Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 146: Slaters Gonna Slate

(+) Yeah! (+)

Punk was awfully insistent on using "Harry Smith" instead of DH Smith, but then he turns around and has no problem using Chris Masters's fake name.

How odd.

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He's never spoken to Chris Masters, so he has no idea what his real name is.

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Harry is a fine name and Harry probably liked it over DH.

Chris Mordinsky(sp?) sounds bad and it should feel bad. I'm sure he much prefered going under Masters.

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Asked Wang this in the chat:

Rank the Punk segments.

Worked shoot > Signing > Negotiations

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Re-Debut > Signing > Negotiations > Worked Shoot

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JR/Lawler will rep raw and Cole will rep Smackdown, duh

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BretHart Bret Hart
Who says jean shorts are 20 years out of style? :b

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Bret Hart vs Cena for mania 32

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ESPN_Michelle Michelle Beadle
Kids: if you're not a @CMPunk fan, you will never know happiness. He rules. And I feel like a kid again!

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JaKyL25 posted...
Re-Debut > Signing > Negotiations > Worked Shoot

Wait really? Worked shoot last?

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It was incomplete!

It gets nostalgia cred because it happened first, and thus was by far the most shocking and jolting, but it didn't have nearly the substance to it that everything since has had.

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Well I have it first because it was the most shocking, yeah.

But it's also the only one that was so well-done that I genuinely thought was real and broke kayfabe. You can't put a price on that imo.

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Kind of impressed at such a pro-Punk reception in San Jose. I still expect the LA crowd to be heavily pro-Cena though.

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They didnt start pro punk, dude won them over over the course of the night.

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XIII_rocks posted...
Well I have it first because it was the most shocking, yeah.

But it's also the only one that was so well-done that I genuinely thought was real and broke kayfabe. You can't put a price on that imo.


Are you sure you just didn't genuinely think it was real... Because it was first? Obviously, anything after wouldn't have that that feeling. I don't think it necessarily has to do with it being better as much as... It was before it was an obvious angle.

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Jakyl is Wade Barrett, he looks at the bigger picture

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StealThisSheen posted...
Are you sure you just didn't genuinely think it was real... Because it was first? Obviously, anything after wouldn't have that that feeling. I don't think it necessarily has to do with it being better as much as... It was before it was an obvious angle.

Well all the other segments were with people. So if Punk had been shooting on the company in the ring with Vince during the negotiations like he did during the worked shoot...if it were real, a lot of stuff would have happened. As it was, Punk sitting on the entrance ramp just spouting off...yeah.

Tonight was crazy though.

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Anyone who thought any of this at any time was anything other than 100% work is incredibly naieve.

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just saw it again, and i love how you go from Punk's entrance where he's getting somewhat cheered, to Cena being the favorite - even with a quick HHH plug - followed by Punk turning that around in 2 minutes and having the whole place chant his name, loud.

and the shoot's either best or 2nd best. still gotta see this a few more times. but it coming first also matters to me there - sure if the negotiations came first maybe i'd have it in 1st, but much of the shock value from the 1st one is what created the 2nd, and some of it - most of it rather - wasn't that shocking anymore, just fun. tonight's was more serious than that, much closer to the 1st one, and it was from both Punk and Cena. it referenced how big a deal and how important it is for Punk to win, how Punk was right, and even made the quick turnaround fit into the storyline in a way that naturally works. tonight's was just great, in no small part because Cena was on fire.

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Vickie confirmed on twitter that her and Dolph have broken up

also, WadeBarrett Wade Barrett
The BBC are reporting that the London riots started after an impromptu street performance by this guy... http://yfrog.com/h7efrymhj

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SmartMuffin posted...
Anyone who thought any of this at any time was anything other than 100% work is incredibly naieve.

You should put me on your ignore list for being so naive

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Wade Barrett for UotY

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Bringing in the Rock Facebook promo and echoing the accusations from it leads back to the discussion that we had when it first hit.

Is The Rock correct? Is the character of John Cena in actuality a big phony?

We know Triple H is. We know The Rock is. We know CM Punk is, although he himself may not know it.

But I've always felt that the John Cena character deep down to its very core is legit, and that's where any moral high ground he was able to claim tonight comes from.

If I'm reading him incorrectly then we've got a very interesting situation on our hands. It's one thing to say that Cena is overrated and corny and unfairly pushed. It's another thing entirely to say that his entire persona is a facade created to GET those privileges.

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that's a bit off. it's more reasonable and logical (including with Punk's comparisons and arguments) to assume that, at one point, it was true. at the beginning he fought and clawed just like everyone else. it's that when he reached the top and the people on top liked it, he started taking advantage after advantage of it. it's not that he's created a facade as much as it's he's offered everything on a silver platter and can do what he pleases now that he doesn't need to try anymore. Punk has to bust his ass off and do whatever it takes to try to be put on the same level, and as Cena put it, he can lose it all at any given moment right now. Cena? doesn't matter. he's fine.

so Cena's self aware that he doesn't really need to do anything. he doesn't need to try because he's got it all already. and that's the phony part Punk hates.

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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

But then that would be a bit of a facade. 1/3 of Cena's mantra is "Hustle." If you're just resting on your laurels and counting on your marketability to keep you in the title picture on the rare occasions where things go badly, that's the opposite of Hustle!

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indeed! there's also no real respect involved there. Cena flat out told Punk there that really, he himself doesn't need to hustle anymore. but Punk does. there's a definite facade in there, but it's not one of him pretending to be something else, it's of him being something else from what he thinks of himself. and this self awareness does not agree with how he's been. in addition to that, since since he's given everything he wants and doesn't have to try, it means he can do things nobody else could and get away with it. he can do things nobody else can and get the okay after it's already been done. so while he can spout whatever idealistic views or sayings, he doesn't live by it anymore because he doesn't need to. he can instead get whatever he wants by just asking for it.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

If you want to go that route you can extend Cena's character way deeper. In essense he is metagaming the metagame That's like level 4 thinking going on. He at one point stood for his motto and then realized he didn't have to anymore. He plays it off like it's still what he is about but the metagamers see through it and know what he is really about. He sees it coming and is essentially all knowing of the situations going on all around him and is so ahead of the game he doesn't have to give a ****. Punk is not on that level, he is a level below it, but he has realized what is really going on, so he's working towards that level. He can't maintain that level because it is taking all he can do just to be in the spot he is at right now. He is the voice of the voiceless because he is the voice of those who are blind to the situation. Which makes things even crazier due to the running trend during this angle is that Punk keeps saying how he -can- see Cena.

Hell you can take it one MORE level by saying that Rock reached the same metagame plane that Cena is on now a long time ago and thats part of his issue with Cena. He sees what Punk sees and has seen it for a long time. Rock has known what Punk knows now, but had no real venue to say it. So he attacked Cena's character and his mannerisms to get people to take a real look at Cena. Now that Rock has someone else seeing what is going on he opens up and expands on whats going on with Cena, hence the facebook video they aired on Raw. It actually makes more sense if this is the way things are as it even explains why Rock is around in the capacity he is in. He left and passed the torch knowing he did what he had to in the business and there wasn't much left for him. He sits in the wings watching seeing what happens and he sees what is up with John Cena. When Cena evolved into Dynasty Cena Rock couldn't just sit around. So he comes back because he can't let someone so powerful (in all senses of the word here. Strentgh, metagame, pressense) to just run around unchecked. He goes into Mania to knock Cena down a peg, but he realizes that it's not enough. He wants things done at next Mania to put everything on a higher pedestal for everyone to see the whole thing. It gives him time to show the Millions the real story.



There is no way they went this deep intentionally, but everything fits really ****ing well

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Cena doesn't have a lot of friends and Hogan doesn't have a lot friends.

Well then.

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If I'm reading him incorrectly then we've got a very interesting situation on our hands. It's one thing to say that Cena is overrated and corny and unfairly pushed. It's another thing entirely to say that his entire persona is a facade created to GET those privileges.

Exactly right. If ever there was a pro wrestler that at least SEEMS not to be phony, it would be John Cena. Every time the Rock opens his mouth, it just makes me like Cena even more. Rock is completely doing this entire feud wrong. Of the millions of legitimate gripes and complaints against Cena, being "phony" is not one of them. Keep it simple, stupid. Rock should just come out, mock his mannerisms, and basically say "You're not a good wrestler, your promos are ripped off from me, and the only people who like you are women and kids" and leave all the "phony" stuff out of it, because, you know, glass houses and all.

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Melina was barred from the building.

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Maybe no one can believe that Cena is as virtuous as he is because of Hogan.

Imagine if there was another Superman before Superman that just completely abused the power, and was a real jerk about it, and eventually revealed that the only reason he did all those good things was because of the status it afforded him; that getting people to treat you like a god and do whatever you want out of obligation was more satisfying to his ego than using his incredible power to force them to do it under duress. His absolute power corrupted him absolutely. That's Hogan. Everyone eventually realized he was a jerk but they had no choice but to worship him because he was keeping legitimate threats at bay.

Then one day he leaves to go conquer some other planet and now years later another guy with the same superpowers comes along, and this guy is of the Clark Kent Superman mold--doing the right thing with his powers, not asking for anything, just basically being a good person even though he could potentially destroy everything or manipulate people the way the old guy did. But now, few people believe this guy is for real, because they lived through the last time it happened, and they think that inevitably such incredible power will corrupt, again.

tl;dr: Everyone thinks Cena is a phony because he's so far above everyone else power-level-wise that there's no way the power hasn't corrupted him in some fashion. The only possible guess people can make given Cena's actions is phoniness, because he's not giving them any outward negative traits to point to.

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Because really, how would it at all benefit Cena to keep up this persona that half the audience despises, for years, if it was all fake?

Last night when he did that mock-smark routine, he was pretty much saying that he is who he is and that's not gonna change, not even if it could bring him more fans (and thus more money). Actively telling half the audience that he will not change who he is just to appease them is quite the opposite of what a phony would do!

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That makes cena more heroic which is what everyone else despises about him!

Also, after a double take, how many casuals really fully understood this promo?

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That's what I worry about. I think the strengths of the Worked Shoot and the Contract Negotiations segment were that they didn't get SO "insider-y" that casuals couldn't at least follow the gist of what was happening.

Last night was INCREDIBLE from a character analysis standpoint where people like us can dissect the proceedings, but it was a LOT for casuals to digest all at once and definitely went into areas that would leave pure marks scratching their heads.

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Reactions I'm reading/hearing seem to indicate that the promo while great didn't sell the PPV, because it was so talk heavy, it just made you want to tune in to the next raw to see who won. rather than see the match.

Looks like its up to the smarks to buy a 4 match card, though we do know ahead of time we'll prolly get a good number of decent matchups.

I hope.

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- Booker T has announced that he will be hosting a WWE King of the Ring DVD later this month. He also announced that he would host the DVD as "KING BOOKAH."

WHAT THA HAYULL!?

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Didn't he get upset anytime Cole even mentioned KING BOOKAH?

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Yay! Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle on WWE DVDs!

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random late comment, but I cracked up when Ricardo did the forced cheap heat

*lots of spanish* losers *lots of spanish* San Jose Sharks *lots of spanish*

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so what do you think of puunk beating del rio and convincinngly. i fee thaat, at this point, it is alberttos destiny to job to punk after a cash in.

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For whatever reason I was thinking the opposite.

At the very end, Lawler closed the show by saying something along the lines of "Only one person will leave summerslam with the title". I then turned to my friend and said "but you already know that."

Then we get Rey/Del Rio 10.

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Nah, Summerslam will end with HHH having hand picked the champion through ref cheating, and probably pedigreeing the loser.

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The story of the match has changed so much :(

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That's a decent theory, GTM. It helps that Alberto has no really logicial Summerslam opponent, so he'll be out of sight and out of mind for the card, giving his appearance to cash in more impact.

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i cant see an easy transition from this to del rio without it being awkward or del rio being the corporate champ model.

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Del Rio's character seems too selfish and he seems too much of a loner to agree to be a corporate champ.

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Yeah, I don't think it WILL happen, but the traditional MitB cash-in setup is there.

EDIT: And if for some reason ADR was Triple H's chosen Corporate Champion, it would be very easy now for Trips to ensure that it happens. He would even be the nearest referee on hand for the cash-in!

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voltch posted...
Del Rio's character seems too selfish and he seems too much of a loner to agree to be a corporate champ.

yeah bu hes got CLASS and it gels well with his aristocrat character

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Would an aristocrat bow down to a king like HHH?

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Don't forget Triple H's roots as a Connecticut blueblood! He comes from aristocratic stock himself!

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