Poll of the Day > Critical Race Theory

(+) Yeah! (+)

Conservatives are so painfully and willfully fucking stupid lol

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I have yet to hear them say what it is.

But Ive heard a lot about how our elementary school students are being taught it despite it being a college level class.

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HornedLion posted...

I have yet to hear them say what it is.

But Ive heard a lot about how our elementary school students are being taught it despite it being a college level class.

its them afraid that white kids will get bullied for being white

which they will, and black and brown and Asian kids will get bullied for being black and brown and Asian and for every other reason because kids are mean little shitbags to each other because by and large they dont have any wisdom yet even if they are educated

but they want to act like the most extreme left points of view that they see on Twitter is real life and rampant in schools despite largely the opposite is true. In a world where most Americans were not even aware that Juneteenth or the Tulsa Massacre and cover up even took place, they have taken the position that if we teach the honest history of our country that white kids will feel bad and black and brown kids will be trained to see themselves as victims

which is honestly pretty insulting to modern school kids, if you level with them and tell them the truth about things, its pretty effective at cutting through all the bullshit

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This video is relevant and funny but also sad.

https://youtu.be/FhH2RSVEcWQ

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Yeah Im not really in the mood to watch a youtube video

and I cant stand The Young Turks

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the name is also stupid, what is theoretical about history

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Modest_Mouse posted...

what is theoretical about history

Uh, plenty.
We don't know what caused the Bronze Age Collapse, for example.
There are theories about what caused it though.

shadowsword87 posted...

Uh, plenty.
We don't know what caused the Bronze Age Collapse, for example.
There are theories about what caused it though.

it was CRT

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It's really simple - ancestral redlining of minorities meant that even though a minority is now equal(ish) they are still suffering the consequences of that redlining such as having to go to bad school districts and not being approved for bank loans because of house location.

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Modest_Mouse posted...

the name is also stupid, what is theoretical about history

lmao. Holy shit

Ive never had anybody explain it to me before so i am not even sure what it is.

I had figured maybe it was a push to cover lesser known yet important topics in US history like the burning of tulsa but otherwise i have no idea.

argonautweakend posted...

Ive never had anybody explain it to me before so i am not even sure what it is.

I had figured maybe it was a push to cover lesser known yet important topics in US history like the burning of tulsa but otherwise i have no idea.

they intentionally try not to define it

cause all it actually is, is what Lok described and it is only taught and studied at a few graduate level universities

but its easier to communicate a big lie compared to a complicated and largely uninteresting truth, so they use the term CRT to represent basically any grievance they have towards them not personally agreeing with anything that is taught to kids in school

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Cacciato posted...

lmao. Holy shit

@Cacciato ?

im not saying CRT is stupid or that it shouldnt be taught, im just arguing semantics. the name is stupid.

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Modest_Mouse posted...

im not saying CRT is stupid or that it shouldnt be taught, im just arguing semantics. the name is stupid.

Ya didn't respond to me, there are plenty of points in history where we just don't know what happened, and there are educated speculations.
Which are theories.

shadowsword87 posted...

Ya didn't respond to me, there are plenty of points in history where we just don't know what happened, and there are educated speculations.
Which are theories.

yeah slavery is just a theory bro

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It's pretty much a dog whistle for a racist culling of teaching about the past. For example, they want to ban books like To Kill a Mockingbird.

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Modest_Mouse posted...

@Cacciato ?

im not saying CRT is stupid or that it shouldnt be taught, im just arguing semantics. the name is stupid.

it has its foundations in Critical Theory and deals with race, wtf else should they call it?

It's terrifying how the right wing media were able to turn CRT into a major talking point overnight, despite it not being taught to kids at all, or taught to anyone not specifically studying the racial history at an advanced level.

They can conjure up a controversy out of thin air about virtually anything at this point, which should worry people. Biden could cure cancer and the Republican base would still mindlessly oppose him over whatever new culture war they've been told to care about on any given day.

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Modest_Mouse posted...

yeah slavery is just a theory bro

I don't even know where you got that from.
You said it's a bad name because it's a Theory about history. Where history shouldn't have theories because it's based on facts. I said that there are plenty of theories, because there aren't always enough facts about history.
Where did this line of logic coming from?

My understanding is the term "theory" here is used in a more scientific context, where it looks to explain various facts we know about using an comprehensive framework or cause that is consistent with our existing knowledge.

So examining history through the lens of CRT means looking at history with the assumption that racism is a motivating factor for many different events. In a similar way to how Marxist theory is viewing history as being motivated by the relationship between different economic classes.

It's not going to work in all cases, but it's helpful in forcing you to look at factors you may not have otherwise considered when looking at a specific event.

The lens through which we traditionally view history is heavily, heavily, flawed (we broadly tend to view history as the sum of different wars guided by various influential military leaders). And it can be difficult to consider alternatives without a framework telling you what to look for, which is what CRT provides.

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See this is exactly what they want

for everyone to argue about the meaning of their stupid term instead of pushing for progressive change

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Blightzkrieg posted...

My understanding is the term "theory" here is used in a more scientific context, where it looks to explain various facts we know about using an comprehensive framework or cause that is consistent with our existing knowledge.

So examining history through the lens of CRT means looking at history with the assumption that racism is a motivating factor for many different events. In a similar way to how Marxist theory is viewing history as being motivated by the relationship between different economic classes.

It's not going to work in all cases, but it's helpful in forcing you to look at factors you may not have otherwise considered when looking at a specific event.

The lens through which we traditionally view history is heavily, heavily, flawed (we broadly tend to view history as the sum of different wars guided by various influential military leaders). And it can be difficult to consider alternatives without a framework telling you what to look for, which is what CRT provides.

Oh, feminism for black people.
I understand why conservatives are upset that it exists.

Mead posted...

See this is exactly what they want

for everyone to argue about the meaning of their stupid term instead of pushing for progressive change

They don't care what the left does.

The term is just a bogeyman to motivate their base, who don't know what it means and aren't trying to learn what it means in good faith.

Like how they stuck the "defund the police" slogan onto the very pro-cop Biden-Harris administration.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

They don't care what the left does.

The term is just a bogeyman to motivate their base, who don't know what it means and aren't trying to learn what it means in good faith.

Like how they stuck the "defund the police" slogan onto the very pro-cop Biden-Harris administration.

they want division because distractions make it easier for them to lie and cheat

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Blightzkrieg posted...

They don't care what the left does.

The term is just a bogeyman to motivate their base, who don't know what it means and aren't trying to learn what it means in good faith.

Like how they stuck the "defund the police" slogan onto the very pro-cop Biden-Harris administration.

Let's be real though there is a segment of the left especially the social media mob that outright demonizes all police and acts like thousands of innocents are gunned down every year. The defund the police insanity should have been strongly condemned right away.

This critical race theory nonsense is a bit different in that it's mostly a dog whistle to gut education of any past atrocities, including banning books like To Kill a Mockingbird.

The far left is a problem though. They almost ruined passing anything by holding the infrastructure bill hostage. It's like they were jealous of the Republicans earning the "party of no" label and wanted in on that. Stupidity.

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The defund the police insanity should have been strongly condemned right away.

good thing it was, didnt stop the big lie party from running wild with it though

The far left is a problem though. They almost ruined passing anything by holding the infrastructure bill hostage.

republicans went 4 years not passing anything on infrastructure and then every single Republican senator refuses to sign the bill

but somehow that translates to being the problem of the far left? Give me a fucking break

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Critical Race theory is the belief that, basically, all of history is, more or less, a history in which white people did their best to oppress minorities, enslave them, and everything else. That they're basically guilty of all crimes and are nothing more than 'white devils'.

Not only is this not true but it does it's best to change the motivations of things that are true to to be entirely racist and, in it's most extreme form, will even claim that everything done by white people is either stolen from other people groups, made purely out of greed/hatred/something else negative, and that white people are basically uncivilized barbarians who only seem good because they managed to re-write the history books.

Basically, imagine a marxist world view in which the wealthy do nothing but oppress the minorities and everything done ever is done on the backs of oppressed people except swap out 'rich' for 'white' (though they're often the same) and swap out 'the working man' for 'minority' and you'd have more or less the same outcome.

The problem is that it not only teaches untrue facts about history (such as re-framing westward expansion/divine mandate to be basically an attempt to genocide native americans) even in 'true' facts it assumes the worst about white man and does it's best to ruin any positivity. It also usually either assumes the best or flat-out ignores any negative things done by other ethnic groups. This tends to be followed up with additional things to reinforce the thing like making a dorm exclusively for minority groups and other things.

critical race theory poisoned my turtle

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Unbridled9 posted...

Critical Race theory is the belief that, basically, all of history is, more or less, a history in which white people did their best to oppress minorities, enslave them, and everything else. That they're basically guilty of all crimes and are nothing more than 'white devils'.

Much in the same way that feminist theory says the state should mandate the removal of testicles from all human bodies, basically, and queer theory says that once a week straight people need to be strapped into the stocks for the enjoyment of the gays, more or less.

shadowsword87 posted...

Oh, feminism for black people.
I understand why conservatives are upset that it exists.

It's a decent general explanation. It originated out of need to critique laws that sounded racially neutral but continually produced racist outcomes- an obvious example would be the grandfather clause for voting restrictions.

Foundational texts include those of American heroes like Frederick Douglass, but the fearmongerers don't want you to actually learn a fucking thing about any of it, as very nicely demonstrated above by Unbridled.

Historical erasure is, btw, a key component of revisionism. Having massive, nation-wide meltdowns at the prospect of examining systemic racism in American history should clue you into how these people actually feel about history; they want it to be propaganda, not education.

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Voxwik posted...

Let's be real though there is a segment of the left especially the social media mob that outright demonizes all police and acts like thousands of innocents are gunned down every year. The defund the police insanity should have been strongly condemned right away.

This critical race theory nonsense is a bit different in that it's mostly a dog whistle to gut education of any past atrocities, including banning books like To Kill a Mockingbird.

The far left is a problem though. They almost ruined passing anything by holding the infrastructure bill hostage. It's like they were jealous of the Republicans earning the "party of no" label and wanted in on that. Stupidity.

what a stupidly wrong post


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Modest_Mouse posted...

the name is also stupid, what is theoretical about history

Literally all of history is theoretical. History is comprised of interpretations of evidence, including subjective accounts of events that have already been passed through multiple interpretive lenses before reaching modern historians, who then also subjectively interpret which accounts are the most credible and ultimately arrive at a theory that most (local) historians can agree on. It's an account of factual events, yes, but so is the Big Bang Theory (the science, not the sitcom).

The entire concept of theories exists to make sense of facts that cannot be directly measured, and that very handily describes history. Anyone that tries to insist that history is strictly factual is just trying to avoid having to re-evaluate their understanding of it in response to new information.

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I'm still thinking critical race theory is just something conservatives made up and liberals are failing to properly respond to their nonsense like usual so they just get away with it.

No one seems to know what it is. I have no clue what it is.

adjl posted...

Literally all of history is theoretical. History is comprised of interpretations of evidence, including subjective accounts of events that have already been passed through multiple interpretive lenses before reaching modern historians, who then also subjectively interpret which accounts are the most credible and ultimately arrive at a theory that most (local) historians can agree on. It's an account of factual events, yes, but so is the Big Bang Theory (the science, not the sitcom).

The entire concept of theories exists to make sense of facts that cannot be directly measured, and that very handily describes history. Anyone that tries to insist that history is strictly factual is just trying to avoid having to re-evaluate their understanding of it in response to new information.

Yeah, even very casual fans of history know this. As far as fields of study go, history is one of the most nebulous, which is why it's important to look at any given topic through multiple frameworks so you don't miss something important, to try and prevent too many biases from affecting your conclusions or omitting important factors (for example, again, the racially neutral language of the grandfather clauses might cause a modern person to look at them and fail to realize that this was a law targeting black people).

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Gaawa_chan posted...

Yeah, even very casual fans of history know this. As far as fields of study go, history is one of the most nebulous, which is why it's important to look at any given topic through multiple frameworks so you don't miss something important, to try and prevent too many biases from affecting your conclusions or omitting important factors (for example, again, the racially neutral language of the grandfather clauses might cause a modern person to look at them and fail to realize that this was a law targeting black people).

See also: "History is written by the victors." We openly acknowledge that recorded history is not a comprehensive, unbiased understanding of events. It shouldn't shock anyone to hear about theories in the context of history.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Critical Race theory is the belief that, basically, all of history is, more or less, a history in which white people did their best to oppress minorities, enslave them, and everything else. That they're basically guilty of all crimes and are nothing more than 'white devils'.

Not only is this not true but it does it's best to change the motivations of things that are true to to be entirely racist and, in it's most extreme form, will even claim that everything done by white people is either stolen from other people groups, made purely out of greed/hatred/something else negative, and that white people are basically uncivilized barbarians who only seem good because they managed to re-write the history books.

Basically, imagine a marxist world view in which the wealthy do nothing but oppress the minorities and everything done ever is done on the backs of oppressed people except swap out 'rich' for 'white' (though they're often the same) and swap out 'the working man' for 'minority' and you'd have more or less the same outcome.

The problem is that it not only teaches untrue facts about history (such as re-framing westward expansion/divine mandate to be basically an attempt to genocide native americans) even in 'true' facts it assumes the worst about white man and does it's best to ruin any positivity. It also usually either assumes the best or flat-out ignores any negative things done by other ethnic groups. This tends to be followed up with additional things to reinforce the thing like making a dorm exclusively for minority groups and other things.

Youve been bamboozled into believing nonsense.


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adjl posted...

See also: "History is written by the victors." We openly acknowledge that recorded history is not a comprehensive, unbiased understanding of events. It shouldn't shock anyone to hear about theories in the context of history.

See the commonly stated lie about colonized peoples (especially Africans). "They didn't build any extraordinary monuments." They did. Invaders destroyed them and then lied about it, saying that the people whose creations they reduced to rubble had built nothing of value, because pushing the narrative that the people they were oppressing were inherently incapable of creating great things was a key component of justifying atrocities. Benin is probably the most obvious example, but if you extend your view beyond Africa, this attitude was also pervasive in the Americas. The systematic annihilation of Mayan literature is perhaps one of the grossest destructions of culture that most people know next to nothing about:

"of the thousands of books in which the full extent of their learning and ritual was recorded, only four have survived to modern times (as though all that posterity knew of ourselves were to be based upon three prayer books and Pilgrim's Progress)."

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adjl posted...

See also: "History is written by the victors." We openly acknowledge that recorded history is not a comprehensive, unbiased understanding of events. It shouldn't shock anyone to hear about theories in the context of history.

Hell, we go through phases of "the great man of history" vs "history is defined by cultural undertones" by the decade.
That's just by the historians too, the people who read and re-read the same documents.

History is the abstract of archaeology.

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Mead posted...

Youve been bamboozled into believing nonsense.

I'd really say the opposite is true from what I've seen. Things like this:

https://www.wionews.com/world/white-residents-in-north-carolina-wash-black-preists-feet-during-prayers-for-george-floyd-304362

This

https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1271642202037301249

And this

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/american-colleges-segregated-housing-graduation-ceremonies/

And this

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51506733

For those who don't want to read... An article dealing with white people washing black peoples feet, about the CHAZ autonomous zone's (pathetic) garden being reserved for minorities, a college enacting segregated dorms, and another college saying it has 'too many white people' while arguing that minorities should have their own space. These are all results of what CRT advocates for and champions. Directly or indirectly.

I'd really say the opposite is true from what I've seen.

which is the problem with basing your views on anecdotes from the media

political correctness and white fright are both propaganda entirely drummed up by conservatives. Most people on the left simply arent very concerned with pronouns.

As much as you dont want it to be true, Liberal Arts degrees only make up around 4% of all college majors in the US. Outrage from the right is literally the only thing that makes SJWs track on twitter. Its free advertising every time some hack rights an article about how the brown people will get revenge on white people. Its a really fucking stupid mentality to cling to.

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Mead posted...

which is the problem with basing your views on anecdotes from the media

political correctness and white fright are both propaganda entirely drummed up by conservatives. Most people on the left simply arent very concerned with pronouns.

As much as you dont want it to be true, Liberal Arts degrees only make up around 4% of all college majors in the US. Outrage from the right is literally the only thing that makes SJWs track on twitter. Its free advertising every time some hack rights an article about how the brown people will get revenge on white people. Its a really fucking stupid mentality to cling to.

*sigh* look. I'm not even going to bother debating with someone like this. I'm sick of dealing with people who think that they're so smart yet can't see the world in front of them. So I'm gonna opt out here for my own sanity and desire to do... basically anything else.

Unbridled9 posted...

*sigh* look. I'm not even going to bother debating with someone like this. I'm sick of dealing with people who think that they're so smart yet can't see the world in front of them. So I'm gonna opt out here for my own sanity and desire to do... basically anything else.

its like youre allergic to information

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Unbridled9 posted...

oh hey its the dude who was caping for colombus!
im starting to see a trend here


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Unbridled9 posted...

I'd really say the opposite is true from what I've seen. Things like this:
https://www.wionews.com/world/white-residents-in-north-carolina-wash-black-preists-feet-during-prayers-for-george-floyd-304362
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1271642202037301249
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/american-colleges-segregated-housing-graduation-ceremonies/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51506733

Things that happen that you don't like =/= Critical Race Theory.
You sounds like the dipshits who thought smoking weed was a byproduct of communism.

Edit: Lol, that last article is fucking hilarious. One random person said something fucking stupid and you think it's relevant to or caused by an academic theory that originated in analysis of US law.

I'm not giving the National Review a click. Get me a legitimate news source or fuck off.

CHAZ was fucking stupid, big surprise. It also has nothing to do with CRT. I find it very interesting that CRT seems to you to be "Things that happen vaguely related to the topic of race that I don't like," since it means you can be a fearmongering conspiracist every time anything even remotely related to race makes the news or shows up on social media.

Finally, your first link? You clearly don't know jack shit about religion and history if you think that is some sort of offense. Holy fuck dude. I would give you some citations to look at but you're obviously allergic to education and I don't want a death on my hands. To put it simply, it is a largely Christian tradition to show deference and humility AND a willingness to touch and cleanse the form of another person. In modern times, it is in no uncertain terms a condemnation of segregation of peoples. Public displays of people of different races engaging in integration and care, especially when ritualized, are social statements, and they've existed for decades, with probably the most famous example being:
https://www.biography.com/news/mister-rogers-officer-clemmons-pool
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maundy_(foot_washing)
I don't know how the fuck you managed to get triggered over something so inoffensive. What level of snowflakery are we dealing with that a thousands-year-old tradition honoring the humanity of a person scares the shit out of you that you're screaming about Critical Race Theory says you're evil because you're white? Grow the fuck up.

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Unbridled9 posted...

These are all results of what CRT advocates for and champions. Directly or indirectly.

Proof?

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Every time that guy posts, I either laugh, facepalm, or both.

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Mead posted...

good thing it was, didnt stop the big lie party from running wild with it though

republicans went 4 years not passing anything on infrastructure and then every single Republican senator refuses to sign the bill

but somehow that translates to being the problem of the far left? Give me a fucking break

I never said the right is better; I said the far left wanting to impose whatever they want with a razor thin majority while holding legislation hostage (which thankfully did now pass) was terrible.

A faction of the left is ignoring reality and unrealistically demanding a socialist transformation most of the country doesn't want while the Republicans are laying the groundwork to end real elections in the country and turn us into a Eastern European style authoritarian state.

They aren't taking the far right seriously and may give the Republicans the last couple real electoral wins before Republicans end real election results being implemented entirely. All it takes is repeating a lie for 80% of Republicans to believe the election is stolen. Something like 30% of them believe violence is necessary. Our Republic is on the brink of a fall to traitors who no longer find fair elections convenient and these clowns are being delusional about shoving everything they want through, despite having neither the true majority nor public supporter to do so.

If the country falls to the authoritarians, I partially blame the far left and thier foot stomping "my way or no way" sabotage.

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They aren't taking the far right seriously

good

fuck the right. Fuck em.

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Mead posted...

good

fuck the right. Fuck em.

They aren't taking the real threat seriously.

The far left social media mob demonizes any dissent from the center and even left, pretending a supermajority exists where no majority exists at all. Meanwhile a true far right authoritarian state looms as that do everything possible to alienate the center, who seem to be the only sane faction left.

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