Board 8 > NOMINATE Ramza Beouvle/Delita Hyral

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KingButz
09/23/11 2:22:00 PM
#1:


Amazing rivalry deserves to be nom'd

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TheArkOfTurus
09/23/11 2:23:00 PM
#2:


Done and done.

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KamikazePotato
09/23/11 2:23:00 PM
#3:


Okay, this is a good one.

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:23:00 PM
#4:


Not a rivalry, not even in the friendly sense.

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Ness26
09/23/11 2:24:00 PM
#5:


Beoulve*

But I don't really see this as a rivalry.

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KanzarisKelshen
09/23/11 2:24:00 PM
#6:


From: LeonhartFour | #004
Not a rivalry, not even in the friendly sense.


A diametric opposition. It's a rivalry of philosophies.

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Lord Bob Bree
09/23/11 2:24:00 PM
#7:


From: LeonhartFour | #004
Not a rivalry, not even in the friendly sense.



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Evillordexdeath
09/23/11 2:24:00 PM
#8:


Done.

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FateStayAlbion
09/23/11 2:24:00 PM
#9:


I forgot all about that one. Done.

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metroid composite
09/23/11 2:25:00 PM
#10:


I've thought about it, but I'm not sure they're really rivals.

EDIT: minor SPOILERS:

They never fight, and are often working against the same people, albeit through different means to their ends.

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:25:00 PM
#11:


From: KanzarisKelshen | #006
A diametric opposition. It's a rivalry of philosophies.


But they don't even actively come into opposition with each other.

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Ness26
09/23/11 2:26:00 PM
#12:


Ramza / Wiegraf would be better.

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:26:00 PM
#13:


From: Ness26 | #012
Ramza / Wiegraf would be better.


I like the way you think.

I can get behind this.

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Blairville
09/23/11 2:29:00 PM
#14:


I went with Wiegraf. Should we use full names?

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:30:00 PM
#15:


I'd do full names, yes.

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Ness26
09/23/11 2:30:00 PM
#16:


I think so. So that makes

Ramza Beoulve
Wiegraf Folles

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metroid composite
09/23/11 2:31:00 PM
#17:


Ness26 posted...
Ramza / Wiegraf would be better.

Ehh...that's more of a rivalry, but still sort-of not.

Delita/Algus would be a rivalry.

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KingButz
09/23/11 2:43:00 PM
#18:


From: LeonhartFour | #011
But they don't even actively come into opposition with each other.


***spoilers***


Delita threatens to kill Ramza(arguably twice), they work for opposing goals, they have opposing philosophies, one is ethical while the other is unethical, Delita opposes Ramza several times although they don't actually fight.

Rivals enough to me.

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:44:00 PM
#19:


Delita never really considers Ramza a threat, and definitely not the other way around.

They have the same goal (End the war), but they have different motives and methods.

From: KingButz | #018
Delita opposes Ramza several times although they don't actually fight.


When?

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KingButz
09/23/11 2:52:00 PM
#20:


Stealing the princess that Ramza was hired to protect, telling him to **** off at Warjilis Trade City, and taking the princess from Lionel before Ramza can rescue her so he can use her.

I'm not saying it's an especially strong rivalry, and they're are still friendly, but they obviously have different end goals past stopping the war.

You can make almost as much a case here as you can for Sonic v. Knuckles though.

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BrettEagles
09/23/11 2:53:00 PM
#21:


Nommed!

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LeonhartFour
09/23/11 2:56:00 PM
#22:


Sonic vs. Knuckles actively opposed each other for nearly two games.

And the only thing Delita does at Warjilis Trade City is tell him, "You can't protect Ovelia like I can" and leaves. And Delita doesn't do those things to mess with Ramza, especially at the beginning. I doubt he even knew Ramza was there.

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KingButz
09/23/11 3:02:00 PM
#23:


Well I'm obviously not going to change your mind, so I don't really care what you say. I think there is a topic for Wiegraf or something that you can go post in.

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KingButz
09/23/11 3:19:00 PM
#24:


Need this to stay on the first page

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KingButz
09/23/11 4:25:00 PM
#25:


More noms!

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colliding
09/23/11 9:55:00 PM
#26:


did it.
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colliding
09/23/11 9:56:00 PM
#27:


also what the hell at people saying it isn't a rivalry

I just... don't understand.
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metaIslugg
09/24/11 10:51:00 AM
#28:


On it. People questioning if this or that are actually rivalries are annoying. If you don't stretch the definition of rivalry this is gonna be one boring ass contest.

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LeonhartFour
09/24/11 11:07:00 AM
#29:


Except Bacon actually has to consider it a rivalry for it to be accepted, so it doesn't really matter how much you want to stretch it.

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Vlado
09/24/11 11:36:00 AM
#30:


They are friends. They were never once rivals.

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metaIslugg
09/24/11 11:39:00 AM
#31:


Then I can already see the rage that is to come. Mario and Luigi are friends and I'm sure they'll get in, for instance. Same for Ryu/Ken.

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colliding
09/24/11 11:44:00 AM
#32:


You don't have to fight someone to be rivals you know.

Luke and Han were rivals.

In the case of Delita and Ramza they are so clearly rivals it's obvious. They may have been friends and may have had similar intentions, but their philosophies and personalities are direcctly oppositional. They are rivals.
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Vlado
09/24/11 11:45:00 AM
#33:


^
That's nonsense. Just being in the same game and having different beliefs qualifies two characters as "rivals"? Please.

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LeonhartFour
09/24/11 11:58:00 AM
#34:


From: metaIslugg | #031
Mario and Luigi are friends and I'm sure they'll get in, for instance. Same for Ryu/Ken.


Mario/Luigi won't get in over Mario/Bowser.

And Ryu/Ken at least actively compete against each other for a common pursuit, and they have to beat each other.

Luke and Han were rivals for Leia's affections in the first movie or two, sure. In other words, they both wanted something only one of them could have. Ramza and Delita, despite having different philosophies and personalities, doesn't make them rivals. They never had to best the other in order to get what they wanted, and they cooperated more often than not.

There's a difference between a "foil" and a "rival." Ramza and Delita are clearly foils (which is more what your post describes than anything else), but they are not rivals.

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KingBartz
09/25/11 11:34:00 AM
#35:


oh the discussion died. I don't care what we argue about as long as this topic remains visible

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KingBartz
09/25/11 10:52:00 PM
#36:


dum de dum

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ChichiriMuyo
09/25/11 10:56:00 PM
#37:


Okay

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KingButz
09/26/11 8:45:00 AM
#38:


Don't blame me. Blame yourself or God.

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colliding
09/26/11 8:58:00 AM
#39:


yeah, not gonna argue about it anymore, but let's get the nominations in!
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DeathChicken
09/26/11 9:07:00 AM
#40:


Even the ending of that game reflects their rivalry. "What did you get, Ramza?". Ramza 'wins' by refusing to sink to Delita's level, accomplishing his goal, and quietly riding off on a chocobo. Delita also accomplishes his goal, but he lost everything to get there, and in the end, it probably wasn't worth it at all to him

It's a great rivalry, honestly. A friendly rivalry, but still a rivalry

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LeonhartFour
09/26/11 9:09:00 AM
#41:


From: DeathChicken | #040
Even the ending of that game reflects their rivalry. "What did you get, Ramza?". Ramza 'wins' by refusing to sink to Delita's level, accomplishing his goal, and quietly riding off on a chocobo. Delita also accomplishes his goal, but he lost everything to get there, and in the end, it probably wasn't worth it at all to him


Again, that's a foil.

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muddersmilk
09/26/11 9:12:00 AM
#42:


Yeah, I was going to nominate them Leon and them are right that Delita is a foil more than a rival.

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KingButz
09/26/11 9:13:00 AM
#43:


How am I supposed to believe an irreverent kid like you!

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colliding
09/26/11 9:16:00 AM
#44:


foil characters can also be rivals.

OK done arguing.
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LeonhartFour
09/26/11 9:17:00 AM
#45:


They can. Squall and Seifer are foils and rivals.

Squall and Zell are also foils, but they are not rivals.

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Kirby Driver Reborn
09/26/11 9:19:00 AM
#46:


already nominated.

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KingButz
09/26/11 9:32:00 AM
#47:


From: muddersmilk | #042
Yeah, I was going to nominate them Leon and them are right that Delita is a foil more than a rival.



You're turning on me, too? You're both ingrates!

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muddersmilk
09/26/11 9:37:00 AM
#48:


Sorry man, but it's true. That said I still be nominating Ramza/Wiegraf. And if Ramza/Delita shows up in the database that will be my choice.

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KingButz
09/26/11 9:46:00 AM
#49:


Don't worry. Our reasons may be different, but we want the same thing. As long as we want the same thing...we won't be enemies.

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LeonhartFour
09/26/11 9:47:00 AM
#50:


That quote doesn't help your case, you know...!

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