Board 8 > Ginhyun ranks most of the Team Fortress 2 maps; no one cares [TF2]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Because I really don't have much to do right now. Anyway, I'll be excluding arena maps because I don't play arena. I don't really have anything against the mode, but it's not something I actively seek out and it doesn't generally appear on normal rotation servers.

As a surprise bonus, I'll also be excluding two other maps from the ranking!

KOTH_Badlands- I have not played this, and I actually forgot it existed until I looked up the list of maps. It was introduced in the Hatless update. It's very similar to the arena version of Badlands, I believe, which I vaguely remember as being "alright". I think I may have seen this pop up once or twice as an option when voting for the next map. I don't think I have ever actually voted for it. Exciting!

PLR_Nightfall- It's a PLR map! I've played it maybe twice! It has an alpine theme! I don't remember hating it, so it's probably okay?

Anyway, with that out of the way, that leaves 36 official maps. That's 30 more than TF2 launched with. Whoa. And that's not including arena maps and those two maps up there. First ranking soon...expect the first few rankings to be pretty negative because there are a few really bad maps.

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Ginhyun
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tag

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Tag

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36. CP_Junction- Junction was added to the game during the scout update, where it was described as a “Gravel-Pit style map”. This is akin to dumping beans and salsa into a puddle of vomit and calling it a “Mexican-style entree”. Junction is absolutely horrendous from a gameplay perspective, and it’s not even interesting to look at. It’s tiny and cramped and C is an absolute ***** to take. Snipers are pretty much useless here, since there’s basically no long range encounters (and barely any medium range encounters, for that matter). There’s also pretty much no vertical space to speak of. It’s just a ****ing terrible spammy mess from start to finish.

I cannot believe Valve actually put this in the game as an official community map. The fact that someone got paid for…this…is just unbelievable to me.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: Point C is memorable, but not in a good way. It’s incredibly easy to defend, as a few engineers can lock it down pretty handily. And that telephone booth of a point you have to stand in has an opening at the top, allowing grenades to be spammed in through there. It’s an absolute death trap for the attackers.

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Ginhyun
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35. PL_Hoodoo- If the creator of Hoodoo started making his map with the goal of creating a worse Gold Rush, he succeeded admirably. Hoodoo is even more chokepoint-filled, and as a result incredibly defensively biased. The map is narrow and linear, and thus, very spammy. There are a few alternate routes, but half the time it feels like they’re not even worth bothering with.

Stage 2 is ridiculously hard to win on offense unless you completely outclass the defending team. Everything after the first checkpoint is complete hell for attackers, and it used to be worse. The balcony near the first point used to be rotated to face toward the defenders, meaning anyone attempting to clear it of sentries had to turn his back toward the defending team.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: That bomb is kinda neat I guess.

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Ginhyun
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CP_Junction is fun to run around as Pyro, because of all its corners and tight corridors, but that's about it. Point C is the f***ing WORST.

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It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

koth_harvest best

actually no

my 115 killing spree as sniper on nucleus was the best thing ever

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Junction is a miserable map. Good call.

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34. TC_Hydro- Poor Hydro. Poor, forgotten Hydro. You can tell by listening to the developer commentary that they were incredibly excited about this map. It ended up a dismal failure.

Part of the reason for its failure is the bizarre spawn time that wasn’t fixed until 2010-- the spawn time became quicker as the map went on, until it became nearly instant respawn. This is why Hydro often ended in a quick rush or a stalemate, since defending got easier the longer the match went on. They fixed this in 2010 and gave a spawn time advantage to a team that started capping, but it was too late to save the map at that point.

The thing is, even with the spawn time fixed, Hydro just isn’t a particularly good map. Map design consisting of open areas connected by one or two chokepoints is a bit dull. The gameplay is generally just pushing through the one or two chokepoints provided, and that gets boring rather quickly.

Oh, and the final round where one sides defends is pretty much a joke; attackers always win in less than a minute unless they all simultaneously misplace their keyboards.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: The game type! Only official TC map in the game, right here. The points are generally pretty memorable—the radar dish in particular is the part of the map that immediately comes to mind when thinking about Hydro.

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Ginhyun
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I think Hydro is an underrated map (In that I think it's mediocre, not dismal), and I think TC has a lot of potential as a map type if given the right treatment. Nobody wants their map to be the next Hydro, though, so nobody tries.

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NOTHING clears out servers like Hydro coming up in rotation.

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It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

Hydro needs a gritty reboot. The concept isn't terrible.

Seems like every games ends in a steamroll though.

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I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
Now this is entertainment!

Eh, Hydro's way above those bottom two, but I don't much care for it. The Radar Dish to Power Plant stage is pretty terrible-- one chokepoint with a pit in the middle.

The layout is a bit strange-- it feels like there's a bunch of wasted space around the points that should have been reallocated to the connecting areas. I dunno.

EDIT: Oh, and I agree that the concept of TC isn't bad at all. A shame it'll probably never get a second chance.

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Ginhyun
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Good ranking until Hydro... that map was so good the first two months of the game, I guess you wouldn't understand if you weren't there

tagging this
Agree with rankings so far. I leave any server that goes to Junction of Hoodoo. Dear god they're defensive cluster****s.
Hydro is interesting. I saw this one video awhile back explaining why it was so unbalanced. It's unbalanced in the sense that 66% of the map combination result in an advantage for RED. The rest are even stalemates. Regardless of what happens, BLU is ****ed. Can't find it though :/ I find Hydro fun for like...2 matches then it goes boring. At least it looks cool.

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foolmo, we're both Primeval Warriors. I was there. Anyway, next up, a pick that might be controversial. I dunno.


33. KOTH_Viaduct: My friend and I often referred to this as the “Go demo and win” map. I know there’s a few people who hate the demoman enough to feel that applies to every map, but it works especially well on Viaduct. This is because there are no alternate flanking routes-- everything funnels you through the area with the point, which makes the map pretty spam-friendly. The lack of flanking routes also makes it difficult to get to any snipers, especially if the enemy team is currently holding the point.

Granted, it gets better with lower player counts, but it’s still pretty bad. Bad enough that I've seen the sydney sleeper used in a high level match, just because getting jarateed on a spammy map like this is pretty much a death sentence. I’m not a huge fan of King of the Hill in general, but this map is the worst when it comes to that gametype.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: It’s snowy (which tends to be an FPS killer). Also, those sniper catwalks, I guess.

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Ginhyun
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Hoodoo not last? It's enough to make me think I haven't ever played Junction.

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Tag. However, the fact that Barnblitz hasn't been on the list yet is a bit disappointing.

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You were good until Viaduct.

Viaduct isn't even the worst KOTH map.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
You were good until Viaduct.

Viaduct isn't even the worst KOTH map.

I'm curious as to what you think is the worst KOTH map. I think I know, since I remember playing with you on a certain KOTH map, and you seemed to be having a bad time.

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Ginhyun
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Nucleus.

It's just such a freaking mess everywhere. It requires no strategy whatsoever. It's basically death match, which makes sense because it was at first an arena match.

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I love Nucleus!

As a Deathmatch map, which is what I treat it as. Picking off people with Scout is so easy.

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Oh, I like playing it too, no doubt. It's mindless fun every so often.

But it's still awful map design.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Nucleus.

It's just such a freaking mess everywhere. It requires no strategy whatsoever. It's basically death match, which makes sense because it was at first an arena match.

Yep, that's what I thought. You're not gonna agree with its position on this list.

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Ginhyun
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Hydro is the worst, but Junction is a close second, and Hoodoo is also horrible. I like Viaduct, though.

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32. CP_DegrootKeep:

I won’t deny this can be pretty fun at times. However, the map gets stale faster than any other due to its small size and unique ruleset. Melee and bows only is interesting only for short periods of time, as melee combat has never been a particular strength of TF2.

The final point provides a good example of some of the problems with melee in TF2. Standing in a corner on this final point makes it hard for a group of enemies to take you down, as melee will not register if you are clipping into an ally.

Anyway, not much else to say. This map is just for laughs, and part of me wants to rank it higher. However, it gets old pretty fast.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: That rock. The one that allows you to launch yourself on to the battlements as demoknight by charging at it. Flying through that air by charging at that rock is fun, and it’s pretty much the only reason I’ve played Degroot Keep recently. Oh, and the chat filter. You can tell the devs had some fun with that.

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Ginhyun
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Degroot should be top 5 <_<

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Emporer_Kazbar posted...
I think Hydro is an underrated map (In that I think it's mediocre, not dismal), and I think TC has a lot of potential as a map type if given the right treatment. Nobody wants their map to be the next Hydro, though, so nobody tries.

There was a 24/7 Hydro server I played almost exclusively on last summer. Just straight vanilla Hydro with some character caps. It regularly got 24-32 people and it was always fun. Left it for a while after.

It's dead now and the last time I played Hydro, there were six Engies on each team camping the **** out of every chokepoint. It suuuuuucked. Hydro <3, but if that's how other people see it when they join, I feel so sorry for you.

And Nucleus <3. It's definitely the worst straight KOTH map, but it's pure unbridled fun to play. If I see a friend or a favorite on Nucleus, I will join as fast as I can. I just love running around playing deathmatch. It's easily the least-win focused map.

Like Hydro, there are times when it can be the worst camping experience ever, but 90% of the time it's just people killing people. There's a point in there somewhere, but who cares?

Degroot is fun, but only because it's melee only. I love melee only, despite it's flaws. If they ever release any other melee-only maps, I feel Degroot will quickly fall into the worst of that group.

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Another controversial pick, maybe.

31. PL_GoldRush- It’s probably the most popular map in the game, but I don’t like it. It’s incredibly linear and overall very predictable in terms of how things are going to play out. It often feels like I’m just kinda going through the motions when I’m playing this map.

The map is too friendly sniper-friendly on defense, as the areas that are good positions for snipers are right next to the areas that are good for sentries. Point 2-2 is more difficult to capture than it ought to be, as it offers at least three viable sentry spots and is not too far from the defenders’ spawn.

Overall, not a very good map. Also, it feels very much like they started with Dustbowl as a base, and then tried converting it into a payload map. It was Valve’s first attempt at payload, so I don’t blame them for trying to take advantage of Dustbowl's popularity.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: The sniper balcony on the last point of stage 3 comes to mind, mainly because it took me a while to realize you could climb the boxes and stuff on the right to get up there. Overall I’d say the last point is actually a lot more interesting than Dustbowl’s last point, so they did a good job there. Too bad the rest is much worse.

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Ginhyun
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I always forget which one Gold Rush is. Probably because I dislike playing it so much.

I do love me some GoldRush.

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what is that one I played on a few times that you guys described as a death match and told me never to play on it?

nvm, IIRC it is called 2fort. is that going to be on the list?

Yeah, how is 2fort not on here yet?

At least Nucleus ends within five-ten minutes. 2fort can go on forever.

2fort should be on the list... pretty soon

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_foolmo_
'I love you so much' - SineNomine

I love Gold Rush's first map, and hate its other two. Overall, it's alright, but not great, IMO.

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I hate the last point of Goldrush stage 3, attacking.

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From: Mega Mana | #036
how is 2fort not on here yet?

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30. CTF_2fort- 2fort has a special place in my heart. It’s where I got half my taunt kill achievements, after all! There’s no denying it’s a bad map. I don't think I even need to go into why. It’s cramped, and a single sentry right outside spawn can shut down access to the majority of the base. I can appreciate the history behind the map, but it just doesn’t fit well into TF2.

There is something curious about the map though. For whatever reason, it attracts some of the worst players in TF2. This makes it pretty much to go-to map to get some of those achievements you wouldn’t be able to get against competent players (Deep Undercover, taunt kills). It also makes it something of a go-to map for screwing around, as a lot of players don’t seem to care about the objective anyway. This is a map where you can be decently successful going punching heavy or taunting after every kill. I’ve done both of these (once or twice while drunk).

I don’t know why it seems to bring in the lowest common denominator, but you can definitely tell the difference between a 2fort server and a rotation server that just happened to switch to 2fort. It’s kind of incredible.

Unique/Interesting/Memorable features: The battlements, of course. Sniping all day, every day.


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Ginhyun
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I agree; 2fort is a bad map, but there's a goof-off factor it has that makes it great when you're in the mood to play non-seriously. One thing I love doing on 2fort is going Huntsman sniper and sneaking up on people entering our front door to taunt kill them from behind. So much fun.

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I can't for the life of me understand 2fort's enduring popularity. It has always been the go-to map for every player since the dawn of Team Fortress and I have always hated it. It wasn't good in TFC, it's not good now. Makes no freakin' sense to me. It really does attract terrible players, too. Nobody on 2fort ever knows how to play or has any clue about completing the level's objective - which is probably for the better because it's easily the most difficult map to complete the objective on anyway. No CTF map is more defense-friendly.

It can be fun to goof off on but only if everyone else is goofing off on it. On some rotation servers we just go melee only when it comes up because everyone hates it, and that can be a lot of fun.

I actually loved 2Fort in TFC. But I was much younger, so maybe that has something to do with it.

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Sounds like 2fort touched you in a bad place.

But yes, it's pretty much free period when you're on 2fort. Completing the objective is nearly impossible.

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Capturing the flag on 2fort probably requires either a huge disparity in competence, or an agreement not to use Engineers. If two good teams played each other on 2fort I'm fairly certain it would take a major defensive f***-up for anyone to ever score a point.

All the KOTH maps should be at the bottom imo (after hydro), easily the worst gametype after arena. Sawmill is the best KOTH map but its CTF version is pretty terrible, I expect to see that soon.

Payload race is also pretty bad, hope pipeline and the others show up soon as well. Goldrush this low is a travesty though, that map is great.

You've got 2fort where it belongs (though I admit it's where I got most of my sniping practice!). Nucleus and Harvest really should show up soon.

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The way 2fort inevitably ends up working is, given Sentries in the control room and a Pyro or something dedicated to Spy checking, the only way you're taking the flag is an utter team bum rush. Which is kind of fun <_<

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Not to mention that if by some miracle you DO get the flag, the only way out of the base is two narrow corridors that will be spammed to oblivion.

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Now this is entertainment!

Bonking this

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