Board 8 > Falling home prices should not be considered a bad thing.

(+) Yeah! (+)

They were ridiculously high to begin with when you adjust for inflation, and hopefully they drop even further so that people will be able to actually afford buying/renting a place to live.

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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

They're bad for the people who already bought them, since it means their equity is going down but they're still saddled with the mortgage.

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House prices are the media's favourite scaremongering tool, because whatever happens they can spin it to be a disaster.

If they go up, everyone's homeless. If they go down, everyone's poor. If they stay the same, it's because illegal immigrants are making the neighbourhood undesirable!

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LOLContests posted...
They were ridiculously high to begin with when you adjust for inflation, and hopefully they drop even further so that people will be able to actually afford buying/renting a place to live.

It's good for people who currently can't afford houses I guess, but bad for everyone else, and not a good indicator for the economy

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Basically, my girl's mom bought a house at the top of the market and got absolutely screwed when the value of her house plummeted to 35% of what she paid for it. $400,000 that she had in equity suddenly vanished.

It really sucks when something you paid a ton for becomes worthless.

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

What if you plan on living in your house forever and not selling it?

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The problem is that we're monetizing basic resources like shelter. Should people who just want a roof over their head be held hostage by those wanting to make money off of their house?

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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

shelter cost someone something to build. How can you afford to build something if you will give it away for free?

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Agreed.

As someone who doesn't own a home right now, I hope they fall another 50% so I can buy one for a lot cheaper.

When food prices rise, everyone complains. When gas prices rise, everyone complains. When clothing prices rise, everyone complains. When the price of owning a home rises, everyone celebrates. WTF?

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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"When the price of stock rises, everyone celebrates. WTF?"

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

How can you afford to build something if you will give it away for free?

Because it's your home. If you can't afford to move, don't move. If you were using the house as equity, well that's the risk you took*.


*Aside from mortgage issues, which I personally think should be adjusted to the current market rate for the house in question. Within reason of course.

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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

"When the price of stock rises, everyone celebrates. WTF?"

Actually yes. This is also dumb, and somewhat untrue. The people shorting the stock don't celebrate, and the people who don't own it don't celebrate either.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!

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LOLContests posted...
Because it's your home. If you can't afford to move, don't move. If you were using the house as equity, well that's the risk you took*.


*Aside from mortgage issues, which I personally think should be adjusted to the current market rate for the house in question. Within reason of course.

Wouldn't you be upset if you wanted to move but couldn't? Wouldn't you be upset if you bought something(like a game) then realized that you could have got it half off if you bought it a week later? Now multiply that upset feeling by 10,000 and you'll understand how new homeowners feel.

As for the mortgage issue, every financial institution offering mortgages would have gone absolutely bankrupt(more than they did already) if that were the case. Nobody would be able to extend any credit.

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

SmartMuffin posted...
Actually yes. This is also dumb, and somewhat untrue. The people shorting the stock don't celebrate, and the people who don't own it don't celebrate either.

The same could be said in the housing market. Those that sold homes right before the crash felt great! And the people without property(like Yesmar) liked it too.

However, the majority of middle-class Americans own property, and the crash really ****ed them. That's why they are upset.

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

However, the majority of middle-class Americans own property, and the crash really ****ed them. That's why they are upset.

Depending on how you define middle-class, this MAY be true. However, the majority of Americans DON'T own property, and of the ones who do, a large majority DIDN'T buy their property during the housing bubble. My parents bought a house in 2001 and it is currently worth more than they paid for it. Not that they care how much it's worth, because they plan on actually living in it and aren't using it as a get-rich-quick scheme.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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From: SmartMuffin | #009
When food prices rise, everyone complains. When gas prices rise, everyone complains. When clothing prices rise, everyone complains. When the price of owning a home rises, everyone celebrates.

That's because people who actually own property are helped by the price of owning a home rising.

If you don't own property, then you obviously don't feel that way.

And it's not that people are using houses as a chance to profit or whatever. It's just that some people can't afford the kind of house they want, and one day when they can eventually potentially afford it, the value of their house dropping astronomically isn't what you want.

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Wouldn't you be upset if you wanted to move but couldn't?

That happens to plenty of people when prices get too high as well. Do you disagree that home prices were too high for most Americans in the past decade?


As for the mortgage issue, every financial institution offering mortgages would have gone absolutely bankrupt(more than they did already) if that were the case. Nobody would be able to extend any credit.

Well then they shouldn't have been making risky mortgages. It's not like the bubble bursting was entirely unforeseen. And I would also be supportive of the government stepping in to give money in a crisis, and to establish standards that banks can't make too many risky mortgages.

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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka
Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!

You can argue that the people who got screwed deserved it. Agreed they took a risk and it didn't work out. But the perceived risk of buying property was small.

The reason for the housing boom was because everyone was buying property, especially those who couldn't afford it. Many Americans who couldn't buy a home were convinced to buy a house with a 2/28 mortgage, and then turn it after 2 years and use the profit to pay for their eventual accommodations. This was a huge investment opportunity for many middle class Americans and a chance to get money with a low perceived risk.

When their homes lost their value, they were stuck with homes they couldn't pay for and their credit(and their lives) were ruined.

And I would also be supportive of the government stepping in to give money in a crisis,

Ever heard of the bailout?

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

I won't even go into all the people who made livelihoods in construction and got ****ed.

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

I won't even go into all the people who made livelihoods in construction and got ****ed.

They didn't "get ****ed"

There was no longer a market for their goods and services. You are not entitled to a job.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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Smuffin, obviously I realize that. That doesn't stop people from getting screwed by the economy. I'm not arguing that these people were unjustly dealt what they got, but you cannot blame them for being very upset about losing their careers, fortunes, and in many cases, their homes.

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

SmartMuffin are you really using your parents as the model for the american family?

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

It's really simple why people celebrate when home prices rise and don't when gas, food, etc. prices rise. You consume those things, you don't consume your house and you definitely don't consume your land. So, yeah, homes are principally investments for most people, and the fact that they might live in it doesn't make it not an investment.

Also, the reason more people celebrate when stocks go up is that a lot more people are long stock than short stock.

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90s games > 00s games

*Aside from mortgage issues, which I personally think should be adjusted to the current market rate for the house in question. Within reason of course.

It's already sort of the case, as you can just default on the mortgage and let the bank take the house. But if you made that the law, mortgage interest rates would probably go way up, which is bad for the people. Price fixing is bad.

I'm actually somewhat open to the government trying to get as many people to own land as possible. I think a large part of the population owning property is good for the country, in a similar way to how people being educated about civics is good for the country.

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90s games > 00s games

Don't get me wrong. I understand why current homeowners would not like to see housing prices fall.

But what upsets me is that the media presents "housing prices fell" as universally bad news. Without even DISCUSSING the fact that when housing prices fall, that makes it easier for those currently without houses to buy them.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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But what upsets me is that the media presents "housing prices fell" as universally bad news. Without even DISCUSSING the fact that when housing prices fall, that makes it easier for those currently without houses to buy them.

That's perfectly normal. When you buy a house, you want to buy when house prices are going up, so you can make money on your investment. You don't want to buy when prices are going down, because then you're just throwing money away.

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90s games > 00s games

Smuffin when you end up with a house that cost you $300,000.00 and you want to move to a bigger one because your family is growing but you can't get anyone to pay you more than $50,000.00 for your house, you start to worry about how you are going to support your family.

No one cares about the a****** thats willing to put up the 50K for the house.

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

From: SBell0105 | #028
No one cares about the a****** thats willing to put up the 50K for the house.

Let's not hate on the person who was patient and smart and fortunate enough to buy at a good time. Besides, if you spent 300k on a place and have to move because your family is growing, then it was probably a bad decision to buy the house in the first place.

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From: PartOfYourWorld | #029
Let's not hate on the person who was patient and smart and fortunate enough to buy at a good time. Besides, if you spent 300k on a place and have to move because your family is growing, then it was probably a bad decision to buy the house in the first place.

Clearly this is a religious family that doesn't believe in contraception but also have strong sexual urges.

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

Huh?

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Yoblazer: http://i43.tinypic.com/25z1non.jpg
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i would hope a 300k house has enough room for a family. unless it is some kind of wacky experimental house

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There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out

I misread your post, but decided not to edit my response.

Spending $300,000 now on house can get you a whole lot. Spending $300,000 on a house 5-6 years ago didn't get you as much.

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

Don't mind Sbell. He gets really mad when he has to deal with abstract concepts. I wonder why!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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abstract concepts?

Smuffin you only care about yourself. You are the worst kind of American. You could care less about the rest of the country and what they have to deal with.

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Right, because I'm the only person in the country out there who doesn't own a home.

Cheap housing prices are something communists like you should LOVE! They benefit poor non-property owners at the expense of richer property-owners. What kind of Marxist doesn't love that?

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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I do feel for people whose homes went way underwater and ended up losing everything, but I wouldn't fault anyone for buying when the buyin's good. That's what my parents did with their first house earlier this year, and they had to work hard for years to get it.

It's largely about living within your means. If you're a guy working construction and you decide to buy a 300K home in 2006 because "business is booming," then maybe you haven't thought things out very well. Yeah, I'll feel bad for you and your family when you lose everything you've worked for, but... it was still a bad decision that led to it.

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Yoblazer: http://i43.tinypic.com/25z1non.jpg
Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!

Smuffin, 93% of all financial wealth is controlled by the top 10% of the country

You think they are the only people that currently own homes?


Yoblazer, buying when buying is good is fantastic and I am in no means trying to get on anyones case for doing so. But to complain that the media panders to those in trouble over this issue is absurd.

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

Cheap housing prices are something communists like you should LOVE! They benefit poor non-property owners at the expense of richer property-owners. What kind of Marxist doesn't love that?

That's why everyone needs to own property. If you don't own property, you're a proletariat, and if you're not trying to stop being a proletariat, you're a communist.

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90s games > 00s games

You think they are the only people that currently own homes?

No, but I guarantee you that nearly 100% of the top 10% does own property. As housing values fall, they get poorer, and the benefits of property ownership become increasingly available to the poorest of Americans.

Oh, and the Top 10% pays 95% of the taxes. See, I can quote irrelevant statistics too!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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Uh, it's great for buyers, sure. It's bad for everyone else. My parents owe more on their house now than it's worth. And they've been paying for it for 20 years.

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Kiwi

From: Pretty_Odd | #041
My parents owe more on their house now than it's worth. And they've been paying for it for 20 years.

Yowch. Which city?

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Yoblazer: http://i33.tinypic.com/ml36gl_th.gif
Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!

Uh, it's great for buyers, sure. It's bad for everyone else. My parents owe more on their house now than it's worth. And they've been paying for it for 20 years.

How is that even possible?

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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Interest, probably.

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90s games > 00s games

Your statistic is irrelevant. My statistic is pertinent.

The Rich have no issues with their home losing its value, they are rich. You really think the rich are concerned about the Foreclosure market?

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LOLContests posted...
The problem is that we're monetizing basic resources like shelter. Should people who just want a roof over their head be held hostage by those wanting to make money off of their house?

lol

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neonreaper
Drink to excellence.

The housing market was a bubble, and it was an obvious bubble. If you buy into a bubble without a backup plan should it burst, you are dumb. I'm sorry, but you don't get a free pass just because the bubble happened to be in housing instead of stocks.

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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

From: redrocket | #047
I'm sorry, but you don't get a free pass

Gov't bailouts would like to disagree with you.

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(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

it wasn't an obvious bubble

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neonreaper
Drink to excellence.

neoneaper posted...
it wasn't an obvious bubble

lol

--
From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch