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Board 8 > There's one thing I don't get about the blue shell...

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demonfang178
09/14/11 12:26:00 PM
#1:


If it's only available to racers 6th and below and targets the one in 1st, how exactly does that help those below 6th?
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Anagram
09/14/11 12:27:00 PM
#2:


If everyone is really good, I guess you might have a cluster of racers all near each other, so that 5th place is almost 1st place and could rocket past him if he screws up. I don't know if that ever happens in actual practice, though.

Blue shells are just awful in general.

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Biolizard28
09/14/11 12:30:00 PM
#3:


It doesn't it just f***s over the guy in first.

Punishing a player for doing well is lol

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Grand Kirby
09/14/11 12:36:00 PM
#4:


I've gotten it higher than sixth. I guess they thought it would be too powerful in second, but expected players to be closer to the lead when they use it.

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HeroDelTiempo17
09/14/11 12:36:00 PM
#5:


It used to be that it had a chance of hitting anyone near the middle of the path ahead of you along with the rider in first place, so there's that.

Double Dash and onwards got rid of that but it sounds like MK7 is bringing it back.

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pjbasis
09/14/11 12:38:00 PM
#6:


It is just to keep the first place from getting too far ahead.

And don't give me that "punishes people for being good lol" nonsense. Unless you get hit by like 3 in one lap (which happens occasionally unfortunately) you'd be BAD to let second place catch up just for that.

The s*** that second place has to deal with from behind far outweighs what first has to face from blue shells and what measly items second can get.
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SpeedYoshi
09/14/11 12:42:00 PM
#7:


I was playing double dash with 2 friends the other day (so not in a circuit)
2nd/3rd place would get it >=(

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foolm0ron
09/14/11 12:44:00 PM
#8:


Can't you just get a shield or something to block the rare blue shell?

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LeonhartFour
09/14/11 12:44:00 PM
#9:


From: pjbasis | #006
And don't give me that "punishes people for being good lol" nonsense. Unless you get hit by like 3 in one lap (which happens occasionally unfortunately) you'd be BAD to let second place catch up just for that.


Unless second place (and even more than that) is right there and will pass you before you recover (and that is often the case). Blue shell is just a way for last place to troll. I shouldn't have to play Mario Kart and dread being in first place.

Mario Kart 64 had better item balance that the crap that came afterward. At least second place could get some good items in MK64.

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Liquid Wind
09/14/11 12:45:00 PM
#10:


it doesn't, it's just one of many examples of terrible game design and yet this series has a crazy following somehow. it's like nintendo really doesn't even have to try.
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redrocket
09/14/11 12:47:00 PM
#11:


Liquid Wind posted...
it doesn't, it's just one of many examples of terrible game design and yet this series has a crazy following somehow. it's like nintendo really doesn't even have to try.

Ulti is right?

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demonfang178
09/14/11 12:49:00 PM
#12:


Double Dash and onwards got rid of that but it sounds like MK7 is bringing it back.

Joking, right? Granted, it looks better because you can fly and whatnot so you have more room to dodge, but still.

Unless you get hit by like 3 in one lap (which happens occasionally unfortunately) you'd be BAD to let second place catch up just for that.

150 cc reverse. Rainbow Road. Light characters only.
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TimJab
09/14/11 12:51:00 PM
#13:


blue shell is the best weapon

it pisses off all the nerds that take the game too seriously and do stuff like snaking

when playing for fun with friends (the way the game is meant to be played), it's great fun to taunt the guy in 1st before launching the shell

i've always wondered what would happen if the 1st place guys ghosts the blue shell away from somebody or if the guy with the blue shell gets into first without using it

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Bigwig_rah
09/14/11 12:53:00 PM
#14:


MK7 really needs an SSB-like option to turn off certain items.

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TimJab
09/14/11 12:53:00 PM
#15:


From: Bigwig_rah | #014
MK7 really needs an SSB-like option to turn off certain items.


No items

Mario only

LUIGI'S RACEWAY

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Grand Kirby
09/14/11 1:00:00 PM
#16:


It is just to keep the first place from getting too far ahead.

And don't give me that "punishes people for being good lol" nonsense. Unless you get hit by like 3 in one lap (which happens occasionally unfortunately) you'd be BAD to let second place catch up just for that.

The s*** that second place has to deal with from behind far outweighs what first has to face from blue shells and what measly items second can get.

This is true. People talk about wanting the Blue Shell removed from the games, but without it the game would be even MORE unbalanced. There would be nothing to stop the first place player at all. Better item balance in general would help fix that, but still, in the current games Blue Shells are necessary. And if you're good enough, they can't really stop you anyway.

i've always wondered what would happen if the 1st place guys ghosts the blue shell away from somebody or if the guy with the blue shell gets into first without using it

That reminds me of an online match I had on MKDS. It was just me and another guy racing, and he got the Blue Shell, but he was so close he jumped out in first before he could use. I couldn't pass him, so I just trailed him for about a lap. Then I finally got a Boo, and was ready to steal it from him. But just as I used it, he used his Blue Shell so I couldn't steal it, and he blew himself up.

I'm not sure if was an accident, or if he knew it wouldn't matter either way, and he just wanted to go out on his own terms, but I thought that was hilarious.

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Biolizard28
09/14/11 1:01:00 PM
#17:


Maybe they could

you know

make *gasp* NEW ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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LOLContests
09/14/11 1:06:00 PM
#18:


Who doesn't have the sense to just break when the blue shell comes so that it hits the person in second place too?

Edit: The items that various places get are balanced in regards to what's more useful to them. Why would you need a speed item if you're in second place? If anything that would make the game more unbalanced. If you're in the lead you want to keep it, so getting bananas/bombs and stuff to attack the people behind you makes sense. You don't need to attack people if you're in the back of the pack, you have to catch up! The items people in the lead get are less fun to use so people think that they're not as useful when they are.

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Dark Master 101
09/14/11 1:11:00 PM
#19:


I have to say I HATE the blue shell with a passion, however I know that once it's been fired the only viable option is to slow down so that it hits 2nd place and maybe a few others, at least I can cause a pileup.

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HeroDelTiempo17
09/14/11 1:31:00 PM
#20:


From: demonfang178 | #012
Joking, right? Granted, it looks better because you can fly and whatnot so you have more room to dodge, but still.


I dunno, there was some gameplay look a while ago and they were saying it had spikes but no wings?

I have no idea if it's actually shown up in videos as the same as in DD/DS

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Red Shifter
09/14/11 1:44:00 PM
#21:


They took the skill out of attacking and defending years ago so they needed to adjust by having a spam of random crap to hit first place.

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Panthera
09/14/11 1:52:00 PM
#22:


From: pjbasis | #006
And don't give me that "punishes people for being good lol" nonsense. Unless you get hit by like 3 in one lap (which happens occasionally unfortunately) you'd be BAD to let second place catch up just for that.


Have you ever played against the AI in the Wii version? 150cc is basically code for "player 1 eats a blue shell, then a red before they can get any speed, then another series of items all before they can really move, right on the final corner, every time". Playing that game with AI opponents (which you'll probably want to do if you want a full sized race since you're not always going to be able to find a full set of humans) is an exercise in tedium.

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jck4332
09/14/11 1:53:00 PM
#23:


Didn't you used to be able to get blue shells in first place?

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KingButz
09/14/11 2:00:00 PM
#24:


From: Grand Kirby | #017
People talk about wanting the Blue Shell removed from the games, but without it the game would be even MORE unbalanced. There would be nothing to stop the first place player at all.


Because mushrooms, red shells, green shells, lightning, ghosts, and stars are useless against players in first place, I forgot.

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pjbasis
09/14/11 2:07:00 PM
#25:


Panthera posted...
Have you ever played against the AI in the Wii version? 150cc is basically code for "player 1 eats a blue shell, then a red before they can get any speed, then another series of items all before they can really move, right on the final corner, every time". Playing that game with AI opponents (which you'll probably want to do if you want a full sized race since you're not always going to be able to find a full set of humans) is an exercise in tedium.

I agree with this. The AI seems to cheat and get too many blue shells especially at one time and makes trying to get high grades in 1P mode really annoying.

But I was talking mostly about multiplayer, and as someone with 8000 VR points, it really hasn't affected me too much.
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Panthera
09/14/11 2:07:00 PM
#26:


Also I seem to recall hearing that using a blue shell in first place would make it immediately hit you, haven't seen it in person so take that with a grain of salt.

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LeonhartFour
09/14/11 2:07:00 PM
#27:


From: Grand Kirby | #017
This is true. People talk about wanting the Blue Shell removed from the games, but without it the game would be even MORE unbalanced. There would be nothing to stop the first place player at all. Better item balance in general would help fix that, but still, in the current games Blue Shells are necessary. And if you're good enough, they can't really stop you anyway.


The solution is to give players in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th better items, like more triple shells and things like that.

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Lopen
09/14/11 2:09:00 PM
#28:


I'm pretty sure if you fire the blue shell in first place it just goes endlessly around the track down the middle of it, smashing through racers it happens to hit, until it hits a wall.

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Panthera
09/14/11 2:09:00 PM
#29:


From: pjbasis | #025
I agree with this. The AI seems to cheat and get too many blue shells especially at one time and makes trying to get high grades in 1P mode really annoying.

But I was talking mostly about multiplayer, and as someone with 8000 VR points, it really hasn't affected me too much.


Yeah I don't have much problem with it in multiplayer, it's never really bothered me much there, especially since I've usually played with smaller groups (not sure why, guess the timing just worked out for me to have smaller amounts of people online whenever I was) so there's less room for people to get them. The single player mode is really where the game deserves some ire for loving to pull obnoxious crap on you.

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pjbasis
09/14/11 2:09:00 PM
#30:


KingButz posted...
From: Grand Kirby | #017
People talk about wanting the Blue Shell removed from the games, but without it the game would be even MORE unbalanced. There would be nothing to stop the first place player at all.
Because mushrooms, red shells, green shells, lightning, ghosts, and stars are useless against players in first place, I forgot.

Yeah they are actually.
Lightning hits everyone and the extra time it affects 1st place isn't much. Ghost? lol? Stars aren't given to people that can affect first.

1st place is always going to have a trailing banana or shell, so other green and red shells are useless.

And the important thing is that second place IS going to be hit by things even worse. It's not like second place is just trying to catch first, he's also trying to not get killed by third, who's getting even better items.
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pjbasis
09/14/11 2:10:00 PM
#31:


LeonhartFour posted...
The solution is to give players in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th better items, like more triple shells and things like that.

Yes this too
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WazzupGenius00
09/14/11 2:12:00 PM
#32:


And this is why CTR is the greatest kart racer of all time

The item balance is actually good

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Lopen
09/14/11 2:12:00 PM
#33:


Nah you can totally reach first place with stars. The trick is to use one right before you hit the item box, then it's more likely to give you another one because for some reason stars are more likely if you have one on-- and if you're lucky you'll be able to chain 3 together. More than enough boosted speed time to reach first place unless his lead is so ungodly that you have no business catching him anyway.

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MarvelousGerbil
09/14/11 2:13:00 PM
#34:


Maybe they could actually make the game give actual stats that affect items or something. Like a stat that affects how hard a blue shell hits or a stat the increases your chance of getting a good item in a higher position. As it stands it's like the stats on the karts are designed with a more realistic racer in mind, which Mario Kart is not, never was, and hopefully never will be.

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MarvelousGerbil
09/14/11 2:15:00 PM
#35:


From: Lopen | #033
Nah you can totally reach first place with stars. The trick is to use one right before you hit the item box, then it's more likely to give you another one because for some reason stars are more likely if you have one on-- and if you're lucky you'll be able to chain 3 together.


I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, I kind of wonder if it's a nod to certain SMW levels.

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pjbasis
09/14/11 2:16:00 PM
#36:


I didn't know that about stars, and I'm kinda skeptical.
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Sorozone
09/14/11 2:17:00 PM
#37:


Just dodge them.

Go to 1:28, Look @ that skill.
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WazzupGenius00
09/14/11 2:17:00 PM
#38:


From: MarvelousGerbil | #035
I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, I kind of wonder if it's a nod to certain SMW levels.


That mechanic was in SMB3 first!

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Sorozone
09/14/11 2:20:00 PM
#39:


From: pjbasis | #030
Yeah they are actually.
Lightning hits everyone and the extra time it affects 1st place isn't much. Ghost? lol? Stars aren't given to people that can affect first.


This isn't entirely true. Lightning can be quite effective against first if you use it when they go over a gap, and then they spawn in a terrible spot.
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GuessMyUserName
09/14/11 2:23:00 PM
#40:


From: HeroDelTiempo17 | Posted: 9/14/2011 4:31:01 PM | #020
I dunno, there was some gameplay look a while ago and they were saying it had spikes but no wings?

I have no idea if it's actually shown up in videos as the same as in DD/DS


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whatisurnameplz
09/14/11 2:24:00 PM
#41:


From: Sorozone | #037
Just dodge them.

Go to 1:28, Look @ that skill.


This, but I remember in Double Dash you could dodge them without having to use a mushroom or trick boost. I think every kart could do it if you used the mini-turbo at the right time.

In MKWii you need to either use a boosting item, trick boost, or a character that makes really wide drifts, but those tend to suck and you probably wouldn't make it into first on one anyways.

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foolmor0n
09/14/11 2:26:00 PM
#42:


From: WazzupGenius00 | #032
And this is why CTR is the greatest kart racer of all time

The item balance is actually good


I was gonna say this but still the only way to block the big lightning ball is with a shield, which is pretty rare. And there's no way to block the zappy clock thing at all.

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Grand Kirby
09/14/11 2:26:00 PM
#43:


Have you ever played against the AI in the Wii version? 150cc is basically code for "player 1 eats a blue shell, then a red before they can get any speed, then another series of items all before they can really move, right on the final corner, every time".

Honestly, it's so easy to defend a first place position, you'll end up about 20 seconds ahead of anyone else anyway. Even when all that happens, it doesn't stop you, it just slightly inconveniences you.

Because mushrooms, red shells, green shells, lightning, ghosts, and stars are useless against players in first place, I forgot.

Mushrooms - Need to be in close range to use, and are very difficult to use effectively.
Red Shells - Pathetic. Easily blocked, and they're not very common in second place, and even then they'll only come in singles.
Green Shells - Need to be in close range, and are difficult to use correctly.
Lightning - Affects all other racers too, so no one near first place is going to benefit from this. A second place player is never going to get this.
Ghosts - Not going to do a thing. Any player is still going to be dragging an item at all times anyway, which ghosts can't take.
Stars - Are never going to end up anywhere near the first place player.

Blue Shells are the only item in the current games, or in the previous games, that could actually be a threat to the first place player without also affecting nearby players. The only times when things were a little more balanced were when you couldn't drag items (it's way too easy to block incoming weapons in Mario Kart games), and when Red Shells were a little smarter. But the constant in Mario Kart's gameplay is that when you're in the middle of the pack, where the most damaging items are plentiful, and where it's harder to defend against them, the harder it is to move ahead. When you're in the lead, barely anything can touch you, and you almost always have a Shell or a Banana to defend with, which only helps you increase your lead. Only a Blue Shell can really affect you, and more you pull out ahead, the more even that becomes just a mild annoyance that can't actually stop you from winning. Still, without them, things would be even worse.

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LeonhartFour
09/14/11 2:28:00 PM
#44:


From: Grand Kirby | #043
Blue Shells are the only item in the current games, or in the previous games, that could actually be a threat to the first place player without also affecting nearby players.


In Mario Kart 64 this is totally untrue because players in 2nd place could actually get triple shells. A player in first place isn't going to have enough to avoid getting hit by one unless he's been saving up triple shells of his own or he lucks out with a ghost.

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Lopen
09/14/11 2:29:00 PM
#45:


Seriously people didn't know this? I'm sure this was the case in SMK and 64 at least. Go try it out if you don't believe me!

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pjbasis
09/14/11 2:29:00 PM
#46:


In Mario Kart 64 second place can also get lightnings, much to the dismay of many first place racers in Wario Stadium.
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WazzupGenius00
09/14/11 2:29:00 PM
#47:


From: foolmor0n | #042
I was gonna say this but still the only way to block the big lightning ball is with a shield, which is pretty rare. And there's no way to block the zappy clock thing at all.


both of those affect everyone though (unless you somehow don't have 10 fruit for the orb), so it's not nearly as damaging to the first place racer as the blue shell is

Plus when you do get hit by stuff you usually keep a decent amount of forward momentum so it's not as terrible to get hit.

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Regaro_Ukiera
09/14/11 3:29:00 PM
#48:


From: pjbasis | #046
In Mario Kart 64 second place can also get lightnings, much to the dismay of many first place racers in Wario Stadium.


^

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demonfang178
09/14/11 3:53:00 PM
#49:


MarvelousGerbil posted...
Maybe they could actually make the game give actual stats that affect items or something. Like a stat that affects how hard a blue shell hits or a stat the increases your chance of getting a good item in a higher position. As it stands it's like the stats on the karts are designed with a more realistic racer in mind, which Mario Kart is not, never was, and hopefully never will be.

There's an item stat in MKWii, but, of course, karts that have this stat high generally suck in everything else. It would be funny if everyone who has been hit with 3 blue shells in the span of 30 seconds (so yeah, everyone) has hit with karts that are high in this stat.
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