Board 8 > Etrian Odyssey 3 is a slow-paced grindfest with a boring, outdated battle system

(+) Yeah! (+)

why can I not stop playing this game argh

--
xyzzy

owned

--
i'm dumb as hell holy crap -ExThaNemesis

because it's a friggin' awesome game. story's compelling enough to make you keep playing, drawing the dungeon has a certain charm and level of immersion, the music's good, the sailing is great, you get a real sense of discovery and danger (especially later on) in the game.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

there's a story? so far it's just 'go explore this dungeon'!

--
xyzzy

there is indeed! you'll get to it, and it plays an important role as you progress. EO3 was different than the other ones in a couple ways. besides being better balanced, the sailing, a couple new additions, it also has some extra perks/features too it that aren't in earlier games (they aren't *really* spoilers, and mostly are in the manual, but i won't tell you if you don't want to know).

the big charm though definitely comes from the sense of adventuring you feel. map making, editing your map, finding paths, little things like that. even the storyline available is 100% the viewpoint of where you stand and are. did you play either of the earlier games? 'cause if not then honestly you aren't gonna go back to 'em as it's impossible. the manual also gave a couple details that matter later on if you read it, but if not that's okay too.

and battles will speed up as you get stronger and unlock some stuff.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

that was all true in EO1 (which I did play), and I found that pretty boring. dunno why I like this one.

--
xyzzy

better, more unique classes and balance might play a big role to it. EO1 had major problems with some classes that utterly sucked and others that were overpowered. 2 had similar issues, only in exchange of some better balance tweaks it had some overlap too much. 3 really fixed it all there. Princess is something that from the start seems like she might be very useful and grows at it with her regen skills and later defense changing techs/spells. Monk might be a "cleric" but he sure can beat the crap out of things too. Gladiator's your standard warrior and actually good this time around. Hoplite can deal some pretty nice damage for a good while and when she eventually gets outclassed there (it's the tank class after all) she can do some really awesome tricks. Buccaneer is one of those 'how can i hate this class' types for me. partially because i went with a hot blond for one granted, but she also works in either row, has high speed, good damage output, and some pretty fancy stuff too that just comes naturally (higher crit rates, extra attacks). Zodiacs are mages and actually good early on, Wildings are a bit harder to use but have tremendous perks to 'em, Arbalists are friggin' awesome powerhouses, Ninjas are speedy and do a lot of random tricks but less output, Farmers... actually kinda suck, but DO have their uses too with status effects, gathering stuff, and saving your ass big time with lowering/canceling encounters.


pretty much, every class is in some way or another viable. some more than others, but even if it seems like they won't you'll get to unlock stuff that makes them awesome all over again. this kind of game really needs to make sure the balance early on between the classes aren't that bad, and if you started with something like a standard mage/warrior/healer mix in the earlier ones.... you had a rough ass time. this time? it's solid, and you've got two different types of healers.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

(and yes i type a lot on this game. honestly might be my favorite one on the DS.)

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

this game is gud

--
You have not heard the last of me...
And you never will...

okay so I've got a back-row ninja. is it worth putting her in the front row? I'm worried she'll get eaten alive and I don't have a resurrect spell yet. I have a hoplite and can defend her a little but some randoms just one-shot me straight up. the game is too punishing to really try to max damage. just making money is a huge undertaking.

--
add the c and back away
iphonesience

I use my ninja in the front row and may put her in the back depending on the battle.

Sometime soon you might want to make some farmers to gather items. They even have a safe walk technique that allows them to go so many steps without having to deal with enemies.

--
You have not heard the last of me...
And you never will...

ha

--
Vote for this guy in every contest: Sess

What I really like about 3 is that you actually get exp from quests. I don't know why that makes such a big difference to me but it is awesome and made me want to do every quest. The story gets pretty interesting. You will be forced to make a choice at one point, affecting the story and also affecting which bosses you'll face as well as the ending. There is also a true ending that you can get if you do everything right (although it's not recommended on your first playthrough as it gives you the toughest final boss). The FULL story was definitely compelling enough for me to get all 3 endings just to see the whole picture. Postgame is pretty fun too and the optional bosses require a ton of careful planning (grinding is needed to some degree, but it's more about how you set up your party.) Sailing and sea quests are awesome too. My party kicks ass and I still haven't beat the last sea boss or the postgame boss >_< (and all the other optional bosses are now a cakewalks to me)

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

i'm not sure where you are, but if somethign just one shot you on the first floor... ...was it a cat? Lynx is the first floor 'oh ****' monster because it hurts.

the 2nd floor however i HATED with a passion. green birds. those ****ing green birds were borderline FOEs. to avoid them, come at night, as they only come out during the day. once you've got a couple levels you'll be fine. in exchange from them you'll get some monsters that can cause status effects, but you can actually kill them. unlike the green birds that had me warping out when daybreak hit to avoid 'em. they're the first real lesson of "watch out where you are and don't be afraid to run." every floor has something like that, and i wish they bumped them up to the 3rd because they were the biggest pains even through the 4th. x.x


making money will be very easy soon. early on it's pretty easy actually - Farmers' base skill is basically a 'gather from anything' one, they increase enemy drops, and they can reduce/eliminate encounters. without a farmer it's a bit harder, but a lot of grinding will do you well. just don't be afraid to warp out every so often early on. a ninja can help with this too:

- back row is probably better if you want to escape as that escape skill will save you some cash. i assume you've got a 2/3 or a 3/2 setup with the ninja as the variable? ninjas can also clone themselves, and that's the easy reason why a back row ninja works. unfortunately the status effect line kinda suck on it early on, and only work if you REALLY dedicate the team in some way to inflict status effects. otherwise ignore that tree entirely. focus on the clones and the knife techniques (the status effects from the knife tree are much better, petrification's as good as a kill and binding legs helps a lot). also put a point into the escape skill so you can have that on you. but clones, all the way, are your bread and butter as a ninja.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

...double checked, was off a bit. it's not the farmer's base skill to harvest like that, but it's definitely theirs. farmers also have a revive skill if you're interested in one, though only doable outside of battle. they also make camps much better with just 1 point in that. it is 100% a utility class but it has so much that they carry value through the end of the game. i started with 1 and was so surprised that i kept her through post game in my main party.

and it's a straight 0 encounters too. people actually do runs with 5 farmers, set 0 encounters, and go nuts gathering stuff in order to make money. and the cap is like 20 or 30 characters so you'll never really run out.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

yeah it's those birds. I've touched the l3 exit but warped out with that ninja skill. just hit level 7. I thought I was just lucky not getting them at night - good to know.

--
add the c and back away
iphonesience

And yes, cloning is awesome. Even though I can only make lower level shadow clones, some of the FOEs will still spend half the battle trying to hit it instead of my part members.

--
You have not heard the last of me...
And you never will...

transcience posted...
okay so I've got a back-row ninja. is it worth putting her in the front row? I'm worried she'll get eaten alive and I don't have a resurrect spell yet. I have a hoplite and can defend her a little but some randoms just one-shot me straight up. the game is too punishing to really try to max damage. just making money is a huge undertaking.

What I did to get money was to make a party of 4 farmers and a monk. I just focused on the farmers' gathering skills (the one that gives you more gathers in all 3 categories as well as one that makes you more likely to get rare items) and just walked to gathering points. Any enemies that were likely to kick my ass, I'd run from and then heal out of battle.

Once you finish the 2nd stratum, something will happen (without spoiling anything) that will allow you to have more options. By the end of the game, I was able to hit up all 3 item points in the 6th stratum in 2 trips (because I would max out my inventory in the first trip) and on average, 40-55% of the items I got were rare and I would usually only get attacked 2-3 times, which I was able to run from easily because I was using my main party monk who was high leveled (my farmers would probably get their asses handed to them in the mid-late 2nd stratum but still managed to farm in the 6th thanks to the monk and the "more options" occurrence I mentioned before). You can also make lots of money by getting conditional rare drops from bosses, FOEs and sea bosses. The EO3 board has sticky topics about it.

As for front row ninja, I never really tried it, but evasion is their best way of avoiding death. Bunshin is very useful too (Even if the "original ninja" is killed, it is counted as the copy being killed, so as long as there is one still alive, your ninja is still alive).

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

Bunshin is fantastic. unlike the shadow clones, that skill of "if the ninja dies it explodes in fiery death" applies to it, and it hurts. they also can use skills like the original, so it's really like 10 TP to have 2 party members. only if 1 dies it's okay. and sicne the clone can use skills, you can actually use 1 ninja to create 4 party members in 2 turns. never got shadow clones past LV3 because of that. seemed like a waste, though early on i can definitely see uses for it as the HP's good on it, and if the shadow's in the front row you can laugh. >__>;

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

transcience posted...
yeah it's those birds. I've touched the l3 exit but warped out with that ninja skill. just hit level 7. I thought I was just lucky not getting them at night - good to know.

yeah no one ever doesn't have trouble with those at first. I grinded until the lynxes were a f***ing joke and the birds were still too risky to fight. There were only 3 normal enemies in the game that were a serious pain in the ass and always a threat when I fought them at normal levels. Those birds, an enemy you won't have access to until after the 4th stratum (and they're in an optional area) and a 6th stratum enemy, so once you get past the birds, you shouldn't have too much trouble with anything that's not a foe or a boss for a while.

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

Because JRPGs are the best. It saddens me how few there are these days compared to the past.

--
http://i54.tinypic.com/2qbudr7.gif
http://myanimelist.net/signature/RyanSaotome.png

yeah ninja clones are amazing. You can actually find videos on youtube of solo ninjas doing things that would make you think the game broke...

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

alright, started working on clones. I opened up the shortcuts on level 2 so I can probably get to 3 soon. I need more heals, argh. items cost too much to buy. hell, I can't even buy equipment.

--
add the c and back away
iphonesience

What's your party? Prince's passive healing skills have been great to me early on. That way my monk only really worries about healing during battle.

--
You have not heard the last of me...
And you never will...

I dunno their names - the attacker, the tank, the monk, the ninja and the black mage type. with games like this, I always pick a party and only use those five guys because I feel like I'm wasting time if I get exp for guys I'm not going to use. I have no idea if these guys are good right now. my tank doesn't seem to absorb damage any better than anyone else unless I use all of those skills.

--
xyzzy

man why can't this game be cheap

--
"Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane

tank = Hoplite
Monk = Monk
Black mage = Zodiac
Attacker = Gladiator
Ninja = Ninja

the guys you're using are fine. and you're right on the tank right now - he's not taking that much more than any other right now. a little more HP and defense but that's it. in exchange however, he can hit as hard as your attacker can. i assume he's got a shield too as that's a must. as he levels up you'll grow to notice he has more HP and defense than the rest, and isn't hitting as hard. early on he's just as good an attacker, but as he grows he becomes very much so a tank that's capable of heavy damage too. really nice development.


as for wasting time or whatever, you aren't. just like in EO1, if down the road you feel like your skill selection was poor you can Rest 'em, they go down by 5 levels, and you can re-allocate their skills. or you can retire them once they hit LV30 or so, and you'll get a new recruit at half their level of whatever class you want. since EXP is done on a curve based on your level they'll catch up REAL quick.


i do hope you're selling the items which the enemies drop, and are mindful that it caps at 60 items. without using Farmers or putting points in gathering stuff (Take/Chop/Mine) then you're gonna have some minor trouble with item creation and money as those sell really well consistently.

but don't worry about money too much. soon you'll unlock sailing, and THAT can get you money real nicely. you just need to get higher for it to unlock.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

as for some small tips...

- Gladiator can go sword or club really, but as you'll note Club hits harder and generally has better techs. there's nothing wrong with the sword though, it's just that Nine Smasher has the potential to being really deadly, and the chances of binding/confusion are actually pretty good and cheap (especially the arm bind).

- Zodiac should definitely focus on just getting each elemental LV1 and everything related in the Dark Ether tree. Dark Ether gets you the chance for your Monk to heal more and everyone else to wreck face better as the Zodiac will pay 10TP for your entire front row. Ether Mastery pumps you up, Singularity stacks with it, and you can focus on Meteor later on. not early game as you simply don't have the TP for it (or the elemental coverage).

- and yes it's okay for your Monk to be front row. he can hit hard.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

..also almost forgot the skill even existed but uh...

the base ninja skill says they can do full damage front he back row. easy to forget thing as the side effect is a much bigger deal - it lowers TP consumption by 1 point. meaning as you level that up, your Ninja's TP should be conserved quite a bit. it's hard for a high level ninja to run out of TP. but with just 1 point in it, there is almost no reason you should ever run a front row ninja.


--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

okay playthrough topic time

- gladiator is focusing on sword. I don't feel right if my main attacker isn't using a sword. he's got a couple skill techs, including one that hits random characters (rush, I think), and that's working out alright.

- yeah, my tank is doing equal to my gladiator right now. that's why it feels so weird. here I picked these classes and so far they split into attacker-healer-mage. he's been focusing on

-my monk does unusually high damage for a back row guy. way more than my ninja. definitely my best guy when you combine it with my heals. unfortunately I've pimped out my heal stat so i could get some multiheals and the end result is a limited number of heals since they're like 10-11mp each. trying to get resurrect now.

- zodiac has been pimping fire and nothing else so far. I now have a fire tech that hits all. fire was wrecking the lynx and also some kind of plant thing, so I was content to just pick an element and go for that hard, at least for the beginning.

- ninja's best use thus far has been that skill to go back to the last stairs. I don't want to waste money on items that warp you out because that csts money that I don't have. otherwise he's been like a really crappy red mage - some skill techs, low damage, low life, just crappy.

- I've done some sailing. I got the 8 movement item and then got a fishing net but so far it doesn't pay out well at all. it costs 120 and on a good day I get 90-100 en back. right now I'm trying to get into a lighthouse without some jackass bird destroying my ship.

--
xyzzy

swords are generally more reliable and more focused on random encounters. clubs hit harder and are single target focused, so it's fine as a result.

fire is fine, but you probably shouldn't focus on leveling it up that much; the class bonus and singularity are MUCH better at increasing the damage than putting more points into Fire, and they have the benefit of not jacking the TP up.

and yes, ninjas initially suck. daggers help, but if you never put the point into the class skill then that'd also explain why he's sucking ass. with a point in that, some clone work and dagger stuff, he can start dealing real damage. LV3 in daggers gets you some offensive skills that can bind or petrify, just 1 point will help a ton for making him hit harder.


also 8 movement will not get you to the lighthouse. you need a couple more things to do that, and then sailing becomes money time.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

iirc you need to find a way to reach the back of the lighthouse island

you will then be able to fight that jackass bird. It has a conditional drop that you can make good early money with, but I don't think anyone in your party can get it unless you switch to clubs for your gladiator but I think you have the right idea with swords, plus I've had both and I like swords better. Nine Smashes missed too often and the multi-hit sword skill was more consistent. I'd recommend the 4 farmer + 1 monk item gathering party (you don't even really need to level them up right now. I actually used a separate monk than my main party monk just because I'm really OCD about my main party's level/exp being even >_>).

Right now you are definitely better off focusing on elemental stuff with the zodiac. Etheric Charge and Singularity are important too. I didn't start using Meteor until I was high levelled and had retired to a new Zodiac.

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

are you still unemployed

if yes, that's the answer!


--
ICON:
When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set Bidoof on fire.

just checked - Ether Mastery pretty much doubles Fire Mastery (or any individual element for that matter) in terms of the bonus it gives to your spell. Singularity is big, ditto for Dark Ether which you'll definitely want to max out (and you need to in order to get Singularity anyway). those two will really improve your elemental damage and not make the TP drain so painful. also a LV5 Fire Star is a bit stronger than a LV1 Fire Prophecy, with 6 and 2 being the same. from there the latter takes off better, but if you're focusing on getting the higher level magic, don't. stick to the initial spell because it's cheaper and you don't have the skill points right now. would cost you 15 to get Prophecy, but only 6 to get to LV5 Fire Star - putting 5 of those into Ether Mastery would net you about the same as a maxed out fire mastery.

Zodiacs aren't totally fixed from the way they treat mages, with their formula issues, but they can definitely wreck face. you just have to mind your skill points and be aware that in their case, the higher level spell is later for good reason.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

job interview Wednesday!

I've started to work on ether mastery. I hit level 3 finally but I can't get far before running out of heals. I need to finish more quests.

--
add the c and back away
iphonesience

I have been thinking of playing this game, but I have not yet pulled the trigger on it.

--
Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104
Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.

...hm. i'd say try going around the lower floors a bit more and hunt for items more than anything else. at LV... what, 8? with your team in general you should be able to run around the 1st and 2nd floor good. do some exploring as there's a lot of chests around and shortcuts that you can do. just enter at night so you can get most of your luck there.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

yeah. there was a guy looking for some items that I have to find. time to go level 2 hunting.

I always want to press my luck against a FOE.

--
xyzzy

note that some of these items are probably gathering point stuff. so you're gonna need someone with chop/mine/take. of your party the one who has the most points that are expendable it's probably the Hoplite and then the Gladiator. definitely not the Zodiac, Monk, or Ninja (first 2 just need 'em, Ninja needs 'em to become good). Hoplite also has some room to learn something right now - a front row Monk/Gladiator/Hoplite is pretty solid. you can also make the Monk back row if you want but as you'll note, you don't have to. try it out at least, when your ninja becomes worthwhile you can put him in the back again as he'll be showing some good use of techs for cheap. also worth noting that a Bunshin clone will activate any of those "when an ally dies, ___" skills, and i'm pretty sure both Monk and Gladiator have something for it (TP and HP respectively?), so you'll have a combo on your hands later (especially combined with a bunshin clone that explodes on death).

for the Hoplite: 1 point in Bodyguard will get you all you need for it right now. ignore the Anti elemental spells right now. Line guards are good. the Guardian skill from the class is a really good reduction all around worth noting too. but if you need gathering points, it's a fine class to put stuff in as you don't need them as much as the rest. Gladiator can use for some techs, but don't forget about Stun Attack as it's really good of a skill. ditto for Charge as you can use it followed by another tech in the next turn for a really nice bonus. just remember that for things that hit multiple times (not targets - pretty sure the latter gets the bonus) it'd only boost the first one though.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

okay. I got a farmer, gathered some stuff, finished some quests. problem is, my farmer is currently taking the place of my ninja so the end result isn't as lucrative as it should be due to the inn costing 40-45 en. still, I got *some* stuff and I'm slooowly progressing. l3 is still kinda tough to reach but with each level I get another heal spell which lets me move on. plus I'm finishing quests and those are easy exp.

now I just need to figure out where to go when sailing.

--
xyzzy

yeah, definitely do the lighthouse. you're plenty leveled for it.

basic idea is you need to go around a couple of the islands that you can get to, face 'em, see if anything is there, and repeat this cycle for a bit. when you get there, you'll get to fight a relatively easy boss and can get some decent drops for it, EXP, and equipment. you more than passed the levels so i'd definitely recommend seeing if you can do that.

have you gotten the Ceder yet? sheep cheese or raisen? if so then you should be good to go.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

dude like I said, you gotta make a multi-farmer party. If I wasn't clear, all they do is gather. When they've gathered all they can, you switch back to your normal party and go do normal party activities until the farmers can gather again. You're not really wasting exp because you pretty much run from fights unless you took the time to level up the farmers a few times against f1 enemies to get them some more skill points (which is worth it, but not absolutely necessary). Make sure you find all shortcuts too (I had access to maps so I knew where to look, which is also worth doing). 5 farmer (or as I would recommend, 4 farmer+monk) parties give you more gathering and since you don't need to level them up (and you don't have main party members spiking up your average level), inn trips with them are cheaper.

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

the boat thing was so much more fun than the actual game

--
"Biting is excellent- it's like kissing only there's a winner."

yes I know. I just wanted to grab one and continue to level my other guys. I don't like breaking games in silly ways like that.

--
add the c and back away
iphonesience

honestly you don't even need to worry too much about it, but a backup farmer right now might be useful. you probably won't need to do this later on though. it's just needed for some quests to have someone who can gather, and while your hoplite or gladiator certainly can do it (i distinctly remember my hoplite had points in all 3), a farmer just does it easier.

soon as you get to fighting the bird though you'll have an easy time with money, equipment, and the sailing will start reaping in better stuff. hell i think i basically went from one boss to 3 via sailing once i got it down, and my equipment was so pimped out at that point i was awesome.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Dark Spire was 100% a game designed in every possible way to be from 1990. there was even a retro mode for it that gave you a wireframe instead. ...never beat that game either. forgot why i stopped as i was actually enjoying it, might've gotten stuck or frustrated at one point, moved on to a different game, and didn't look back. that though was extremely designed for a certain kind of person, a lot in the same way Wizardry still exists for them. thankfully the EO series is better, kinder, and a lot more interesting.

--
The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

transcience posted...
yes I know. I just wanted to grab one and continue to level my other guys. I don't like breaking games in silly ways like that.

It's not breaking the game. It was designed to encourage that type of thought process... otherwise they wouldn't let you have 20+ people in your guild >_>

--
ya right you are case the sunglasses have 3d so i can see right threw their clothes -ertyu
(about wearing sunglasses to stare at boobs without girls noticing)

how did the japanese get the license for wizardry anyway? was it just... never trademarked or some nonsense

--
"Biting is excellent- it's like kissing only there's a winner."