Board 8 > the gamecube era was the creative rock bottom of the zelda series

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WazzupGenius00 01/15/12 4:55:00 PM #51:	Also for the record there is no screen in Zelda 1's overworld that you can't access at the very start besides the two screens that require the raft. -- SuperNiceDog is a vicious breed and should be banned from further Guru contests. <cite>WazzupGenius00 posted [p:668297] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Also for the record there is no screen in Zelda 1's overworld that you can't access at the very start besides the two screens that require the raft. -- SuperNiceDog is a vicious breed and should be banned from further Guru contests. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 01/15/12 4:55:00 PM #52:	*foolm0ron posted...* They are both pretty unplayable though Nah. Zelda 1 plays just as well today as it did in the past. It's one of the few games from that era that holds up well today. I love Metroid, but Metroid 1 just isn't very fun to play. I'm sure you'll say the same about Zelda, but what can you do. -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." <cite>ZFS posted [p:668298] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> foolm0ron posted...They are both pretty unplayable thoughNah. Zelda 1 plays just as well today as it did in the past. It's one of the few games from that era that holds up well today. I love Metroid, but Metroid 1 just isn't very fun to play. I'm sure you'll say the same about Zelda, but what can you do. -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sorozone 01/15/12 4:56:00 PM #53:	From: Lightning Strikes \| #041 That is massively dumbing it down, and ignoring the fact that in Zelda 1... you couldn't go anywhere you want. Like later games in the series it confined you depending on certain items like the bridge, the raft, the flute, and there's pretty much one strict order through the entire game. It's no more non-restrictive than OoT, just a lot more basic about its restrictions. The one thing it does have in common with Souls is not telling you where to go, and that was true for every adventure game or RPG up until about 1990. And not necessarily a good thing! It can be a good thing, but it certainly wasn't in LoZ. Honestly, Souls is more similar to Metroid in the respects you mention. Except you know, Souls has that barrier too. It quite clearly tells you in both Demon's and in Dark that you can't continue until you do other things. Besides both being the obvious thing, a medieval setting. Both are non-linear, you don't have to do things in order to break down the barrier or barriers that prevent you from moving on. The beginning of both allow to choose the direction you want to go in right away, you'll either run into a simple path that is easy. or a path that is simply too hard and suicide to even attempt to go through. You then run into that barrier that tells you can't move on, in the case of Demon's you have to beat certain bosses first, in the case of Zelda you have to get the raft, flute or w.e item. In the case with Dark you have to obtain an item, and then you can move onto the last few areas. The problem with today's Zelda games is that everything is far too linear, there is nothing to explore because the world while much bigger than the original, is barren and has little very little secrets. You are forced to go on area first because the game tells you to, if you want to do something else first, it won't allow you. Whether it be needing an item you get from the first dungeon, or some NPC blocking your way until you get the sacred item. Legend of Zelda allowed me to get my sword right off the bat and either go north, west or east, until you came across the barrier and you need the key/item w.e it may be to move on. The same way Souls works; you get your item do your first stage, then move to where ever I want to go, until the barrier comes. Zelda may have become better in terms of creativity and design in their puzzles and dungeons, but their worlds have became linear, and lame. -- - <cite>Sorozone posted [p:668299] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| #041That is massively dumbing it down, and ignoring the fact that in Zelda 1... you couldn't go anywhere you want. Like later games in the series it confined you depending on certain items like the bridge, the raft, the flute, and there's pretty much one strict order through the entire game. It's no more non-restrictive than OoT, just a lot more basic about its restrictions. The one thing it does have in common with Souls is not telling you where to go, and that was true for every adventure game or RPG up until about 1990. And not necessarily a good thing! It can be a good thing, but it certainly wasn't in LoZ. Honestly, Souls is more similar to Metroid in the respects you mention.Except you know, Souls has that barrier too. It quite clearly tells you in both Demon's and in Dark that you can't continue until you do other things.Besides both being the obvious thing, a medieval setting. Both are non-linear, you don't have to do things in order to break down the barrier or barriers that prevent you from moving on. The beginning of both allow to choose the direction you want to go in right away, you'll either run into a simple path that is easy. or a path that is simply too hard and suicide to even attempt to go through. You then run into that barrier that tells you can't move on, in the case of Demon's you have to beat certain bosses first, in the case of Zelda you have to get the raft, flute or w.e item. In the case with Dark you have to obtain an item, and then you can move onto the last few areas.The problem with today's Zelda games is that everything is far too linear, there is nothing to explore because the world while much bigger than the original, is barren and has little very little secrets. You are forced to go on area first because the game tells you to, if you want to do something else first, it won't allow you. Whether it be needing an item you get from the first dungeon, or some NPC blocking your way until you get the sacred item. Legend of Zelda allowed me to get my sword right off the bat and either go north, west or east, until you came across the barrier and you need the key/item w.e it may be to move on. The same way Souls works; you get your item do your first stage, then move to where ever I want to go, until the barrier comes.Zelda may have become better in terms of creativity and design in their puzzles and dungeons, but their worlds have became linear, and lame. -- - </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 5:16:00 PM #54:	Man I always feel a little sick when the people on this board bash the original Metroid but shower the original Zelda with praise. the problem with this is that right through metroid prime 2 the series built on the original metroid in a logical fashion with the exception of fusion, zelda deviated from it's roots much earlier so the original still stands alone in a lot of respects where virtually everything about the original metroid was done better by another metroid game. metroid itself was the blueprint for that series, where zelda didn't really flesh out the blueprint until OoT...and for some reason metroid games that follow that formula tend to be better than zelda games that rehash OoT... <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668300] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Man I always feel a little sick when the people on this board bash the original Metroid but shower the original Zelda with praise.the problem with this is that right through metroid prime 2 the series built on the original metroid in a logical fashion with the exception of fusion, zelda deviated from it's roots much earlier so the original still stands alone in a lot of respects where virtually everything about the original metroid was done better by another metroid game. metroid itself was the blueprint for that series, where zelda didn't really flesh out the blueprint until OoT...and for some reason metroid games that follow that formula tend to be better than zelda games that rehash OoT... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 01/15/12 5:20:00 PM #55:	Metroid 1 is great. Combat/platforming is definitely wonky, but the adventuring is on Zelda 1 level of timeless. -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 <cite>pjbasis posted [p:668301] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Metroid 1 is great.Combat/platforming is definitely wonky, but the adventuring is on Zelda 1 level of timeless. -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 01/15/12 5:21:00 PM #56:	From: pjbasis \| Posted: 1/15/2012 8:20:18 PM \| #055 Metroid 1 is great. you know you can ignore somebody when they say this -- http://gamercards.exophase.com/54552.png <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:668302] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: pjbasis \| Posted: 1/15/2012 8:20:18 PM \| #055Metroid 1 is great.you know you can ignore somebody when they say this -- http://gamercards.exophase.com/54552.png </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 01/15/12 5:22:00 PM #57:	From: pjbasis \| #055 Combat/platforming is definitely wonky So basically the entire game -- _foolmo_ 'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28 <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:668303] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: pjbasis \| #055Combat/platforming is definitely wonkySo basically the entire game -- _foolmo_'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 01/15/12 5:23:00 PM #58:	also I beat Zelda 1 for the first time last year (3ds ambassador game) it's not up to LttP and beyond Zeldas (aside from the DS games of course), but it's still a very good game. It's nowhere near an unplayable disaster like Metroid 1. -- http://img.imgcake.com/GuessMyUserName/tumblrlrm6ckXo351qd30ipo2500gifta.gif <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:668304] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> also I beat Zelda 1 for the first time last year (3ds ambassador game)it's not up to LttP and beyond Zeldas (aside from the DS games of course), but it's still a very good game. It's nowhere near an unplayable disaster like Metroid 1. -- http://img.imgcake.com/GuessMyUserName/tumblrlrm6ckXo351qd30ipo2500gifta.gif </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 5:24:00 PM #59:	metroid 1 to me is like a more extreme form of ICO and SotC, brilliant concepts but the gameplay is so blemished that it's hard to enjoy fully, it took until super metroid for them to combine those ideas with gameplay that felt very fun...and then the series promptly went on 8 year hiatus :( <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668305] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> metroid 1 to me is like a more extreme form of ICO and SotC, brilliant concepts but the gameplay is so blemished that it's hard to enjoy fully, it took until super metroid for them to combine those ideas with gameplay that felt very fun...and then the series promptly went on 8 year hiatus :( </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 5:31:00 PM #60:	From: WazzupGenius00 \| #049 The flute thing I'll give you though, and it's weird that there's not a single hint-giver in the game who mentions it at all. Ah, but there is! "There Are Secrets Where Fairies Don't Live." Which is an obvious clue that something is up with that pond, and when you get there it shouldn't take too long to experiment and find the dungeon. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668306] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: WazzupGenius00 \| #049The flute thing I'll give you though, and it's weird that there's not a single hint-giver in the game who mentions it at all.Ah, but there is!"There Are Secrets Where Fairies Don't Live."Which is an obvious clue that something is up with that pond, and when you get there it shouldn't take too long to experiment and find the dungeon. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 01/15/12 5:36:00 PM #61:	*foolm0ron posted...* From: pjbasis \| #055 Combat/platforming is definitely wonky So basically the entire game Well sure, but it's not the end of the game. You can definitely get used to how it plays, and the level design more than makes up for it. I can't see how people can love Zelda 1 and hate Metroid 1 so much. Not saying they have to think they're equal, but it's a little lopsided! -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 <cite>pjbasis posted [p:668307] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> foolm0ron posted...From: pjbasis \| #055Combat/platforming is definitely wonkySo basically the entire gameWell sure, but it's not the end of the game. You can definitely get used to how it plays, and the level design more than makes up for it.I can't see how people can love Zelda 1 and hate Metroid 1 so much.Not saying they have to think they're equal, but it's a little lopsided! -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 5:39:00 PM #62:	I can't see how people can love Zelda 1 and hate Metroid 1 so much. Not saying they have to think they're equal, but it's a little lopsided! it's like I said, it's easier to cast metroid aside because future metroid's improved on it, they even remade it. zelda is different because the series changed a lot until OoT, the original zelda is still unique in that series so it escapes that feeling of obsolescence. <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668308] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> I can't see how people can love Zelda 1 and hate Metroid 1 so much.Not saying they have to think they're equal, but it's a little lopsided!it's like I said, it's easier to cast metroid aside because future metroid's improved on it, they even remade it. zelda is different because the series changed a lot until OoT, the original zelda is still unique in that series so it escapes that feeling of obsolescence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 01/15/12 5:42:00 PM #63:	Alright I get that. But I also don't try to compare games like that I guess. Metroid 1 will always be a good game to me no matter how improved they get. I'm sure some people won't understand, but I personally never understand people that "can't go back" to earlier entries because they played a newer better one. Things don't really age for me in that sense. -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 <cite>pjbasis posted [p:668309] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Alright I get that.But I also don't try to compare games like that I guess.Metroid 1 will always be a good game to me no matter how improved they get.I'm sure some people won't understand, but I personally never understand people that "can't go back" to earlier entries because they played a newer better one. Things don't really age for me in that sense. -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 5:43:00 PM #64:	Oh god the clues They actually made finding those things harder. Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series, but they're enjoyable. However, the concepts of both have been expanded upon. Yes, the Zelda series has stayed true to the original. It's just that the original isn't what a lot of people wanted it to be. It was always a linear game. The one thing that post-ALttP Zeldas are definitely different about that roughly fits the mold is a restrictive intro area. All of them have this, before (usually) opening up their whole worlds in the manner of Zelda 1. Which is to say you can access the whole overworld but not specific areas for dungeons and whatnot. For instance the sea and the sky become almost fully open very early on. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668310] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Oh god the cluesThey actually made finding those things harder.Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series, but they're enjoyable. However, the concepts of both have been expanded upon. Yes, the Zelda series has stayed true to the original. It's just that the original isn't what a lot of people wanted it to be. It was always a linear game.The one thing that post-ALttP Zeldas are definitely different about that roughly fits the mold is a restrictive intro area. All of them have this, before (usually) opening up their whole worlds in the manner of Zelda 1. Which is to say you can access the whole overworld but not specific areas for dungeons and whatnot. For instance the sea and the sky become almost fully open very early on. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 5:51:00 PM #65:	From: Lightning Strikes \| #064 It was always a linear game. I just don't get this at all. There are so many different orders you can beat the dungeons in. 1, 2, and 3 are all beatable ASAP, every item in the Overworld except the Magical Sword and 2 Heart Containers is accessible right off the bat without even going into a dungeon, and once you get the Stepladder then basically the world is yours to do as you please. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668311] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| #064It was always a linear game.I just don't get this at all. There are so many different orders you can beat the dungeons in. 1, 2, and 3 are all beatable ASAP, every item in the Overworld except the Magical Sword and 2 Heart Containers is accessible right off the bat without even going into a dungeon, and once you get the Stepladder then basically the world is yours to do as you please. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sorozone 01/15/12 5:52:00 PM #66:	I'm pretty sure he just doesn't understand what linearity means in a video game.... -- - <cite>Sorozone posted [p:668312] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> I'm pretty sure he just doesn't understand what linearity means in a video game.... -- - </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scotted4 01/15/12 5:54:00 PM #67:	*tereziWright posted...* WW best Zelda get out -- GamF@qs = Large amounts of text and merry-goround- debates that normally end with going off topic and talking about something that nobody cares about --Lambent7 <cite>scotted4 posted [p:668313] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> tereziWright posted...WW best Zeldaget out -- GamF@qs = Large amounts of text and merry-goround- debates that normally end with going off topic and talking about something that nobody cares about --Lambent7 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 5:57:00 PM #68:	From: JaKyL25 \| #305 I just don't get this at all. There are so many different orders you can beat the dungeons in. 1, 2, and 3 are all beatable ASAP, every item in the Overworld except the Magical Sword and 2 Heart Containers is accessible right off the bat without even going into a dungeon, and once you get the Stepladder then basically the world is yours to do as you please. Bam. Don't forget the raft. And that's not mentioning the later dungeons which you need certain items to access. Please note that I'm not saying that it's completely linear. Just that there's a definite linear structure to it, comparable to other Zelda games. There are certain parts of other games in the series that can be done in any order, and other games in the series that give you the whole overworld early on. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668314] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: JaKyL25 \| #305I just don't get this at all. There are so many different orders you can beat the dungeons in. 1, 2, and 3 are all beatable ASAP, every item in the Overworld except the Magical Sword and 2 Heart Containers is accessible right off the bat without even going into a dungeon, and once you get the Stepladder then basically the world is yours to do as you please.Bam. Don't forget the raft. And that's not mentioning the later dungeons which you need certain items to access.Please note that I'm not saying that it's completely linear. Just that there's a definite linear structure to it, comparable to other Zelda games. There are certain parts of other games in the series that can be done in any order, and other games in the series that give you the whole overworld early on. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 5:59:00 PM #69:	From: Liquid Wind \| #308 Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series, phantom hourglass is by far the worst zelda. I'm not going into other m here because it's apples and oranges, metroid has gameplay problems, other m has narrative and consistency problems, which is worse is entirely based on your on biases there....though metroid II could definitely be a case for being worse than metroid in all the same areas metroid failed at... Phantom Hourglass is the most flawed Zelda. But it's still better than the NES games and Four Swords because it does the good stuff (puzzles, dungeons, boss battles) a lot better. For all its faults, it still does a lot of things right. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668315] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Liquid Wind \| #308Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series,phantom hourglass is by far the worst zelda. I'm not going into other m here because it's apples and oranges, metroid has gameplay problems, other m has narrative and consistency problems, which is worse is entirely based on your on biases there....though metroid II could definitely be a case for being worse than metroid in all the same areas metroid failed at...Phantom Hourglass is the most flawed Zelda. But it's still better than the NES games and Four Swords because it does the good stuff (puzzles, dungeons, boss battles) a lot better. For all its faults, it still does a lot of things right. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 6:00:00 PM #70:	Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series, phantom hourglass is by far the worst zelda. I'm not going into other m here because it's apples and oranges, metroid has gameplay problems, other m has narrative and consistency problems, which is worse is entirely based on your own biases there....though metroid II could definitely be a case for being worse than metroid in all the same areas metroid failed at... <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668316] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Just for the record Metroid>The Legend of Zelda, though both are good. However, Metroid holds up better today. Both are the worst entries (not counting Four Swords) in their series,phantom hourglass is by far the worst zelda. I'm not going into other m here because it's apples and oranges, metroid has gameplay problems, other m has narrative and consistency problems, which is worse is entirely based on your own biases there....though metroid II could definitely be a case for being worse than metroid in all the same areas metroid failed at... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 6:04:00 PM #71:	From: Lightning Strikes \| #069 Bam. Don't forget the raft. And that's not mentioning the later dungeons which you need certain items to access. Please note that I'm not saying that it's completely linear. Just that there's a definite linear structure to it, comparable to other Zelda games. There are certain parts of other games in the series that can be done in any order, and other games in the series that give you the whole overworld early one. You need the Raft to get the Stepladder, so I didn't see the need to mention it. Really the only "dungeon order" rules are as follows (assuming you don't just go in, grab the item, and leave. If you do that, you can beat them in ANY order but that's not very logical): 1 must be done before 6 or 8. 3 must be done before 4, 5, 6, or 7. 4 must be done before 5, 6, or 7. 5 must be done before 7. That's really not all that restrictive at all! -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668317] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| #069Bam. Don't forget the raft. And that's not mentioning the later dungeons which you need certain items to access.Please note that I'm not saying that it's completely linear. Just that there's a definite linear structure to it, comparable to other Zelda games. There are certain parts of other games in the series that can be done in any order, and other games in the series that give you the whole overworld early one.You need the Raft to get the Stepladder, so I didn't see the need to mention it.Really the only "dungeon order" rules are as follows (assuming you don't just go in, grab the item, and leave. If you do that, you can beat them in ANY order but that's not very logical):1 must be done before 6 or 8.3 must be done before 4, 5, 6, or 7.4 must be done before 5, 6, or 7.5 must be done before 7.That's really not all that restrictive at all! -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WazzupGenius00 01/15/12 6:05:00 PM #72:	You don't need the stepladder for s* on the overworld. Look at the map. It just makes it easier. It's needed to get around in some of the later dungeons (interestingly enough it's not absolutely necessary in the final one though) but that's it. -- http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8840/crashsig.jpg <cite>WazzupGenius00 posted [p:668318] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> You don't need the stepladder for s* on the overworld. Look at the map. It just makes it easier. It's needed to get around in some of the later dungeons (interestingly enough it's not absolutely necessary in the final one though) but that's it. -- http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8840/crashsig.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 01/15/12 6:07:00 PM #73:	We are at such odds over Zelda 1 that I'm not sure we can actually meet in the middle. The idea that SS is comparably linear to Zelda 1 is just something that I can't even begin to understand. We have very different definitions of 'linear structure'! -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." <cite>ZFS posted [p:668319] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> We are at such odds over Zelda 1 that I'm not sure we can actually meet in the middle. The idea that SS is comparably linear to Zelda 1 is just something that I can't even begin to understand. We have very different definitions of 'linear structure'! -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 6:08:00 PM #74:	From: WazzupGenius00 \| #072 You don't need the stepladder for s* on the overworld. One heart container. <_< -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668320] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: WazzupGenius00 \| #072You don't need the stepladder for s* on the overworld.One heart container. <_< -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 6:16:00 PM #75:	From: ZFS \| #353 We are at such odds over Zelda 1 that I'm not sure we can actually meet in the middle. The idea that SS is comparably linear to Zelda 1 is just something that I can't even begin to understand. We have very different definitions of 'linear structure'! After the prologue in SS, you have access to the entire overworld except for the thunderhead. The ground is really just several very elaborate dungeons. That is just overworld structure mind you, completely ignoring these dungeons. Speaking of dungeons, LoZ's dungeons are amazingly linear. Only the final one requires any kind of exploration whatever. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668321] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: ZFS \| #353We are at such odds over Zelda 1 that I'm not sure we can actually meet in the middle. The idea that SS is comparably linear to Zelda 1 is just something that I can't even begin to understand. We have very different definitions of 'linear structure'!After the prologue in SS, you have access to the entire overworld except for the thunderhead. The ground is really just several very elaborate dungeons. That is just overworld structure mind you, completely ignoring these dungeons.Speaking of dungeons, LoZ's dungeons are amazingly linear. Only the final one requires any kind of exploration whatever. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 6:21:00 PM #76:	I can agree that the dungeons are linear (I wouldn't say "amazingly linear" but they are definitely meant to be completed on a certain path), but I don't see that as a bad thing. Non-linear overworld/linear dungeons is a good balance for me. Anyway, since it seems we're at an impasse when it comes to Zelda 1, you never addressed Zelda 2 and why you think it is also not that creative as compared to later iterations of the series. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668322] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> I can agree that the dungeons are linear (I wouldn't say "amazingly linear" but they are definitely meant to be completed on a certain path), but I don't see that as a bad thing. Non-linear overworld/linear dungeons is a good balance for me.Anyway, since it seems we're at an impasse when it comes to Zelda 1, you never addressed Zelda 2 and why you think it is also not that creative as compared to later iterations of the series. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 6:22:00 PM #77:	AoL is kind of a forgotten game, it's "that game that the melee hyrule temple theme came from" to most people(though I gotta say I prefer the fire emblem medley) <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668323] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> AoL is kind of a forgotten game, it's "that game that the melee hyrule temple theme came from" to most people(though I gotta say I prefer the fire emblem medley) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GuessMyUserName 01/15/12 6:25:00 PM #78:	From: Lightning Strikes \| Posted: 1/15/2012 8:43:30 PM \| #064 Metroid holds up better today am I seriously reading this? seriously? Metroid 1? Hold up? Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays. -- http://img.imgcake.com/GuessMyUserName/ibnmU5aMKGIk3lgifqu.gif <cite>GuessMyUserName posted [p:668324] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| Posted: 1/15/2012 8:43:30 PM \| #064Metroid holds up better todayam I seriously reading this?seriously?Metroid 1? Hold up?Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays. -- http://img.imgcake.com/GuessMyUserName/ibnmU5aMKGIk3lgifqu.gif </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sorozone 01/15/12 6:31:00 PM #79:	From: Lightning Strikes \| #075 After the prologue in SS, you have access to the entire overworld except for the thunderhead. The ground is really just several very elaborate dungeons. That is just overworld structure mind you, completely ignoring these dungeons. The overworld has nothing to do with the original's linearity or one's after it. What makes the Zelda's after it much more linear is the fact that everything is set for you to do stuff in a specific order. OoT, you have to do Deku first, you have to do Dodongo second, you have to do Jabu Jabu 3rd. It than very briefly gives you a chance to either do forest than fire, I believe those temples can be done in any order, but then you forces you back into following the dungeon structure. SS you are forced to do Faron Woods first, Eldin second, and Lanryru third. What people are wanting is to access the dungeons at any time without structure. Something the original does very well, and much, much better than later installments. Really has nothing to do with it's over world, but its over world is still much better than most, especially SS. I want able to access the mountains, the river area without the need of blowing up rocks or some crap. -- - <cite>Sorozone posted [p:668325] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| #075After the prologue in SS, you have access to the entire overworld except for the thunderhead. The ground is really just several very elaborate dungeons. That is just overworld structure mind you, completely ignoring these dungeons.The overworld has nothing to do with the original's linearity or one's after it. What makes the Zelda's after it much more linear is the fact that everything is set for you to do stuff in a specific order. OoT, you have to do Deku first, you have to do Dodongo second, you have to do Jabu Jabu 3rd. It than very briefly gives you a chance to either do forest than fire, I believe those temples can be done in any order, but then you forces you back into following the dungeon structure. SS you are forced to do Faron Woods first, Eldin second, and Lanryru third.What people are wanting is to access the dungeons at any time without structure. Something the original does very well, and much, much better than later installments. Really has nothing to do with it's over world, but its over world is still much better than most, especially SS. I want able to access the mountains, the river area without the need of blowing up rocks or some crap. -- - </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 6:32:00 PM #80:	I was sidestepping Zelda 2 admittedly, because while I can recall some games which did the exact same thing it did, I honestly can't remember what they were called. Oh it's certainly different from LoZ, but that doesn't make it creative. It's like that new XCOM game. It's a wide departure from the series... By being a generic FPS (though not that extreme of course, but the same principle). It is certainly the more creative of the two though, largely because of its combat, which was very good and I'm glad they used similar principles for SS (though this time it actually worked). From: GuessMyUserName \| #358 am I seriously reading this? seriously? Metroid 1? Hold up? Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays. I played Metroid after almost every other game in the series, and I had a blast. It's comparatively simple, but fun. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668326] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> I was sidestepping Zelda 2 admittedly, because while I can recall some games which did the exact same thing it did, I honestly can't remember what they were called. Oh it's certainly different from LoZ, but that doesn't make it creative. It's like that new XCOM game. It's a wide departure from the series... By being a generic FPS (though not that extreme of course, but the same principle).It is certainly the more creative of the two though, largely because of its combat, which was very good and I'm glad they used similar principles for SS (though this time it actually worked).From: GuessMyUserName \| #358am I seriously reading this?seriously?Metroid 1? Hold up?Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays.I played Metroid after almost every other game in the series, and I had a blast. It's comparatively simple, but fun. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 6:33:00 PM #81:	Metroid 1? Hold up? Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays. I'm inclined to agree. I think saying a game has "aged badly" is usually disingenuous and just being too lazy to really articulate why you dislike a game, just like the "nostalgia goggles" argument(LMS, where you at now? disliking WW and TP isn't a nostalgia thing, they're just subpar zelda games, SS brought the greatness back). I've played many games years after their release and still loved them(link's awakening, my second favorite zelda game, didn't play it until 2006), people say FFVII aged badly and I still loved it in 2004, and yet even I would say metroid "aged badly" <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668327] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Metroid 1? Hold up?Metroid 1 is the absolute worst game for aging in the history of all video games. It's a complete wreck to play nowadays.I'm inclined to agree. I think saying a game has "aged badly" is usually disingenuous and just being too lazy to really articulate why you dislike a game, just like the "nostalgia goggles" argument(LMS, where you at now? disliking WW and TP isn't a nostalgia thing, they're just subpar zelda games, SS brought the greatness back). I've played many games years after their release and still loved them(link's awakening, my second favorite zelda game, didn't play it until 2006), people say FFVII aged badly and I still loved it in 2004, and yet even I would say metroid "aged badly" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZFS 01/15/12 6:38:00 PM #82:	The Sky in SS is nice to fly around in, but comparing it to the overworld on Zelda 1 is kind of a joke. There are a bunch of small islands with chests that you are locked out of until you find their corresponding Goddess Cube on the ground areas, which are inaccessible until the game allows opens them up to you -- and when it does, it's in a strict order that you can't deviate from. It's the same every time, every play through. That's why I don't see how they're comparably linear. That's a big leap to say they're similarly structured. -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." <cite>ZFS posted [p:668328] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> The Sky in SS is nice to fly around in, but comparing it to the overworld on Zelda 1 is kind of a joke. There are a bunch of small islands with chests that you are locked out of until you find their corresponding Goddess Cube on the ground areas, which are inaccessible until the game allows opens them up to you -- and when it does, it's in a strict order that you can't deviate from. It's the same every time, every play through. That's why I don't see how they're comparably linear. That's a big leap to say they're similarly structured. -- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 6:38:00 PM #83:	The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668329] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lightning Strikes 01/15/12 6:41:00 PM #84:	From: JaKyL25 \| #403 The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic. The script Other things too, but that worst of all. -- Something something something ^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig <cite>Lightning Strikes posted [p:668330] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: JaKyL25 \| #403The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic.The scriptOther things too, but that worst of all. -- Something something something^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Liquid Wind 01/15/12 6:41:00 PM #85:	The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic. I wouldn't even say that. primitive doesn't necessarily mean outdated, only when it interferes with gameplay is this universally true. you could still make a game today that looks like FFVII and it would simply be an artistic choice, just like how cave story is modeled after SNES and genesis games. <cite>Liquid Wind posted [p:668331] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> The only thing about FFVII that has "aged badly" is the overworld graphics. The rest of the game is still fantastic.I wouldn't even say that. primitive doesn't necessarily mean outdated, only when it interferes with gameplay is this universally true. you could still make a game today that looks like FFVII and it would simply be an artistic choice, just like how cave story is modeled after SNES and genesis games. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JaKyL25 01/15/12 6:45:00 PM #86:	From: Lightning Strikes \| #084 The script Other things too, but that worst of all. If you mean the weird phrasings due to a wonky translation, those haven't aged badly. Those were never good! -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg <cite>JaKyL25 posted [p:668332] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> From: Lightning Strikes \| #084The scriptOther things too, but that worst of all.If you mean the weird phrasings due to a wonky translation, those haven't aged badly. Those were never good! -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 01/16/12 12:22:00 AM #87:	The script was never good, dude! -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.png http://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:668333] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> The script was never good, dude! -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.pnghttp://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 01/16/12 12:22:00 AM #88:	Well, as far as how bad the translation was anyway. -- http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:668334] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Well, as far as how bad the translation was anyway. -- http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gifhttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 01/16/12 12:26:00 AM #89:	Hey Lightning, do you think FFXIII and FFI are similarly linear? -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 <cite>pjbasis posted [p:668335] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> Hey Lightning, do you think FFXIII and FFI are similarly linear? -- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ViviffTheMobile 01/16/12 1:16:00 AM #90:	The f* with this linearity talk with Zelda 1? Grabbing the Lion Key out of dungeon 8 and lol-ing at the rest of the dungeons for days! Metroid 1 is a trainwreck of poor design and bad gameplay. The greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy is powerless to stop things that crawl at her slowly because there's no way to shoot low. Get hype. -- The King of GameFAQs Brawl posting from his phone. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/board8/images/8/8b/ViviffChampS1.jpg <cite>ViviffTheMobile posted [p:668336] in the gamecu... [t:61660810]...</cite> <quote> The f* with this linearity talk with Zelda 1? Grabbing the Lion Key out of dungeon 8 and lol-ing at the rest of the dungeons for days! Metroid 1 is a trainwreck of poor design and bad gameplay. The greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy is powerless to stop things that crawl at her slowly because there's no way to shoot low. Get hype. -- The King of GameFAQs Brawl posting from his phone.http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/board8/images/8/8b/ViviffChampS1.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > the gamecube era was the creative rock bottom of the zelda series (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > the gamecube era was the creative rock bottom of the zelda series