Buchanan did nothing to try to stop the Civil War. I'd say that's "pretty bad."
--
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2636/ivotedphoenixyi0.png
No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
Board 8 > Assuming Obama gets re-elected, what will he have to do
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LordoftheMorons 01/17/12 7:52:00 PM #51: |
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 7:53:00 PM #52: |
LordoftheMorons posted...
Metal_DK posted... FDR was an excellent president (besides the whole Japanese internment camp thing; that was really indefensible). Don't agree with Truman being up there; actually, I probably don't agree with 7-10. and how was truman bad? Or are you one of those people who thinks dropping the atomic bombs was horrible and doesn't realize how the other option would of ruined Japan for decades longer? Hell the reason why gaming survived the crash of 1983 (and why this site even exists for us to debate on) was a result of the atomic bombs being dropped. The need to drop the first one was debatable. The second was absolutely unnecessary. Also are you seriously bringing up video games as a justification? "My entertainment is totally worth 60k-80k people dying" The Japanese were warned during Potsdam of utter destruction and refused to surrender. They were also notoriously tenacious at the Battle of Okinawa, indicating that a land invasion would have been ugly. The bombings themselves weren't even that destructive in terms of lives lost relative to the Tokyo Fire Bombings. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 7:55:00 PM #53: |
Honestly, i d put Obama on the same tier as Grover Cleveland,which makes him top half, possibly top 15. nothing exceptional, but hes gotten a DECENT amount done. not everyone gets the kind of congressional support that FDR got.
ANyway Buchanan is Bottom 1, Grant and Harding were merely corrupt and ineffectualy. Theyve got nothing on "let the country fall apart and did nothing" I'd consider Pearce for second worst alongside Grant/Harding. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metal_DK 01/17/12 7:57:00 PM #54: |
The need to drop the first one was debatable. The second was absolutely unnecessary. Also are you seriously bringing up video games as a justification? "My entertainment is totally worth 60k-80k people dying"
what im saying is this If we didnt nuke japan 1) The amount of US casualties in ww2 would have doubled by most estimations. The usa made 500,000 purple hearts for operation downfall (also known as operation olympic). To this day the us still has about 120,000 left. 2) Japan's casualties would have been larger through operation olympic than the atomic bombs 3) Russia would have gotten involved, even if we didnt want them to. 4) Japan would have been split something similar to Germany, and would have crippled their economy since the only big resource they have is technology innovation. -- Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 7:59:00 PM #55: |
We absolutely did not NEED to drop the first nuke. Truman being a grade A Ass hat is the only reason things got to the point they did with the Soviet Union, and Japan actually sued for conditional surrender before this.
Their Condition? Hirohito stays on the throne. After the Nuke, we sued for peace, even allowing a sole condition- Hirohito remained on the throne. It was LITERALLY pointless. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masterplum 01/17/12 8:03:00 PM #56: |
Uh, pretty sure historians near unanimously agree that dropping the nuke took less lives then a land invasion would have.
Have you read about Japanese fox holes? They didn't surrender. Ever. They would have fought to the last soldier. -- yE frE me Kweku Ananse Papa me:http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/masterplumgm3.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 8:04:00 PM #57: |
Considering that by the time in the war that the first nuke was dropped, Japan was conscripting their kids and elderly into makeshift militias armed with whatever the crap they could arm them with, our options were basically to nuke them, or literally go butcher their civilian population hand to hand. Nice choice
-- We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:07:00 PM #58: |
Actually they dont. Like at all.
Look up the controversy over the Smithsonian Museums Air and Space Museum's exhibit on the Enola Gay (the B52 Superfortress that dropped the bomb) historians wanted to include the argument that in fact it was completely unnecessary, that the casualty figures flaunted are grossly exaggerated, and that even if they weren't that a deal identical to the one we ultimately gave the japanese was on the table BEFORE we nuked them. EDIT: It was the media and Newt Gingrich's Congress that went POSTAL over this and ultimately made them drop the exhibit's interpretive aspects. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metal_DK 01/17/12 8:08:00 PM #59: |
Look up the controversy over the Smithsonian Museums Air and Space Museum's exhibit on the Enola Gay (the B52 Superfortress that dropped the bomb) historians wanted to include the argument that in fact it was completely unnecessary, that the casualty figures flaunted are grossly exaggerated, and that even if they weren't that a deal identical to the one we ultimately gave the japanese was on the table BEFORE we nuked them.
even if you do believe that, we still would have split japan similar to germany, causing a nation like japan to become economically crippled for a long time. -- Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ExThaNemesis 01/17/12 8:09:00 PM #60: |
I love watching Americans try to claim that there wasn't another option before dropping a nuclear weapon on innocent people. Insane.
-- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/ExTha/10and14.jpg "What about the lion from Lion King?" - SuperNiceDog ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:10:00 PM #61: |
Why?
Russia had declared war, sure, but there were no ground troops in the main portion of Japan. The reason Germany was split was split down the lines of occupation. No such conditions would have existed in Japan had we just accepted their surrender. And even if we HAD split Japan into 3 like we did with Germany, due to the lack of presence and the lack of relevence Japan had to Russia in terms of popular ideology, they probably would have handed it back over to the Japanese in due time like they did in Austria. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:12:00 PM #62: |
From: ExThaNemesis | #060 This is why I am going into public history, not that it even matters, people believe what they want to believe even with the facts presented to them to the contrary. Its our great sin, we bombed Japan to flex our muscles at the USSR, end of story. There was no REAL justification for doing so. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LordoftheMorons 01/17/12 8:15:00 PM #63: |
Yep, totally unnecessary. No one has given a good reason for the second bomb either, given the first peace deal was declined.
-- http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2636/ivotedphoenixyi0.png No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ExThaNemesis 01/17/12 8:16:00 PM #64: |
And if it's true that we ignored a cease-fire in favor of nuking their country all because we didn't want to leave their man on the throne, we're even worse.
Of course that should surprise no one. We've historically been one of the worst countries to ever exist. -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/ExTha/10and14.jpg "What about the lion from Lion King?" - SuperNiceDog ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masterplum 01/17/12 8:17:00 PM #65: |
From: edwardsdv | #062 Your insane. You can argue that the con's outweighed the pro's but arguing there was zero justification is ridiculous Just did some quick research, apparently Firebombingings of Tokyo had already taken 100,000 lives prior to the bomb being used and that didn't have any effect politically. Japan didn't' want to give up -- Four Civil Union Ceremonies and a Funeral just doesn't have the same ring to it - yoshifan823 http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/masterplumgm3.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0ron 01/17/12 8:18:00 PM #66: |
I would say it was a legit scientific experiment to see how much damage it could really do.
There had to be a bomb dropped SOMEWHERE. You couldn't have the MAD of the Cold War without knowing the true power of nukes. If it wasn't the US on Japan, it would've been Russia on someone else, or US somewhere else. -- _foolmo_ 'Most people at least try to say something funny. See foolmo's post as an example.' - The Real Truth ... Copied to Clipboard!
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red sox 777 01/17/12 8:22:00 PM #67: |
Buchanan was probably willing to let the South go. Lincoln also did not do anything to stop the Civil War.
-- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masterplum 01/17/12 8:23:00 PM #68: |
From: ExThaNemesis | #064  Egyptian slave labor? Rome's treatement of non citizens? Isabella of Spain? Aztec human sacrifice? The Mongolian invasion? -- Four Civil Union Ceremonies and a Funeral just doesn't have the same ring to it - yoshifan823 http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/masterplumgm3.jpg?tti ... Copied to Clipboard!
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PartOfYourWorld 01/17/12 8:23:00 PM #69: |
From: ExThaNemesis | #060 Yeah, it's pretty funny. I've listened to this debate multiple times in multiple forums (online, work, college courses, high school courses). While I don't claim to be particularly well-informed, I'm always entertained because every single time it's brought up, it takes no more than five seconds for someone to cut the air and yell BUT WE HAD TO BECAUSE BECAUSE BECAUSE. And every time, there is supermajority agreement with only a few dissenters. I think most Americans are absolutely convinced at this and will not even consider the possibility that alternative actions may have reaped better results. The only time I've seen many people start to consider an alternative (ie: dropping em may not have necessarily been the best/only option) was in a US/Japanese history class, and that was after our professor lectured and led an hour-long discussion about it. Of course, she was probably a brainwashed liberal what could she have known (apart from what 60 years of studying Japanese history would have taught her) As an aside, consider that Osama bin Laden had repeatedly, over the course of years, used the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as justification for attacking America and as his proof that we are an empirical and brutal nation. So like if we didn't drop the bombs, maybe we wouldn't have Nintendo and Playstation, BUT MAYBE WE WOULDN'T HAVE 9/11 EITHER. HOW MUCH CAN OCARINA BE WORTH -- Yoblazer: http://i33.tinypic.com/ml36gl_th.gif Watch and you'll see... SuperNiceDog own me... in the Guru! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 8:24:00 PM #70: |
The Potsdam Declaration didn't even go into specifics about Hirohito, as far as I remember. It did have a vague 'You will remove the influence of those who deceived you into world conquest' or something like that
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Mershaaay 01/17/12 8:27:00 PM #71: |
We should have nuked Tokyo while we were at it to prevent lolicon tbqh
-- SephirothG, channeling awesomeness from Mershiness. The Resurrection ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:29:00 PM #72: |
From: ExThaNemesis | #064 Its even worse because we left him on the throne anyway -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 8:29:00 PM #73: |
...which, considering Hirohito was pretty much the only one who *wanted* to surrender, while the rest of the Japanese government ran around yelling 'Ha, we can fight forever, even if our population is literally feeding themselves on rats', yeah
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:33:00 PM #74: |
From: masterplum | #067 Hey I hear the United States led a wholesale genocide against hundreds of nations worth of native americans, and even now has the survivors living on some of the worst land in the country. And had slavery. And tortures people. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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red sox 777 01/17/12 8:36:00 PM #75: |
Why wouldn't we have Nintendo and Playstation? I mean, I know video games could be gone because of butterfly effect, but it doesn't seem that the atomic bombs made Nintendo/Sony making video games any more likely at the time.
I would rank the atom bombs at the same level as the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden (both of which killed more people than the atom bombs). On a similar level would be the Mongol genocide of Khorasan (Eastern Persia). These are brutal and highly effective ways of winning wars. These tactics are a big reason that the Allies won World War II. I don't know if they can be considered moral in the interest of saving more lives, but I think this is a reality that we need to come to terms with. Fighting wars while attempting to protect the people of the nation we are attacking produces results like Vietnam and Iraq. Before we enter into a war, we should ask ourselves how far we are willing to go to win, and if the answer is not far enough to produce a win with which we would be satisfied, we should just avoid the war. We need to abandon the pretense that we can fight wars in which we lose little and the country we attack loses little, but only the regime we are toppling loses a lot. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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red sox 777 01/17/12 8:39:00 PM #76: |
Also, I want to note that the Mongols, almost alone among the nations of their time, did not torture. They meted out death, but not torture.
-- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ExThaNemesis 01/17/12 8:42:00 PM #77: |
From: edwardsdv | #074 Oh but we're just completely awesome and we had reasons for doing all of those things. Great reasons. -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/ExTha/10and14.jpg "What about the lion from Lion King?" - SuperNiceDog ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metal_DK 01/17/12 8:44:00 PM #78: |
Why wouldn't we have Nintendo and Playstation? I mean, I know video games could be gone because of butterfly effect, but it doesn't seem that the atomic bombs made Nintendo/Sony making video games any more likely at the time.
I would rank the atom bombs at the same level as the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden (both of which killed more people than the atom bombs). On a similar level would be the Mongol genocide of Khorasan (Eastern Persia). These are brutal and highly effective ways of winning wars. These tactics are a big reason that the Allies won World War II. I don't know if they can be considered moral in the interest of saving more lives, but I think this is a reality that we need to come to terms with. Fighting wars while attempting to protect the people of the nation we are attacking produces results like Vietnam and Iraq. Before we enter into a war, we should ask ourselves how far we are willing to go to win, and if the answer is not far enough to produce a win with which we would be satisfied, we should just avoid the war. We need to abandon the pretense that we can fight wars in which we lose little and the country we attack loses little, but only the regime we are toppling loses a lot. its not so much gaming per se, but its the fact that the technology boom of japan in the 80s might not have happened if russia and the usa invaded japan and changed the country's entire lifestyle. -- Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 8:46:00 PM #79: |
The Aztecs were just a bunch of dicks, really. It's the real reason Cortez killed them so easily. They spent so much time abducting and sacrificing their neighbors, when the Spanish rolled in, those neighbors were all 'Yeah, *please* go kill those ****heads'
-- We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metal_DK 01/17/12 8:47:00 PM #80: |
im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s.
But the atomic bomb droppings were not black and white "usa being an ass to another country". -- Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 8:49:00 PM #81: |
Although America has a sordid history, it nonetheless perpetuated limited and constitutional government.
This is in contrast to Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, who offered the world nothing but misery. America is certainly better than Imperial Spain as well. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 01/17/12 8:50:00 PM #82: |
limited and constitutional government.
not in the last 110 years... -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:52:00 PM #83: |
From: masterplum | #065 Except, and precisely to the point here, they DID have a political effect, there was a deal on the table. From: Metal_DK | #080 im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s. and yes they were. We were being a huge ass to Japan, as part of our overall scheme of waving our dick at the USSR. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 8:53:00 PM #84: |
SmartMuffin posted...
limited and constitutional government. not in the last 110 years... True enough, but the American constitution further developed the English Bill of Rights. To act as if we're somehow on the level of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany is asinine. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 01/17/12 8:54:00 PM #85: |
True enough, but the American constitution further developed the English Bill of Rights. To act as if we're somehow on the level of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany is asinine.
That's what you get for arguing with Communists ;) -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 8:56:00 PM #86: |
edwardsdv posted...
From: masterplum | #065 Your insane. You can argue that the con's outweighed the pro's but arguing there was zero justification is ridiculous Just did some quick research, apparently Firebombingings of Tokyo had already taken 100,000 lives prior to the bomb being used and that didn't have any effect politically. Japan didn't' want to give up Except, and precisely to the point here, they DID have a political effect, there was a deal on the table. From: Metal_DK | #080 im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s. But the atomic bomb droppings were not black and white "usa being an ass to another country". im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s. But the atomic bomb droppings were not black and white "usa being an ass to another country". and yes they were. We were being a huge ass to Japan, as part of our overall scheme of waving our dick at the USSR. You're forgetting how brutal the Japanese were in China and how much America resented them for Pearl Harbor. Japan literally seemed like a nation of evil at the time, worthy of punishment. Furthermore, targeting civilians was simply the nature of the war that both the Axis and the Allies engaged in. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 8:58:00 PM #87: |
And yet again, when Japan was literally mobilizing their starving citizenry to fight, they were essentially going to *force* the US into that kind of war
-- We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 8:58:00 PM #88: |
From: dethfdddddh | #084 Ahh yes, the DEMOCRACY argument. Anything the US does is ok, because DEMOCRACY is an inherent good in this world of evil. Nevermind, that Rome the Republic had just as many issues as Rome the Empire morally and that the development of monarchy and empire grew out of the ineffectiveness of popular franchise. That a democractically elected government CHOSE hitler. That, in theory, Stalin was empowered on the local level by the Soviets. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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redrocket 01/17/12 8:59:00 PM #89: |
edwardsdv posted...
From: masterplum | #065 Your insane. You can argue that the con's outweighed the pro's but arguing there was zero justification is ridiculous Just did some quick research, apparently Firebombingings of Tokyo had already taken 100,000 lives prior to the bomb being used and that didn't have any effect politically. Japan didn't' want to give up Except, and precisely to the point here, they DID have a political effect, there was a deal on the table. From: Metal_DK | #080 im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s. But the atomic bomb droppings were not black and white "usa being an ass to another country". im first in line to attack the us when its rightfully so. We were dicks to africans, turning people into a business. We were dicks to native americans with our "manifest destiny". We were dicks to japanese with the camps in ww2. We have been massive douchebags to most of the world post ww2, especially since the mid 80s. But the atomic bomb droppings were not black and white "usa being an ass to another country". and yes they were. We were being a huge ass to Japan, as part of our overall scheme of waving our dick at the USSR. I'm gonna go on record here and state that even if the only reason we dropped the bombs was to intimidate the Soviets, it was more than justified. The Soviet Union post WWII was a much bigger potential threat to the world than Hitler ever was. Someone had to keep them in check, and the rest of the world should be damn grateful that we stepped up to the plate. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 9:01:00 PM #90: |
edwardsdv posted...
From: dethfdddddh | #084 True enough, but the American constitution further developed the English Bill of Rights. To act as if we're somehow on the level of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany is asinine. Ahh yes, the DEMOCRACY argument. Anything the US does is ok, because DEMOCRACY is an inherent good in this world of evil. Nevermind, that Rome the Republic had just as many issues as Rome the Empire morally and that the development of monarchy and empire grew out of the ineffectiveness of popular franchise. That a democractically elected government CHOSE hitler. That, in theory, Stalin was empowered on the local level by the Soviets. When did I say anything the US did is okay? I admitted that the nation has a sordid history filled with mass murder and imperialism. That being said, we gave the world the Constitution and proof that limited and representative government can work in an era filled with monarchs. That's more than Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan ever did. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 9:03:00 PM #91: |
From: dethfdddddh | #086 I doubt China meant THAT much to an America that didnt really care about foreign affairs overall. Pearl harbor, sure we were mad about, but we had them beat just by making it to Japan at all. And even if that IS true, that we wished to punish them, we had surely already done that with the aforementioned firebombings. The nuke was unnecessarily brutal, which its inventors were sure to inform Truman of. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 9:05:00 PM #92: |
edwardsdv posted...
From: dethfdddddh | #086 You're forgetting how brutal the Japanese were in China and how much America resented them for Pearl Harbor. Japan literally seemed like a nation of evil at the time, worthy of punishment. Furthermore, targeting civilians was simply the nature of the war that both the Axis and the Allies engaged in. I doubt China meant THAT much to an America that didnt really care about foreign affairs overall. Pearl harbor, sure we were mad about, but we had them beat just by making it to Japan at all. And even if that IS true, that we wished to punish them, we had surely already done that with the aforementioned firebombings. The nuke was unnecessarily brutal, which its inventors were sure to inform Truman of. Pearl Harbor created a national frenzy. The rape of Nanking was well known to the Allies. This isn't even mentioning the Bataan Death March. To the America at that time, the nuke was a fitting punishment for an evil nation. -- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metal_DK 01/17/12 9:06:00 PM #93: |
and yes they were. We were being a huge ass to Japan, as part of our overall scheme of waving our dick at the USSR. so you still think the only reason why we did this was to wave to the ussr. Thats a reason, but the only? Hell no -- Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 01/17/12 9:06:00 PM #94: |
This isn't exact so don't quote me on it, but there was some poll taken like five years AFTER the war and some 85% of the American population still thought dropping the nuke was absolutely unquestionably the right decision.
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 01/17/12 9:07:00 PM #95: |
In the grand scheme of things, it really wasn't much more brutal than a protracted ground war would have been versus the remains of the Japanese army, along with that aforementioned militia of old men and kids armed with government issued molotovs. Just brutality in a different way
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edwardsdv 01/17/12 9:08:00 PM #96: |
From: redrocket | #089 This assumes that the Soviet Union was bent on global domination, which is more farce than fact in reality. They were after SOMETHING that justified losing 27 million people. And they were run by people with rather loose morals and a willingness to do what needed to be done no matter the cost. Thats always been Russia. And if you want to say that, I'll let you. The bombings are only justified if you think that end is worth unleashing the nuke on a defeated nation. I just will think you are extraordinarily callous and value the benefits of the group over thhe freedom of the individual to live. A communist, to use SmartMuffin parlance. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dethfdddddh 01/17/12 9:09:00 PM #97: |
If we're blaming Truman for nuking Japan, then you also have to give him credit for rejecting MacArthur's plan to demolish China with nukes.
-- Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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red sox 777 01/17/12 9:09:00 PM #98: |
This isn't exact so don't quote me on it, but there was some poll taken like five years AFTER the war and some 85% of the American population still thought dropping the nuke was absolutely unquestionably the right decision.
You'd probably still get a large majority to agree with that today if you ran that poll again. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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redrocket 01/17/12 9:10:00 PM #99: |
edwardsdv posted...
From: redrocket | #089 I'm gonna go on record here and state that even if the only reason we dropped the bombs was to intimidate the Soviets, it was more than justified. The Soviet Union post WWII was a much bigger potential threat to the world than Hitler ever was. Someone had to keep them in check, and the rest of the world should be damn grateful that we stepped up to the plate. This assumes that the Soviet Union was bent on global domination, which is more farce than fact in reality. They were after SOMETHING that justified losing 27 million people. And they were run by people with rather loose morals and a willingness to do what needed to be done no matter the cost. Thats always been Russia. And if you want to say that, I'll let you. The bombings are only justified if you think that end is worth unleashing the nuke on a defeated nation. I just will think you are extraordinarily callous and value the benefits of the group over thhe freedom of the individual to live. A communist, to use SmartMuffin parlance. Call me whatever you want, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LordoftheMorons 01/17/12 9:11:00 PM #100: |
dethfdddddh posted...
To the America at that time, the nuke was a fitting punishment for an evil nation. Yeah those civilians were totally the ones doing those things -- http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2636/ivotedphoenixyi0.png No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga ... Copied to Clipboard!
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