Board 8 > Civilization V: Gods & Kings announced. Brace yourself.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sounds like it's almost time to get the Civ crew back together.

--
I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

excellence

Edit - Release date is Q2 2012. Hype.

"Tons of New Stuff. I know I just mentioned it, but I want to draw attention to just how many new things we've got here: 27 new units, 13 new buildings, 9 new wonders, and 9 new playable civilizations. Among the new civilizations are the Netherlands (William I, Prince of Orange), the Celts (Boudicca), and the Mayans (Pacal the Great)."

"Religion. That's right; quite possibly the most requested major addition to the game is coming in the Gods & Kings expansion. Using the new "Faith" resource, you'll be able to found your own religion and grow it from a simple Pantheon of the Gods to a world-spanning fully-customized religion."

"Reworked Combat System. The expansion has a reworked combat system along with an AI that places more emphasis on balanced army composition. Among the changes to the combat system is the addition of melee naval units, which will force you to really rethink the way you execute your naval assaults."

"Enhanced Diplomacy, with Espionage. In addition to being able to establish embassies with your rival civilizations, spies will now be an important part of how you conduct your foreign affairs. Surveilling foreign cities, stealing advanced techs, and garnering influence with city-states are some of the things you'll be able to do with this new powerful mechanic."

"New City-States. With religion being added to the game, it only made sense to introduce Religious city-states which will interact with your religion in special ways. In addition, Mercantile city-states will be attractive for those of you who love to grow your civilization's treasury. All city-states will use the greatly expanded quest system, making city-states more dynamic and diplomatic victories more challenging, while decreasing the importance of gold when dealing with city-states."

"New Scenarios. Three new scenarios will be coming in Civilization V: Gods & Kings. Experience the fall of Rome, explore the medieval era, and my personal favorite: a unique scenario in a Victorian science-fiction setting."

http://www.2kgames.com/blog/civilization-v-expansion-pack-announced

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Best crew. Worth it for this!

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Welp, there goes my summer.

--
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. - Zapp Brannigan

how much are they going to get out of me for this

--
boring and mundane signature congratulating SuperNiceDog
Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold

X_Dante_X posted...
how much are they going to get out of me for this

^

I would pay full price for an expansion that actually delivers on this.

because I love civ

and religion + 9 factions + tons of units and wonders = YES

--
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb35gGx0t1qailr4o1_500.gif
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=57N0YAEJ

29.99 according to this article

http://www.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/

--
SuperNiceDog did a SuperNiceJob

_Harmonica_ posted...
29.99 according to this article

http://www.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings/previews/gods-and-kings-brings-big-changes-to-civilization-v-6350514/

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

--
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb35gGx0t1qailr4o1_500.gif
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=57N0YAEJ

Damn, I would have payed 40 for this expansion based on its content.

--
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. - Zapp Brannigan

a+

still haven't bought some of the dlc. hmm


--
ICON:
I'm pretty serious about chocobos.

Awesome. Maybe by not having any 'official' religions, they can solve the problem Civ 4 had of all of the religions having to be the same to avoid offending anyone

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Oh look it's literally just readding stuff from Civ 4.

I'll wait for Complete.

--
SubDeity wants to vote for Calvin Coolidge. [Evil Republican]
Play Der Langrisser.

They're still using "official" religion names, but you can customize them however you want



--
SuperNiceDog did a SuperNiceJob

I love that screen. Bring this on -- real successor to the best game ever!

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Getting Civ V now

--
"Mr. Paris, I assume you've had a great deal of experience being rejected by women." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

god dammit

I REALLY need to get a new computer so I can play this

--
I'm "kind of a big deal".
http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png

SubDeity posted...
Oh look it's literally just readding stuff from Civ 4.

I'll wait for Complete.

Completely different systems with the same name. "Readding stuff from Civ 4". Sensibility abounds in this post.

Take for instance "religion". Religion in Civ 4 was just awful. I was pretty much "yeah, my gut says that's a good move for religion not being in Civ 5." In Civ 4 religion had so many stupid balance problems, a lot of them fundamental. Every religion was a carbon copy of each other (except for a small difference, which I'll address later), so much to the point that they let you choose which religion you wanted to found when you did if you wanted in one of the patches or expansions. As such, there was basically zero reason to follow any religion other than Buddhism/Hinduism and a bit less commonly Judaism unless you wanted to piss off everyone else (in which case, the other religions were all pretty much functionally identical).

The ONLY way the religions differed was that they spread naturally at different rates. The idea being, of course, that later religions would need a leg up to be viably spread versus those already entrenched. Of course, that didn't really matter because most spreading was intentional and in games where it mattered the first two or three religions basically became so entrenched because people would IMMEDIATELY flip their state religion to that because there was no cost for doing so.

Well, at least it was a good diplomatic tool when it did mattered? Except for the fact it was stupidly asymmetrical. The actual GAMEPLAY drawbacks were almost non-existant. A... minor disadvantage to attacking people with a state religion your people followed? It spreads a bit faster naturally if it's your state religion? Like, why is Isabella so pissed I don't follow her state religion? I'm not actively helping her spread it? Why is she indifferent if I have NO state religion then? Why doesn't she try to take the holy city? There's actual big gameplay incentives for that. Like, the Apostolic Palace was the ONLY reason I ever switched half way through for a non-diplo gameplay reason.

In short, religion basically became "oh look at what I can do to the stupid AI". It was just poor design.

The expansion's system looks like it just plain solves this BS, so that's good. Is religion still stong if you go for it out of the gate? Looks like it. Not only that, it's because there's actual GAMEPLAY reasons for that (get bonuses faster, get more choice in the bonuses you take). Can you still carve out a niche religion later, or even a MORE popular one? Looks like it, there seems to be a wide variety in choices you can make so that each religion is actually different (so the war-mongerers that get a religion later might want the more offensive options but the people that rushed religion went for builder style choices).

--
assert(!hotterThan(foo, "Hot Nymphomaniacal Lesbian Mind-Controlling Dominatrix Fairy Doctors with glasses"))

Here's an interview with the lead designer of the game from Kotaku.
Some choice quotes: http://m.kotaku.com/5885161/heres-how-civilization-v-gods--kings-will-reinvent-the-series

"Religion is being integrated in a whole new way that the series has not seen before," Beach told me when we spoke on the phone Tuesday. "We're looking at religions as a brand new way for you to customize the way you're playing your civilization, and sort of take advantage of your play-style, where you are in the game, what path to victory you're pursuing in that game."

"There are four categories of beliefs: founder beliefs, follower beliefs, enhancer beliefs, and pantheon beliefs. Each category comes with its own specific bonuses — one bonus, called "Goddess of the Hunt," gives you an extra food modifier. Another bonus, "Holy Order," allows you to buy missionaries to help spread your religion around the map."


"What's unique about the spies in Gods & Kings is that you can use them to crack open the brain inside your computerized opponents, revealing the AI's deep, dark secrets."

"If you have a spy lurking in the right place and in the right time, all of a sudden you'll get these deep dark secrets," Beach said. "The AI might be planning an attack on you 15 turns down the line."

"That's right: The AI is sophisticated (and nasty) enough to plan a betrayal 15 turns in advance. And you can use your spies to find this out. Your spies can also level up, boosting their information-hunting skills. Eventually, you'll not only be able to find out when the AI will betray you, you'll be able to uncover exactly which city it plans to invade."

"You can then use this information in the new diplomacy system. You can confront a computerized opponent about its future betrayal, or you can tell a third-party and ask them to get involved."

"You can also send your spies into city-states, rig elections, and try to build alliances, old-school style."

"Think about the Cold War era," Beach said. "The U.S. and Soviets fighting over third-world countries... It's a phenomenal new addition in terms of making the world feel alive."

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Getting pretty hyped about this. 2012 turning out not so bad after all.

--
I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

Yeah, this is sounding great. This new (?) designer seems to know what's up.

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

i am more than a little skeptical of the ai hype but we shall see

Phase posted...
blah blah blah

Actually, I was also referring to adding more Civs that we've seen before (perhaps someday they'll actually include 30 civs out of the box and go from there!), putting in espionage yet again, and other content patch aspects that just serve to remind me that Civ IV still has more of everything.

As for religion, it has the same problem that Civ V's civics do: It's all bonus-based and there's no sense of coherency to anything, and there's far less ability to change ideologies as civilizations historically have.

--
SubDeity wants to vote for Calvin Coolidge. [Evil Republican]
Play Der Langrisser.

i should check this game out now that i own it

though

should i wait for this expansion now?

--
XS2 is the only good Xenosaga game - Lady Ashe

I might have to get back into Civ 5 when this comes out. It sounds great.

--
Coincidence that a self-avowed Communist is so against democracy and traditional marriage? - SephG after misquoting me hilariously

HeroicGammaRay posted...
i am more than a little skeptical of the ai hype but we shall see

Understandable. I have some reservations about the AI, too, but I'm hoping it all works out as intended.

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Bring terraformers back

it's not good until you can punish opposing factions by SUBMERGING THEIR CONTINENT.

--
You're messing with me! You're messing with me, aren't you!?
You're making fun of me, aren't you!? Aren't you!? You definitely are! I'll murder you!

Oh god.

So expensive.

But so worth it.

--
Brawl is like ZSS' breasts. Well rounded for casual players
http://img.imgcake.com/1319527328883gifad.gif

SubDeity posted...
Actually, I was also referring to adding more Civs that we've seen before (perhaps someday they'll actually include 30 civs out of the box and go from there!), putting in espionage yet again, and other content patch aspects that just serve to remind me that Civ IV still has more of everything.

Really, most civs are only similar in name only. Like, if you tried to claim that Civ 4 England and Civ 5 England played in even remotely the same way I'd basically respond with "wut?". Also, if you have EVER tried to make 30 very distinct factions to play as in a game you'd know: it's freaking close to absolutely impossible to do that and still be even remotely balanced. Civ 4 had the bonus of a major balance element being fixed across all civs: your leader's traits were often as much or even more game defining than your actual civ. (which is elegant, but restricts the design space a lot) The espionage complaint is valid though espionage looks pretty damn different in the expansion too. But I personally never really "got" espionage in BTS, it always felt underpowered for what you had to put into it aside from the fog of war stuff.

As for religion, it has the same problem that Civ V's civics do: It's all bonus-based and there's no sense of coherency to anything, and there's far less ability to change ideologies as civilizations historically have.

Uh. Most nations have actually been really, really, really static until MAYBE the last 100 years. There's a reason in Magna Mundi, an EU3 mod that spans several hundred years of time and attempts to somewhat accurately simulate history, that changing a National Idea after the fact basically IMPLODES your country. Instances where policy has changed signifnicantly outside of the last 100 years or so have been extremely bloody affairs or following extremely bloody ones. If you're a simulationist, there should definitely NOT be a little button that lets you change your policy after a couple years of not doing much.

I find the cohesion in Civ V fine. Most of the good bonuses aside from the starter policies are pretty deep in or strongly synergise, which means you basically have to dump 2-4 points in a tree. Doubly so since they added a bunch of really strong tree finishers so that now there's strong incentive to fill out the rest of the tree even if those bonues aren't that great. Really, the only issue I have with policies is that order was completely broken by patches and needed to be redone.

--
assert(!hotterThan(foo, "Hot Nymphomaniacal Lesbian Mind-Controlling Dominatrix Fairy Doctors with glasses"))

Is there going to be a box? It'll be weird getting a Civ or Civ expansion without one. I know the Civ V box just had a Steam code, but still!

--
ICON:
the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops

Yeah, it'll be a retail release as well as Steam.

--
"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

While you're here phase.

Do you have any advice for playing Morgan he's really strong when he's alone but if there's someone on the continent I get completely screwed over even if I beeline for industrial automation :( (also being alone is like the lamest way to play the game) I want to play him competently on Librarian before I up it to thinker.

--
You're messing with me! You're messing with me, aren't you!?
You're making fun of me, aren't you!? Aren't you!? You definitely are! I'll murder you!

So there's a solid crew of Civ V people here? I've played Civilization since the first one came out, but I've never done MP. I might want to take my chances and see how that plays out.

Also, I've pretty much held off on paying for any of the DLC, and only bought the main game when there was a good sale. Is there any DLC that's particularly important? (Apparently I have Mongolia somehow, but that's it.)

ToukaOone posted...
While you're here phase.

Do you have any advice for playing Morgan he's really strong when he's alone but if there's someone on the continent I get completely screwed over even if I beeline for industrial automation :( (also being alone is like the lamest way to play the game) I want to play him competently on Librarian before I up it to thinker.

Morgan's just... weak early. There's no real way around it. If you're in a hostile environment, don't just beeline IA. Yes, it is insanely good for Morgan and the second you get there you've pretty much won. It's also a good way to die because you will get particle impacted faster than you can say "wtf does non-linear mathematics require absolutely nothing and rape me so terribly?"

You need lean, mean defensive troops to get there. Best way to do that is to hit the conquer focus and get high energy chemistry. 3 armor is hard to break early on and you're almost assured to get it if you have conquer focus since it builds off of applied physics and industrial base. If you're near Miriam/Santiago/Yang, I'd really strongly suggest going that direction. Get an explore tech or two first (shooting for formers, obviously), then immediately switching to conquer gives you a good chance at either doctrine loyalty or high energy chemistry.

If you're NOT near someone that's going to be super aggressive early try to beeline IA after some fundamental core stuff (formers, recycling tanks, secrets of the human brain).

--
assert(!hotterThan(foo, "Hot Nymphomaniacal Lesbian Mind-Controlling Dominatrix Fairy Doctors with glasses"))

Wow. Very interesting, indeed...

Can't wait. I like Civ V, but haven't played it much because I got bored more quickly than with Civ IV. Hopefully this refuels my passion for it.

--
Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09)
SuperNiceDog: Guru winner

Taggggg

--
Wind!
Falconnnnnnn PUNCH!

Really, most civs are only similar in name only. Like, if you tried to claim that Civ 4 England and Civ 5 England played in even remotely the same way I'd basically respond with "wut?".

I was referring only to the raw number, not how they play. There have always been more civs in Civilization than their have been significantly different playstyles, and balance has never been a hallmark of the series, so having lots of civs is just a matter of style, preferences, and variety. This is a game about history and more is better.

Also, if you have EVER tried to make 30 very distinct factions to play as in a game you'd know: it's freaking close to absolutely impossible to do that and still be even remotely balanced.

Civ has never been well-balanced and every game has had Civs that just suck. It's not a big deal because Civ is also a mostly single-player game.

Uh. Most nations have actually been really, really, really static until MAYBE the last 100 years.

Now this is just COMPLETELY untrue and obvious to anybody who has read history.

There's a reason in Magna Mundi, an EU3 mod that spans several hundred years of time and attempts to somewhat accurately simulate history, that changing a National Idea after the fact basically IMPLODES your country.

...I think you should try getting history from a place besides a video game mod. Just to grab an example from that game's time period, Spain actually transformed from the most intellectually open and multicultural society in Europe into one of its most narrowminded and race-conscious. Russia's feudal princes and petty republics were forged into a centralized imperial state with serfdom. Some societies have completely changed religions in their history with all the attendant social effects. Orthodox Greece and Islamic Egypt are quite different from pagan Greece and Christian Egypt. Then we have things like nations rejecting, embracing, and then re-rejecting slavery (something I find really bothersome in EU3 is that slavery automatically happens when in fact there were major debates about it).

Instances where policy has changed signifnicantly outside of the last 100 years or so have been extremely bloody affairs or following extremely bloody ones.

And yet they still happened quite a lot, and cutting them entirely out of a history-spanning game like Civilization is just preposterous.

If you're a simulationist, there should definitely NOT be a little button that lets you change your policy after a couple years of not doing much.

If you're a simulationist you shouldn't play Civ.

--
SubDeity wants to vote for Calvin Coolidge. [Evil Republican]
Play Der Langrisser.

whoa. that's pretty cool stuff. civ 5 goty was on sale earlier too so it's pretty entertaining at how many additions they've got that aren't in it, but whatever.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.