Spoilers for every game Bioware has ever made, just to be careful
I get that Bioware is big on using tropes and archetypes, I really do. I get the "A warrior and a mage join you at the beginning of the game" characters, I get the "crazy warrior who's in it for the thrills" character, I get the "slightly insane genius" character, I get the "obviously evil person who joins you anyway" character, I get the "conflicted but wise old man" character. But the "normal human with a tragic past" archetype confuses me. I could maybe see it being used once or twice, but they use it almost all of their games, and every time, it's the least popular character (except maybe the KotOR series, which are, unsurprisingly, the first two games they used it in). I'm serious, check it out.
Carth in KotOR. Atton in KotOR 2. Sky in Jade Empire. Kaiden in Mass Effect. Jacob in Mass Effect 2. Aveline in DA2.
Just about everyone hates Kaiden and most people dislike Aveline for being, by far, the least interesting character in DA2. Jacob and Sky are just straight-up forgettable. I can't say if Kaiden will continue to be "the boring guy" in ME3, since he's returning, but it's certainly not impossible. The only ones people like are Carth and Atton. Carth was the first, and Atton was just substantially better written than anyone else I've listed.
The BG and NWN series have no one like this, but only because they predate the concept (though you can make argument for a few characters in BG as still being this). DAO has no one like this at all, though, which I admit I like.
I just don't really get why Bioware thinks this character archetype is good enough to put into every game they make. I guess it's probably an easy character to write and put into any setting, but that's all I can think of.
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I guess they assume there's some subset of people out there who love to have "normal" characters because they're supposedly a lot more relatable. Like, it would be a lot easier to imagine yourself being Carth than a Wookiee or a Mandalorian or whatever.
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I actually didn't mind Kaiden, and I liked Carth and Atton.
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I love Carth; if I had to rank him, he'd be my favorite KotOR character behind Revan (or at least up there with HK and Canderous). He's a beast in battle, has a great voice actor, and has a tragic backstory that explains his mistrust at the beginning and his lust for revenge later on. People seem to dislike him for being a goody-two-shoes, but come on, he's a Republic war hero who has fought against evil foes in two wars and has seen what their brutality has done to innocent people. He's not gonna be a hardass like Canderous, but he's courageous and easily holds his own. Anyway, I never thought he was that annoying or preachy with his morals; that would be Bastila.
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I can never remember the difference between Carth and Atton. Only thing I remember is that Atton hits on you in the prologue if you're a chick, but I don't remember what he looks like <_<
I loved both but they were both generic argh
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Having a straight man to act as a foil to all the crazy personalities around him can be a useful thematic device. Plus, they tend to provide the most grounded response to situations; not really "kill everything" or "help everything."
Atton doesn't really fit this ideal, obviously. Which is good.
agesboy posted... I loved both but they were both generic argh
Why do I always see this? Besides Kreia, Atton's the best character in that game.
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I don't count Alistar. He's not really the normal guy who's defined by his normality and his backstory is something short of tragic, though I suppose he's ultimately a normal guy swept along into adventure. Leliana is closer than he is, save for her extreme religiousness.
metroid13 posted... Having a straight man to act as a foil to all the crazy personalities around him can be a useful thematic device. Plus, they tend to provide the most grounded response to situations; not really "kill everything" or "help everything."
I realize this, but except for Atton, they're always generic good guys anyway and are on the side of helping people whenever possible. The straight man aspect is the only really helpful thing, and really, I think that's better done as an option for the protagonist's dialogue, especially considering how loathed these characters often are.
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Psycho_Kenshin posted... Aveline is actually pretty eccentric I'd say, with very entertaining banter with Isabela, etc.
I agree Kaiden and Jacob aren't very interesting.
Aveline's only banter like that is with Isabela. Her defining characteristics are "likes order," "very loyal.," and "thinks Isabela is a whore (and is right)." I actually kind of like Aveline because I think she's better written than the other "normal guy" characters, but she's definitely the most normal person in the party.
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Whoops, forgot to mention Casavir in NWN 2. The only interesting thing about him is, if you're an evil female main character, you can tell him to prove his love to you by stabbing himself and then laugh when he actually does it.
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Blind Azathoth posted... The reason Atton seems better-written than the other "normal guy" characters is because KOTOR 2 was made by Obsidian.
Aarrrrghhh I can't believe I forgot that, of course.
And yeah, Carth sucks, but Alistair is awesome.
Alistar is not awesome. He's really whiny and shirks responsibility even though he accepted the role of Grey Warden, and then at the end, he's like "You have to kill Loghain or I leave" and there's no "We need to kill a dragon made out of reincarnation and this guy is a wrecking ball" option. I really dislike DAO, but I can admit it did a few things well, and Alistar is not one of them.
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Anagram posted... The BG and NWN series have no one like this
Unless you play some wildly crazy alignment in BG, the protagonist.
As for why they exist, you need a baseline to compare against. If your part was the insane asylum members from BG2, "crazy" would start feeling like your baseline.
Phase posted... Anagram posted... The BG and NWN series have no one like this
Unless you play some wildly crazy alignment in BG, the protagonist.
Actually, I thought about it further, and I would argue Yoshimo is it for BG2, if you take the Word of God that he came to Amn to search for his sister whom you kill in the first game.
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Anagram posted... Aveline's only banter like that is with Isabela. Her defining characteristics are "likes order," "very loyal.," and "thinks Isabela is a whore (and is right)." I actually kind of like Aveline because I think she's better written than the other "normal guy" characters, but she's definitely the most normal person in the party.
Aveline is also pretty kinky and horny, ha plus there's that mission where she wants you to hook her up with that dude. To me the most normal character there is probably somebody like Varric, but really I don't think the Dragon Age has any character as normal (aka bland) as Jacob.
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Psycho_Kenshin posted... Anagram posted... Aveline's only banter like that is with Isabela. Her defining characteristics are "likes order," "very loyal.," and "thinks Isabela is a whore (and is right)." I actually kind of like Aveline because I think she's better written than the other "normal guy" characters, but she's definitely the most normal person in the party.
Aveline is also pretty kinky and horny, ha plus there's that mission where she wants you to hook her up with that dude. To me the most normal character there is probably somebody like Varric, but really I don't think the Dragon Age has any character as normal (aka bland) as Jacob.
"Kinky and horny?" Dude, at one point, if you have Isabela in your party, Aveline will let it slip that after her husband died, she didn't have sex for seven years and wouldn't do it again until she got remarried. Wanting to hook up with that dude (whose only characterization was "that dude," by the way) was played as completely normal, just a little funny because she's so awkward at love.
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I haven't read the topic so I don't know if it was said but seriously the answer is girls. All of the girls that I know who play games like KotOR or ME are in love with Carth. One of them referred to Kaiden as Carth 2. They have to have that character so that the girl Shepards have someone to relate to and pick. As cool as Garrus is, I'm sure that most of them would prefer ending up with a human. It's the same reason that Ashley and Miranda exist
skull_bonek23 posted... I haven't read the topic so I don't know if it was said but seriously the answer is girls. All of the girls that I know who play games like KotOR or ME are in love with Carth. One of them referred to Kaiden as Carth 2. They have to have that character so that the girl Shepards have someone to relate to and pick. As cool as Garrus is, I'm sure that most of them would prefer ending up with a human. It's the same reason that Ashley and Miranda exist
But no one goes for Ashley. And I think most players go for Tali over Miranda, don't they?
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Alistair really annoyed me at the end of DA:O when
*spoilers*
he wouldn't accept me using Loghain to kill the archdemon and let Loghain die instead of any of us. Come on man it was a great plan
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Alistar is alright I guess, certainly better than the likes of Carth and Sky. He's probably the best character in his game, after Shale.
Wynn has no personality, Oghren is super boring, Sten is very boring though not quite as much, Zevran is just "What if Antonio Banderas was a bisexual elf?", and Morrigan is a tremendous *****. Leliana is kind of alright too I guess.
I think we can all agree that Barkspawn is the best character in the game though.
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Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: Hm. Barkspawn: Gr. Sten: You are a true warrior, and have my respec.t
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Alistair isn't really a normal guy. He's incredibly snarky and basically like a man-child. Guys like Carth and Jacob definitely fit the "average joe every man" type.
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TheRock1525 posted... Alistair isn't really a normal guy. He's incredibly snarky and basically like a man-child. Guys like Carth and Jacob definitely fit the "average joe every man" type.
Eh. I think he's close enough to count.
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Anagram posted... TheRock1525 posted... Alistair isn't really a normal guy. He's incredibly snarky and basically like a man-child. Guys like Carth and Jacob definitely fit the "average joe every man" type.
Eh. I think he's close enough to count.
I challenge this claim! This is what actually makes me like Alistair over the average "average joe" character, and actually makes him fun to keep around. Of course, it may annoy other people and that's all fine and dandy, but at least I care about Alistair.
Also, swooping is bad.
-- TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide "Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner
Anagram posted... posted... "Kinky and horny?" Dude, at one point, if you have Isabela in your party, Aveline will let it slip that after her husband died, she didn't have sex for seven years and wouldn't do it again until she got remarried. Wanting to hook up with that dude (whose only characterization was "that dude," by the way) was played as completely normal, just a little funny because she's so awkward at love.
They made a bunch of sex jokes and references to the sex after too. How she'd dominant in the bedroom, etc. Ha, so she used to be not horny but later became horny, she's got a character growth arc too. Just sayin', Aveline doesn't really fit the "normal guy" character role.
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