From: Team Rocket Elite | #049 How does It respond to fears of abstract things? Like if someone is afraid of death or loneliness. Does It have to transform into something physical?
It has to transform into something physical, yes. It primarily targets smaller children because their fears are more tangible, so it's easier to find a form that will scare them (It apparently finds people taste better when they're afraid).
Anyway
Mewtwo
It very specifically assumes all the vulnerabilities of the form it takes. It got hurt when it was a werewolf because the kids hit it with a silver slug from a slingshot, and they definitely didn't have the whole "belief makes it real" thing down yet until the very final attempt at a shot, which never hit anyway (that's really the moment they started to figure out how It works a bit). One of the kids, Beverly I think, hurt It a tad by squishing one of the locusts it became. It didn't like being punched as a giant eyeball even before Richie (whose fear it was mimicking at the time) joined in. Belief helps beat It, but if you hit it hard enough, it still gets hurt and will retreat to avoid potential death. Might not be able to outright kill it without the whole mental aspect (hard to tell since even that was partially built on the fact that the kids thought it would work due to It resembling some mythological being), but you can definitely "defeat" her.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
How does It respond to fears of abstract things? Like if someone is afraid of death or loneliness. Does It have to transform into something physical?
Seems like it doesn't have to be physical, but that's easier. It said at one point that it preferred killing children, because their fears were easier to interpret physically
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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
Also mind-reading shouldn't be much of a problem for Mewtwo, since It's whole thing of being a manifestation of its true self seems to work as a filter of sorts. Bill and one of the others had that mental link thing going on against It, Bill's wife was "only" rendered comatose by It, and so on. At worst, Mewtwo reading Its mind would give It a chance to try to throw him into the Deadlights, but I imagine Mewtwo could figure out how to avoid having that happen.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
If the Deadlights happen though, that's an auto-KO. Even partial exposure would probably allow It to finish Mewtwo off. Facing your worst fears isn't something many people are equipped to handle, even someone like Mewtwo.
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The Deadlights were kind of random. They didn't kill Bill, because Bill was rescued before he actually saw them. The other two instances of people seeing them were Beverly's abusive husband, and Bill's wife, who both saw them at the same time. Bill's wife went into a coma. Beverly's husband immediately dropped dead
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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
The victim can attempt through willpower and imagination to resist the effect, however. Being defeated in this test of wills causes severe, near-"fatal" harm to It.
Where does this information come from? Was something able to defeat It in this way?
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From: DeathChicken | #055 The Deadlights were kind of random. They didn't kill Bill, because Bill was rescued before he actually saw them. The other two instances of people seeing them were Beverly's abusive husband, and Bill's wife, who both saw them at the same time. Bill's wife went into a coma. Beverly's husband immediately dropped dead
I don't know that it was ever confirmed that they actually saw the Deadlights, I always thought they just weren't mentally prepared to see It at all (so instead of seeing the spider, their minds just kind of snapped). It was mentioned that adults would have a much harder time handling It than kids would due to being less able to see something that defies explanation and cope with it, after all.
From: Team Rocket Elite | #056 Where does this information come from? Was something able to defeat It in this way?
Both times It was defeated started with It and Bill having their little showdown and when it ended, It was screeching in agony and running away. The kids thought it had been hurt so badly it would be fatal the first time, as adults they chased her down to try to finish it off for good, but even the first time she was ****ed up enough to back into hibernation months ahead of her usual schedule.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Mewtwo should have the mental capacity to overcome anything It throws at *cough* the pokemon in question.
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Both times It was defeated started with It and Bill having their little showdown and when it ended, It was screeching in agony and running away
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of these times due to the Turtle interfering? As well as...whatever the thing was beyond the Turtle ("You done good, kid.")
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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
From: DeathChicken | #059 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of these times due to the Turtle interfering? As well as...whatever the thing was beyond the Turtle ("You done good, kid.")
I thought the Turtle was mainly just giving encouragement/information to Bill. I know at some point, I think when he's getting his memories of 1957 back, he says something like "The Turtle can't help us now" and I think that was referring to when he was "fighting" It.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Gan was almost certainly empowering the Losers, yeah. It's why they managed to kill It.
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"Bill and Richie engage It in the Ritual of Chüd again, but Bill realizes that "the Turtle cannot help them" due to the Turtle's death by choking on a regurgitated galaxy or two. Richie rescues Bill from the deadlights and manages to severely injure It."
It doesn't seem like Turtle is helping them this time. How does Richie rescue Bill and injure It?
"Bill crushes It's heart between his hands, finally killing It."
I realize It was severely injured at this point but that doesn't exactly sound like using the power of belief to harm It. Bill is an ordinary human, right? If he can use his bare hands to physically harm It, why won't Mewtwo's Shadow Ball work?
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From: Team Rocket Elite | #062 It doesn't seem like Turtle is helping them this time. How does Richie rescue Bill and injure It?
"Bill crushes It's heart between his hands, finally killing It."
I realize It was severely injured at this point but that doesn't exactly sound like using the power of belief to harm It. Bill is an ordinary human, right? If he can use his bare hands to physically harm It, why won't Mewtwo's Shadow Ball work?
Richie mainly just catches It completely by surprise (she thought that Bill was the only one who really had the strength of mind to oppose her, and his death would scatter the rest) and serves to give Bill some moral support. As for how Bill hurt It, she was pretty damn banged up at that point due to losing the ritual, it was made pretty clear she only fought back at that point because she was hurt enough that she couldn't hope to win no matter what she did so she chose to stand and fight because it was slightly less hopeless than stumbling away and having even less energy to fight back when they caught up, and I guess being that badly injured let Bill finish her off, although technically she still probably didn't outright die <_<
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Yeah, I'm still confused by what the point of that (and the reference in Insomnia to Derry having improved since the storm but still being a ****ed up place) was if there's never going to be any real follow up. Got me thinking it might tie into the Dark Tower series but apparently it was just there to make us curious.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Yeah, technically, Pennywise probably can't be killed unless Derry is completely wiped off the map, since he/she/it seems to be a manifestation of the town's evil
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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
Mewtwo's will power was shown in Mewtwo Returns where he took continuous physical damage for a while. If it's a battle between minds I feel Mewtwo, like most psychics can handle it. How strong is IT's will power?
As for fears, the only thing that seemed to make him pause in the movies or anime was Giovanni and even then he got over it. Anyone claiming that they are the strongest trainer/pokemon wouldn't make Mewtwo scared, he might get nervous if he's getting beaten, but it doesn't seem that IT's illusions work like that (the opponent must be initially scared). I guess the worst thing would be if Mewtwo was stuck in a test tube again and couldn't get out, but I feel if he woke up in one of those he'd feel anger before fear which screws up the illusion.
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The biggest thing I'm seeing here is that It has been defeated by normal humans' willpower. I just feel like Mewtwo could instantly deduce his "greatest fear" was just a fake thing and then smash it.
"Greatest fear" was never something intangible like "reliving days as a slave" anyway right? It just manifests as a giant spider or some other physical moving thing. Besides, if normal kids can fear nothing, Mewtwo might do the same anyways, especially if he believes himself to be the strongest.
Haven't watched either of the source materials though, (except dubbed Pokemon a long time ago).
pjbasis posted... The biggest thing I'm seeing here is that It has been defeated by normal humans' willpower. I just feel like Mewtwo could instantly deduce his "greatest fear" was just a fake thing and then smash it.
"Greatest fear" was never something intangible like "reliving days as a slave" anyway right? It just manifests as a giant spider or some other physical moving thing. Besides, if normal kids can fear nothing, Mewtwo might do the same anyways, especially if he believes himself to be the strongest.
Haven't watched either of the source materials though, (except dubbed Pokemon a long time ago).
Correction: defeated by normal humans empowered by The Other, the entity that created Pennywise, and probably Gan (if you ever read Dark Tower).
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