Board 8 > The Official Topic of Freedom and Liberty (Ron Paul 2012)

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SmartMuffin 04/07/12 9:44:00 PM #401:	I hadn't heard of the Wyoming case, but if the details are as you say, it would probably come down to whether the federal firearms regulations at question are themselves constitutional or not, as decided by a court. If it is deemed to be so, my guess is Wyoming is out of luck should the feds ever try to go in. Naturally, the issue at hand is the interstate commerce clause. The core of a firearms freedom act is to declare that any firearms that are produced, sold, and used entirely within the state are exempt from federal regulations because the federal government has no jurisdiction to interfere or regulate. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883603] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I hadn't heard of the Wyoming case, but if the details are as you say, it would probably come down to whether the federal firearms regulations at question are themselves constitutional or not, as decided by a court. If it is deemed to be so, my guess is Wyoming is out of luck should the feds ever try to go in.Naturally, the issue at hand is the interstate commerce clause. The core of a firearms freedom act is to declare that any firearms that are produced, sold, and used entirely within the state are exempt from federal regulations because the federal government has no jurisdiction to interfere or regulate. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/07/12 9:46:00 PM #402:	Ah, well that's definitely not attempted nullification then. Nullification would be: Wyoming says that the federal government cannot enforce laws on firearms moving through interstate commerce in Wyoming. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883604] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Ah, well that's definitely not attempted nullification then. Nullification would be: Wyoming says that the federal government cannot enforce laws on firearms moving through interstate commerce in Wyoming. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/07/12 9:49:00 PM #403:	If you don't see the fundamental difference, it's this: nullification (South Carolina 1830s style) is based on the principle that states are sovereign and superior to the US Constitution because they were the ones who voluntarily ratified it. Thus, they can secede from the Union at any time (not terribly bold a statement), and moreover, can cancel their agreement to any part of the Constitution or the federal government it creates at any time (this is the really bold statement, because it is essentially a line item veto on the Constitution). -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883605] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> If you don't see the fundamental difference, it's this: nullification (South Carolina 1830s style) is based on the principle that states are sovereign and superior to the US Constitution because they were the ones who voluntarily ratified it. Thus, they can secede from the Union at any time (not terribly bold a statement), and moreover, can cancel their agreement to any part of the Constitution or the federal government it creates at any time (this is the really bold statement, because it is essentially a line item veto on the Constitution). -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/07/12 9:51:00 PM #404:	Wyoming is making the much less bold statement of: the Constitution does not give Congress this power and we retain it as a state. Versus, the Constitution gives Congress this power and we override it by our power as a sovereign state. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883606] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Wyoming is making the much less bold statement of: the Constitution does not give Congress this power and we retain it as a state. Versus, the Constitution gives Congress this power and we override it by our power as a sovereign state. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/07/12 9:53:00 PM #405:	From: red sox 777 \| #403 If you don't see the fundamental difference, it's this: nullification (South Carolina 1830s style) is based on the principle that states are sovereign and superior to the US Constitution because they were the ones who voluntarily ratified it. Thus, they can secede from the Union at any time (not terribly bold a statement), and moreover, can cancel their agreement to any part of the Constitution or the federal government it creates at any time (this is the really bold statement, because it is essentially a line item veto on the Constitution). But you seem to be basing your analysis on your interpretation of the constitution. It seems obvious that the feds have no authority to regulate firearms that spend their entire existence inside Wyoming. But a left-leaning SC could quite easily rule otherwise. They could rule, in the face of all logic, that Wyoming's law is unconstitutional. Just like they ruled against all logic in the Dred Scott case and in Plessy vs Ferguson and everything else. Nullification is when the state says "We don't care what the feds say, they're wrong and we aren't going to cooperate." Now obviously there are numerous degrees of not cooperating. One degree is simply "we won't help you enforce this," another is "we will actively resist your attempts to enforce this," and another is "we and seven of our friends are going to secede and fight a war against you." But the principle is virtually the same regardless of the degree. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883607] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: red sox 777 \| #403If you don't see the fundamental difference, it's this: nullification (South Carolina 1830s style) is based on the principle that states are sovereign and superior to the US Constitution because they were the ones who voluntarily ratified it. Thus, they can secede from the Union at any time (not terribly bold a statement), and moreover, can cancel their agreement to any part of the Constitution or the federal government it creates at any time (this is the really bold statement, because it is essentially a line item veto on the Constitution).But you seem to be basing your analysis on your interpretation of the constitution. It seems obvious that the feds have no authority to regulate firearms that spend their entire existence inside Wyoming. But a left-leaning SC could quite easily rule otherwise. They could rule, in the face of all logic, that Wyoming's law is unconstitutional. Just like they ruled against all logic in the Dred Scott case and in Plessy vs Ferguson and everything else.Nullification is when the state says "We don't care what the feds say, they're wrong and we aren't going to cooperate." Now obviously there are numerous degrees of not cooperating. One degree is simply "we won't help you enforce this," another is "we will actively resist your attempts to enforce this," and another is "we and seven of our friends are going to secede and fight a war against you." But the principle is virtually the same regardless of the degree. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/07/12 10:00:00 PM #406:	No, I'm basing this off of South Carolina's position back in the 1830s. Their position was that they were superior to the Constitution. There was a tenable argument that secession was constitutional, but nullification as envisioned by SC back then IMO was clearly unconstitutional because it is inherently an attack on the Constitution, that reduces it to mere words on a paper with no force. By contrast, secession requires a state to abandon the whole Constitution if it will abandon any one thing. Perhaps Dred Scott and Plessy were bad decisions morally, but I'm not sure they were so horrible purely legally given the state of the law at those times. Certainly there were much better logical arguments supporting those decisions than a hypothetical decision that South Carolina-style nullification was constitutional (no such decisions happened of course). -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883608] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> No, I'm basing this off of South Carolina's position back in the 1830s. Their position was that they were superior to the Constitution.There was a tenable argument that secession was constitutional, but nullification as envisioned by SC back then IMO was clearly unconstitutional because it is inherently an attack on the Constitution, that reduces it to mere words on a paper with no force. By contrast, secession requires a state to abandon the whole Constitution if it will abandon any one thing.Perhaps Dred Scott and Plessy were bad decisions morally, but I'm not sure they were so horrible purely legally given the state of the law at those times. Certainly there were much better logical arguments supporting those decisions than a hypothetical decision that South Carolina-style nullification was constitutional (no such decisions happened of course). -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/08/12 3:08:00 PM #407:	Oh yeah, since I couldn't come up with a quick enough answer to the liberal's "low tax rates" argument, I just told him that Libertarians view taxation as theft and I don't care if the tax rate is at 1%; my money had better going to something of fair and equal value. He didn't provide a follow up. How was he supposed to reply? It's a well known fact that liberals think taxes are a good thing and you didn't say much more than "taxes suck." There's not much of a follow up to provide there. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883609] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Oh yeah, since I couldn't come up with a quick enough answer to the liberal's "low tax rates" argument, I just told him that Libertarians view taxation as theft and I don't care if the tax rate is at 1%; my money had better going to something of fair and equal value.He didn't provide a follow up.How was he supposed to reply? It's a well known fact that liberals think taxes are a good thing and you didn't say much more than "taxes suck." There's not much of a follow up to provide there. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/08/12 4:19:00 PM #408:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #407 How was he supposed to reply? It's a well known fact that liberals think taxes are a good thing and you didn't say much more than "taxes suck." There's not much of a follow up to provide there. He could explain why taxes are necessary. Which is pretty easy... government needs taxes to do things. The trick is explaining why the government needs to do things, why it's worth it to take money from people who can do things themselves with much greater efficiency, and let the government do it with less efficiency. -- _foolmo_ 'Most people at least try to say something funny. See foolmo's post as an example.' - The Real Truth <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883610] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #407How was he supposed to reply? It's a well known fact that liberals think taxes are a good thing and you didn't say much more than "taxes suck." There's not much of a follow up to provide there.He could explain why taxes are necessary.Which is pretty easy... government needs taxes to do things. The trick is explaining why the government needs to do things, why it's worth it to take money from people who can do things themselves with much greater efficiency, and let the government do it with less efficiency. -- _foolmo_'Most people at least try to say something funny. See foolmo's post as an example.' - The Real Truth </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/08/12 4:30:00 PM #409:	I don't think it's proven that people always do things with much greater efficiency than the government does. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883611] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I don't think it's proven that people always do things with much greater efficiency than the government does. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#410	Post #410 was unavailable or deleted.
foolm0ron 04/08/12 8:50:00 PM #411:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #409 I don't think it's proven that people always do things with much greater efficiency than the government does. Well you can go ahead and find historical evidence to argue that point. Just try not to ignore too much of the evidence that proves it right, though. -- _foolmo_ 'I love you so much' - SineNomine <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883613] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #409I don't think it's proven that people always do things with much greater efficiency than the government does.Well you can go ahead and find historical evidence to argue that point. Just try not to ignore too much of the evidence that proves it right, though. -- _foolmo_'I love you so much' - SineNomine </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/08/12 9:00:00 PM #412:	Or we can just start with the conceptual argument: The people use their money to try to benefit themselves in some way. They are always trying to get something with their money that they think is worth it. That is, they use money to gain a profit. Government doesn't. Government has no need for a profit, so they don't try to gain one. That's the problem with thinking of government as a business (see my posts in the 300s about why I think government is more of a machine than a business). So the key difference is that one group (the people) invest for profit, and the other (government) does not. It's not a stretch to assert that those who care about profit care about and pay attention to efficiency and waste of investments, right? So that's a fundamental reason people handle money better than government. Of course, this comparison is between profit and non-profit. Our current government can't even be called a non-profit, because even non-profits care about deficits. But yeah, possible rebuttals include arguing that the government has special properties that the people do not. For example, that the government knows better than the people (lol if you try to argue this), and thus its investments are superior, or something like that. -- _foolmo_ 'I love you so much' - SineNomine <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883614] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Or we can just start with the conceptual argument:The people use their money to try to benefit themselves in some way. They are always trying to get something with their money that they think is worth it. That is, they use money to gain a profit.Government doesn't. Government has no need for a profit, so they don't try to gain one. That's the problem with thinking of government as a business (see my posts in the 300s about why I think government is more of a machine than a business).So the key difference is that one group (the people) invest for profit, and the other (government) does not. It's not a stretch to assert that those who care about profit care about and pay attention to efficiency and waste of investments, right? So that's a fundamental reason people handle money better than government.Of course, this comparison is between profit and non-profit. Our current government can't even be called a non-profit, because even non-profits care about deficits.But yeah, possible rebuttals include arguing that the government has special properties that the people do not. For example, that the government knows better than the people (lol if you try to argue this), and thus its investments are superior, or something like that. -- _foolmo_'I love you so much' - SineNomine </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/08/12 9:53:00 PM #413:	Right. There is a logical reason that the private sector would outperform government. There is no logical reason to suggest that the opposite would ever happen. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883615] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Right. There is a logical reason that the private sector would outperform government. There is no logical reason to suggest that the opposite would ever happen. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NeoElfboy 04/08/12 10:35:00 PM #414:	Non-profit organisations do exist and manage their finances well enough. I'd agree that on average, they don't do it as well, though, and that's a good argument for defaulting to a private approach to most things. However there are certainly some examples of things where introducing a for-profit approach has not worked to the benefit of those social institutions, such as prisons and education. -- The RPG Duelling League: www.rpgdl.com An unparalleled source for RPG information and discussion <cite>NeoElfboy posted [p:883616] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Non-profit organisations do exist and manage their finances well enough. I'd agree that on average, they don't do it as well, though, and that's a good argument for defaulting to a private approach to most things. However there are certainly some examples of things where introducing a for-profit approach has not worked to the benefit of those social institutions, such as prisons and education. -- The RPG Duelling League: www.rpgdl.comAn unparalleled source for RPG information and discussion </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/08/12 10:57:00 PM #415:	http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/reawakening-liberty/2012/apr/7/what-would-it-take-ron-paul-endorse-romney/ -- _foolmo_ 'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883617] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/reawakening-liberty/2012/apr/7/what-would-it-take-ron-paul-endorse-romney/ -- _foolmo_'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/09/12 6:57:00 PM #416:	-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883618] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/09/12 8:54:00 PM #417:	http://theiowarepublican.com/2011/ron-paul%E2%80%99s-reagan-revisionism/ Man, I didn't even know about that letter by RP. It's amazing, and he wrote it 25 years ago? I knew he was consistent, but damn he really has been saying exactly the same stuff. I can't imagine how happy he must be now that people are actually really supporting him now, after decades of everyone largely ignoring him. <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883619] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://theiowarepublican.com/2011/ron-paul%E2%80%99s-reagan-revisionism/Man, I didn't even know about that letter by RP. It's amazing, and he wrote it 25 years ago? I knew he was consistent, but damn he really has been saying exactly the same stuff. I can't imagine how happy he must be now that people are actually really supporting him now, after decades of everyone largely ignoring him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Icehawk 04/09/12 9:01:00 PM #418:	Does it ever bother you muffin, how you seem to mostly resort to buzz words to make your points? people like you created the terms "pro life" and "pro choice" -- Check out my gaming blog.. OR DONT, SCREW YOU. http://shinybuttons.net/ <cite>Icehawk posted [p:883620] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Does it ever bother you muffin, how you seem to mostly resort to buzz words to make your points?people like you created the terms "pro life" and "pro choice" -- Check out my gaming blog.. OR DONT, SCREW YOU.http://shinybuttons.net/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/09/12 9:09:00 PM #419:	From: Icehawk \| #418 Does it ever bother you muffin, how you seem to mostly resort to buzz words to make your points? people like you created the terms "pro life" and "pro choice" You mean terms that are widely prevalent and understood by everyone? Oh no, I'd never want to do that! I'm dealing with a general audience here, the majority of which is literally learning about libertarian ideas for the first time from me. I can't just sit here and blab on and on about Austrian economics all day. Won't attract any attention and nobody will understand it. Sometimes you just gotta stand on a soap box and yell that everyone is Communist. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883621] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Icehawk \| #418Does it ever bother you muffin, how you seem to mostly resort to buzz words to make your points?people like you created the terms "pro life" and "pro choice"You mean terms that are widely prevalent and understood by everyone? Oh no, I'd never want to do that! I'm dealing with a general audience here, the majority of which is literally learning about libertarian ideas for the first time from me. I can't just sit here and blab on and on about Austrian economics all day. Won't attract any attention and nobody will understand it.Sometimes you just gotta stand on a soap box and yell that everyone is Communist. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Icehawk 04/09/12 10:03:00 PM #420:	What do Austrian economics have to do with anything? You are ducking the issue. The issue is, I LITERALLY can't take any of your posts seriously, because the vast majority just come across like a political ad of some sort. At times, you become a caricature of yourself with your endless buzz words, it's almost like you are preparing for some warningcrazy esque run at some stupid city council position. If you have to lower yourself to talk to people here, why even bother? If you are trying to proselytize, it clearly isn't working, if you are trying to have meaningful discussion, obviously you can't have it with people so far beneath you. -- Check out my gaming blog.. OR DONT, SCREW YOU. http://shinybuttons.net/ <cite>Icehawk posted [p:883622] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> What do Austrian economics have to do with anything? You are ducking the issue.The issue is, I LITERALLY can't take any of your posts seriously, because the vast majority just come across like a political ad of some sort. At times, you become a caricature of yourself with your endless buzz words, it's almost like you are preparing for some warningcrazy esque run at some stupid city council position. If you have to lower yourself to talk to people here, why even bother? If you are trying to proselytize, it clearly isn't working, if you are trying to have meaningful discussion, obviously you can't have it with people so far beneath you. -- Check out my gaming blog.. OR DONT, SCREW YOU.http://shinybuttons.net/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/09/12 10:11:00 PM #421:	I made a post before (prob in this topic or a previous in the series) about how genius the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are, because they are meant to be 2 opposite sides of a coin. That everyone in existence is either pro-life or pro-choice is a very common belief. But the genius is that it doesn't matter which of these you identify with, you are being pigeonholed into being pro-government. Both sides advocate the government controlling your personal liberties. They completely cut out the option of less government involvement. -- _foolmo_ 'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28 <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883623] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I made a post before (prob in this topic or a previous in the series) about how genius the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are, because they are meant to be 2 opposite sides of a coin. That everyone in existence is either pro-life or pro-choice is a very common belief. But the genius is that it doesn't matter which of these you identify with, you are being pigeonholed into being pro-government. Both sides advocate the government controlling your personal liberties. They completely cut out the option of less government involvement. -- _foolmo_'Oh please, if foolmo made that analogy you'd think it was picture perfect' - Biolizard28 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 04/09/12 10:15:00 PM #422:	*foolm0ron posted...* I made a post before (prob in this topic or a previous in the series) about how genius the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are, because they are meant to be 2 opposite sides of a coin. That everyone in existence is either pro-life or pro-choice is a very common belief. But the genius is that it doesn't matter which of these you identify with, you are being pigeonholed into being pro-government. Both sides advocate the government controlling your personal liberties. They completely cut out the option of less government involvement. Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch <cite>redrocket posted [p:883624] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> foolm0ron posted...I made a post before (prob in this topic or a previous in the series) about how genius the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are, because they are meant to be 2 opposite sides of a coin. That everyone in existence is either pro-life or pro-choice is a very common belief. But the genius is that it doesn't matter which of these you identify with, you are being pigeonholed into being pro-government. Both sides advocate the government controlling your personal liberties. They completely cut out the option of less government involvement.Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/09/12 10:18:00 PM #423:	From: redrocket \| #422 Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default. So RP is pro-choice? Think about this for a bit... These terms are a well-designed trap -- _foolmo_ 'I love you so much' - SineNomine <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883625] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: redrocket \| #422Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default.So RP is pro-choice? Think about this for a bit... These terms are a well-designed trap -- _foolmo_'I love you so much' - SineNomine </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/09/12 10:29:00 PM #424:	Sometimes you just gotta stand on a soap box and yell that everyone is Communist. I still don't understand why this is necessary. You admitted that your definition of Communist differs from "most people's" - make that "all people's", since you're literally the only person I know of who uses the term "Communist" the way you do. Why not use, you know, the actual definition? <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883626] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Sometimes you just gotta stand on a soap box and yell that everyone is Communist.I still don't understand why this is necessary. You admitted that your definition of Communist differs from "most people's" - make that "all people's", since you're literally the only person I know of who uses the term "Communist" the way you do. Why not use, you know, the actual definition? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TomNook7 04/10/12 4:36:00 AM #425:	*SmartMuffin posted...* XD -- Genesis does what Nintendon't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 <cite>TomNook7 posted [p:883627] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> SmartMuffin posted...XD -- Genesis does what Nintendon'thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/10/12 6:46:00 AM #426:	From: Icehawk \| #420 What do Austrian economics have to do with anything? You are ducking the issue. The issue is, I LITERALLY can't take any of your posts seriously, because the vast majority just come across like a political ad of some sort. At times, you become a caricature of yourself with your endless buzz words, it's almost like you are preparing for some warningcrazy esque run at some stupid city council position. If you have to lower yourself to talk to people here, why even bother? If you are trying to proselytize, it clearly isn't working, if you are trying to have meaningful discussion, obviously you can't have it with people so far beneath you. 1. Austrian Economics explains how the private sector is more efficient than the public sector by default, and also how the state is inherently immoral. Nearly ALL of the relevant issues of the day have an "Austrian solution" which is nearly always the same as a libertarian solution. 2. The reason political ads are the way they are, and that I occasionally mimick them sometimes, is because they WORK. It's like how everyone complains about the local news running ads like "What household product will KILL YOUR CHILDREN? Find out tonight at 11!" The reason they do that is because if they don't, nobody will ever watch them. As much as everyone claims to want calm and reasonable discussion about the issues, nobody clicks on those topics. People click on topics like "single moms are irresponsible." 3. You say it clearly isn't working. I disagree. I believe I have more support and like-minded individuals here now than ever before. Maybe that's a coincidence and it has nothing to do with me. Maybe not. I've had a few people PM me and say they appreciate the work I've been doing. Board 8 is basically the only place I advertise my blog, and when I put up new posts, they get hits, even when I include the link to the original story. 4. I'm pretty sure Ulti could single-handedly ruin any hope I'd ever have at running for anything. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883628] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Icehawk \| #420What do Austrian economics have to do with anything? You are ducking the issue.The issue is, I LITERALLY can't take any of your posts seriously, because the vast majority just come across like a political ad of some sort. At times, you become a caricature of yourself with your endless buzz words, it's almost like you are preparing for some warningcrazy esque run at some stupid city council position. If you have to lower yourself to talk to people here, why even bother? If you are trying to proselytize, it clearly isn't working, if you are trying to have meaningful discussion, obviously you can't have it with people so far beneath you.1. Austrian Economics explains how the private sector is more efficient than the public sector by default, and also how the state is inherently immoral. Nearly ALL of the relevant issues of the day have an "Austrian solution" which is nearly always the same as a libertarian solution.2. The reason political ads are the way they are, and that I occasionally mimick them sometimes, is because they WORK. It's like how everyone complains about the local news running ads like "What household product will KILL YOUR CHILDREN? Find out tonight at 11!" The reason they do that is because if they don't, nobody will ever watch them. As much as everyone claims to want calm and reasonable discussion about the issues, nobody clicks on those topics. People click on topics like "single moms are irresponsible."3. You say it clearly isn't working. I disagree. I believe I have more support and like-minded individuals here now than ever before. Maybe that's a coincidence and it has nothing to do with me. Maybe not. I've had a few people PM me and say they appreciate the work I've been doing. Board 8 is basically the only place I advertise my blog, and when I put up new posts, they get hits, even when I include the link to the original story.4. I'm pretty sure Ulti could single-handedly ruin any hope I'd ever have at running for anything. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/10/12 6:47:00 AM #427:	Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default. Not really. Because the pro-choice people believe everyone should have to pay for it. My body. My choice. Your money. Remember? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883629] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default.Not really. Because the pro-choice people believe everyone should have to pay for it. My body. My choice. Your money. Remember? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/10/12 12:21:00 PM #428:	Welp, Santorum is officially out of the race. I'm trying to figure out what this means for the RP campaign. On one hand, it will be harder to get a brokered convention when there is less competition, unless most Santorum people go to RP (which isn't unlikely). But now I think it will be harder for the media so ignore RP. They can't keep saying "the 3 remaining candidates" anymore. I guess they could just say "the two remaining," but somehow I feel like that won't work so well. <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883630] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Welp, Santorum is officially out of the race.I'm trying to figure out what this means for the RP campaign. On one hand, it will be harder to get a brokered convention when there is less competition, unless most Santorum people go to RP (which isn't unlikely). But now I think it will be harder for the media so ignore RP. They can't keep saying "the 3 remaining candidates" anymore. I guess they could just say "the two remaining," but somehow I feel like that won't work so well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 04/10/12 1:34:00 PM #429:	Not really. Because the pro-choice people believe everyone should have to pay for it. Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position? -- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:883631] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Not really. Because the pro-choice people believe everyone should have to pay for it.Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position? -- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/10/12 4:59:00 PM #430:	Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position? Yes, but nearly 99% of the people in favor of that position also want it to be absolutely free on-demand. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883632] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position?Yes, but nearly 99% of the people in favor of that position also want it to be absolutely free on-demand. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 04/10/12 5:03:00 PM #431:	*foolm0ron posted...* From: redrocket \| #422 Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default. So RP is pro-choice? Think about this for a bit... These terms are a well-designed trap Personally, RP is pro-life. Politically, he is pro-choice(at the federal level), even though he would never actually say that himself. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch <cite>redrocket posted [p:883633] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> foolm0ron posted...From: redrocket \| #422Cutting out government involvement in this issue is a Pro-Choice stance by default.So RP is pro-choice? Think about this for a bit... These terms are a well-designed trapPersonally, RP is pro-life.Politically, he is pro-choice(at the federal level), even though he would never actually say that himself. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/10/12 5:10:00 PM #432:	From: MalcolmMasher \| #429 Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position? From: redrocket \| #431 Personally, RP is pro-life. Politically, he is pro-choice(at the federal level), even though he would never actually say that himself. See, you guys are thinking about it too hard. You're grasping at straws for definitions that work for limited government positions. The fact is that these terms simply cannot reflect a limited government position. You always need to add some qualifier to it or further explain it, which really weakens your position, or makes it very easy to simplify your position and misconstrue it. Whether it's by design or not (I believe it is), you have to admit it's very difficult to clearly articulate a limited government position using these terms. That's why RP just says "I am against abortions, but I think the decision should be between a doctor and his patient and no one else." <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883634] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: MalcolmMasher \| #429Some of them do, I'm sure. But wouldn't you agree that a simple "the government should make no law prohibiting abortion" is a pro-choice position?From: redrocket \| #431Personally, RP is pro-life.Politically, he is pro-choice(at the federal level), even though he would never actually say that himself.See, you guys are thinking about it too hard. You're grasping at straws for definitions that work for limited government positions. The fact is that these terms simply cannot reflect a limited government position. You always need to add some qualifier to it or further explain it, which really weakens your position, or makes it very easy to simplify your position and misconstrue it. Whether it's by design or not (I believe it is), you have to admit it's very difficult to clearly articulate a limited government position using these terms. That's why RP just says "I am against abortions, but I think the decision should be between a doctor and his patient and no one else." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TomNook7 04/10/12 5:12:00 PM #433:	Santorum out of the race and 155 Texan delegates coming up soon... its not too late for a miracle -- Genesis does what Nintendon't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 <cite>TomNook7 posted [p:883635] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Santorum out of the race and 155 Texan delegates coming up soon...its not too late for a miracle -- Genesis does what Nintendon'thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 04/10/12 5:14:00 PM #434:	That's why RP just says "I am against abortions, but I think the decision should be between a doctor and his patient and no one else." This is a pro-choice position. I'm not even sure what you are arguing any more. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch <cite>redrocket posted [p:883636] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> That's why RP just says "I am against abortions, but I think the decision should be between a doctor and his patient and no one else."This is a pro-choice position. I'm not even sure what you are arguing any more. -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:31:00 PM #435:	Yes, but nearly 99% of the people in favor of that position also want it to be absolutely free on-demand. I daresay most people don't care very much about the payment issue, at least not in relation to the legality issue. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883637] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Yes, but nearly 99% of the people in favor of that position also want it to be absolutely free on-demand.I daresay most people don't care very much about the payment issue, at least not in relation to the legality issue. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:33:00 PM #436:	On another note, the yield on the 10-year US treasuries is back under 2%. Really, people? You'll lend money to the US government at 2% interest, locking in your money for 10 years? At 2%? -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883638] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> On another note, the yield on the 10-year US treasuries is back under 2%. Really, people? You'll lend money to the US government at 2% interest, locking in your money for 10 years? At 2%? -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 04/10/12 5:34:00 PM #437:	*red sox 777 posted...* On another note, the yield on the 10-year US treasuries is back under 2%. Really, people? You'll lend money to the US government at 2% interest, locking in your money for 10 years? At 2%? dat confidence in the US government -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch <cite>redrocket posted [p:883639] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> red sox 777 posted...On another note, the yield on the 10-year US treasuries is back under 2%. Really, people? You'll lend money to the US government at 2% interest, locking in your money for 10 years? At 2%?dat confidence in the US government -- From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:42:00 PM #438:	http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/titanoboa-slithered-planet/story?id=16046157#.T4TSe9U2H4s If I were Smartmuffin, I would use this article to make a topic titled, "Global Warming 'Scientists' Now Threatening Us With Giant Snakes." -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883640] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/titanoboa-slithered-planet/story?id=16046157#.T4TSe9U2H4sIf I were Smartmuffin, I would use this article to make a topic titled, "Global Warming 'Scientists' Now Threatening Us With Giant Snakes." -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/10/12 5:43:00 PM #439:	I daresay most people don't care very much about the payment issue, at least not in relation to the legality issue. I daresay you're wrong. The Democrats consider the position of "you should have to pay for your own birth control" to be a "war on women" -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883641] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I daresay most people don't care very much about the payment issue, at least not in relation to the legality issue.I daresay you're wrong. The Democrats consider the position of "you should have to pay for your own birth control" to be a "war on women" -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:44:00 PM #440:	Nah, only the extreme left cares about that. More people on the right care about that, because they don't want to support murder, but it still isn't that many people. Not everything is about payment. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883642] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Nah, only the extreme left cares about that. More people on the right care about that, because they don't want to support murder, but it still isn't that many people.Not everything is about payment. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/10/12 5:47:00 PM #441:	Not everything is about payment. Everything being about money is literally the cornerstone of my political beliefs! -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883643] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Not everything is about payment.Everything being about money is literally the cornerstone of my political beliefs! -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:50:00 PM #442:	Also, I still think "War on Sex" would be a great campaign slogan for Santorum. Maybe next time if Romney loses. Here's a hypothetical platform: 1. Extramarital sex is banned. 2. Any man who has sex with a woman is obligated to take her as his wife if she requests so within a year. #1 will generally not be prosecuted unless a man has multiple women demand marriage under #2, and cannot meet his obligations. 3. Pornography of all sorts is banned. 4. Schools will teach abstinence until marriage. 5. Birth control of all forms is banned, except for methods explicitly approved by the Vatican. 6. Doctors are banned from advising patients on birth control, except for methods explicitly approved by the Vatican. 7. Promiscuous clothing in public is banned. 8. No-fault divorce is banned. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883644] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Also, I still think "War on Sex" would be a great campaign slogan for Santorum. Maybe next time if Romney loses. Here's a hypothetical platform:1. Extramarital sex is banned.2. Any man who has sex with a woman is obligated to take her as his wife if she requests so within a year. #1 will generally not be prosecuted unless a man has multiple women demand marriage under #2, and cannot meet his obligations.3. Pornography of all sorts is banned.4. Schools will teach abstinence until marriage.5. Birth control of all forms is banned, except for methods explicitly approved by the Vatican.6. Doctors are banned from advising patients on birth control, except for methods explicitly approved by the Vatican.7. Promiscuous clothing in public is banned.8. No-fault divorce is banned. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/10/12 5:52:00 PM #443:	Everything being about money is literally the cornerstone of my political beliefs! Well it's not mine. All the money that is spent on birth control is like loose change compared to bigger things like financials. Now, if we banned abortion, how much would individuals be willing to pay to get an exemption for themselves? Now that could be a significant amount of money. And that's why the legality of abortion is a much bigger issue than the government payment issue. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883645] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Everything being about money is literally the cornerstone of my political beliefs!Well it's not mine. All the money that is spent on birth control is like loose change compared to bigger things like financials.Now, if we banned abortion, how much would individuals be willing to pay to get an exemption for themselves? Now that could be a significant amount of money. And that's why the legality of abortion is a much bigger issue than the government payment issue. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/10/12 7:07:00 PM #444:	From: red sox 777 \| #442 Also, I still think "War on Sex" would be a great campaign slogan for Santorum. "Do you believe love can bloom on a battlefield?" <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883646] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: red sox 777 \| #442Also, I still think "War on Sex" would be a great campaign slogan for Santorum."Do you believe love can bloom on a battlefield?" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/11/12 6:31:00 AM #445:	http://glennbeck.shop.musictoday.com/Product.aspx?cp=29940&pc=BXCT081 I feel like I should get royalties for this. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883647] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://glennbeck.shop.musictoday.com/Product.aspx?cp=29940&pc=BXCT081I feel like I should get royalties for this. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KingButz 04/11/12 9:07:00 AM #446:	From: foolm0ron \| #428 I guess they could just say "the two remaining," but somehow I feel like that won't work so well. https://twitter.com/#!/newtgingrich/status/189806445699670017 >_> -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/bokbokbokpngur.png Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember. <cite>KingButz posted [p:883648] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: foolm0ron \| #428I guess they could just say "the two remaining," but somehow I feel like that won't work so well.https://twitter.com/#!/newtgingrich/status/189806445699670017>_> -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/bokbokbokpngur.pngOk everyone this is Bartz so just remember. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/12/12 10:41:00 AM #447:	http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/yellen20120411a.htm One of the Fed members says we haven't had enough stimulus since 2009. QE3? Maybe that's why the market is up a lot today- Wall Street seems to be unabashedly clamoring for QE3 now. Less government intervention? Pft, that's so 2007. Now they just want to drink from the Federal Reserve spigot. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883649] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/yellen20120411a.htmOne of the Fed members says we haven't had enough stimulus since 2009. QE3? Maybe that's why the market is up a lot today- Wall Street seems to be unabashedly clamoring for QE3 now. Less government intervention? Pft, that's so 2007. Now they just want to drink from the Federal Reserve spigot. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TomNook7 04/13/12 4:43:00 AM #448:	literally wish everybody in the country would just shut up and accept austrian economics -- Genesis does what Nintendon't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 <cite>TomNook7 posted [p:883650] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> literally wish everybody in the country would just shut up and accept austrian economics -- Genesis does what Nintendon'thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/13/12 8:16:00 AM #449:	Have you studied economics? (Well, given your statement, I highly doubt it.) -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883651] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Have you studied economics? (Well, given your statement, I highly doubt it.) -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/13/12 4:46:00 PM #450:	From: KingButz \| #446 https://twitter.com/#!/newtgingrich/status/189806445699670017 >_> Man, old people using twitter So weird -- _foolmo_ 'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883652] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: KingButz \| #446https://twitter.com/#!/newtgingrich/status/189806445699670017>_>Man, old people using twitterSo weird -- _foolmo_'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > The Official Topic of Freedom and Liberty (Ron Paul 2012)