suggesting

I guess Im confused then. Because if youre still rewarding people for their skills (be it physical or mental) how are you quantifying that reward?
Currency exists to quantify someones reward for their tasks. Granted its imperfect and seldom works that way in our great capitalist nation (/s)

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Mead posted...

people that are good at shit and passionate about things, or want to put in the work for the nicer luxuries in life

the same people who work in places where theyve done UBI. Turns out most people continue working even if they dont need to in order to survive.

It always blows my mind when people argue against UBI by saying that "there's no motivation to work anymore!"
Like bruh you think people are gonna just sit around all day with nothing more than a house to live in and food to eat? People are just gonna stop wanting to watch TV or play video games or using the internet?

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ZBug_ posted...

Most working class people arent keen an working for nothing.

which is why they get money for working

if people work then yeah they should get something that they want in exchange for their labor

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who invented the idea of banks being able to invent INFINITE money

why can't EYE do that

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Jen0125 posted...

We could have all been living in a society where we just use our skills to benefit each other freely but NO

Money

Say a person is skilled at making chairs and wants tomatoes but the tomato guy is good on chairs. The tomato guy isn't going to give them up for chairs he doesn't need, nor is he going to give them up for free, because uncompensated labor is wrong. Thus a system of exchange was created whereby the chair making individual can exchange their chairs for a mutually agreed-upon medium to a chair needing individual, and use that mutually agreed-upon medium to then exchange for tomatoes. And money is born.

PO invented money eons ago just to spite us all, and I can think of no possible argument that will counter this.

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hungrymike posted...

Say a person is skilled at making chairs and wants tomatoes but the tomato guy is good on chairs. The tomato guy isn't going to give them up for chairs he doesn't need, nor is he going to give them up for free, because uncompensated labor is wrong.

Under Jen's utopia they wouldn't barter directly, both the chair maker and tomato farmer would put their goods into general distribution where anybody can take. Their "compensation" is that they too get to access general distribution of goods, presumably at the same rate as the general population.

Of course there's a hundred problems with this that she'll handwave. She'll still get a Kpop smartphone and cosmetic surgery in her imaginary system because reasons.

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It a heroic creation

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Its an efficient way to put a rough value on skills and trade with multiple people. Maybe your blacksmith didnt need a new kitchen table, but maybe blacksmith needs a garden and the gardener needs a kitchen table and the woodworker needs an axe.

Aww, twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut!

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Veedrock- posted...

Under Jen's utopia they wouldn't barter directly, both the chair maker and tomato farmer would put their goods into general distribution where anybody can take. Their "compensation" is that they too get to access general distribution of goods, presumably at the same rate as the general population.

Of course there's a hundred problems with this that she'll handwave. She'll still get a Kpop smartphone and cosmetic surgery in her imaginary system because reasons.

she sure does seem to enjoy the perks of the system that she frequently denounces.

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

she sure does seem to enjoy the perks of the system that she frequently denounces.

You have criticisms of society, yet you still participate in it. Hmm, curious

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Veedrock- posted...

Under Jen's utopia they wouldn't barter directly, both the chair maker and tomato farmer would put their goods into general distribution where anybody can take. Their "compensation" is that they too get to access general distribution of goods, presumably at the same rate as the general population.

Of course there's a hundred problems with this that she'll handwave. She'll still get a Kpop smartphone and cosmetic surgery in her imaginary system because reasons.

Also hungry Mike is right. Where did I say there could be no direct bartering? That defeats the purpose of using your skills to obtain other goods.


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Jen0125 posted...

You have criticisms of society, yet you still participate in it. Hmm, curious

lmao

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Jen0125 posted...

That's not what I'm suggesting

i dont think you know what youre suggesting.

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

i dont think you know what youre suggesting.

I don't think you guys do since you keep making up context to apply to my opening post that I didn't say. It's uncanny how some of you have a penchant for putting words into people's posts that aren't there and then upsetting yourself over it.

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you haven't really suggested anything. all youve done is try to tell us we're not understanding what youre suggesting because we have all rightly pointed out the fallacious nature of your statement. probably because you dont actually know what youre suggesting

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Your topics are always a great place to practice building strawmen

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

you haven't really suggested anything. all youve done is try to tell us we're not understanding what youre suggesting because we have all rightly pointed out the fallacious nature of your statement. probably because you dont actually know what youre suggesting

So if you recognize that is the case maybe don't make things up to get mad about. It's pretty simple

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Jen0125 posted...

So if you recognize that is the case maybe don't make things up to get mad about. It's pretty simple

So you dont know what you're suggesting? Just another hairbrained thought you came up with while getting way too high some night?

Cool.

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

So you dont know what you're suggesting? Just another hairbrained thought you came up with while getting way too high some night?

Cool.

No, I just don't feel the need to feed into your feigned outrage.

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Suuuuuure

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Jen0125 posted...

Also hungry Mike is right. Where did I say there could be no direct bartering? That defeats the purpose of using your skills to obtain other goods.

That's even worse. It reminds me of a conversation with a friend like 12 years ago. He stole a pair of gloves "because we shouldn't have money, we should trade goods and services." When I asked what he would have traded for the gloves he got pissy because he had no answer. It's a real half baked thought that doesn't scale beyond a very small community.

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Veedrock- posted...

That's even worse. It reminds me of a conversation with a friend like 12 years ago. He stole a pair of gloves "because we shouldn't have money, we should trade goods and services." When I asked what he would have traded for the gloves he got pissy because he had no answer. It's a real half baked thought that doesn't scale beyond a very small community.

No, it actually works better on a mass scale because people like your friend will be in the minority. If you don't care about helping your fellow man, you should have no issues with a minority who can't work or can't obtain any skills. Your friend would be forced to work because no one will want to trade with him if he's able minded and able bodied but offers nothing. Your friend will be forced to cooperate or else he won't find many people willing to help him live. Everyone has some type of skill they can use to help society function - even disabled people.

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